TRPG General Chat

nitsua60

12:10 AM

This victory, by the way, puts me at two for three. Still working on the three year-old.

trogdor

hehehe

the rpgs shall consume you

Miniman

@nitsua60 Time to start playing RPG podcasts while he sleeps.

nitsua60

I have a suspicion that the impending LARP/TTRPG birthday party will seal the deal: either she'll be super-jealous or totally turned-off.

trogdor

TTRPG?

Miniman

@trogdor TableTop RPG.

trogdor

12:18 AM

ah ok

figures

I know that one but no one ever has abbreviated it to me before

BESW

Someone really missed the boat when they failed to abbreviate it "TAbletop Role-Playing game."

nitsua60

Zuggtmoy's Stuffed Mushrooms also may be the deal-sealer. Or deal-breaker. Especially if Zuggtmoy gets insulted by us eating a dish named after him made of his minions....

@BESW I thought that's what the Troubled Asset Relief Program was all about: "we'll just pretend we're giving money to people, pass it around a bit to make everyone feel better, then POOF!"

It's totally a TTRPG.

Paulsen: Okay, this time I'll be the good guy, Geithner'll be the bad guy.
Bernanke: Who am I?
Geithner: dammit, Ben, we've been over this. You're the beard-guy.

BESW

@KMallory, @Emrakul [wave]

user61230

@BESW Vigorously waves back!

Shalvenay

hey there @nitsua60

nitsua60

12:24 AM

hiya

Shalvenay

what's up?

nitsua60

Another big grading push. Then writing a test on infinite sets.
It's gonna be a long night.
[rimshot]

Miniman

@nitsua60 As in writing an academic examination where the subject is infinite sets, or actually writing a test to be performed on infinite sets?

user61230

No, no, writing a test that is an infinite set.

nitsua60

@Miniman I think answering that question requires the Axiom of Choice, and that starts to get uncomfortable for me =)

Miniman

12:28 AM

@Emrakul I'm glad I'm not a student anymore...

nitsua60

(seriously, though: the first)

Miniman

@nitsua60 I suspected that was the case :P

nitsua60

Anyone in the room have a favorite pigeonhole principle problem they remember?

Miniman

@nitsua60 Building a hash table? Not exactly a favourite, just the one I've done most often.

user61230

GRR, PLEASE, CHAT.

user61230

12:33 AM

@nitsua60 I'm laughing, but you might actually try on Puzzling.

doppelgreener

@nitsua60 make sure you order a daughter-sized foam sword and shield and whatever, just in case

BESW

@nitsua60 I'm not sure if it's a problem per se, but I learned the pigeonhole principle for Dirk Niblick helping his mother get matching socks in a dark room.

user61230

@nitsua60 For example, this one (though that might be a bit long for a test question).

nitsua60

@Emrakul turns out it's got its own tag on math.SE. Guess I'm browsing over there a bit tonight.

user61230

@nitsua60 That's also fair!

nitsua60

12:35 AM

@BESW as in minimum required for a guaranteed pair is n_pairs + 1?

BESW

@nitsua60 Yup.

At least, I think so? It's been a long time. [looks for the episode]

nitsua60

the sock one might be a good one if I slot it into my "easy" category, rather than the "medium" pigeonhole problem I'd been planning for.

BESW

Ah, right. His mother had a drawer of maize and blue socks, but the bulb burnt out in her bedroom. What's the minimum number of socks she needed to pull from the drawer to be sure of getting a matching pair the first time?

doppelgreener

(matching pair the first time..?)

user61230

The pigeonhole principle is why I always bundle my socks in pairs. That way, if I need two pairs of socks that are the same color, I only need to pick roughly half as many socks.

BESW

12:44 AM

@doppelgreener She wants to grab X socks in the dark and be sure she gets a matching pair so she doesn't have to go back again.

nitsua60

@doppelgreener iirc, it's "first time leaving the room to check what's in her hands"

what she does with n_colors-1 leftover socks, we'll never know =\

doppelgreener

Oh. Wouldn't it be three?

BESW

@doppelgreener Yes.

doppelgreener

I see how the pigeonhole principle applies now. :)

BESW

SQ1TV also did the handshake problem.

nitsua60

12:45 AM

yup. (I had in my head the situation in my drawer, where there are no two identical pairs of socks. SquareOne's production designer's much smarter than I am when buying socks.)

@BESW How long does the cold you get last after shaking so many hands at a conference?

That one?

BESW

@nitsua60 No, the minimum number of handshakes necessary for each person in a room of X people to shake everyone else's hand once.

nitsua60

n(n+1)/2, I hope?

delving into triangular numbers as a follow-on?

BESW

I remember they had lots of visual props; I think they led with triangular numbers.

nitsua60

I always wonder if SquareOne got me to like recreational mathematics, or if I already had some predisposition that made me like SquareOne...?

I mean, I haven't thought of these things in decades and yet I can visualize the cartoon of the light bulb out and looking for the socks.

doppelgreener

2 people take 1 handshake, 3 people take 3 handshakes, 4 people take 6, 5 people take 10... interesting. You go person by person. Person #1 shakes (number of people - 1) hands. Person #2 shakes one fewer (they already shook person #1's hand). Person #3 shakes one fewer than #2 (having already shaken two hands) and so on.

BESW

12:52 AM

Almost everything I retain about math is rooted in SQ1TV.

Alas, I can't find the Nobody's Inn skit.

nitsua60

Ditto, I think. Or NASA TV.

doppelgreener

So for n people you have handshakes = n-1 + n-2 + n-3 ... until you hit 0.

BESW

SQ1TV tended to do visual/geometric demonstrations more than straight algebraic proofs.

That helped me a lot.

user61230

I think algebraic proofs are a tool for formalization of intuitive thinking.

doppelgreener

I was tracing it out invisibly on the table with my finger to work it out

nitsua60

12:55 AM

@doppelgreener yup

@doppelgreener we could have all just ping-shaked with each other... =)

BESW

In the Nobody's Inn sketch, they're actually trying to figure out how much time it'll take for their guests to greet each other, so they know when to have dinner ready.

nitsua60

@Emrakul there's a lot to that. Then there's also a level where algebraic structures gain some "independent existence" and are useful for exploratory/playful work... and we don't know what may or may not have been modeled until well after the fact.

BESW

The sketch concludes with the revelation, far too late, that their handshake math was right but they severely underestimated the time anyway because the guests have a bizarre handshake ritual which takes a long time to perform.

(Thereby also reminding us to check our assumptions and make sure they match the real-world situation we're dealing with.)

user61230

@nitsua60 That's fair! I'm a physics major (math minor), so most of the math I've done is in a metric space, up to this point.

user61230

I think this document (PDF) elucidates my opinion on this, though, better than I probably could.

nitsua60

1:00 AM

@Emrakul so was I, at one point! Welcome to the club! [initiates bizzare handshake ritual which takes a long time to perform]

user61230

(Though I personally think it grinds a little too harshly into the educators rather than the educational system.)

user61230

@nitsua60 Oh man, sweet! The h-bar handshake.

BESW

@Emrakul Yeeah. Most educators know full well how silly all the abstraction, standardisation, and formalisation gets.

nitsua60

@Emrakul (that one only takes 10^-34 seconds)

user61230

@BESW That's true. That's only a small part of the essay, though. A lot of it really just drives home points about how mathematics is taught, rather than who's to blame for it.

BESW

1:03 AM

Yar.

nitsua60

So... RPGs: a buddy and I are trying to hack together a version of Lady Blackbird that would work for unknown number of players.

BESW

Are you going back to the original engine?

Or hacking forward?

@Emrakul I feel very lucky to have learnt math with Cuisenaire rods and centimetre/gram cubes and Venn diagram games and so forth.

nitsua60

We're thinking the opening reveal is that near-future astronauts have dug up a mysterious object on the moon. It blasts a signal the first time sunlight hits it, in the direction of Jupiter. A mission is assembled to go figure out what's up. Mission specialists are hibernating, two crewmen awake for the trip out. Players are mission specialists who are not murdered by the ship's computer. But they do awake to a two-man crew very annoyed at living alone with each other, played by me and co-GM.

@BESW Not sure what you mean. Also, I'm just reading LB for the first time this week, so I'm probably doubly-not-sure what you mean.

BESW

@nitsua60 Lady Blackbird is a pre-made hack of the Solar System RPG, which some fiddly bits modified.

But a lot of people have hacked LB forward using its own design rather than returning to its origins.

nitsua60

ugh... I hate it when kids sitting near each other get similar, strangely-wrong answers =(

BESW

1:14 AM

@nitsua60 My mother once had an entire English Lit class submit chapter-reading journals for Great Expectations, in which Pip shot Biddy.

(For those unfamiliar with the novel, that's... shall we say, an unusual interpretation of the text.)

doppelgreener

@nitsua60 I am now given cause to reflect on something. The most stimulating ways I find to learn something and develop a solution to a difficult problem are to talk with others and work it out. And, I learn well from reading and online lectures, but also from talking to people and trying to teach them what I know.

However, schooling focuses exclusively on lectures and reading, and I've never seen a class that encouraged open dialog between students over a topic or in solving a problem. (Except or the rare "partner up with someone" situations.) By contrast, all work, homework, and exams are done quietly and usually on one's own

nitsua60

(perhaps "most schooling" or "focuses primarily"?)

doppelgreener

All schooling I've experienced.

nitsua60

Let me give you two examples: the two things I'm grading tonight. (A) is a four-week twenty-page problem set where students are explicitly encouraged to work together if they like. To the extent that there's a sign-off "brag sheet" on the back of each problem set: kids collect signatures of others they've helped and display them like a badge of honor.

doppelgreener

That's pretty cool.

BESW

1:25 AM

@doppelgreener It's an unfortunately common default, but also increasingly challenged.

nitsua60

(B) a test on the same material, where I hope to measure the extent to which that ^^ process has led to each individual kid internalizing that which was expected.

BESW

My mother's composition classes spend a lot of time in peer review and class consultation on themes.

nitsua60

Like we face here, there's some appreciation that collaboration creates lots of learning, but also much need to be able to differentiate between help vampires and those who've actually learned something.

All in all, I interpret the presence of a diploma in hand not so much as an indication of anything the graduate knows, but as a certification that the graduate has certain experiences.

(But I'm sometimes atypical.)

BESW

@nitsua60 Often a PhD indicates primarily that the holder has survived the intense systemic hazing ritual that is the PhD process.

The same is true, to varying levels, of other diplomas.

nitsua60

Education often suffers, in my experience, from the following truism: rarely will a teacher receive a complaint from a customer about doing things the standard way; always will a teacher receive a complaint from a customer about doing anything new.

(note that customers usually aren't the students)

BESW

1:32 AM

Education also suffers from the concept that it should resemble a business model and even have something like a customer.

nitsua60

Preach, brothers B, E, S, and W!

BESW

Can I get an ELM?!

...too obscure?

nitsua60

a little?

trogdor

yes

everything you say is too obscure, you know this thing

BESW

Okay, so an amen/Entry Level Maths pun might've been a stretch.

nitsua60

1:44 AM

@doppelgreener One thing occurs to me: a boarding school's much more like college than the typical high school, in that the students are basically always around each other and available for these sorts of contacts.

doppelgreener

@nitsua60 Oh yeah, that's true. You work at a boarding school?

nitsua60

Yup.

Founded as a "school for orphans and children of those serving abroad." Our founder did not like dealing with parents =)

doppelgreener

Haha! Good school idea though. :)

nitsua60

I'm told our current headmaster was at a swank occasion in London and was introduced to a Sloane Ranger who remarked: "oh, [redacted]. Good school. For poor boys, yes?"

BESW

[amused]

I went to a private high school with a reputation as the place for kids who'd been kicked out of every other school. Miraculously, that translated to "We're the last chance these kids have and we need to be the ones who don't give up on them."

nitsua60

1:58 AM

What's schooling like on Guam? Are private schools common, rare? Public schools seen as good/bad?

(other axes?)

BESW

Public schools are underfunded and overcrowded, often cramming rival villages together in unsafe temporary buildings.

We've got at least a dozen private schools, all of them religious and most of them run by various Catholic orders. They have varying degrees of reputation; generally they're considered to be academically superior and a good place to make social/political connections for the rest of your life.

nitsua60

So when I hear "underfunded, overcrowded, temporary buildings" I also hear that about plenty of districts in mainland US. Are you talking about the same sort of experience I might be familiar with in a low-performing district mainland, or is your "underfunded, overcrowded" probably nothing like what I'm familiar with?

BESW

I'm not sure exactly what the conditions are in mainland schools.

nitsua60

say, 40 kids an a porta-classroom designed for 20-25?

trogdor

@nitsua60 we get some of that here sometimes too

though our rooms are usually a little smaller with fewer people

nitsua60

2:05 AM

A book for every couple of students, test problems written on the board 'cause there's no copier?

That's the sort of thing I've seen and heard of in a "typical" district with problems.

trogdor

yep we have some of that stuff definitely

BESW

How about a whole generation of high school students that had half-days at weird hours on campuses two or more districts away from their homes, because they had to share the infrastructure with multiple other districts?

nitsua60

(though we know what Tolstoy says about unhappy schools)

@BESW that's pretty extreme. I've heard of it happening here, but usually only when there's a school-fire or the like, resolved within a few years. Then again, I might be pretty sheltered?

hey @SevenSidedDie--didn't get to tagging. Too much fun math tonight =)

BESW

One of the reasons I went to a private high school is that, just about that time, the five or six southern high school districts were all consolidated into one megacampus.

nitsua60

s/fun math/math fun/, if you like =)

BESW

2:09 AM

It was built on a non-compliant toxic waste dump site.

It was designed for electronic climate control (no windows suitable for opening to get a breeze), but the contractors didn't make space for the A/C units to fit.

The theatre stage rotted and fall apart in a handful of years, because it had been made of plywood.

nitsua60

@BESW ... good for chem projects? [loosens tie a-la Rodney Dangerfield] yeesh... tough crowd.

BESW

The whole campus architecture seemed designed with hidey-holes for students to use drugs and commit violent acts out of sight.

nitsua60

Seriously, that sucks. Sorry to hear it.

BESW

On top of which, combining all the southern villages into one campus is roughly equivalent to forcing three or four rival gangs onto one gang's turf.

One of my friends, a recent college graduate, can still point out the classroom trailer her boyfriend set fire to in middle school. It's been painted and renovated and is still being used as a classroom.

Anyway, must go. ttfn

Adeptus

3:01 AM

@Momonga-sama Dark Sun (for AD&D 2e) used 5d4 for abilities

nitsua60

@BESW sorry, was afk a bit. Have a good day =)

nitsua60

3:17 AM

@Momonga-sama anydice.com/program/6fb9 will give you a comparison of 4d4 (black) vs. 3d6 (gold); you can see the tighter range and lower mean of 4d4 pretty clearly. How that'll impact your game... not entirely sure.

Adeptus

3:40 AM

I liked Dark Sun. The setting was different to "normal" D&D. And, since it came out in my prime power-gaming days, the attributes went up to 20!

nitsua60

Director: can I see that character?
Adeptus: no, don't touch that sheet.
Director: can I just have a look?
Adeptus: don't touch it!
Director: I wasn't going to touch it. I was just pointing.
Adeptus: well... don't point! It can't be played.
Director: 'don't point.' Got it. Can I look at it?
Adeptus: No, no. That's it, you've seen enough of that one.

(excerpt from "Up to 20", the documentary of Adeptus' power-gaming days)

Adeptus

Yep. Turn them up to 11 ~~18(00)~~ 20

nitsua60

Couldn't you just keep 18 as the highest and make 18 stronger/quicker/healthier/smarter/wiser/friendlier?

SevenSidedDie

3:55 AM

@nitsua60 You mean in Dark Sun?

Or Momonga-sama's design?

nitsua60

yes. no. sort of. just continuing to riff on Spinal Tap quotes.

SevenSidedDie

@nitsua60 Oooah. There really needs to be a “British accent” emoji or something for that. ^^

nitsua60

I heard in an interview with Rob Reiner that he took the money he'd been given for a script and, instead, shot 20 min of improv with Guest, McKean, and Shearer.

Best misappropriation of funds I can imagine.

Joel Harmon

Heh, riff on Spinal Tap

SevenSidedDie

@JoelHarmon *obligatory groan*

Joel Harmon

4:04 AM

that happens a lot to me for some reason

SevenSidedDie

@JoelHarmon Me too. I have more than one incorrigible punster in my group, and I have a habit of accidentally punning (and then people point it out, and I groan).

Joel Harmon

Noted.

I should probably leave before I try to fill chat with music puns

eimyr

8:17 AM

Hello

BESW

Good afternoon, gentlemen.

eimyr

8:52 AM

@Nitsua60 will you make a game with me too?

Momonga-sama

10:04 AM

@Adeptus Mhm, but I want to set a ability cup of 18.

Good morning everyone.

eimyr

Hello.

nitsua60

11:31 AM

@eimyr informative, narrative, cuckoo, or crazy?

@Momonga-sama 5d4-2 gets you 3-18, just with a narrower spread than 3d6.

BESW

@nitsua60 Okay, so now I'm actually starting to design a two-axis system on those principles.

Bad brain. Bad.

nitsua60

@Momonga-sama anydice.com/program/8741, 5d4-2 in black, 3d6 in gold

@BESW good brain... very good =)

BESW

What I've got so far is DRYH-ish. You roll multicoloured dice to either act or describe, and if the wrong (right) colour is highest things go a little mad and you have to act crazy or describe something cuckoo.

Probably too complex for a kid game though.

I'm having similar problems with My Little Psyche.

Especially since Epyllion looks like a bust.

Momonga-sama

11:53 AM

Don't rest your head much? :0

eimyr

12:19 PM

@nitsua60 How about this one: chat.stackexchange.com/transcript/message/29912700#29912700 ?

BESW

1:24 PM

So, tonight the PBS Idea Channel gave me two phrases I want to start using: "Lovecaftian gap" and "[to be] in touch with [one's] subjectivity."

Tophandour

What's the lovecraftian gap?

BESW

@Tophandour Lovecraftian gaps exist between what things appear to be and what things truly are, which when examined can reveal cosmic horror.

Tophandour

Oh, sounds like my life

@Besw did I discuss Roll For Shoes with you a week or so ago?

BESW

I would not be surprised if you had.

Tophandour

I tried it out recently and my group really liked it

BESW

1:33 PM

Yey! What bits stood out for the group?

Tophandour

We all agreed that on days when too many people can't make our regular D&D session, it's a good way to fill the time

They liked the freeform and improv aspects of it

It's great for short stories

BESW

I find it also makes for a good palette cleanser, to get a group out of a "this is the way games have to be" rut, for example when moving between drastically different systems.

Tophandour

after about 2 - 3 hours they become a little bit like superheroes and it gets a little burdensome for them to keep up with everything that they can do, so we agreed that it's appropriate to end at about that point

yeah

BESW

Definitely not the sort of engine intended for long-form campaigns, no.

Tophandour

Yeah, I still really like long-form campaigns that last years, but RFS is a good filler or occasional thing

My current D&D 5e campaign is wrapping up in the next few months and it's been out since the D&D 5e starter set came out

so, two years, I think?

Anyway, my players didn't have time to plan out a character concept so they kind of "discovered" their character based on what rolls they got, which is good

BESW

1:38 PM

One moment, updating the pin.

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[BoH](https://bundleofholding.com "Buy RPGs cheap in bulk, support charities & indie designers!");
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[Up to 4 Players](https://www.patreon.com/ut4p "Support an Israeli-British webcomic about tabletoppery!");

Tophandour

My wife was a "psychadelic cleric" which she reminded the party is not the same as a "psychic cleric"

BESW

Clearly.

Tophandour

We had an elemental mage, a goth necromancer, and a guy that was really good at improvising weapons

The improvised weapons guy suffered a gut wound from a demon that left him with bowel issues for the rest of his life

brb, work things

Ok, I'm back. But yeah, it was a lot of fun and people came up with some pretty creative ideas

Brian

1:57 PM

Hello all

Roll for Shoes sounds interesting. I will look for it.

eimyr

IT is quite a quick and wacky system

Brian

Is it a boxed set or rule books?

doppelgreener

@Brian roll for shoes is fantastic

it is neither, it is seven bullet points published on the internet for free in someone's blog

Brian

LOL can't beat that

doppelgreener

Our Roll for Shoes tag wiki summarises the rules, and links to the blog post in which the creator provides them and talks about his play through with them.

Brian

2:02 PM

Thanks doppelgreener

doppelgreener

You're welcome.

There's actually rather a lot of RPGs that get distributed like that. One Seven Design has put up several RPGs for free - I've played Lady Blackbird which is very fun, and we had a ridiculously fun Lasers & Feelings game recently and that one's rules all fit on one side of one A4 piece of paper.

eimyr

@Brian RFS is one of the most famous microgames. These days you can find a game of almost any length, from 7 bullet points, or 200 words, or one-page, or double-sided page to y'know the regular 14 rulebooks + some setting information in a monthly-salary-priced leatherbound set.

doppelgreener

@eimyr And a lot of them are free! Or pay-what-you-want including free.

eimyr

Indeed.

Also, they are usually written by regular people.

doppelgreener

what?

eimyr

2:05 PM

Not some greybearded grognards of immeasurable arcane powers.

doppelgreener

oh

huh

you learn a new thing every day

eimyr

@doppelgreener LOL

Though admittedly I'm undecided yet whether @BESW has any arcane powers.

Brian

It is all capitalized. That says something.

eimyr

HEY!

Just because I'm too lazy to capitalise my nickname it doesn't mean I don't have any!?

Tophandour

Apparently I have one whole arcane power :p

doppelgreener

2:12 PM

i have -- aw man

if i capitalise it will i get... 13 arcane power? (is that a good amount of arcane power to have? or ludicrously bad?)

nitsua60

@eimyr it's because you haven't taken the plunge to become EMBT =)

doppelgreener

@nitsua60 Ei-Myr the Beautiful Thaumaturge?

Brian

13% sounds good. That's why statistics is such a fun subject.

nitsua60

@doppelgreener that would work. I was thinking of Eimyr's Meandering Black Tentacles, personally.

doppelgreener

Eimyr Might Blunder Transmutations (don't hire him for those)

eimyr

2:19 PM

@nitsua60 I... don't know what EMBT is...

OH

didn't read that one last one

I thought it's like EMT, but with more B

Brian

So regular people write roleplaying games for free on the internet. How many oximorons does that statement have?

nitsua60

@Brian 1. "regular people"

Tophandour

Meandering black tentacles...

I've seen enough... eh... nevermind...

Brian

2. Regular people and roleplaying

Tophandour

Does anyone else forget what regular people are like? I do sometimes...

Brian

2:24 PM

I think they have 2.4 kids

Tophandour

I'm always surprised when I visit someone's house and I see a 2/5 of a child

but I guess that's an average thing

eimyr

@Brian No, these are average people.

regular people have regular meals, for example

Brian

ahhh and regular bowel movements

Tophandour

and regular expressions

Brian

So if you are regularly on the internet, does that count as an XP towards being regular?

Tophandour

2:28 PM

Idk, the system that I roleplay my life in doesn't have XP

Brian

From Roll f. Shoes: The skill must be a subset of what happened to you in the action (Say, Athletics 2 if you were climbing a wall,

Isn't Climbing a wall a subset of Athletics and not visaversa?

doppelgreener

oh

eh, you were climbing a wall, you were probably using athletics to do it, so athletics is a subset of what happened, go take athletics.

you can now use athletics 2 to do things like climb walls, jump, and other athletic things.

Brian

Ahhh, got it

nitsua60

@doppelgreener but then if you advance that, it gets scoped down, right?

Like: using athletics 2 to leap a chasm and getting all 6s might allow me to create the "leaping 3" skill?

doppelgreener

@nitsua60 no. because you might use Athletics to pull off a stunt that's so impressive it makes peoples' jaw drop and they think you're pretty cool now. You roll sixes or spend XP, now you have Professional Impresser 3.

Brian

2:33 PM

Guess we could defer to the GM. :)

nitsua60

NEVER!

Brian

LOL

doppelgreener

Then you use Professional Impresser to become a Savvy Diplomat 4. And then you use Savvy Diplomat 4 to become a Secret Stealer 5.

There's no "scope down" necessarily.

nitsua60

okay... it's more the effect that the action has on the narrative that determines the "scope" of the new skill.

Brian

and if you're being athletic while stealing, you can have athletics 6?

doppelgreener

2:35 PM

@Brian probably! i mean you already have that skill at 2, the rules are, as you can see, silent on upgrading/replacing skills. it's more fun to branch out anyway.

Tophandour

In my group, the skills became more and more narrow to the point where someone got Cleave Wings 5. She was concerned that it was too specific, but the game had gone on for a long time so it was wrapping up anyway.

doppelgreener

At heart, Roll for Shoes is just fun game made to have a silly and amusing time. It's very good at spiralling out of anyone's control. Don't analyse it too hard, say "yes" to things in favour of whatever has people have fun.

Tophandour

"When am I ever going to use Cleave Wings again?" "You aren't, we're wrapping up after this fight"

doppelgreener

(unless you want otherwise. I've looked seriously at using RFS for a grim zombie game, but it's one that would be destined to expand beyond anyone's control, including the GM's.)

Brian

So when you have Steal 5, you need to roll 5 natural 6's to succeed?

Tophandour

2:37 PM

no, you just beat opposed roll to succeed

doppelgreener

@Brian Rolling natural 6's is used to level up, not succeed. (You alternately spend 1 XP for each dice that wasn't a natural 6.)

Tophandour

to level up you need nat 6's or spend xp to turn dice into 6's

Brian

Ohhh,

So you will succeed but you won't get Pick Locks 6

doppelgreener

probably! but if you've failed a few times you might have XP saved up. so you roll...

5d6

Dice Service

•

doppelgreener

2:40 PM

I got 3 + 5 + 1 + 1 + 6 = 16 on my roll, hopefully that beat whatever the opposition was. If I wanted to get a new skill out of whatever it was I was doing, I'd have to spend 4 XP to cover those non-6 dice. (This won't have anything to do with my roll.)

you might notice it doesn't really tell you much about how to handle opposition, and there's different ways to do it

Sometimes you as the GM will have a "The World" character which just develops skills in response to the PCs (and accumulates a lot of XP for opposing them fairly regularly and probably losing a lot!). Sometimes you'll have actual NPCs. Sometimes you'll use various rules to determine a number of dice to roll without any characters to leverage.

Some games I've just used one of those approaches, other games I've used a mix as it came up as necessary. (I had a World character, and at some point felt it necessary to add another character for something.)

One thing you can do is put down 2d6 as a "default", then describe something that makes the task harder, and put down another d6 as you do, and repeat for however many things make it harder. Also, go through things that make it easier, and remove a d6 for each one. The players can say these things and prompt d6's to get added/removed. (In my group there's no particular bias toward making your own tasks easier, people will suggest things we know of that make them harder too.)

Then you roll whatever d6's you're left with. Might be one, five, ten, who knows.

Brian

Cool, we usually resort to other tabletop when key players are out (Munchkin, Caverns, etc) If it's not a key player, they just go to the Kelkirk zone.

I'll try to set up a RFS game instead

doppelgreener

Oh yeah. Our group does that.

Our group's games have turned into an episodic structure, so that each session, there's a new mission and the characters present are sent out to do it, so it's very rare that a "key player" is even a thing we can miss. Still, there's been plenty of times there's only been 3 of us or the GM hasn't felt up to it or so on, or we're actually at a story point where there is a key player.

At those times we've played a lot of different microgames, like Great Ork Gods (a game where you play as orks and their gods who hate them), Lady Blackbird, Lasers & Feelings, Monster of the Week, Cthulhu Dark, etc

A couple of times we've used another system entirely for a one-shot in our main storyline that just needed to work in the way that system would help it work.

Brian

3:00 PM

I forsee that in the epic quest I'm running, there will be a time when the characters will need to jump planes (in their quest for the old gods) and each time they jump, I will jump to a different system so their characters will be the closest equivalent in that new system. It will require a lot of pre-planning though.

doppelgreener

sounds like fun :D

Tophandour

I can't wait to wrap up my current campaign... Been going on for 2 years and I've grown a lot as a DM since it started. I've got such good ideas for the next one that just won't fit into this one

This campaign I set it up as this grand world-spanning adventure, next campaign I'm planning on being more localized and having more focus on getting to know a certain local area and its characters. It's a scale and pacing thing

Can't really implement those things now; the party is rushing to save the world and won't hardly stop to sleep, much less get to know random villagers

doppelgreener

@Tophandour speaking as someone with an unfulfilled campaign idea or two: if you have more ideas than you have time to run, take the meatiest bits of a campaign idea and see if you can make it into a one-shot or a miniseries of sessions.

Tophandour

I can wait for the couple of months that it will take to wrap up

the party is level 16 right now. I'm planning on ending at 20 and I have level-ups set at different story points. They'll be 17 when they finish the dungeon that they're in (probably next session) and then 18 after then next dungeon

last two levels will be from getting up to the big bad, confronting him, seeing that he has some tricks left even after he's vanquished, then finishing him off in a climactic level 20 battle

it's 5e so after they save the world I'll give them their epic-level feat that will be their character's legacy

next campaign will be 300 years in the future, so their characters will be historical figures and will have some effect on certain aspects of the world. If they choose immortality they might still be somewhere in the world

I'm just excited for those level 1 challenges again

being scared of wolves in the forest, worrying about bandits

doppelgreener

3:20 PM

(despite this being an engaging topic, it is past 1am and my brain seems to be going to sleep before i do, so i had better follow suit and go to bed)

goodnight! :)

Tophandour

Good night!

Brian

Nice meeting you, Doppelgreener

Momonga-sama

It is so funny when you realise how many people around the world are there, when they say goodnight and no evening yet :D

Brian

Yes, still morning here

eimyr

3:36 PM

It's a very diverse bunch, that's for sure.

Momonga-sama

It pissess me off when correct answers get downvotes. What the hell.

-1

A: How does one gain vampiric powers without becoming a vampire?

Both following templates doesn't change you to undead, however some turning undead might give you penalties. Katane (template) from Dragon #313 p. 62 Cursed with a thirst for living blood and possessed of awful powers befitting creatures of the night, katanes are some of the more common hal...

And not even stating what is wrong with the answer.

What the hell...

Miniman

@Momonga-sama I can see one obvious reason why someone might downvote, and one extremely obvious reason why they wouldn't explain why.

> a vampire can feed their blood a human in order to give them some of the vampires' powers

Which neither of the methods in the answer resemble.

Momonga-sama

Read what is before

As an example.

eimyr

Correct not always equals to good.

Miniman

@Momonga-sama Yes, I can see that. I'm just hazarding a guess as to a motivation for downvoting.

@Momonga-sama And given your agressively defensive response to the closing of the question, it's easy to see why they wouldn't leave a comment.

Momonga-sama

3:44 PM

@Miniman Excuse me? I got nervous because the question has been understood ina different way.

Miniman

As a final comment, consider that a question that has been closed once and edited twelve times is probably not being understood by everyone precisely as it's being understood by you.

eimyr

@Momonga-sama I can see you're getting quite upset when your answers are downvoted. I would normally recommend such a person a glass of cold water and acceptance of one's fallibility, but I'd like to say something different this time. There are lots of correct answers which are not useful. There are also lots of correct answers which do not answer the question asked. There are also correct and relevant answers, which are worded in a way that RPG.SE does not support.

nitsua60

@eimyr There are answers which may or may not be correct; it's hard for the reader to understand. (But I guess that's one type of "not useful" answer, I suppose.)

eimyr

@Momonga-sama Any combination of these might be a reason for downvotes. In the past I received downvotes for a variety of reasons, sometimes on highly scoring answers. I also received upvotes on answers that were clearly incorrect. The key is to graciously understand that someone might not like your answer for whatever reason and that this person also might have a point.

Momonga-sama

Okey, I revised the question once again to make it more clear.

eimyr

3:50 PM

@Momonga-sama A downvote is also not a personal slight or insult, it's not targeted at the writer. It's a tool to distinguish between good answers and bad answers and that's it. And just like people writing answers might be wrong, the people who vote might be wrong. Or maybe it's you who's wrong. That's why we have the voting system, to let the community decide.

6

Brian

As a newbie here, would like to know why I get down voted simply so I can learn what I am am doing wrong. As far as I can see, the system does open itself up to being misused.

Miniman

@Momonga-sama I get the impression the question title is the main focus of your question - you may want to include it in the body of your question, since the title is primarily used as a label rather than as actual question content.

Momonga-sama

I know, however I think that whenever you downvote you would have to post a comment.

Brian

Some members have been very helpful in teaching me how to properly word answers

eimyr

It is good practice to leave comments indeed. It helps all parties. Comment arguments don't help, usually, and as we saw recently, "my opinion vs your opinion" discussions are specifically avoided through the voting system.

@Brian It comes with time and experience. I sometimes want to burninate my early answers.

@Brian Misuse of the system would weakly imply malevolence, but that's not something present at this stack. We are a very friendly, open community, even if sometimes there is a screech, we feel self-moderation is the way to go.

nitsua60

3:55 PM

@Momonga-sama , @Brian That's a very common sentiment, even among long-time and/or high-rep users. Plenty of meta ink shed on that one. I've finally come around to the idea that I'll always get at least one downvote, and it's nice that sometimes I get a comment that helps me understand it.

Brian

I know there is one member that down votes because their opinion is that a GM should never "penalize" a character because of a player's actions. So when an answer mentions that as an option, he/she down votes. That's a difference of opinion and shouldn't be used to down vote.

nitsua60

(Okay, I'm failing at linking properly, sorry. But that last line of mine was directed at any saying "downvotes should have comments")

Miniman

@Brian It's your opinion that that's not a legitimate reason to downvote. But the whole point of the voting system is that it doesn't matter much why people downvote or upvote, as long as there are plenty of people voting.

Brian

I don't get up set over it. A few down votes don't really change my overall status.

eimyr

@Brian I commend your attitude. Indeed it's a crowd magic so we encourage people to vote lots and early and often and all the time and...

nitsua60

3:58 PM

@Brian "should" and "shouldn't" get tricky. If one really believes that to be bad, bordering on harmful, advice who am I to say that "shouldn't" generate a downvote? I do get the say in exactly one instance: my own downvote which I am free to cast or not in response to that advice.

Imagine the case where a home-wiring question gets an answer saying: "just grab both sides--you'll figure out whether the circuit's live." Plenty of electricians have survived long careers using their manual voltmeters. Plenty of others might downvote that on sight. I don't agree that "player punishment" is that level of "harmful" but I'm not going to tell someone who does think so that they're wrong in any objective sense.

Brian

I understand all that. However, if reputation points were important to me, I might refrain from mentioning in future answers anything that hints on repercussions to the character. Which would stilt future answers.

eimyr

Again, the key is to hold your ideals higher than Internet Points.

Brian

but I'm not a munchkin. :)

@eimyr, agree

I haven't played D&D since early e2. I wonder if I should give it another try. Are people warming up to e5? I hear a lot still play e3.5.

and Pathfinder is supposed to be very similar to 3.5 also, correct?

Momonga-sama

4:29 PM

Welp, D&d 3.5 may be broken easily.

Pathfinder is more balanced, I think.

Tophandour

I love 5e personally

I played with a group that would either get lost in the depth of 3.5 and freak out and then not want to play anymore because they were vastly underpowered compared to the players that I had that absolutely loved doing all of the research and work into making their characters powerful

I've been running a 5e campaign since the starter set came out, if that tells you anything

For my less research-oriented players, the relative simplicity is good for them

also easier on me as a DM because there aren't a million bonuses for me to know about to make sure that my players aren't accidentally cheating

Brian

Thanks. In your opinion, what's the #1 improvement?

Tophandour

@Brian over 3.5?

Momonga-sama

Well, I think that the disadvantage/advantage is the best thing that could happen.

Tophandour

4:44 PM

Yeah, the advantage/disadvantage instead of the myriad of +1, +2, etc bonuses

I literally had a spreadsheet for my archer in 3.5 to determine how much damage I did on my shots based on a ton of factors. It slowed down gameplay. Much simpler in 5e

Brian

Okay, I'll have to leaf through some books next time I visit the game store

Momonga-sama

On 3rd of June I will be running a Dungeon World game on Roll20Con. Would someone be interested? :)

Brian

5:18 PM

Will be working. Nice charity though

SevenSidedDie

5:28 PM

@Brian Or just grab the free PDFs.

Brian

5:45 PM

Thanks SevenSided

Tophandour

6:48 PM

Just noticed this scifi stack exchange question: scifi.stackexchange.com/questions/129299/…

From reading it, it seems like magic in my campaigns works in a similar manner (i.e. similar to programming)

unsurprising, I guess, since almost all of my friends are software developers

always fun when one of my party attempts to "hack" one of my world's magical "computers"

usually with horrible unintended results. It's no coincidence that there aren't many left...

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