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9:00 PM
@LeeWoofenden I really don't understand the American notion that the government is something foreign, separate from society, preying on it. Government is us. It's how we organise ourselves. That is all.
@Nathaniel Should you have to pass a state employee's personal religious test before they'll serve you?
9:15 PM
@TRiG I'm not arguing one way or another; just saying that it's a natural consequence of the ruling. Just like bakers won't be able to refuse to bake a same-sex marriage cake, even more so will a "state employee" (minister) be unable to discriminate. It will be interesting to see the effects... we may have many Christians who currently abhor unmarried couples "living together" having to reconsider their position with respect to state marriage.
@AJHenderson so the minister has no recourse if a same-sex couple wants him to marry them? There must be some process by which he becomes able to perform any marriage in the first place. Otherwise, any random person, who has never married anyone, could be sued by a same-sex couple for not performing their wedding, right?
@Nathaniel maybe, but there is also a categorical difference there between creating something neutral that happens to be used for something they disagree with. If the same sex couple asked for a cake for someone's birthday party, they wouldn't object. It doesn't really make sense to deny service because of what someone is going to do AFTER your service is provided
@Nathaniel I don't know, I was just commenting that some states don't allow you to call something a marriage if you don't go through the legal process. We couldn't get a marriage without getting a state license, which bothered me a lot
9:57 PM
10:32 PM
@fredsbend Tell that to a gay or lesbian person whose lifelong partner is dying, but who is barred from hospital visits or any decisions related to said partner because the relationship is not legally recognized, and the family of said partner does not recognize the relationship.
2
@Nathaniel I happen to believe that the connection between church marriages and state marriages should be legally severed, such that they are two different things. Those who want a spiritual marriage get married by the church. Those who want a legal marriage get married by the state. Those who want both do both.
Much of the heat on the issue of same-sex marriage arises because of the current unconstitutional (in my view) intrusion of the state into church affairs.
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The Upper Room
General discussion for Christianity.SE, pseudo-meta support, a...