Home Improvement

11:51 AM

I agree that the linked question is the same question, but the old question doesn't have any answers that mention the risk of someone mis-wiring with a 2-way switch. @Tester101 do you want to mention the blog post and answer the old one?

2

Q: Why don't my 3-way switches work like 3-way switches?

I just moved into a house and am trying to figure out all the switches. I have now determined there are two switches at opposite ends of a hallway that turn on/off the hall lights, so I'm guessing it's a 3-way switch. However, they don't work quite as expected. Which ever light switch I use to tu...

diy.stackexchange.com/questions/8240/…

Hmm, I've having second thoughts on closing this. One question is how do I rewire it, the other question is why doesn't it work. Should that really be a dup or does each have some value?

Tester101

12:32 PM

@BMitch I don't think I can add much to the old question, @KeithS seems to have handled it well enough.

BMitch

One thing that's missing from the blog entry, with the DPDT pictures, I don't think it's obvious that the physical switch only has 4 screws (two travelers on each side).

From a techie side, it's great for explaining the theory, but from the practical side, I'm not sure I'd know how to rewire a 4 way switch after reading it

Tester101

BMitch

I think a lot of people would glaze over at seeing that

The Evil Greebo

@Tester101 its monochromatic

Tester101

It's not meant to tell you how to wire the switches (per se), it's meant to give some background and help you understand the concepts.

The Evil Greebo

12:37 PM

conclusion: everything wires to black

@Tester101 That's the real reason the electricity stopped working in "Revolution"!

<-- lasted 5 minutes into that show. When the teacher said, "Physics went crazy and nobody knows why" I deleted it.

BMitch

@TheEvilGreebo Something tells me I'm going to be horribly disappointed in the actual explanation

Tester101

There is no color, because it's meant to illustrate how the switches work. Not wire color standards (which are different depending on where you live).

@BMitch It's probably the smoke monster again.

BMitch

They've got gunpowder to work, but can't make an internal combustion engine, and no one seems to like steam engines either

The Evil Greebo

@BMitch The airliners going into flat spins for no reason also ticked me off. They should have crashed, sure, but in an uncontrolled glide

@BMitch well you can't use spark plugs

but yeah, steam = no electricity

i didnt get that far, just read about it

BMitch

@Tester101 I never watched the other shows from him, and if this goes into magic, it's off the DVR list

The Evil Greebo

12:41 PM

something about guns loaded with a ram rod work but not shells with primer?

BMitch

they had hand guns too

cool people get hand guns, others have to go back to the ram rod

The Evil Greebo

there isn't a gun out there afaik that fires using electricity

@BMitch Oh, so it was Revolution by Abercrombie and Fitch ?

Tester101

@TheEvilGreebo I don't know that much about airplanes, but if the flaps are electronically controlled they might be left flapping in the breeze.

BMitch

@TheEvilGreebo diesel, no spark plug needed

The Evil Greebo

@Tester101 negative

BMitch

12:42 PM

@TheEvilGreebo bingo

The Evil Greebo

@BMitch you can't fire a diesel cold - glow plugs needed to start it

@Tester101 flaps are mechanically linked - in larger gets controlled by hydraulics (still mechanical) - they cannot "flap in the breeze"

BMitch

yeah, the airplanes annoyed me too, not to mention there are a lot of planes up there, but not one every few blocks

Tester101

Metal Storm fires electronically.

The Evil Greebo

good god no - minimum clearance even in class b space is half a mile

@Tester101 now if you meant the ailerons - they are also mechanically linked and diametrically opposed - one goes up the other goes down

BMitch

I worked on some FAA stuff years ago, it's crazy when you see a map of every plane in the sky

The Evil Greebo

12:44 PM

flat spins can, afaik, only occur in planes that are really unstable to begin with - fighter jets and the like

BMitch

I've yet to see anyone riding a bike either

The Evil Greebo

probably gear changers stopped working

you know cause of the stroby flashlights some bikes have

BMitch

in the end, one person fires up a computer with a magical /bin/ksh that connects to some port to chat with someone, and I'm left wondering if this is supposed to be wireless or if they kept all the telephone lines connected after 15 years

The Evil Greebo

so telephone lines aren't electrical then

that's neat

BMitch

1:11 PM

everything works when you use a magic decoder ring with some usb thumb drive plugged inside it

The Evil Greebo

@BMitch USB thumb drives are also not electronic

Chris Cudmore

So what should be done about this?

3

Q: Why is my 3-prong dryer outlet showing 240V between hot and neutral/ground 'L' prong?

I'm trying to tell what might be wired wrong with our dryer outlet. Using a Fluke 75 set to AC, I read 238V between the hot leads, 118V from one lead to ground, and 238V between the other lead to ground. Is this a simple breaker box problem or might I have bigger issues? FYI, the house was built ...

electrical wiring dryer

It's an interesting conversation, but it was based on a bad premise.

Tester101

@ChrisCudmore You mean the question, or if you ever found yourself in this situation?

Chris Cudmore

And ultimately, @Bmitch should get the glory for the answer.

I mean the question.

We've got a lot of noise about the wrong premise there.

BMitch

I just stated the obvious once we had decent input

Maybe put an edit above the answers that are based on bad input?

Chris Cudmore

1:18 PM

@BMitch I like that.

BMitch

"This answer was based on a prior version of the question"

Chris Cudmore

Want me to handle it?

Tester101

Maybe the question should be deleted and re-asked (with proper data)

wax eagle

quite frankly it looks like something that could be closed as TL

BMitch

go for it

wax eagle

1:19 PM

equipment malfunction/user error is sort of the SO equivalent of a syntax error

BMitch

@waxeagle the last version of the question isn't TL, the first version was just unexplainable

Tester101

It's a big mess of guesses, misinformation, and chatter. It's hard to imagine it will be useful to anybody else, even if they find themselves in the same situation.

wax eagle

@BMitch gotcha

BMitch

I think I'll steal the proper voltage measurement pic for my answer

wax eagle

@Tester101 has anyone asked for a shot of the wiring in the outlet?

Chris Cudmore

1:21 PM

We don't need it. Once we had good data, it was pretty obvious what the problem was.

Tester101

If somebody came across this question, would they actually be able to figure out what the solution really is?

wax eagle

@Tester101 one solution is deleting the answers that no longer apply to the question as asked, the other option is closing it and having OP reask, this kind of thing is always a mess when a question is asking one thing and then is edited to ask another :|

BMitch

only if everyone gives me a +1 and he re-awards the correct answer :D

if I actually needed the rep, I would have felt dirty saying that

Tester101

22 hours ago, by Tester101

I'm starting to think this question is user error.

BMitch

I need to give out more bounties

Tester101

1:25 PM

@BMitch You should also add hand drawn calculations to your answer.

That picture confused me. I knew what he was trying to prove, but I still found it hard to follow.

BMitch

I'm thinking I should add a hand drawn building diagram for the fishtank in the wall

Changing topics, I decided to navigate todays XKCD by keyboard, changing the coordinates in the URL: imgs.xkcd.com/clickdrag/15s1w.png

G+ doesn't get enough love

wax eagle

@BMitch too true.

@BMitch can't wait to get home to play with it...

Tester101

@ChrisCudmore You forgot this answer.

0

A: Why is my 3-prong dryer outlet showing 240V between hot and neutral/ground 'L' prong?

There does not seem to be a problem in this case. your breaker box does not regulate any voltage supply, (only cuts the supply in the case of a short) Your power grid is supplied at a higher voltage (around 3300v), to your home, at the end of the utilities power grid will be an LV transformer w...

"This answer was based on a misinterpretation of a prior version of the question"

BMitch

@Tester101 lol

Chris Cudmore

Should the question have the [some-genius] tag?

The Evil Greebo

1:32 PM

@ChrisCudmore my best invention ever ;)

Chris Cudmore

It's important not to use it in an insulting manner.

The Evil Greebo

he didn't wire it, did he?

Chris Cudmore

True.

BMitch

Sep 13 at 13:12, by wax eagle

cough meta-tag cough

Personally, I think we should get rid of some-genius, it's a funny joke, but doesn't serve much value to the tagging system.

The Evil Greebo

probably not

BMitch

1:38 PM

But I do feel bad being a party pooper

Tester101

Friggin' Skeptics

0

Q: Do commercial airliners really go into flat spins if they lose electronics?

In movies and television, commercial airliners that have lost electronics often go into flat spins and inevitably crash. Is this what would really happen? Would the plane be able to glide to a (possibly survivable) crash landing? Would it dive nose first into the ground? What would really happen?...

physics movies aviation television

The Evil Greebo

Only you can prevent party-pooping

3

Tester101

Please give some examples of such movies. I don't think you mean "flat spin", and I am not sure this is notable. — Oddthinking 9 mins ago

Chris Cudmore

They don't actually want to answer any questions.

Tester101

New question "Do people on Skeptics, actually want to answer questions?"

Chris Cudmore

1:50 PM

Just out of curiousity, Where is that 3-prong outlet for the dryer used? We use 4 prong in canada

H1, H2, N, G

Tester101

@ChrisCudmore We used to use 3 prong. Newer installs use 4 prong.

Chris Cudmore

Even in the 70's we had 4-prong.

Tester101

@ChrisCudmore We are slower to adapt than Canada.

Niall C.

Just like metric

Chris Cudmore

Speaking of which, How are those weights and measures working out for you?

Tester101

1:53 PM

Too many layers of standards bodies and government have to bicker over changes. It takes quite a while.

Chris Cudmore

And what's funny, is most of our standards are ANSI or ASTM based. Usually the CSA standard is a reference to the American one, or at least a footnote referencing the acceptability of an acceptable ANSI/ASTM/DOT/FCC alternative standard.

Tester101

@ChrisCudmore Canada is more nimble, you just do whatever the queen says.

And the queen likes 4 prong.

Chris Cudmore

Not since 1931.

And the crown didn't say much since George III.

BMitch

@ChrisCudmore those weights and measures and really annoying me. I think we could slow everyone down and get a jump start on transitioning if we changed all highway signs to metric

Tester101

"Awesome, they made this highway 89MPH!"

Chris Cudmore

2:01 PM

Well, we still have 341ml beers, and 454 g packs of butter.

Tester101

@BMitch You'd also have to update most vehicle instrument panels.

Chris Cudmore

And don't go Euro and start using Centi-litres. Useless unit.

BMitch

@Tester101 Most of them have dual measurements on the speedometer, or can be easily switched

Chris Cudmore

That's right. What's 3000 RPM in metric?

The Evil Greebo

@ChrisCudmore 7

Chris Cudmore

2:03 PM

Double it and add 30 -- 6030

BMitch

not sure about older odometers, but I'm guessing the newer ones can be changed with a software switch so they can sell the same equipment in other countries

Tester101

I don't know, my odometer seems to like miles.

BMitch

start with the mile markers on the side of the road, hardly anyone looks at those anyways

Tester101

I think the transition would be far too expensive to even consider at this point.

BMitch

the annoying thing will be renumbering all the exit signs now that they fall on a different KM numbers

Tester101

2:06 PM

Unless we find somebody to buy all our tape measures.

Chris Cudmore

I use them all the time. Yonge St, center of Toronto, is Exit 366 on the 401. I can glance at the side of the road, and get a quick estimate of driving time from the marker.

The Evil Greebo

here in chat how do you link to a single comment in a question/answer ?

BMitch

one way to transition is to simply make it a transition rather than a change, everything new gets a dual sign/gauge, and you slowly phase out the old after 5 years in a transition phase

Niall C.

@TheEvilGreebo The timestamp on the comment is a hyperlink

The Evil Greebo

"Revolution" is generally very weak on Science part of S-F. In fact it's not any more science based, than Harry Potter or such. — vartec 7 mins ago

No crap cerlock

Chris Cudmore

2:08 PM

@JeremyW.Sherman There are new, mini-sized widgets, for those occasions when you only have 1 inch between widget sender and widget receiver. — bib 11 hours ago

What does that even mean?

Niall C.

Does this question need more tags?

0

Q: What is the difference between fire cement and fire concrete?

I am trying to build a foundry. The Youtube video refers to 4:1 Perlite:Fire Cement. But the shop also offers Fire Concrete. I don't know what's the difference. Could someone please explain the difference?

concrete

Chris Cudmore

Not until we know the use.

Is he pouring it? or using it as an adhesive for firebrick.

See edit. The Perlite:Cement makes me think it's going to be an insulative skim coat of some sort.

Niall C.

It was "Perlit" in the original version, I hope I was right in changing it to Perlite

Chris Cudmore

I read it originally as a brand name.

Tester101

Concrete = Aggregate (shit that gets bound together), Cement (binder), Water (activates the binding process).

Chris Cudmore

2:22 PM

Although, I tend to think of cement as Cement powder and Water mixed together.

Tester101

Hmm... @ChrisCudmore I don't think the cement would be very useful if you didn't mix it with water.

The Evil Greebo

@Tester101 you can pour cement mix in a hole around a fence post and leave it. it'll absorb water on its own and solidify over time

i'm not advocating this...

Tester101

@TheEvilGreebo But it still gets mixed with water, right?

The Evil Greebo

well, that depends on what you mean by the word "mix"

Chris Cudmore

What is it after it's hardened?

Tester101

2:26 PM

Um. How about the dictionary meaning Mix: Combine or put together to form one substance or mass.

The Evil Greebo

@Tester101 No, I don't like that one.

Tester101

@TheEvilGreebo Why are you being difficult today?

Do I have to get @Aarthi to give you a spanking?

2

The Evil Greebo

@Tester101 There is a flaw in the premise there.

Niall C.

@Tester101 today??

The Evil Greebo

@NiallC. Winner winner, chicken dinner!

Chris Cudmore

2:28 PM

@Tester101 Where Do I sign up?

2

Niall C.

@TheEvilGreebo Rain check, I'm still working on breakfast

The Evil Greebo

@NiallC. EAT THE CHICKEN, DAMN YOU!

Tester101

9

Q: Why are “Wire Nuts” not used in the UK?

I have never seen a wire nut used in the UK, but they seem to be very common in the USA, why?

electrical

lots of activity on this year old question.

Chris Cudmore

Cool! Just got a second Yearling badge.

It's kinda like AA

My name is Chris, and I am some-genius.

2

Chris Cudmore

2:59 PM

Niall C.

That's quite the drywall job

Chris Cudmore

That stuff costs up to $10 a sheet. You've got to save where you can.

BMitch

That looks like a Habitat project. They outsource the mudding, and I'm sure the mudders are muttering a lot of 4 letter words when they're onsite.

Aarthi

3:27 PM

Spankings? What is going on.

Chris Cudmore

@TheEvilGreebo was being difficult, and I'm just a naughty boy.

Aarthi

I see. :P

Tester101

4:29 PM

Perfect tool for adjusting attitudes.

pneumatic attitude adjuster.

Chris Cudmore

Hobbit Trailer UP!!!

uproxx.com/gammasquad/2012/09/second-hobbit-trailer

BMitch

@Aarthi I think this chat room is trying for a workplace harassment lawsuit, but luckily we don't work for SE.

Tester101

4:44 PM

@BMitch We're just trying to stay true to the construction workers milieu.

BMitch

@Tester101 construction workers and techies, put the two together and you get a bad disco craving combination.

Aarthi

@BMitch i wouldn't put it past this room glares

Aaron

haha wow that wall o drywall is great

Aarthi

:D

Aaron

I think the F-16 (or F-22?) is negatively dynamicly stable for greater manuverability, so if it gets pushed off of 'true' it'll oscillate more and more instead of dampen

If that lost all computers, i believe it would be uncontrollable

Relaxed stability

In aviation, relaxed stability is the tendency of an aircraft to change its attitude and angle of bank of its own accord. An aircraft with relaxed stability will oscillate in simple harmonic motion around a particular attitude at an increasing amplitude. This can be contrasted with the tendency of an aircraft with positive stability, which, when trimmed to fly at a certain attitude, will continue to do so in the absence of control input, and will oscillate in simple harmonic motion on a decreasing scale around the trimmed attitude, eventually returning to its trimmed attitude. A positive...

Aaron

5:15 PM

amazon.com/Werner-MT-22-300-Pound-Telescoping-Multi-Ladder/dp/…

Tester101

300 pound ladder? That must be a pain to move around.

@Aaron Does this mean you're working on a blog post for next week?

Aaron

@Tester101 affirmative

I was just putting the link in here so I could get the SE referral code

Aaron

5:46 PM

We also need to have an organization scheme of Categories vs Tags and a schema/document to use them correctly

Tester101

@Aaron I have a hard time even getting people to write posts. schemes, categories, tags, and documents are asking a bit much ;P

Aaron

I'll retroactively fix them if we can come to an agreement on how they should be used

Tester101

We'll have to have a staff meeting. Or maybe a Meta question.

@BlogStaff: Please report for a meeting.

Did that ping anybody?

No?

@Aaron The @BlogStaff ping is not working. Do whatever you think works best. You lead, we'll all follow.

If you need more privileges, just ask and I can promote you to admin.

I'm guessing Aarthi and I are the only admins who have logged in since the system change over, so another active admin could be useful.

Aaron

6:02 PM

8

Q: How can I contribute to the DIY community blog?

I'd like to contribute to the Home Improvement Stack Exchange Blog, how do I get started?

support blog

@Tester101 that needs to be updated for the new OAUTH login

Tester101

Do you know what the new link is?

Aaron

@Aarthi would know

Aarthi

one moment please, I'm in a meeting muzak

Chris Cudmore

Is this what you're looking for?

diy.blogoverflow.com/wp-admin

Aaron

Yeah I mean they changed it so you don't need a separate Wordpress login

Tester101

6:13 PM

Thanks @ChrisCudmore I wasn't sure if that was the right address.

@Aaron updated the Meta question

Aaron

should I re-take this picture?

I'm actually curious how I got it to be half blurry

Chris Cudmore

Yes. Rebuild the fence, rake the leaves and cut the grass. Then take a picture.

What kind of camera were you using? That's interesting.

Is there schmutz on the lens?

Aaron

the iphone 3GS

Tester101

You must have set the ladder just at the edge of a wormhole.

Aaron

I guess I must have started moving the camera before the shutter closed

Tester101

6:19 PM

Looks like a spacetime disruption.

Chris Cudmore

I find that happens a lot. Mine seems to click an instant before it actually takes the picture.

It looks like rotation blur. The rung above the label is clear, but the further away you get from it, the blurrier it gets.

I'd also take it from an angle about 10 - 20 degrees off the center line. Show some of those sexy rungs.

Aaron

6:38 PM

damn you xkcd!

/* 50:72:6f:50:75:6b:65:20:69:73:20:61:77:65:73:6f:6d:65 */

BMitch

short cut for today's cartoon: xkcd-map.rent-a-geek.de

2

The Evil Greebo

@BMitch I knew if I waited long enough someone would do that

Aaron

Thank god

BMitch

I was scrolling by typing in coordinates to the raw image url's

Aaron

Although I was actually at first looking at it in the google RSS reader and it didn't load the JS so it was just blank so I didn't get it

also: explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php?title=1110

Aarthi

6:46 PM

@Tester101 did you get it fixed, Tester?

Tester101

@Aarthi I think so.

Aarthi

excellent. lemme know if that changes. :)

BMitch

@Tester101 opportunity to waste more time in chat rooms starting in 5 minutes over in TL

Aarthi

yeaaaah

Aarthi

7:09 PM

if any of you are interested, come party with the mod team in a public room!

The Assembly

You know those boring town council meetings you never attend? ...

2

The Evil Greebo

7:46 PM

@BMitch seems to have died

nope there it is again

BMitch

I'm not dead yet

Tester101

This guy might be, if he continues to build this deck.

4

Q: Should I take my deck apart to fix a 1/2" lean?

I am building a 15'x23' deck in Knoxville. I built a sandwich girder at the end using 12" x 16" deep concrete piers, 4x4 posts sitting on galvanized metal brackets and pressure treated 2x10's sandwiched together using 3" nails and 1/2" lag bolts 6 inches long. I left the braces I used to hold the...

decking

Chris Cudmore

I can't really figure out where the problem is there.

It sounds like his beam is sagging.

Tester101

Sounds like either it's sagging, or the posts are sinking, or the whole assembly is leaning.

Maybe "snake" = "sag"?

Chris Cudmore

That's what I thought, but I'm not sure.

Tester101

7:52 PM

I'm not sure a deck is a beginner project. "This is my first time building anything."

The Evil Greebo

@Tester101 Better than "I just cut out this wall in the center of my house. This is my first time building anything."

Chris Cudmore

No, There'd be much more entertainment value in that one.

Aaron

I don't think he's a complete beginner though, he does use lots of lingo like 'sandwich girder' etc

BMitch

People tend to be more careful when destroying the inside of their house. But it's just as easy to build a bad deck that collapses when your party of a dozen people are all over at once.

Tester101

@TheEvilGreebo and it's possible they would be asking that question while covered in rubble.

The Evil Greebo

7:57 PM

@Tester101 Ok @ChrisCudmore is right - that'd have much more entertainment value...

Chris Cudmore

And that's the difference experience makes. I spend more time on LEVEL and SQUARE than any other part of the project.

Tester101

@ChrisCudmore I spend most of my time on planning. Lots of blueprints and detailed drawings/models.

It's a lot easier to change a drawing, than to rebuild stuff.

The Evil Greebo

0

Q: Should we install beadboard paneling or countertop first?

We are planning to install bead board paneling to our kitchen back splash, and new Formica for the counter tops. Which product should be installed first, and why?

kitchen backsplash countertops

BMitch

alright, time to unplug and get back to coding, l8r peeps

The Evil Greebo

I cannot think of a "one is better than the other because..."

Chris Cudmore

8:06 PM

Yeah, now that I think about it, there's less of a chance of leaking behind if the board goes over the counter top.

The Evil Greebo

i know

otoh you are less likely to get a perfect looking edge w/ panel over counter

Chris Cudmore

Yeah. Precisely.

Matthew PK

So I told that guy with the strange washing-machine outlet to give BMitch the answer and it got me wondering: what happens if you have rep from getting an answer, then you give it away as a bounty, and then the "accepted answer" is changed? Negative rep?

Chris Cudmore

I suppose so, but an answer's only 15 pts. It won't kill you.

I blow 5 points a day on downvotes.

Matthew PK

I don't care about the points

I'm just wondering how the SE handles it

Chris Cudmore

8:22 PM

Well, I don't think they care where the rep came from. What happens when you get 10 up votes, and then the question is deleted?

-100 rep.

Matthew PK

Say I had 40 rep, then got 15 for an accepted answer... then I gave away 50 on a bounty... then the accepted answer was changed. I think I'd go to zero (rather than negative 5)... This is blatant rep inflation! RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE

Chris Cudmore

Oh, you mean actually going over to the dark side of the number line.

Matthew PK

yup

Chris Cudmore

I don't think +40 users are offering bounty.

Matthew PK

THAT'S NOT THE POINT!!! (feigned yelling)

Niall C.

8:24 PM

You can't go below 1 rep. And AFAIK you can't give away more than 50% of your rep

149

Q: How does the bounty system work?

What is a bounty? What is the "Featured" tab on the homepage? How can I search for questions that have a bounty attached? How do I start a bounty? When can I start a bounty? How long is the bounty period? How do I award a bounty? Can I award a bounty to my own answer? What happens if there's no ...

support faq bounty

Chris Cudmore

You need 75 rep to set a bounty.

Matthew PK

semantics... I could just as easily have 10 questions change their accepted answer, swinging rep 150

The Assembly

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