TRPG General Chat

lisardggY

2:24 PM

Maybe I'll play a Swashbuckler.

MadMAxJr

That's that hybrid one-handed fighter/gunslinger, right?

lisardggY

Yup.

I love the trope.

Mourdos

Except that its one handed piercing melee weapons

Not guns

MadMAxJr

Interesting.

Mourdos

I think if you have levels in gunslinger, they combine your panache and grit pool

Metool

2:26 PM

@lisardggY Multiclass bard/sorcerer, or "bard or sorcerer"?

MadMAxJr

Yeah, there's a sidebar that talks about that.

Mourdos

d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/sword-and-pistol-combat

MadMAxJr

I have the advanced class book in my bag here, I haven't had a chance to read it in depth.

Aaron

God. I think my allergy medicine isn't the non groggy type. I am sleepy as hell.

Mourdos

I've had a ready though. In general, I'm disappointed.

The Arcanists is arguably more powerful than a wizard. A lot of the classes suffer from being underpowered. I think the BloodRager and the Brawler are decent.

lisardggY

2:27 PM

@Metool Bard and sorcerer. I'm fine with keeping track of spell slots expended or panache points, but any build or class that requires a lot of bookkeeping or planning (and that includes non-spontaneous spellcasters, usually) isn't what I'm after.

Mourdos

And one other, that I can't recall off the top of my head.

lisardggY

I don't really care for over/under powered, since it's a one-shot character.

Mourdos

Personally, I like witch.

Yes it has prepared spells, but mostly you use hexes

Skald is fun if you have a party of melee characters

MadMAxJr

I want to sit and read the Skald..

Mourdos

and the bloodrager is a barbarian sorcerer

Skald is as follows: Bard spells and the ability to grant a lesser version of rage by singing (including rage powers every 3rd level)

That is pretty much the Skald.

Hilarious when combined with the master summoner and Lesser Spirit Totem

lisardggY

2:29 PM

I've played bards before. I want something new.

MadMAxJr

So a Viking story-teller/warrior would certainly be a Skald. Excellent.

wax eagle

@MadMAxJr just to confirm, you're in tonight?

Mourdos

I've always liked the inquisitor

MadMAxJr

@waxeagle yeah, I should be good for tonight.

Mourdos

What level @lisardggY

lisardggY

2:30 PM

@Mourdos 2nd.

Maybe a Brawler. That can be fun.

Mourdos

HAHAHA. They updated the swashbuckler

they now get weapon finess at level 1

Might I recommend this for a low level character?

d20pfsrd.com/classes/hybrid-classes/swashbuckler/archetypes/…

You get to fire your musket, and then drop it and attack with a rapier

You miss on out practically nothing

and it gives you the most important gunslinger deed, quick clear :P

lisardggY

Firearms are meh for me.

Not really the tropes I like in fantasy.

MadMAxJr

Updated? There's already an FAQ/errata for it?

lisardggY

Maybe just go for a stabby-stabby rogue.

d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/rogue/archetypes/…

Anyway, I must be off. Thanks for the ideas. I'll try to mix and match them. :)

MadMAxJr

I kinda liked the scout archetype rogue.

sneak attack on the charge!

Joshua Aslan Smith

2:44 PM

tryign to decide if that DM buy in quesetion shoudl be closed

MadMAxJr

Hmmm.

Mourdos

I think its a legitimate concern. But the answer is basically "talk to your group"

wax eagle

yeah, but you could sum up a few dozen of our questions into that. Some ideas re: how people handle this wouldn't hurt him

Mourdos

In that case, it seems legit.

The Oracle

0

Q: Should 5e no longer be verboten in the main chat?

Around the release of the starter kit and the PHB any extended discussion of 5e was banned from the main chat room due to some contentious conversations basically crowding out everything else. In the months since I believe heads have cooled and no one really seems to be having big debates anymore...

Lord_Gareth

3:07 PM

@waxeagle Thanks for getting my guy into chat.

wax eagle

no prob

Zachiel

@Lord_Gareth You're awake. Go answer that Samsara question.

(:p)

Lord_Gareth

@Zachiel I will destroy all you love. I'm nursing an extradimensional headache

Zachiel

You'd destroy pretty nothing but myself, and I'm not even sure of that. Anyway, I wanted to look pretemptiously commanding but I'm actually not. People have lives, and that includes you.

Joshua Aslan Smith

@Mourdos I just think there isnt anything there for requirements for a good answer

Phil

3:19 PM

@JoshuaAslanSmith agreed, as demonstrated by one of the answers which is yes, no and/or maybe

MrLemon

I started typing an answer and started with "It depends"

MadMAxJr

@Lord_Gareth Choose the form of the destructor.

Lord_Gareth

@MadMAxJr Pinkie Pie

MadMAxJr

And then New York was destroyed by a colossal party cannon.

6

MrLemon

3:39 PM

That sounds like a weird twist on a CoC campaign...

Now I wonder what happens if you make a campaign where every plotpoint and npc is taken as suggested after asking for them on 4chan...

Zachiel

@MrLemon You could probably play that game in F.A.T.A.L. and lose... ugh, gain nothing.

MrLemon

@MadMAxJr This post also needs to be starred for people to read out of context...

@Zachiel I thought that game was not to be named?

Zachiel

I don't care.

Lord_Gareth

@MrLemon Ghostbusters, dude

MadMAxJr

Yay! Like OMG the destruction of the innocent, civilization and culture, will totally make way for an AWESOME PARTY!

The party whistle emits a deafening blast, shattering windows across most of the industrial sector. Admittedly it did end up being a party that nobody forgets.

Lord_Gareth

4:13 PM

And here we see a demonstration of the average forum debate on the Paizo boards: paizo.com/threads/…

Note the wild Paizo Fan in his natural environment. Emboldened by his territorial advantage, he attacks a pack of System Masters, seeking to separate weaker prey from the group.

He stops up short when confronted by the System Masters' natural defenses, including Mathematics and Reasoned Debate. The pack bands together, leaving him with no opening.

Only time will tell if the wild Paizo Fan will bring home enough meat to feed his cubs

MadMAxJr

You forgot to put on your pith helmet for this.

Tarmikos11

Rejoice, fans, for I have returned from my Lonesome Vigil in the Land of "Union Pacific Automotive Distribution Yard."

[Coughs and gestures for rejoicing to commence]

Lord_Gareth

@Tarmikos11 See above for schadenfreude

Tarmikos11

Oh, I'm already looking.

MrLemon

@Lord_Gareth why would you even click on that post?

Lord_Gareth

4:24 PM

@MrLemon Because I am empowered by the suffering of others.

MrLemon

I mean, it's straight-out: Click here if you want to argue about Psionics, hopefully that will keep the other posts clear of discussions.

Lord_Gareth

@MrLemon My previous statement was not a joke.

MrLemon

All right :)

Time for me to leave you to your machinations now

Lord_Gareth

Have fun!

MadMAxJr

I can't follow the link from here but I see the word 'Psionics' in the link. Are they trying to argue 3pp products in Paizo's den again? In my experience that's like walking into the Vatican pointing at various things and citing that they're wrong.

And then The Knights of Monte Cook show up and it just gets bad from there.

Lord_Gareth

4:29 PM

@MadMAxJr No, a dude is trying to argue that 3.5 psionics is broken above and beyond 3.5 casting. I say "trying" because instead of using any metric of reasonable debate he's making claims he refuses to substantiate and then slitting his wrists when the other side has math

See also the statement on his part: "Haste is a wasted action."

Let that sink in for a moment

Bask in the profane horror of it

MadMAxJr

But.. Haste is an /extra/ action.

Lord_Gareth

Oh no, evidently in the choice between Haste and direct damage, DD wins

Somehow

(Pro tip: it doesn't)

Tarmikos11

If you're playing a Blaster, maybe, depends on how long you get to have the extra action for.

Lord_Gareth

@Tarmikos11 Minimum of 5 rounds, scales automatically with level, hits 1 friendly target per level

Tarmikos11

Also, that's one of those moments where if the Haste Spell gets Dispelled then you're gunna really hate whoever dispelled that.

Lord_Gareth

4:31 PM

So you hit 5 people for 5 rounds

Each gets an extra action

Tarmikos11

Damn. I retract my former statement.

Lord_Gareth

Plus AC, initiative, and save

Tarmikos11

Haste Wins.

Lord_Gareth

Haste is a really big contender for "best group buff in the game"

Tarmikos11

For a general group, fuck yeah.

Lord_Gareth

4:32 PM

It swaggers in at third level spells and remains relevant for the entire game

Even for a solo type, casting Haste on your summons is worth it

Metool

@Tarmikos11 Have you poked at skype chat?

Tarmikos11

@Metool Not just yet.

Lord_Gareth

And its evil twin Slow is nearly as handy

AC lowered, reflex saves lowered, halves enemy actions

Hits 1 target per level for 1 round per level

So 5 guys for 5 rounds at acquisition

All the ones that fail their saves are essentially dead

breathing, but dead

MadMAxJr

Haste was good in 2nd ed too, except the part that it aged you.

Tarmikos11

Jesus herbert walker Christ on a cracker.

Lord_Gareth

4:34 PM

And this guy's argument is that those spells are too poor to use

MadMAxJr

I'm sure they also believe that magic missile is a terrible combat spell for a staring caster too...

Metool

@MadMAxJr eck

eck eck eck

eck

Lord_Gareth

@MadMAxJr For blasting spells in general, MM isn't all that bad.

Tarmikos11

CLEARLY this man has never seen how saucy a wizard can get with magic missile.

Lord_Gareth

Against the general list of 1st level spells, it kinda loses out to Grease, Color Spray, Sleep, Mage Armor, Shield, and Protection from X

The trouble with MM isn't that it's a bad blast

It's that blasting sucks

Tarmikos11

4:37 PM

[Calmly goes in search of the Magic Missile Shotgun build I saw a while back]

I think it was something like that, at least.

Lord_Gareth

Also Power Word: Pain

Tarmikos11

It was predicated on the idea of getting something to the tune of 256 magic missiles out with a high enough spell slot.

MadMAxJr

I thought MM hard capped at like 5 shots?

Tarmikos11

Idunno, it might have been super cheese, but I think they either got magic missile down to being just shy of a free action, or found some combination of feats that resulted in that multiplying a bunch.

Lord_Gareth

Eh, needs more Surge of Fortune Shuffle

"Excuse me sir, I need you to take 1600 unresistable damage this round, then repeat it next round."

Tarmikos11

4:40 PM

I know it had a LOT to do with Metamagic feats, and back then I was newb-sauce so I was like "Wait, metamagic? What? I'm outtie. That's crazy tho."

Lord_Gareth

Mailmanslap.gif

MadMAxJr

I don't get this kind of stuff in my party. I get things like "Alchemist explosive arrow should only have to hit touch AC as it's the concussive blast that hurts, not so much the arrow impact."

You'd like for me to let your damage boosting arrow hit an even easier AC? /no/....

"But it's more realistic!"

Tarmikos11

I'd let that happen, then start giving HARD enemies ear muffs so they're resistant to sonic damage.

MadMAxJr

Let me gently put both hands on that word realistic, pick it up and put it on a table that is not our game table.

7

Tarmikos11

Snicker and smirk behind the screen.

They're going for Sonic Damage in that case, right?

Lord_Gareth

4:43 PM

@MadMAxJr I don't get it in my party either. But it's part of the game, and part of discussions about the balance and health of the overall game.

MadMAxJr

No. They want the explosive, concussive force of the arrow, like a tiny unguided rocket, to be the method of determining impact.

Lord_Gareth

Which brings us back to that whole "The plural of anecdote is not data" problem

Tarmikos11

Again. No.

They want that? I'm putting all the enemies they fight individually in padded armor.

MadMAxJr

I used to care about the overall health of the game. I actually did. But the 3.0/3.5 3pp apocalypse put an end to that. Now I only care about 'does this work at my table'.

Lord_Gareth

@MadMAxJr The vhat now?

MadMAxJr

4:46 PM

While the OGL brought us a lot of interesting good things, it also brought in a tidalwave of god awful, poorly written, hideously unbalanced 'D&D compatible' products

Tarmikos11

I thought the game was just a dead horse they were beating the Older-Cousin Model money out of at this point, which we were still gritting our teeth and pretending to smile about because we crave the escapism.

MadMAxJr

Like most of the things Mongoose Press put out with the word 'Complete [Class]'

And anything by Fast Forward Games

Tarmikos11

@MadMAxJr Speaking of "D&D Compatible" trash. The horrors of the Vow of Poverty have been explained to me.

Lord_Gareth

3pp doesn't get to influence the overall health of the game, though. They have to bow to the base system.

C. Ross

So, 5e.

Lord_Gareth

4:47 PM

Which is part of why I can't just fix crap in PF

MadMAxJr

It still caused disruptions at my table. "I bought this, it's compatible, why can't I use it?"

Lord_Gareth

@C.Ross Killitwithfire I mean yes, what about it?

Tarmikos11

@MadMAxJr "Because [snip] you, that's why."

Lord_Gareth

@MadMAxJr Huh. My players always asked my advice before they purchased a book. Guess I got lucky.

MadMAxJr

TLDR; The slew of products skewed the view of the core product in the social circles and game groups important to me. Your group may vary.

Because ha ha haa noooo your 'Chainflinger' monk that is basically a monk with 15 foot reach is so not happening at my table.

That was.. I want to say Mongoose Complete Monk 2 or 3.

Tarmikos11

4:50 PM

My group isn't particularly interested in 3pp, then again, two of them are fairly new, and one's never even played D&D in his life.

MadMAxJr

I had to teach my party that while they can optimize to be one-shot killbeasts that end combats the round they start, if they never experience any challenge at the table, they will find it impacts fun, suspense, and story.

Tarmikos11

The two "vets" in my group are aware that I'm new to DM'ing, so either they're not pulling much BS on me yet, or are doing it under my nose and making me kinda paranoidnowhelpmefindhi-opbardandroguebuildsohmygod.

Metool

@Tarmikos11 I am always here if you need a sheet-checker.

MadMAxJr

@C.Ross What of 5E?

Tarmikos11

I haven't seen anything of concern yet, but if they start pulling Masterwork tools out of nowhere I'm gunna be pissed.

MadMAxJr

4:59 PM

So yeah, I'm sure there's overall concerns for the health of PF in general, but short of making your own system (with hookers and blackjack!) I don't see any dramatic change ever occurring. I just make the game work at my table, because that's as far as my influence needs to go.

Aaron

5:29 PM

I can't find a link. What was the article being talked about on the starred comment "See also the statement on his part..." by Gareth?

Tarmikos11

My influence pretty much only needs to extend to not taking trap options.

MadMAxJr

@Aaron Few lines before that, he links the paizo forums

Aaron

@MadMAxJr Oh. I must have missed it. I looked. Goes back

AH found it.

it twas hidden at the end of a sentence.

Mourdos

My DM can't be bothered to vet third party books, so we have a strict "Paizo only" rule. Apparently, this is because paizo make balanced content. I should help him rethink this.

Lord_Gareth

@Mourdos I have a large supply of weasels, rabies, and staplers for you.

3

Mourdos

5:33 PM

xD

To be fair, some of the thrid party stuff is pretty stupid.

Lord_Gareth

@Mourdos Oh of course

Not arguing that at all

It's just that Paizo's own standards aren't actually any better :p

Mourdos

They didn't make the Taskshaper

Metool

Taskshaper?

Lord_Gareth

@Mourdos They did make the Arcanist.

Mourdos

I believe thats the class that lets you mimic and feat you have seen and meet the prerqs for?

MadMAxJr

5:35 PM

... Is that some kind of middle-management class?

Mourdos

This is true

Metool

They didn't make the Draconic Exemplar, which is a point against them.

Tarmikos11

They also didn't make the Factotum. My second Favorite Class ever.

Mourdos

We just spent 30 minutes in game for one of the characters to execute two prisoners.

Metool

Oh, is that so? Why half an hour?

Mourdos

5:38 PM

No rolls yet.

Lord_Gareth

Mind you, if we want to talk stupid 3pp content for Pathfinder

Mourdos

Because the game goes slowly.

Lord_Gareth

I think Owen Stephens and his Dragonrider class takes the cake

Mourdos

Very slowly.

Lord_Gareth

"Let's take Summoner, then change nothing except to give it full saves and buff the pet."

Mourdos

5:39 PM

I like this idea.

MadMAxJr

Ha ha haaaa no.

Mourdos

Can I combine it with master summoner?

Or synthesist !

I AM the dragon

Lord_Gareth

It's already Synthesist

Except you can still cast

Mourdos

Well, I need to design two characters. One witch for Aaron's game. Which is mostly there, except being written down (anyone else read spheres of power yet?)

and another for a 3.5 underdark game which is more like multiple solo adventures in which the players might decide to group up.

Metool

@Mourdos Waddup.

Mourdos

5:41 PM

You have fun with it?

I'm playing a Shadow in the underdark game. Using a three level base class (which comes with HD)

Metool

@Mourdos Not just yet. Pondering sticking it on Iry for that delicious Life sphere.

(Unfortunately he has no spells to replace, so I need to dig with feats, and he's already feat-starved.)

Mourdos

Which leads to the question. If I have three levels in becoming a shadow (and don't gain incorporeality until level 10) and have one level left, how do I make best use of my shadow draining touch attack?

Would it work with a monk's unarmed?

Lord_Gareth

In all seriousness @Mourdos, try approaching your DM between sessions with some quality 3pp content. Not to toot own horn but DSP's stuff can make a good example. The native forums have a treatise on why Psionics is not broken.

@Metool can educate you further

Gareth awaaaaaay

Metool

Ahoy.

MadMAxJr

And then Gareth returned to his home planet.

Mourdos

5:46 PM

Hehe

Metool

(He died on the way there, and promptly reappeared by his phylactery of raeg.)

Mourdos

So, build suggestions for an ECL 4 character who is taking this: minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=7952.0 ?

MadMAxJr

.. Would not surprise me if Gareth has a phylactery. Probably a muffin.

Aaron

@Metool Did you ping me on this? I got a ping on it

Metool

@Aaron Maybe I did. What of it?

Aaron

5:53 PM

The ping thing has been spazzing on me a bit so just wanted to check.

Metool

@Mourdos Ability spread?

Mourdos

Let me see if i can find it.

Mourdos

6:06 PM

its 32 point buy

I had to go back to a skype conversation I left a month ago to find that >.>

Someone suggested monk, for wis to ac and cha to ac, and a level of marshal for the aura

No idea how far or long this game will run for

Metool

What are the goals you're looking to accomplish?

Mourdos

I'm not really sure. I'd like a high sense motive (due to it being in the underdark) but I kind of failed to have any concept in mind when I said "playing a shadow would be cool"

I'm not really sure what to do with the lost levels. Otherwise I would play a spellcaster of some type.

hahaha

Yo @JoshuaAslanSmith

@mourdos yoz

6:12 PM

@Metool if I said create a shadow empire, would that be too bad of a pun?

I wonder if thrallherd is appropriate. I should go read up on it

Metool

This may or may not be of interest to you.

Woop, fixed.

Tarmikos11

Alright my wonderful people, I'mma hit the sack.

Mourdos

Any recommendations for a class from there?

Hmm, only two

Death Knight is fun, but not quite right for an already undead being

C. Ross

How about that lack of magic item economy in 5e? Anyone have mid level experience with that yet?

wax eagle

6:29 PM

not yet, my first campaigns are both going to end at 5

couple guys are running HOTDQ though....but it doesn't actually have many items in it until way late

Joshua Aslan Smith

Ive been fielding questions about it even with the starter

party has wanted to buy a bunch of potions with all the loot they have

Im like theres only enough for 1 each, itll be a week or 2 before they get restocked from the big city

but basically yeah, you cant just fence anything you finds on the DM to actually pick out magic itemsstory...

y could use. Less randomization, more story...

Mourdos

@Metool Sorry. While that looks cool, I don't think it fits

Aaron

Man the answers on this question make people seem shallow. I wish it hadn't been closed. I kinda want to comment saying not everyone is as shallow as everyone is saying.

Joshua Aslan Smith

eh its pretty functionary most of the time

really its in the tone, not the words

I say hi, how are you/hows your day all the time to co-workers because its the polite, accepted way to greet someone

nobody expects a "real answer"

Aaron

6:45 PM

Right but still.

pppppbbbbt.

Joshua Aslan Smith

basically beyond tone think of the relationship you have with said person

empty phrases like that only mean as much as the relationship means

so if your boss asks you it, he means it only professionally, he may even be fishing for a work related response "good, finished that document for X."

Aaron

Yea. Your right. It just rubs me wrong for some reason

Aaron

7:36 PM

Hehehe imgur.com/gallery/xM5dH

Joshua Aslan Smith

so if your boss asks you it, he means it only professionally, he may even be fishing for a work related response "good, finished that document for X."

sorry that didnt send when I worked on it lol]

Aaron

I see it. You sent it twice

wax eagle

this is awesome: theilluminerdy.com/2014/09/18/…

d20monkey illustrated monsters by CR

Joshua Aslan Smith

dat spector

wax eagle

lol yeah

Joshua Aslan Smith

7:50 PM

downloaded!

wax eagle

Feng Shui continues to grow at a ridiculous rate.

Joshua Aslan Smith

huh

wax eagle

57k now

second pin on the sidebar ->

I jumped in for the PDF, it looks interesting

Joshua Aslan Smith

haha

Aaron

Sounds interesting that is for sure

lisardggY

8:04 PM

I'm debating whether to go for the PDF or spring for a more costly level.

BESW

10:28 PM

@Lord_Gareth Epic level 30 wizard/cleric who auotquicken 3 spells per turn casts maximised time stop... and hastes himself.

@Arrowfar Hi.

user116848

@BESW hi! How are you?

BESW

Not bad. What's up?

user116848

I am good, thanks.

user116848

I usually hang around English SE chat but there was no there so I thought I should see other sites too :p

BESW

Well, welcome!

Do you have any experience with tabletop RPGs?

user116848

10:51 PM

Sadly, no. But RPG games sound fun!

BESW

This is a rather slow time of day for the chat--it's most active when the US time zones are at work--and I'm distracted by statting up enemies for tomorrow night's game.

user116848

Yeah sure. See ya! pal :)

rockbeatspaper

Super excited for my first real session (pathfinder) as a dm. Can't wait the two weeks.

BESW

I'm so much happier in systems where balance isn't an issue...

@rockbeatspaper Cool.

doppelgreener

11:07 PM

(@Lord_Gareth psst rpg.stackexchange.com/q/48040/1204)

@BESW Good morning!

Miniman

@BESW Bloody US time zones...They make life so much more difficult for users of the Internet who are on the opposite side of the world.

BESW

Yes, well, I probably wouldn't be able to do DFAE with Aslan and Emrakul otherwise.

@doppelgreener I really wish I could consult you on this Saturday's encounter design.

doppelgreener

11:39 PM

@Lord_Gareth fascinating... [peeks over shrubs, takes notes]

@BESW I wish you could too! Bah! I need to be like Multiple Man or something: have two of me, one playing and the other helping you, combine after the campaign is over.

BESW

You should get to work on that.

Miniman

@doppelgreener When you find a way to do that, let me know how so I can play in a HotDQ campaign without having any prior knowledge.

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