I don't think it's actually changing the premise. It's addressing a misconception about the scope of RPGs.

A PF-specific answer is a useful solution to his problem.

And as Dark says, a non-PF-specific answer that would still be useful to PF won't be stopped by the PF tag...

the dude's saying "i'm happy with whatever rules, i just want to calculate fall damage" - but whatever rules apply are pathfinder-compatible, it's a pathfinder question, etc.

I will edit the question to reflect the PF system, and I'll write my answer shortly after.

...but a PF-specific useful answer IS discouraged by asking for non-PF-specific solutions.

If you want me to make the tag change I will.

To take the flak off you.

I think the question itself could use a touch-up to strengthen the fact it's asking for PF solutions. But a change of tags would be a good start

Just need to be able to write that answer, since the answer button is disabled.

editing the question is fine so long as it's getting to something the asker would want to know, and will be a question the asker would probably be happy to be the custodian of

if you're editing it into something that isn't necessarily what they'd care about, but your primary motivation is just getting the question reopened for its own sake, your motivation would be in the wrong place: questions don't need reopening or saving on their own.

you have an alternative as well, which is post your own self-answered question. my question about D&D 4e's planes was me doing exactly that, as a way to resolve the question I'd originally answered changing under my feet.

@doppelgreener [imagines King Kong carrying a blonde-wigged question in his fist up the side of the Empire State Building]

Also relevant in this case is the fact that the asker has refused to put the Pathfinder tag on the question himself, so he probably won't appreciate it being put on there for him.

blast :P

somehow king katamari does not seem to work so well in monochrome, without all the gaudy colours and the blush on his cheeks. i am considering going full colour with this avatar and breaking tradition.

@doppelgreener Gnoooomes!

Don't break tradition :P

the king of cosmos is spectacular no matter the chromatic scale

@Miniman To play Devil's advocate: the Stack regularly enforces edits that are displeasing to the original poster.

My takeaway is that this is interesting and complicated enough to take to meta, as the chat can't find a definitive ruling, policy, or precedent and chat shouldn't be the place these things are formed.

My takeaway is that editing a question so that it receives answers the author wasn't asking for is a no-no. In that case I'd promote the suggestion doppelgreener made: reformulate the question properly and post it yourself.

hello...?

[wave]

What's new?

[waves back] i have an opinion-based question, so I thought I'd see if anyone here cared to opine.

I have Opinions on many things!

:P yes, many people do.

so, my question: in d&d 3.pf and 5e (actually, one each), what's the most useless cantrip? I've got this idea for character who's a failed wizard (wizarding is a family tradition), and she has (finally) managed to master a single, totally-useless cantrip. But since I don't normally play spellcasters, I have no idea which cantrip would be the most useless.

I feel detect poison is the most useless core cantrip in 3.5.

In PF, I understand cantrips are at-will, which makes that one a lot less useless.

cool.

I don't know the other systems well enough to hold forth.

Thanks. That helps :)

is anyone else here at this hour?

Ish

You've come in at the back-end of a daily lull in chat activity.

ah, i see

These spells are cast like any other spell, but they are not expended when cast and may be used again.

its one of the few times i can get on these days - new work schedule and crappy home internet.

Chatters are most active during working hours. Right now Asia/Pacific folks have left the office and Americans are just barely arriving at work.

@BESW So no, not exactly at will: still need preparation. But yes, can be cast as much as they want, even if prepared once.

The chat info page has graphs of activity!

@MarcDingena but can you tell me which one you think is the most useless?

@BESW seems it would be useful if you're visiting a drow city though.

@doppelgreener Sure, it sounds useful.

@Alyksandrei Personally, I have only just started dipping into magic. I can have a look at the PF cantrips list though.

"His knife is poisoned." "That's the breadknife." "The bread is poisoned too." "Do they have antidotes here?" "Yes, but they're poisoned."

But it's a one-object-per-cast instantaneous-duration spell.

Hm... dipping into magic sounds.... good actually

When you have to dedicate the precious limited resource of spell slots on it... well, it's just not enough.

Yo

If it granted poison-detecting sight for a period of time, like detect magic or detect evil does, that'd be a lot better.

@MarcDingena they have some pretty cool-sounding spells. but i suffer from analysis paralysis...so i limit my spellcasting abilities

We have a zen archer monk who has dipped sorcerer for gravity bow :P

( wisdom based sorcerer of course )

@Mourdos I once saw a rogue dip into Wizard for access to spider climb.

@BESW Oh. Spell slots. Right. That would make it very useless.

so many useful spells ...

We have a rogue knife mistress who has dipped brawler for an animal compaion and flurrying instead of twf :P

...he perished in a tragic gunpowder-and-alchemists-fire incident, as a result of clinging to the ceiling directly above his target when he botched a roll.

Also, amatur swashbuckler, picking up underfoot (from the mouser archtype, with DM permission)

That underfoot panashe ability is amazing

sounds awesome

In our P6 game I made a paladin with 0 levels in paladin.

I keep forgetting he isn't a paladin, and I designed him

That is a very good way to make a paladin.

Gish cleric?

He is Mutagenic Brawler 1 / Armoured Hulk Barbarian 1 / Crusader Cleric of Strength 1

@Alyksandrei What about Drench? It sounds like it's useless at first, something your wizard could be laughed at about. But later it could be useful when a barn fire or an electricity oriented monster threatens the village?

He flurries with a greatsword

using Crusaders flurry

He plans on leveling barbarian more

A dwarf in stoneplate, his mutagen is literally just acid and rocks

I think there is zinc ore in there somewhere

@MarcDingena hmmm...sounds pretty useless, but I don't know if it'd fly with any of my DMs. This character would be used for one-shots, with an unknown DM (we take turns DMing, and we never know who's going to run what)

What are the requirements for selecting the cantrip?

Prestidigitation

simple as :P

Simple because you take a penalty when negotiating with high born if you look like you just climbed out the sewers :P

well, generally speaking anything in "core" is acceptable; anything else is subject to DM approval, but it has to happen at the table with no time to rebuild/reselect.

I saw a wonderful article on what prestidigitation could do

Prestidigitation, as @Mourdos suggests, is part of the core rules of PF, and is equally useless.

community.wizards.com/content/forum-topic/2444891

@MarcDingena I disagree Prestidigitation can be lots of fun XD

Prestidigitation: for when you forgot to make all the wires on your bomb red.

Fun, yes. Useful, not really.

I like to turn the parties fighters cloths hot pink and make him smell like roses and taste like Snozberries

I've seen it well argued that you could use it to make clothes damp, to give 1 point of fire resistance for 1 round

"Prestidigitation lacks the power to duplicate any other spell effects" makes it very hard to maintain realism in situations like that.

Which 3.5 doesn't really care about, but would like you to think it does.

Hehe

You should, for example, be able to mimic various nauseating/lose-your-turn type spells with an appropriately vile-tasting application of prestidigitation to a guard's water canteen.

But the spell can't do that. Because it's just not allowed to.

A friend of mine beat a challenge several levels above his party - they were supposed to run - using prestidigitation.

They were being hunted by a couple of enormous skeletons in a very small cave. (At least, once it also had a couple of enormous skeletons in it.)

but that makes it sound so useful if your caster/player can just get creative enough!

Creative application of minor illusion-type spells can be VERY powerful.

The only other thing in the cave was a magic circle written on the ground in blood they'd discovered earlier.

I do mostly use prestidigitation to make rations taste nice and make my clothes clean

But then I also summon fire elementals in the evenings and tell them to hold the kettle

I once had a level 24 party running scared from three CR 10 witches because of judicious application of illusion magic.

... So my player, playing his bard, said he wanted to use prestidigitation to clean a section of the ritual circle.

Illusions always get into arguments with people though

Specific, "interact with"

Cleaning things is not one of the illusory effects of the spell; things actually get cleaned. The magic circle got broken. Skeletons collapsed. The magic circle exploded. Most party members got concussed but everyone survived.

I gave two archers a will save because the mage used simple illusion to create darkness in front of their tower wndows.

(They baited the witches into a fight with a CR 20 balor, expecting the ensuing combat to wipe out one side and leave the other severely weakened. The balor took all three out with a free action.)

Hehe

@Aaron knows about silly fights with a Balor

After spending 10 levels running scared from these three witches who could never have bested the party in straight combat, it was good Worf Moment to boost the balor's rep.

Oh you mean when you guys pretty much one shot a balor? Or did you paralyze him?

He fell asleep - no save

"pick up a random rock, clean it up with the spell, and give it whatever flavor you want, and just lick the stone for the following hour or so. " - Literal rock candy

@Mourdos Roll a will save to keep remembering NOT to bite the tasty rock and break your teeth

"I soil their rations"

accidentally swallowing small rocks is good for your digestive system! (if you're a cow)

* makes the rock taste like beef *

@doppelgreener There is a spell for that

Nail soup anyone?

"Oh darn I swallowed a rock. Better turn into a cow for awhile" Sigh

#justwizardproblems

Not druid problems?

#justspellcasterproblems

There was an old lady who swallowed a fly, I don't know why she swollowed a... holy crap she turned into a spider!

#notmundanes #whydidtheypickthatclassanyway

#fightsmartnotstrong

I don't understand the premise of this joke... Use it to write the words "I prepared Explosive Runes today" in a prominent spot and sit back eating popcorn to watch the show.. Can someone explain? :P

@doppelgreener Oh I thought you were a new person for a sec.

@Aaron it's the new moustache, isn't it?

It's a reference to Order Of The Stick

V always writes I prepared explosive runes today as the triggering sentence for explosive runes.

Which reminds me, we once played in a parody campaign. There was a scroll rolled up in the middle of a circle of pit traps. We got the scroll.. and then all refused to read it. So we gave it to the barbarian.

gotta go - battery's dying and it's almost time to clock in. Thanks for the discussion - maybe i'll ask again tomorrow - I can stay later tomorrow.

ttfn

@MarcDingena are you familiar with the explosive runes spell itself?

I wasn't but I read how it works. But since the cantrip can't mimic Explosive Runes, what's funny to watch about people reading it? Is it just the reaction of them freaking out thinking it's a genuine explosive rune they just read?

Aye. It's a meta-invocation of paranoia.

That's exactly it.

See: the scene from Captain America with the dud grenade, for instance.

He's still short

I discovered a design flaw in how I was calculating gun prices. If anyone was interested in that stuff, I've updated the page: hyperion-voyages.obsidianportal.com/wikis/gun-template

We once, as level ~4 characters, bested a hydra via Ghost sound. The sounds of a female hydra coming from a canyon with very large boulders and an impressive Barbarian at the top.

I imagine prestidigitation could probably be used to similar effect. Also, hullo, everyone!

hi

I need to find the story where a bard killed a dragon with a level 1 spell.

My significant other was once in a party where the Tarrasque was vanquished via Otto's Irresistible Dance.

Yours sounds slightly more impressive, though. =3

There's a level one spell in Ghostwalk that can kill any creature with no save.

They just have to be willing to receive the spell.

It's up to GM fiat, but if you dominate or otherwise trick a creature into being willing, it's dead.

This was the spell

Story was the dragon had knocked out everyone in the party and was flying around the bard getting ready to finish him off and eat them. he cast this and the dragon failed it' save and fell from the sky falling down a canyon taking a lot of falling damage. The falling damage didn't kill it though but then the bard rolled the 1d6 damage the spell causes and THAT is what killed the dragon.

TL:DR Bard makes dragon laugh to death

Must've been a really good joke.

Except that spell doesn't do damage.

Hideous Laughter doesn't do damage, so unless this was a house rule or another edition or something like that, the dragon didn't "laugh to death".

if there was a river at the bottom the dragon could have drowned

@EmrysTernal Maybe there is an errata. goes to look

It's also possible that there was some kind of metamagic effect, or bard power that dealt damage like that.

There are ways to add damage to any spell, but I doubt that's what happened here.

Is anyone on that knows about 3.5 optimization? I saw someone mention "HoR" as a powerful spell in a comment, but I don't know what that means, and it's difficult to google such a short term.

I'm a CharOp

What was the context? If we can narrow down the spell list, that'll make it easier.

It may have been Hammer of Righteousness

It's powerful because it's a magic missile that does extra damage to evil creatures and does not have a caster level cap.

Oh, and non-evil clerics can cast it spontaneously.

oh, and it does dice of damage instead of adding bonus damage

per caster level

All around it's a pretty awesome spell.

@BESW I would but I am guessing those comments got deleted anyways

Heart of Earth possibly.

Er... E and R are different letters. Nevermind.

@EmrysTernal That's almost certainly what it was.

It was referred to as a no-save damage spell with no CL cap.

Well that's wrong. It's Fort Half

A common House Rule is to make it Will half.

no attack roll though

@TheOracle @waxeagle I think he's trying to use the Socratic Method on meta.

The Columbo method.

w...why is Novell's server painfully slow right now?

@Tritium21 because it's Novel?

my download speed of mono is being measured in byte per second.

tcp keepalives are faster

Novell still exists?

@SevenSidedDie They dont do Netware or IPX, but yes. They do.

I had to learn IPX the final year it was part of the CCNA program

@Tritium21 Ah, they were acquired, but not dismembered, looks like.

@SevenSidedDie when I first started this job, we actually used their mail program. Finally switched to something real a couple of years ago

The Wikipedia article's ToC outline of the history section is about right: NetWare, Decline, Linux, Stagnation, Microsoft, Outrage, Acquisition...

I only care about Novell in as much as they donated the servers to the Mono project

@Tritium21 Thanks for asking that question yesterday, I hit the rep cap with my answer.

@BESW YW

asking the question got me close vote privledges

Everyone wins!

(Only two more rep caps 'til the Epic badge!)

for a second i though @SevenSidedDie only got epic 4 days ago. no... its his 1 year anniversary of being epic

@Tritium21 I'm working on Legendary, but KRyan is almost certain to get there first, and well-earned too.

he has it

got it yesterday

oh wow, congrate to @KRyan!

rpg.stackexchange.com/help/badges/27/legendary

(Ironically, the one badge I really want is only silver, and also impossible to get on RPG.se, because we don't have enough high-question-count tags for generalist to be awarded.)

@Tritium21 Hey, there it is! Congrats, @KRyan!

@BESW Two caps can go really quickly when you're on a roll. That Epic badge is all but yours. :)

Well, this time around the rep cap is not a steamroller.

(I actually just undermined it by downvoting a couple things.)

I haven't had overwhelming rep cap weeks since I stopped answering D&D questions regularly.

How do you find out how close you are to unlocking a badge like that?

Behold, a query someone else made!

Oh wow, I'm pretty high up there.

I wonder if that script counts days when you got 200+ because of association bonuses on other sites.

@BESW Apparently downvoting no longer counts against the cap. They found that it disincentivised downvoting too much for exactly the people they want exercising their judgement.

Ooer.

(Or at least, it doesn't count against the cap for the purpose of counting days where you've hit it. It still counts for the actual rep earned that day.)

Right.

this looks entirely answerable to me.

without opinion

granted, the answer is 'nothing special'

@Tritium21 Yeah. I think there's going to be a period of adjustment with 5e questions, since so often the answer is "that's up to your DM." It's tempting to say that it's going to draw primarily opinion-based answers, but I think we have enough people who know not to answer with opinions for a "ask your DM" question that closing isn't called for.

@Tritium21 Hey there. I declined that flag on the "don't answer in comments" comment. The trouble is that without such a comment, more answer-comments keep rolling in. (That was the second time that question had its comments cleared out, so a signpost seemed needed.) There's a bit of discussion about why those mod-comments are a necessary evil over here on meta.

I voted to keep open...

@Tritium21 Oh, sorry, my mistake. I misread the flag screen. It was just your question, not your flag. Never mind!