MoriDowidhYa3aqov

@IsaacMoses remove yaheidh from the hebrew and english translation. or keep it as is and leave the comment there for those that do say it so they learn too not just the christian. one should bring the original nosah not just the rambam zl but look at older texts. see when yaheidh was added

that is clear and blatant blasphemy

especially when a christian is asking a question pertaining to prayer. one doesnt want to give them a false understanding of judaism that it acknowledges hashsheim being unified in some sort of way

@IsaacMoses arent you a mod? cant you check who deleted my comment? can you undelete my comment? it was a comment to ezras answer here judaism.stackexchange.com/questions/90360/…

every time i come in here its always because my comments are deleted

who deleted my comment this time?

@msh210 its fine thanks

thanks

if opinion a is correct and one follows opinion b, he is forgoing the masoro as well as being in the wrong. there is no justification for this. just because opinion b is highly regarded, doesnt make it right to follow it as it is clearly the wrong opinion to follow

"this is the established practice in these communities, and it does follow an opinion in the Talmud, so this is what they should keep doing." is not an answer but a justification for the custom. if there is a masoro of set rules one should follow in regards to opinion a or opinion b.

dont remember it word for word. i can certainly rewrite it as i have for the answer made by the person under ezra:

on top of that, bring proof that ashkanazim followed those particularly gaonim

the laws of learning the gamaro have been passed down by the gaonim to the rishonim. if you claim that the gaonim didnt all follow this way of learning, bring proof of such a claim

the rest of the world of this time had a connection to the gaonim and learned from them. ashkanazim must bring proof that they can supersede the gaonim and go straight to hazal via a different source. who are the ancestors of ashkanazim that let taught them the way to learn the gamaro.

its not based on what most people believe at that moment. just like ashkanazim hold majority in numbers now yet they are still wrong. its about the substance not the amount of followers

majority of torah following jews are some of a whole sure but not some on the same level as ashkanazi rishonim

its majority

its not some

yes and the majority of the world of the time had a masoro to hazal via gaonim

see how "you" are skipping things?

their opinions hardly matter to the majority of the world

like i said ashkanazim are 20% of am yisroeil at this point in time

some rishonim dont include ashkanazim because they are not rishonim with an obvious masoro to hazal via gaonim

which continued the masoro of hazal on to us via chain of transmission

no its not its clearly stated by the gaonim and rishonim

its not my opinion its the masoro of hazal

i dont have ashkanazim. thats your feelings acting up. stating that a person should adhere to the stated law and masoro is not called hate but love

not hard to understand

we have a stated masoro. diverging from it left or right is clearly making that person in the wrong

abandoning wrong suppositions no matter how old is what should be done. feelings dont matter when it comes to law

i dont understand your statement

the masoro is of hazal. what ashkanazim have as a "masoro" doesnt matter if it goes against hazal

follow the law not your own imaginations

just want ashkanazim to say they are wrong and go by hazal

and we already know we dont go by the minority opinion

in regards to the birkath hattoro, the yarushalmi says "ribbi yuhudho in the name of shamueil"

go by the minority opinion at all costs even when its wrong

seems like the worldy case at hand fits the sugya as well

at the time of the gaonim and rishonim, ashkanazim made up at most 20% of world jewry

that doesnt support your case. it doesnt matter how you learn the situation. the masoro is to go by rabbonim and thats the defining factor. "your" manuscripts of the gamaro dont mean a thing. want to go agains the stated masoro, prove your manuscripts and your way of learning is the right way

the comments arent just for you. its for everyone thats going to be reading this. your answer, which is a copy and paste of the tosofoth, is not an answer as to why the ashkanazim dont follow the masoro laid out by hazal. what you can do is edit your answer and state that the way the law was brought down by hazal is to say ahavath olom. and this is passed down by the gaonim on wards. and that ashkanazim have a custom they dont know the reason to why it came about that it goes against hazal. therefore throughout the ages they made up apologies for their custom that goes against hazal

its on them to prove their masoro being more correct over gaonim zl

right tosofoth out of respect for their ashkanazi ancestors doesnt want to say they were wrong. they cant say they lost the masoro or didnt have a masoro to the gaonim or anything along those lines. but out of respect for their ancestors they arent being logically honest. im not looking for any answer. i say ahavath olom like the masoro states. its the onus on ashkanazim to bring proof of going against the masoro of hazal. ashkanazim can come up with millions of reasons as to why many of their customs dont go with the masoro of hazal through the gaonim

"Isn't that how every mesorah is explained?" idk is it? ask a question regarding this topic

what do you mean so what. you just said they arent justifying now you are saying so what to it. if they are that means your answer is not an answer to the question and just rehash of the apology by the tosofoth for their custom. they dont give a clear cut answer as to why they dont follow the masoro, which is to follow rabbonon. they give an apologetic answer as to why a custom in ashkanaz appeared which goes against said masoro

a reason for not following the masoro. that is called justifying

no thats not an answer. the tosofoth is not answering the question of why they are going against the masoro/norm. they are giving an answer to their existing custom, ie justification for a custom that was already established in their lands before them

i dont remember it word for word but its similar to the comment i made to the answer below this one. rewriting it similarly here: this isnt an answer as to "why" ashkanazim recite this way. this is an answer as to "how" ashkanazim justify their custom. the masoro teaches us how to learn the law from the gamaro. rabbonon over shamueil. the answer should reflect this point. the onus is on ashkanazim to prove to the majority of jews why they are right while everyone else is wrong. the gaonim go by rabbonon why? because of said masoro and so do everyone but ashkanazim during the rishonim period

please explain why my comment was deleted thanks