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1:19 AM
I'm not sure the comparison is entirely lucid.
 
@BESW it's not just me?
 
I mean, it's an interesting comparison, but poetics don't define the action of the reader.
 
oh gods.
Run!
Hey, @Magician, do we still have headache meds in the kitchen?
 
Oh, come off it. Obviously what you read can influence you, but unless you consider Shakespeare's sonnets as a mandate the comparison to game mechanics is flawed at best.
 
@BESW er?
I'm so confused.
or are you responding to Sam?
 
1:23 AM
I was, until you started the melodrama.
 
no, I actually have a headache, and my brain doesn't understand what either of you two are saying right now.
 
Heheh.
The raison d'être of game mechanics is to guide and influence the action of those using them, to somehow modify behavior.
 
(actually, given that my headache is getting wore, I'm going to formally check out now.)
 
Hope you feel better soon.
 
Odes have strophes and are used in praise, the epode combines the singers for the stropher and counter-strophe. That's a mechanical structure.
 
1:28 AM
Yes, but poetical mechanics doesn't have as its primary (and often sole) function the modification of behavior.
 
There's an improvisational, or voluntary element to RPG play; but, consider, word games have a voluntary nature (produce an epigrammic satire in iambic about [hated politician]) but still are influenced by the mechanics. An epigram isn't a 20th century political satire
The mechanics in poetry aim to produce results in the listener. The mechanics in RPG aim to produce results in the teller?
Actually that's useful. The Gazebo story is entirely about results produced in the "teller" of the next action.
The Tale of Eric and the Dread Gazebo is a role-playing game (RPG) anecdote, made famous by Richard Aronson (designer of The Ruins of Cawdor, a graphical MUD). Aronson's account first appeared in print in the APA Alarums and Excursions in either 1985 or 1986 (accounts vary). It was reprinted in Mensa's RPG APA, The Spell Book in 1987, from there (with one jump) to The Mensa Bulletin in 1988, and then it jumped to the internet. It has remained popular and been frequently plagiarized ever since. The tale features a player who is dumbfounded by the gamemaster's description of a nearby gazeb...
 
But the manner of the production is entirely different.
Game mechanics are generally designed to exploit human inclinations to optimize, and to respond to reward and punishment.
 
Ah, but that's what I want, an understanding of the manner of production from the media's mechanics. Not all of the mechanics. "Fluff" is a mechanic in this sense. If you overstuff a rulebook with fluff, what is the result?
 
Poetics, so far as I know, doesn't use optimization or reward/punishment functions.
And Eric and the Gazebo has nothing to do with mechanics at all.
 
I was trying to use the word "mechanics" to gesture at the meaning of "poetics" in literary aesthetics, without restricting the meaning to merely language-as-natural-language mechanical-operation-on-a-media's-devices.
Eric and the Gazebo is a useful story about description and "something-like-a-pun" at the game level.
A pit trap with reversed gravity and a well in the ceiling is a similar type of experience.
You describe something, and the players act on it, and a stable-but-hidden-meaning that should-have-been-testable appears to devour them.
I'm trying to figure out a way to get lit-crits of RPG study to attend to the pragmatics of RPG in the way that Brian does with optimisation.
 
1:37 AM
@SamuelRussell But that has nothing to do with the system, or even to the RPG context; it's just as applicable to a knock-knock joke.
 
Yes, that's a generalised device or structure that appears across most language forms.
But there are devices or structure peculiar to lyric poetry, like the epode; and there will be devices and structures peculiar to RPG as a form.
 
Yes.
 
Irony is understated in histories, but mandatory in teenage blog posts. Primary source citation is form-mandatory in histories, but rarely if ever seen in teenage blog posts.
 
But I'm not sure where comparing them beyond "devices/structures peculiar to each" is useful or even especially valid.
I'm trying to address your original suggestion that
2 hours ago, by Samuel Russell
Honestly we need an RPG poet to determine if and how mechanics produce themes.
 
Well, if we had a dictionary of RPG aesthetics, for form-unique devices (traps ought to be doubly-trapped), then we could determine if certain modes use certain devices. For the Form of RPG, the Mode of Murder Hobos enjoys use of Micromanaged Stats Systems and is Often Seen with Multiple Independent Resolution Systems.
"The Mode of Murder Hobos is rarely seen with cooperative storytelling using consensus resolution of opposed actions"
 
1:42 AM
yes, but unfortunately,
Feb 12 at 2:55, by BESW
The RPG community is a community only in the loosest of terms. There's nothing even remotely like term consensus.
 
"Frank's Game Report of Carebears Simulator: The Murder Hoboing draws unique attention to the limits of Murder Hobos as a form. The PuffleStuff Mountains were not looted for candyfloss, and the Evil Mr Jenkins found the spirit of love in his heart rather than finding his heart staked to destroy his spirit."
Aristotle didn't give us a guide to the poetics of Semetic religious writing. But by close attention to public Greek writings he gave us a (huuuge) start.
Often we analyse plays based on the script alone, without having stage notes, performance examples or mis-en-scen reproductions.
Also, in terms of poetry, critics form and reform canons out of the massive volumes of dreck produced each year by amateurs.
So I'm not sure that the Mode being used across multiple communities, with few well accepted "play examples" as instances of performance of play, and with a vast volume of material being produced is quite the problem.
 
Yes, well, I find literary criticism in general to be a largely unfulfilling (if highly entertaining) field.
 
I guess this is why I'm calling for a "formalist" or "new critical" analysis of RPG texts, particularly RAW, fluff, and Rules-as-breakable. If nothing else it would eventually result in a comparative evaluation of the variety of ways of writing a rules book and the form/genre conventions thereof. Which would have a pragmatic use for future authors.
 
1:57 AM
Of course, then we come back to the fact that the vast majority of the RPG experience is entirely uncollected.
 
As opposed to, say, William J. White. [nd] "Playing House in a World of Night: Discursive Trajectories of Masculinity in a Tabletop Role-Playing Game" IJRP 2
The vast majority of fictive experience is uncollected oral story-telling. The vast majority of non-fictive production is prosaic oral instruction.
I'm not going to suggest that rules books are as significant as, say, scripts for drama. But they're stable, central, highly referenced texts. They're a way forward, not a complete path.
 
2:57 AM
0
Q: Who is winning the First Anniversary Contest?

Brian Ballsun-StantonA place to post reports on competition for our first anniversary contest.

 
3:23 AM
@BESW, @BrianBallsun-Stanton, I have a question for you relating to a question I would like to post, but am reluctant to.
 
@Lord_Gareth Brian's got a headache. What's up?
 
@BESW - Well, I'm hoping to ask a question relating to Scion: Hero. The trouble, as it were, is that Scion deals so heavily in IRL mythology that I'm sorta afraid of the question getting closed for being "off-topic" when it's really just a consequence of the setting Scion presents
 
Then you need to be careful and explicit about the context, and frame it as an RPG question with IRL context.
 
Hmm. Need to think about that.
My player(s) need some ideas on where to stuff Jormungund to get him A. off Midgard B. someplace where he can be free without causing mass slaughter merely by existing
And I've got one (1) idea so far but it sorta...is a sort-of solution
Since it involves stuffing him in a crushing hell of deep water and darkness populated by beings full of the ocean's alien malice, utterly incapable of true peace or cooperation
 
If you can't frame it as an RPG question with IRL context, rather than a mythology question, then the community would be right to close it, or migrate it to SF&F.
 
3:27 AM
The Midgard Serpent is an asshole but I don't think he'd appreciate a 100% population of Things What Want to Kill Him nearby
 
Does Scion have its own version of IRL mythos, or is it explicitly "Go look up IRL legends yourselves, ya lazy bums"?
 
Ummm....mooooooostly that first one. Mostly.
 
Does it "import" a particular IRL interpretation of the mythos by citation?
 
@SamuelRussell - No. Give me a moment, this will take Some Explaining.
[Inhales deep breath]
 
[ducks]
 
3:37 AM
Scion (as a whole setting) presents a modern world where various gods and heroes actually existed and did most (or all) of the things they're credited for - including, in some cases, the contradictory ones. Its setting adds unifying elements that define the divine and semi-divine and explains the origins of the various gods and their progenitors, referred to collectively (and for ease of use) as the Titans. It sets out common definitions that define words like Hero, Demigod, God, Titan Avatar
and Greater Titan. It introduces supernatural influence in historical events (like WWII) and lays out interactions between pantheons whose cultures may or may not have met, as well as defining Fate as a universal cross-pantheon force linked closely with divinity and mankind
So, for example
 
So its IRL source book is American Gods?
:)
 
@SamuelRussell - Heh. Heavily inspired, yes, but not entirely. Care to hear an example?
 
(AFK a sec, tucking wife in)
The foundational - force? Trait? Substance? - linking all divine beings from Greater Titans to Gods, Demigods to Heroes, Immortals to the lowliest, most wretched Titanspawn is called Legend (also legend, lowercase 'L'). It is inherent to all such beings, and is the facilitator of their mythic feats. No Legend, no powers. With Legend, however, almost anything is possible. There's just one huge drawback
Beings of Legend stand out in the skein of Fate and can create Fatebindings. These aren't good things. First, significant events happen to and around beings of Legend - this is referred to by scholars of Fate as their Fateful Aura. The more potent your Legend, the more potent the occurences
Secondly, Fatebindings sap away at the free will of those who experience them. Why is Zeus a horndog even though he knows it will kill him? Because he's bound by Fate; he used his powers for sex in view of mortals, made them venerate him for it, and now he has no choice. It's too late for him to stop even if he wants to.
Extreme Fatebinding is part of the reason that Ragnarok has such power; the Aesir used and abused Fate until it became the noose that would strangle them.
(AFK for real now)
(Feel free to leave questions or comments)
 
So, your question is about locations that can be used to contain the World-Serpent. Is Scion's setting structured such that you can restrict answers to "places mentioned by Scion material," or does it have to be a wider scope than that?
Are there mechanical considerations (system-based powers of Jorgie, or mechanical features of terrain)?
 
3:53 AM
It sounds like the fluff is a loose transform on reality. Which means that the question has a high chance of falling either into trivially answerable fluff, or belongs elsewhere reality? (The game itself sounds fun and awesome.) Also, sending poison from the ocean into the depths of the ocean sounds like Fatebound hubris.
"How do I spec Cthulhu's powers in Scion in relation to containing Jorgie in an eternal battle of poisonous dead chaos."?
 
Personally, I'd be inclined to hand Jormungander over to the Lord of Mictlan or someone similar.
It's a nice enough place, but there's not much to wreck and the landlord is a pretty stern type.
 
Well, Scion's setting contains more implied locations than actual locations; that is to say, they encourage you to look up places like Mag Mell and include them in your game if you wish. Some places (such as, say, Vanaheim) are explicitly cut off because of the war "currently" happening in the setting; others, like Atlantis, have complications. With that in mind there's still one place off of the top of my head that Jormungund could go...but it's sorta inherently hostile.
There are some few mechanical considerations about Jormungund himself but for the most part these are helpful. For example, the Midgard Serpent is immensely powerful, backed up by a hideously potent Legend, surprisingly comprehensive mastery of divine sorcery and raw physical might. This means he can settle just about any place and not worry about being overmatched except by greater deities and Titan Avatars
 
So, how about Mictlan?
 
@BESW - The Aztec afterlife? The one distinctly lacking in water?
 
Heck, give him a dog to go with him, make it all nice and traditional.
 
4:04 AM
There is an important negative consideration
 
I considered Tlalocan, but that's connected to every body of water ever. And it's not like Jorgie needs water.
 
The World-Serpent's smallest size (he can change them) is 100 feet long and he hates being that "small" because it's uncomfortable. His smallest sustainable size could encircle Manhattan Island and his normal size has him making a rough circle with part of his body under the Rockies/Andes and another part beneath the Atlantic Ocean
There are three primary challenges to transporting Jormungund: first is actually moving him. The second is having a place to put him, and the third is doing so without waking him up
Now, the "place" I'm considering suggesting is known currently as The Drowned Road. It/They is/are the Greater Titan of Water.
 
Uku Pacha would make a lot of sense, and might be easier for transit.
 
Uku whatnow?
 
The Pacha (often translated as world) was an Incan concept for dividing the different spheres of the cosmos in Incan mythology. There were three different levels of pacha: the Hanan Pacha (meaning World Above), Ukhu Pacha (World Below), and Kay Pacha (This World). The realms are not solely spatial, but were simultaneously spatial and temporal. Although the universe was considered a unified system within Incan cosmology, the division between the worlds was part of the dualism prominent in Incan beliefs. This dualism found that everything which existed had both features of any feature (both...
 
4:10 AM
Interesting
Essentially what Jormungund requires in a living space is A. room to B. be himself (which is to say, a gigantic predatory serpent) without C. disturbing the affairs of Gods or mortals if at all possible. The supplement Ragnarok used the Iron Wood in this fashion for the Fenris Wolf
Something underground would probably really suck for this, since it kinda smacks of confinement
 
How does Scion like time travel? Because the Dreamtime might be ideal.
 
There's a Greater Titan of Time that's currently loose and wrecking the defenses of the Yazata. It should be noted that the entire reason the Aztec pantheon was allowed to exist was Preventing Time Travel
 
Ooooor... [grin] Not so much with the predation, perhaps, but pre-creation Chamorro myth has the perfect spot.
 
Hmm it seems one of my aquantances is looking into a new RPG, I wish to ask opinions. Its called Anima.
 
don't ask opinions, ask questions
that's one of the contest RPGs
 
4:16 AM
Ok. Is it earthshatteringly horrible?
that be a question.
 
i looked through the rules once out of curiousity
seemed decent, though i'm not aware of any support besides the core book
 
7 books total it seems.
 
the concepts seemed good, though the writing didn't always do a good job of explaining what was going on, so sometimes you had to really stop & think about how things worked
really?! i'll have to investigate further, it seems
 
A quick glance at reviews says: Really pretty, really complex, requires high-level mastery, books are slow to be translated into English...
 
4:20 AM
@BESW Hmm, Sounds Familiar.
 
hmmm, the translation issue would explain the poor wording
 
@BESW - Mrr?
 
Strong criticisms of book design and writing, more "really complex" with complaints about tables and charts...
@Lord_Gareth Can Jorgie get turned into a constellation? That's a pretty common thing.
 
The Yazata might consent to that kind of service if he could be persuaded to accept that as his wergild, yeah. For that matter he...actually nevermind. The denizens of Gaia, Greater Titan of Earth, would have far too much hostile use for him for the Gods to approve that plan
Could dump him in Mag Mell, in theory
Of course, he'd sorta class the joint down
Jotunheim's so crappy not even the natives wanna live there so that's a no-go
 
if I may be so bold as to ask, What in the first 3 of the 9 hells are you talking about?
 
4:28 AM
@Novian - Potential places to relocate Jormungund Lokison, the Midgard Serpent, Slayer of Thor, whose body is so massive that his coils can be mistaken for the horizon and his restless shifting in his fatebound sleep causes tsunamis and continental drift
 
@Novian Where can we stick the Jormungander that he'll be happy without making a mess?
 
@BESW They dont make Bags of holding that big.
 
Considered marrying him off to the rainbow serpent/s and thereby forcing him to settle down and become the alternate face, the destroyer, of a progenitor?
 
or for that matter, Ziplock Bags.
 
@SamuelRussell Both major patrons of the Coatl are kinda, well, male.
 
4:30 AM
@SamuelRussell I don't think Quetzalcoatl swings that way.
 
@BESW And the only way Hurracan swings is "with an axe"
 
I don't know. Add a rainbow necktie to the one from FF8 and Quez just might.
 
Hrm. You know, now that I think about it
The Pesedjet - the Egyptian gods - maintain a divine realm that's a river. Just a huge river the size of worlds on which they pilot city-ships that house the individual realms of the gods
 
Why does the thought of Quetzalcouatl wearing a necktie make me laugh?
 
@Novian Because he's clearly more of a string tie kind of guy.
2
 
4:34 AM
lol
 
lol
 
>In some cultures, the Rainbow Serpent is male; in others, female; in yet others, the gender is ambiguous or the Rainbow Serpent is hermaphroditic or bisexual.
All you have to do is transport an enormous sleeping snake to Woomera Detention Centre, Atomic Test Site and Waste Storage
Might mean Lake Eyre gets flooded though.
 
I Wonder, If pandora's box is empty.....Do you think she'd let me have it?.....
Man I must be sleep'y to say something like that.....
 
Okay, so right now we can pitch him into the Drowned Road or into the Egyptian section of the Overworld (the divine realms). Both of them have the immediate problem of being hostile areas; the former being inherently hostile, the latter being under siege by Aten, the Titan of Light, and his suicide bombers
Though frankly anything short of Aten Hisownself is going to be a minor irritant to the Midgard Serpent
 
How expansive are we being with our mythologies here?
 
4:41 AM
Meaning?
 
WWTDD
 
The Hollow Earth hypothesis proposes that the planet Earth is either entirely hollow or otherwise contains a substantial interior space. The hypothesis has been shown to be wrong by observational evidence, as well as by the modern understanding of planet formation; the scientific community has dismissed the notion since at least the late 18th century. The concept of a hollow Earth still recurs in folklore and as the premise for subterranean fiction, a subgenre of adventure fiction. It is also featured in some present-day pseudoscientific and conspiracy theories. Hypotheses Ancient hist...
 
The Hollow Earth could theoretically be a Terra Incognita or perhaps an extension of the Primal Cavern
Hrm...
I could toy with that quite a bit...
 
If it's big enough, it's not prisony.
 
Hell if I go all Jules Verne on it there's lots of space "down" there
 
4:43 AM
If you want to be really silly....
The Hollow Moon theory is a hypothesis proposing that Earth's Moon is either wholly hollow or otherwise contains a substantial interior space. No scientific evidence exists to support the idea. The concept is related to or derived from the better-known Hollow Earth theory, and was an infrequent but recurring plot device in pre-spaceflight science fiction. Two versions The Hollow Moon theory never gained enough popularity for any major quasi-scientific hypothesis attempting to rationalize it to become notable. Modern Hollow Moon adherents can however be broadly grouped in two major camps...
That ought to keep him out of your hair.
 
Yeah hell no. I want you to look me in the eyes and tell me that Artemis, the Smoking Mirror, and various other Moon gods wouldn't have wrecked that place out of sheer spite
 
Whats next Hollow Mars?
 
The inside of the sun
 
Besides, Hollow Earth gives me an excuse for dinosaurs and the like.
 
@Novian Don't make me bring Naboo into this.
 
4:46 AM
@BESW And if I do?
 
how patient is Jormungandr?
 
...You know, Naboo would be a great place to put him
 
he likes to live in the roots of Yggdrasil, right?
what if you took a cutting from Yggdrasil and planted it on some shit world somewhere else?
it's shit now, so nobody will look there or contest it for him
 
but once the cutting grows it will eventually be a nice place for him live
 
4:47 AM
@ObliviousSage - Trick question! The Midgard Serpent only really qualifies as sapient as long as he remains asleep. If he wakes up on Midgard or hears the call to Ragnarok he'll lose all thought to rage and proceed to fight Thor.
Also you're thinking Nidhogg
 
@Lord_Gareth Oh yeah? Well you're a Nidhogg too!
 
Nidhogg, you say?
 
@BESW :P
 
damn you auto-shrinking!
 
@ObliviousSage Nidhogg gnaws at the roots of Yggdrasil in an effort to destroy it, which is doomed to fail. He also frees the souls of the dead from their bodies in Niflheim by gnawing the corpses. He is known as the Corpse-Wyrm for this, among his other names. Scion presents his current state of being as a curse from the Norns for insulting them in some distant, forgotten age
In any event Jormungund must be moved without waking him until he's off of Midgard while also not in Asgard
Needless to say you don't get a do-over on screwing that operation up
 
4:53 AM
Yeah, I'm for dumping him in the Inner Sea.
 
Weekend at Lokis
"They thought it would be amusing to put roofies in a giant ocean encircling serpent's drink."
 
Depending on the point in his narrative, Loki might be a rather bad host.
 
@BESW - I agree, great plan
 
"Bound to a rock having venom dripped in your face" isn't a good position to plan a party from.
 
@BESW unless it's a revenge party
 
4:55 AM
He'd still have trouble arranging for the catering.
 
@BESW - Loki is currently free; Baldur the Bright lives and has not yet been slain. The Aesir look to Baldur's death as the point-of-no-return on Ragnarok
 
Maybe you go to more boring parties than I do
 
Unless you're proposing a Titus Andronicus style revenge party.
@SamuelRussell It would be hard for you to go to less boring parties than I do, I think.
 
At the moment it looks like my bucks night will be three people playing hearts, one on "half serve" g&ts
And I LIKE IT that way
 
Though it should be noted for the record that I'm using Loki and one of his Scions as the murky villains of this plot arc
 
4:58 AM
last bachelor party i was at consisted of light drinking & a lot of super smash brothers
the bride was disappointed
she wanted us to go to some strip club she heard about where you could get a plaster cast of a stripper's butt as a souveneir
 
What, did she want lurid...oh
Well then
 
Butt how can you cast a hairy bottom?
 
@SamuelRussell As an art studio major, I can answer that.
 
@BESW This is the best thing I've heard since I asked how I could punch a river in half in Exalted and the immediate response was, "How long do you want it to stay in half?"
 
@Lord_Gareth [bow and a flourish] I live to confound.
 
5:04 AM
Disguise world ending snake as cat, give cat to goddess of spinsters in her flat of mystery. problem solved.
2
 
...I can vividly imagine the CSI episode that would turn into.
3
 
@BESW My Dad showed me that one earlier today; he set it as his background on just about every device he owns. Understandably, really, it's an amazing photo.
 
I've got APOD on my RSS.
The best ones go into a folder called "SPACE!" that fuels my screensaver.
 
I get most of my backgrounds from Digital Blasphemy but APOD has some nice stuff.
 
5:30 AM
I just use landscapes of rural north asian temples
 
...this there a site for that?
 
images.google.com etc.
I pick one image per display device and stick to it
 
5:48 AM
@shatterspike1 Hi.
 
Hello
 
 
2 hours later…
7:50 AM
@BrianBallsun-Stanton I recant my previous support for Aristotle. His ideas on how space works/is occupied (and the ensuing denial of empirical facts in the centuries to come) really turned me off.
 
@LitheOhm Wait, Aristotle denied empirical facts for centuries after he formulated his theories? He is a lich!
 
 
2 hours later…
10:18 AM
[modping]
 
@BESW is that the correct way of pinging moderators?
 
No, it's just me starting out gentle.
@BrianBallsun-Stanton, @waxeagle [poke]
 
oh I see haha :D
 
Taiwan, eh? Greetings from the Western Pacific.
 
Hi!
 
10:24 AM
Quite a few of us in RPG are from this area; @BrianBallsun-Stanton is in Australia.
 
Australia, should be online now
 
On the other hand, he's not on Skype and that's unusual.
Every now and then there's talk of an RPG blog, but it's not come to anything that I know of.
Although there are a couple of users we've encouraged to get personal blogs as an outlet for topics that aren't really suitable for the site.
 
@BESW I have a feeling one of the site moderators have to email the StackExchange team
 
@BESW sup, just have a minute, but Ill be back in an hour and half (and I'm not a mod here)
 
@waxeagle I know, it's a more general moddery question about the blog-starting procedure.
Hydra here is trying to start up a webapps.se blog and isn't sure how to progress beyond the "post on the child meta" stage.
 
10:40 AM
Yes, thanks :)
 
@Hydra ah, there is a blog room, moment
 
@waxeagle Much obliged!
 

Stack Exchange Community Blogs

For anyone wanting to help or participate with the Stack Excha...
ping Grace Note when you see Xer
Xe is around normally during the US workday
failing that, have a mod snag a com team member from the TL
 
@waxeagle Ah okay :D
GraceNote, can you link me to her profile?
 
@Hydra xe has an acct everywhere being staff, here it is on RPG rpg.stackexchange.com/users/1036/grace-note
 
10:45 AM
Power: Modsummon increases by +1!
 
@waxeagle Ah great, excellent
 
It is Australian evening, so I'm at work again.
 
Thanks for all of your help, @waxeagle and @BESW :D
 
chat profile so you know what xe looks like ^
 
10:46 AM
Okay, sure :D
 
 
2 hours later…
12:46 PM
If anyone's interested, the first session of our FAE: Enchanted Forest game is up.
 
What is this you speak of?
 
@JoshuaAslanSmith I've been working on getting a FATE Accelerated Editions game up and running in chat, and we finally had the first session. Just a one-on-one.
 
@besw nice
 
Is anyone familar with the new iteration of D&D?
 
@Ravn D&D Next?
 
12:52 PM
I'm aware of it, does that count?
 
@Ravn I've run some of the early renditions
 
@ravn I've also run a bit (everything but the latetest version, but I can flip through it real quick to see any changes)
 
Yeah, Next. I was wondering if anyone could give a quick overview of it? Or maybe point me to somewhere I can read about it.
I've only tried 4th edition, though. I'm interested in how it's diffierent from that edition.
 
@ravn do you actually want the playtest material or just an opinion?
 
@Ravn um why not just read the packet? it's not that long and it's freely available
 
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