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12:07 AM
It looks like jokl2 is a dupe user of jokl, and I suspect both are dupes of the Troth user
 
 
1 hour later…
1:26 AM
@dancek persevere :)
 
 
1 hour later…
2:46 AM
Well, both jokl's have been merged. Thanks for keeping the mods posted of any potential Troth dupes. :)
 
No problem... that's what I'm here for (to earn Citizen Patrol badges) :)
 
@Flimzy :)
 
So what happens after a merge? will the 'jokl' login still work for the user, but give him the Troth account?
Or does the 'jokl' login disappear?
 
Honestly, I don't know, but I would say that it disappears. The account is gone and Troth makes new ones.
 
I guess I'll just have to get myself suspended, then circumvent the suspension to find out!
 
3:09 AM
@Flimzy LOL. Do you want me to suspend you? I can suspend you for a day...
;)
 
hehe
acutally, you could just merge 'Robert DIAMOND' wtih my account
and I could try logging in with that account again :)
 
Oooo...good point.
@Flimzy: I think that's an unregistered user...
Or deleted already. :P
 
Hrm, maybe
 
shrug
sadness
 
I think I'll go sit in the corner and sulk now
... or work on packing for my trip tomorrow
 
@Flimzy Where ya going?
 
Mexico City
 
What for?
 
A few reasons...
the reason I'm going now is that cake will be in concert on Wednesday.
I've been wanting to go for a while, and been trying to organize a road trip with friends, but nobody can ever go, so I finally decided to go alone.
The other reason is... "practice"
I have this idea of doing a months-long bus trip through South America, maybe next year... But I want to get some practice traveling alone without a car in Mexico first.
So I'll be there a week... see Cake perform... work during the day... and at night and weekend, I'll do sight seeing.
 
3:31 AM
@Flimzy But the cake is a lie! According to Rattmann anyway. :P
 
hehe
I hope they at least let me take my weighted companion cube on the aircraft...
 
@Flimzy I dunno. That thing is rather large.
 
Yeah, and I have a 10kg limit with this ticket
which I realized today was a stupid mistake on my part
My laptop + camera + empty bag weigh 9.6kg
so my options are to pay $400 pesos to upgrade, or spend the week naked in Mexico City
 
@Flimzy LOL.
 
4:09 AM
They say it's cold in Mexico City now, and rainy... so I probably shouldn't go naked
 
@Flimzy Yeah, you probably shouldn't. :P
On the other hand, is your return trip ticket 10kg too?
By the way, that's a really heavy laptop/camera.
 
No... the return trip is on another airline with a 25kg limit
I have a Canon T3i DSLR, with 4 lenses, battery pack, and external flash
and I'd also like to take my tripod along... if I can cram it in somehow
which reminds me, I should go get it out of the car, so I can pack it!
 
@Flimzy In that case, you could just buy clothes there. :P
 
hehe
that's a thought
can I buy clothes for a week for less than $400 pesos? (about US$28 right now)
 
@Flimzy Hmm. You could if you're willing to re-wear stuff.
 
4:15 AM
I'd be willing if I have it washed
and laundry service is probably fairly inexpensive here
plus, I'd come back with new clothes to wear, that's alway a bonus...
although not so much for me as for a woman
 
hehehehe
 
5:07 AM
Why do I get the feeling that oscar124 is another dupe user?
 
@Flimzy He is.
 
sigh
 
In addition to writing style, I've been looking at IP addresses and many of them are related to "tor" (i.e. have "tor" in the DNS name).
 
ha
 
That's twelve total sockpuppets so far, of which three have been destroyed and nine merged. The destroyed ones are the very first ones...
 
5:10 AM
What happens if it continues? (Not that I suspect it does often) Can an IP range be banned?
 
@Flimzy We (the mods) just keep merging the accounts. There are 19 total IP addresses recorded so far, and they come from a variety of places, so we can't exactly ban him that way.
 
But you could redirect all of those requests to a C.SE clone site, where he can spam all day long, and nobody will care!!!
Muwahahahaha
Maybe I'll go start an Area51 proposal for "Clones.SE" for this purpose...
 
@Flimzy That'd be awesome. The only problem is figuring out where the next one is going to come from...
 
Well...
the thing is, you can tie those accounts to it.
So then it doesn't need to be IP-based
but as soon as they log in, they get redirected,w ithout realizing it
;)
 
@Flimzy But how do we know that a new, unregistered user is them?
 
5:15 AM
We wouldn't... but if we don't ban their primary account, they won't have (as much) motivation to create dummy accounts
 
Ahhhh...good point... :P
That is, until they figure out what's going on and come after the real site. :P
 
right :)
If we keep the clone site in a one-way sync, we might be able to keep the deception up for quite a while
 
Hehehe... ;P
Hmmm...I would kinda like to see Troth right now...with a profanity filter, of course. :P
Oh, how delicious it would be to see his face as each of his sockpuppets get merged one by one... :P
 
hehe
well, you know his ip(s)....
run a portscan... maybe he has some remotely exploitable vulnerability...
maybe you can hack into his webcam!
It works in the movies...
 
@Flimzy LOL. That's true...unfortunately... :P
 
5:30 AM
When an account is destroyed, rather than merged, what happens to its posts?
Or does that only happen when there are no posts?
 
@Flimzy I think they disappear entirely.
 
5:44 AM
So this character is known for trolling other Christian forums, too?
 
@Flimzy Yes. There was actually a little discussion amongst mods about this yesterday and he is known for trolling (and not hiding it) elsewhere.
Unfortunately, I need to go to bed.
Hopefully Caleb will be able to take care of new dupes I'm sure are coming...
G'night @Flimzy! :)
 
goodnight
 
 
6 hours later…
11:55 AM
Hey guys, what are the odds 46 is also troth?
 
12:11 PM
I'd like to say high - but actually I reckon not. Unfortunately there are quite a lot of people like that around!
 
@waggers What is your reason to think not?
 
@caleb Pure guesswork. It might well be him
@caleb As a moderator do you have any way of checking users' IP addresses?
 
@Waggers we do, but unfortunately Mr. Troth has been using proxies
there is a pattern and this one seems to fit it...
 
Actually scrap what I said earlier - there's a good chance it's him. While there are probably plenty of other people out there that would act in a similar way, the site isn't that popular yet
 
That's roughly my reasoning too, along with the close pattern match, including with a lot of content we've deleted already.
 
12:25 PM
Does SE have rules about using multiple accounts? I'm guessing not much can be done without fairly robust evidence though
 
@Waggers its allowed, but not to escape a suspension
or cross vote
 
 
2 hours later…
2:34 PM
Wow. There seems to be a vacuum of questions. I post two questions and they're both answered very quickly. We need some more questions.
 
2:45 PM
@Richard yeah we do
 
I try to ask questions, but it seems that I keep coming up with duplicates. (2 out of the last six. 4 out of the last 15.)
 
@Richard yeah, I haven't thought of a good one in weeks...
 
3:09 PM
I've got some good questions, but they'll all take time to write carefully. In current form, they're flamebait.
 
Have I asked too many questions in one go / is this general reference? (Hopefully neither)
0
Q: What is an apostle?

WaggersOften the apostles are referred to as "the twelve apostles" - the twelve disciples called by name by Jesus. But Paul called himself, and Barnabus, apostles. Were Paul and Barnabus really apostles? Are there apostles around today?

 
@Waggers Oh, I think all those can easily be addressed in a single answer. They possibly should be split up, but I'd leave it there for a while and see what types of comments you get to determine if the community wants it split up.
Except maybe the last question: Are there apostles around today?
That has big implications and there are some branches that believe that they are still around.
 
Hmm, perhaps it should have been one of those "which churches believe xxx and which believe yyy" questions
 
@Waggers I will say I hate those :)
 
I'm not really keen on those though
 
3:15 PM
That would be a list question... not ideal for this format.
 
Altogether now :)
It does feel a bit odd asking a question that I feel I know the answer to
Actually, one thing that I've realised since Christianity.SE opened is just how good some of the stuff on Wikipedia is
(and I'm saying that as a Wikipedia admin!)
 
@Waggers Yeah, it's nice since it's pretty objective.
Yeah, I knew this answer would be pretty controversial.
+2/-1 so far...
 
Feature request (just for that answer): an abstain button
 
@Richard lol not a huge fan of current Israel (I'm Amil...so that probably explains a lot)...but yeah that was certainly an incredibly victory...
 
@Waggers That would be really nice, actually. "Remove this from my sight"
 
3:31 PM
I've read that answer about four times now and I can't fault it.
Here comes an upvote
 
Hehe. :) thanks.
 
if I wasn't currently refraining from upvoting any answers I'd probably give it one too as its pretty reasonable
 
I originally was going to post a list of the Six Day War and the War for Independence, but I saw that one and I was like "Wow."
 
I guess you could question whether modern Israel = the Hebrews of the Bible, but that's not a debate I feel qualified to take part in
 
@waxeagle Aah, shooting for the gold?
 
3:33 PM
@Richard por su puesto
@Waggers I can't see them having much of a place in covenantal theology (it just wouldn't make much sense), but I can see where they would come in from other perspectives and I know a lot of American Christians believe that the end times will be triggered by actions in the middle east...
 
Why can't I flag a comment I've upvoted? That's annoying.
 
@Flimzy same here, if you want comments cleared just flag another comment in the series...
although I can't flag comments here anymore..they just get nuked
 
I can't.
There are 3 comments
one is mine (which I can't flag)
and the other two I upvoted!
:)
I guess I could flag my own question
Done... I hope that's not an abuse of question flagging
 
3:49 PM
done, and dismissed as helpful :)
 
okay, thanks
heh :)
 
@Flimzy nope, if you see the need for them to be scrubbed then bringing them to our attention is good. the only real issue is that it shows up as a flag on your profile :)
 
I feel like a flag (especially on a question) is a "big hammer"
And comments are little things...
 
@Flimzy yeah sort of
 
It also seems apparent that Jeff Atwood thinks mods are overworked...
Although he's probably more concerned about SO, where that's likely more of an issue.
 
3:54 PM
@Flimzy yeah, even we don't match their flag rate :)
 
@Flimzy I'd say that if you're flagging as "obsolete" it's not that urgent. If you can't do it, either (a) wait till someone else does it; or (b) mention it to a mod here in the chat. The flagging system isn't the only way to get mod attention.
 
@TRiG good point, someone is pretty much always here
 
4:57 PM
darn me, I managed to miss enthusiast while I was gone...I knew I missed a couple of days...didn't realize that I was at 29 days...
 
5:16 PM
@waxeagle That sucks. I'm leaving town this weekend and I think I'll probably end up screwing up my run.
 
@Richard yeah I was over 90 days on gardening and messed it up this past week...
 
Ouch.
 
@Richard yeah I was in the 80s on RP too
 
5:37 PM
@flimzy you around?
 
6:05 PM
Wow... glad I wasn't around for that debate
 
@Richard heheh
 
6:28 PM
Here ya go... something to do
 
7:14 PM
Wow... now we're getting into Protestant-Catholic division on some of these questions...
 
Honestly, with anything theology related that is inevitable. By the way, just found this from the Biblical Hermeneutics beta. very happy to be here :)
 
@blundin Hey, welcome! :)
 
@blundin welcome, and also BH will have their own chat as well so don't forget to hang there as well :)
 
Yeah, I can't wait for BH to open up. We have the people, but the commitments are stale.
Is it just me or is this "Not a Question"
1
Q: Was Judas remorseful about his betrayal?

AtheistJudas is portrayed as a wicked man, who betrayed Jesus and showed no remorse. He gets his punishment in Acts 1:18: Judas had bought a field with the money he received for his treachery. Falling headfirst there, his body split open, spilling out all his intestines. But in Matthew 27:3-5: ...

I can't figure out where the OP thinks that Judas was portrayed as unremorseful.
Everything he says in the question answers the very question itself.
 
agreed
 
7:25 PM
I'm wondering if he is asking whether or not Judas was saved...which is actually an interesting question
 
@waxeagle I agree. That is an interesting question.
 
@Richard I've heard someone preach a sermon and give a good argument for him having been saved.
partly because he was an instrument of God's will and also partly because of the amount of remorse he felt afterwards.
 
I could see it. Also, it almost sounds like (if we read some of the accounts) that Judas wasn't in control of himself. Hard to say that for sure, though.
I'm very close to closing the question until we can get it resolved. As it stands, I can't see that it's actually asking anything. It needs clarified.
"A = B. Does A = B?"
 
New user! Sandi
Writing style is different, IP is not suspicious, email is not suspicious...nope! It's not Troth! Yay! :P
 
@ElendiaStarman :)
 
7:46 PM
OK... 1/2 hour more then I'm closing it.
 
8:19 PM
@Richard It's been [Jesus' age at time of death] minutes. :P
 
Yeah... I was just about to post something :P
He's had enough time to change his icon... and he has been seen. So I know he knows of this outstanding issue...
 
@Richard whose icon?
 
Athiest. His icon was a basket weave thing.
OK... closed.
 
@Richard gotcha
I was confuzzled
 
Right now the question has +3/-3 on votes. It clearly has some issues. I can easily see a good question hiding in that mess. But until then...
 
8:26 PM
@Richard Make sure you leave a comment to that effe ... nevermind I see you did.
 
Yeah, I always leave a nice, big, fat comment when I close something.
Man, I hate those 180-199 rep days...
 
@Richard so close and yet not quite there
 
Yeah, so frustrating. And you don't know whether to invest time in creating another post or just let it ride and see if it pans out.
 
@Richard of course today ain't one for you :)
 
@waxeagle I was about to mention that. 207 rep at the moment. :P
 
8:31 PM
Thank goodness. It was heading down that path, but I've asked 5 questions today.
 
@Richard lol I just maxed my votes and I know I hit a couple of your Qs from last week
 
:) Yeah, I saw a few oldies pop up.
@Caleb Virtual... virtue...
 
yeah I'm about 4 days away from electorate, provided i can keep finding good questions to vote on
after that its sportsmanship...but I need to answer more questions for that one
 
@Richard Dang how did my fingers get that confused? (fixed and thanks)
 
:)
 
8:50 PM
Is it just me or do a lot of people mix up the methods they use in science with those we use to understand history?
 
Yes.
 
@blundin Hey blundin. Great answer in your comment to me BTW. Makes me want to ask some question where that would be a relevant answer since comments are disposable. I was mostly asking to prod waggers into examining what he was saying because I didn't think it was adding up.
 
You're right, it wasn't
 
... it only takes five people to close a question as not constructive (soliciting debates, arguments, etc.)...
Just thought I'd point that out.
 
thanks caleb. It's an interesting topic, and one a lot of people get tripped up on.
 
9:01 PM
@Waggers Hey ... I don't think angels make intercession for us or that it make any sense to pray for them too, but there has to be a different reason for that than anything about volition.
@Richard So far NOBODY has VTC'ed that. After his last rounds of comments I'd be half tempted to close it myself, but having answered it I might not be the best one to do so.
@Waggers I also don't think that Saints or saints are intercessors in the way that Christ, and although I do believe in intercessory prayer, I don't think angels have any part in that.
 
I've just VTCed it. After due consideration
@caleb yep I didn't think you were expressing your beliefs, just challenging my logic, quite correctly
 
I am half tempted. I may later on. That'll be three in a row for Atheist, fwiw.
 
@Waggers Good :) Having the community weight on things like closes makes a big difference. It's usually taken better by people when it's peer votes than when a mod uses their big hammer to close a question as not-constructive.
 
tempted to post a question on the difference between saints and apostles but I think that can wait until tomorrow (unless anyone else wants to do it in the meantime)
@caleb it's one of those instances where there could have been a decent question in there but athiest resorted to trolling instead
 
9:17 PM
@Waggers Ya. I answered because it seemed like a potentially valuable point to make, but the edits / comments have turned it into a troll-ish post rather going the other way.
 
@Caleb, @Richard: Wanna see if we can all simultaneously close the question? That way, there'd be five close votes... :P
 
@ElendiaStarman I don't think their software would catch on :) I'm inclined to let the community catch this one, they seem to be on it.
 
@Caleb Hehe. I was half-joking.
 
@ElendiaStarman I do think it's amusing there are lots of questions that have 3 or 4 VTC from mods since several of us pro-tems were active VTC'ers before becoming mods.
 
@Caleb Yep, it's always amusing to see one of those. Five would take the cake though.
 
9:21 PM
That is one thing I miss. Not being a mod we could have each just VTC'ed and moved on with our lives. Now we're all sitting watching it wondering if it's best to use the big stick or not.
@ElendiaStarman I saw a coupe 4's, I don't think I've seen 5 on this site (although I have on others).
 
Oooo...I wonder if we could pull in at least one other mod and try to get 6 diamonds on a close vote... :P
 
Here's one with four close diamonds (and five votes)
What happens when a question is merged? Does that purely move the answers over or is there more to it than that?
 
@Richard It also changes the original question to forward to the new one (rather than having to follow a link like for duplicates)
Basically people never see the question if it's been merged, they only see the target when they click on the old question.
 
Aah, ok. I see. Thanks.
 
BTW I think as mods we get different behavior when clicking on a merged question because at least on the ones where I have done the merge, I do get to see the original question (although it shows up as deleted) but for other folks I think they just go to the target.
 
9:33 PM
Huh. Good to know. I don't plan on merging anything (although I was tempted), but I'm glad to know the behavior.
 
Heading out guys, seeya! :)
 
@Richard I've merged a couple of questions from our recent sockpuppeting troll into corresponding related (but obviously better) questions from legitimate users.
 
I'm tempted to merge the latest "Will atheists go to hell" question since it seems to be fluctuating between positive and negative and gathering flags. But the "master" question isn't much better.
 
Ya that's a rough one. Frankly neither question is very good.
I would forget the merge and just delete the new one.
And, done.
 
Aah, thanks! :)
 
9:47 PM
You know somethings wrong (and that we have lurking troll sympathizers) when obviously bad-faith questions that get closed by the community still collect upvotes and trolls keep gaining rep with every new post.
 
Yeah. The trolls are gathering.
 
user2334
@Caleb That's a lot of SE sites for you. Seems like many SE users on the 2.0 stack are also redditors and use votes like they do on Reddit: upvote if you thought it was mildly interesting
 
You mean that's not the appropriate use for votes?
j/k
 
user2334
Well, technically it is :P Votes mean whatever the voters want them to mean
 
Heh. :) True
 
10:01 PM
@Mark I'm convinced we have people here up voting questions in the same way my neighbors all show up on their balconies if there is a cat fight in the street or a siren in the neighborhood.
They want to see how it plays out or who gets in trouble.
 
10:38 PM
I did vote up this one, I thought it was interesting: christianity.stackexchange.com/questions/3496/…
Not sure I understand his comment.
 

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