@El'endiaStarman I played the game, but I fail to see the reference.

So apparently there's a woman called Amy who thinks about religion and religious people in almost exactly the same way I do. Which is kinda cool.

@TRiG I thought this part " I get it, but I can’t relate anymore. And I don’t want to. I struggled, I worked hard to rid myself of that connective ability because I came to realize it was bad for me. I think it’s bad for most people." was very interesting

I of course have a very different perspective, but I can also relate to many of her frustrations

not the least of which is those who pervert religion to their own political gains and desires

my counter argument would be that there is a reason that connection was so hard to rid herself of and a reason it still persists and that arguing that because some people are bad and will use good things for bad reasons doesn't mean there aren't good things. Those who crave power, pursue it and use it to speak the loudest

that's always been the way the world works, religion or not

I'm sure most communists in the USSR were reasonable people, trying to get by who didn't mind capitalists if they got to know them

similarly, people like turning their brains off and not thinking for themselves regardless of religion or not as well

@AJHenderson Yes. In my case, I'm not entirely sure that "connective ability" was ever there to start with.

I know I did believe, but I find it very hard to remember what that felt like. I'm pretty sure I never experienced the sense of "connection with God" that some people apparently do.

@TRiG I think it largely depends on how early on someone is exposed to how broken the world is

and I do think that many people do think they feel things when they don't (not that I don't think it is possible to do so, just that people who go looking for something will find it)

or convince themselves that they have. That goes for pretty much anything, again not just religion

people are really really good at rationalizing

@AJHenderson Oh, yes. That's true too.

for me, that "connective ability" that I believe is more the part that tells me kind of intrinsically that there has to be some purpose

it's more of a general thing

Other people have talked about how samey many conversion stories are because, while the tellers are not lying, as such, they are fitting their experiences into a standard narrative pattern that is expected of them by the culture in which the telling of the story occurs.

what I would say is what is being referenced with the "written on their hearts" claims in the Bible

@TRiG yeah, my "conversion story" is that I grew up in a Christian home, it made sense to me, I believed from an early stage and at some point it became real to me, but I couldn't even tell you when

I wasn't in to the whole "this time it's real thing" as far as I was concerned, it was real the first time at 4 even if I didn't fully understand it at the time and I grew in to it as my understanding improved

but there is a huge impact of cultural pressure

heck, I can tell you the recipe for an alter call

if you just want to get people emotional and "feeling it"

but they are never effective long term

we actually learned that over time with a Christian youth conference that I work with. For a while we did them the typical way and then we started figuring out why and how they "worked" and why the long term results weren't what we were hoping for, so we stopped doing a lot of the typical things

sure fewer people come forward, but those who do tend to be more serious about it and have longer term impact

@AJHenderson Altar calls were not part of the culture I grew up with, either in my own religion or the surrounding ones, but yes, I get your point.

(that also isn't to say that it isn't good to get a group emotional at times as some stuff is hard to deal with if you aren't emotional, but asking for decissions while emotional and driven by emotion isn't a good idea if you want real reactions)

emotions help bring stuff to the surface that needs to be dealt with

but reasoning through it and coming to understand how you internalize those issues rationally is what actually forms lasting views

@TRiG oh yeah, I always forget what your background actually is

@AJHenderson I spend a lot of time online, and thereby consume a lot of American media. I probably know more about US church culture than Irish at this stage.

Well, "know".

@TRiG yeah, I "know" what you mean ;)