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Graham

 The APL Orchard

apl.chat ― Learn, teach, ask, code, golf, & discuss usage. See ...
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Graham
Dec 9, 2018 14:57
@Adám Forget the above. My app graphics are running on Dyalog happily talking to my APL driving app via websockets
Graham
Dec 9, 2018 14:42
@Adám The HTMLRenderer caught my eye so I tried it with one of my turbo training apps which uses HTML5/JS to drive the graphics with limited success. Does the renderer support sound and websockets?
Graham
Dec 8, 2018 22:26
@Adam ○/ APL needs friends :(
Graham
Dec 8, 2018 22:23
@Adam :( is more recognisable. So I guess this is good bye. See you in code golf.
Graham
Dec 8, 2018 22:20
@Adam lower right. ⍨?
Graham
Dec 8, 2018 22:17
@Adam Sorry I just hovered over your last message clicked on the left arrow and nothing noticeable happened. I also went to the sandbox and you will see my reaction there. I guess it is time for me to sign off.
Graham
Dec 8, 2018 21:28
@Adam It is not just you. I do not know their client base but they certainly are not interested in furthering the adoption of APL. OK I will try your hovering suggestion. Remember I am a newbie here
Graham
Dec 8, 2018 21:24
@Adam apl2000.com/pricing.php
Graham
Dec 8, 2018 21:22
@Adam In fact some of the apps I developed on that system still work today. The one thing I have been impressed by with the APL+WIN system is that things just keep on working despite the passage of time.
Graham
Dec 8, 2018 21:19
@Adam I still have a copy on my win98 machine.
Graham
Dec 8, 2018 21:15
@Adam Mail sent
Graham
Dec 8, 2018 20:30
@Adam OK I understand. I will mail you.
Graham
Dec 8, 2018 20:26
@Adam That is not a confidence inspiring response. I would suggest we take our discussions off line and use person to person comms.
Graham
Dec 8, 2018 20:20
@Adam dyalog.com/tools/graphics-and-publishing.htm, dyalog.com/syncfusion-controls-examples-using-apl.htm All the Bowman links fail. Dick was the guy who got me into APL back in our CEGB days
Graham
Dec 8, 2018 20:13
@Adam That might be true but having the ability to write these interfaces normally yields a lower footprint. My point is not to argue but to indicate what would be involved in migrating to Dyalog. I have yet to venture into graphics. The related Dyalog web pages are "under development"
Graham
Dec 8, 2018 20:05
@Adam That is trivial I agree but moving beyond that into TCP/IP, HTTP etc I would need to move over to Conga. APL+WIN allows a much lower level interfaces. I have other apps with multiple low level interfaces which I would have to rewrite if possible in Dyalog.
Graham
Dec 8, 2018 19:53
@Adam Karen has my email address which I am happy for you to use. I have imported several workspaces into Dyalog and nothing works. At the most basic level quad AV does not line up with ASCII so all my apps using compressed binary files fail as a consequence.
Graham
Dec 8, 2018 17:50
@Adam. Karen was very helpful and I have Dyalog running on a couple of my machines. Unfortunately the differences between APL+WIN and Dyalog appear huge outside the basic glyphs. Most of my apps will need a complete rewrite if I am to move over.
Graham
Dec 7, 2018 00:30
@Adám Done
Graham
Dec 6, 2018 22:36
@Adám I have desktop machines in a couple of rooms plus laptops and tablets one of which I am using currently whilst watching TV. I am happy to give Dyalog another try if I can have a copy which can load and use on all my machines
Graham
Dec 6, 2018 22:36
@Adam Whilst I have no intention to using it commercially I, like I assume you do, have a series networked machines on which I would wish to develop APL.
Graham
Dec 6, 2018 22:35
@Adám I have just followed your link to the Dyalog site to download the latest free version. Unfortunately I cannot agree to the TOC.
Graham
Dec 6, 2018 22:18
@Adám must remember not to hit return for a new line! > I find the .net stuff, in particular, to be a backward step in terms of coding aesthetics. Instead of the elegance of the APL glyphs we now have functions which look more like badly punctuated English essays. I guess it will grow on me eventually particularly if/when I find something I can do with it that I cannot do in plain vanilla APL.

>>I agree fully. I make use of .NET only in rare cases, although it is
usefull. I am always struggling with the Microsoft Help Files, so
Graham
Dec 6, 2018 22:17
@Adám This does not take us too far forward but here is an extract of a conversation I had way back in 2009 with someone involved with Dyalog. > me, >> them
Graham
Dec 6, 2018 22:00
@Adám OK. Again I accept that OO does require a lot of words as I make a lot of use of things like xl via dot notation. It might be better if tomorrow I fire up Dyalog and try and find an example of what put me off. With regard to your last comment I am forced to agree as Dyalog almost always beats APL+WIN in Golf
Graham
Dec 6, 2018 21:53
@Adám No I do not have an objection to control structures as they exist in APL+WIN. To give you a better example I would need to fire up my Dyalog interpreter and give you a concrete example.
Graham
Dec 6, 2018 21:49
@Adám Hi this is my first venture into this chat room. I am aware of the tools available but that is only part of the issue. When I looked into Dyalog at the time it appeared to have diverged from what I was used to in that it had become wordy like other languages. The thing that attracted me to APL was its pure symbolic notation. Code Golf is much closer to my view of APL than what I saw in Dyalog
 

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Graham
Dec 8, 2018 22:08
@Adam: "However, I think you are assuming too much about me", "I will reiterate, but instead of blatantly saying it doesn't make sense" etc. As I said this is not a place for me. I come from a different generation.
Graham
Dec 8, 2018 22:02
@Adam I do not think this is a place I want to be
 

 Discussion between Graham and Adám

Imported from a comment discussion on codegolf.stackexchange.c...
Graham
May 7, 2018 18:44
@Adám, Thanks I will keep that in mind. I think I am just about there as I have managed to get the enklaction answer working on TIO using Dyalog Classic as it gets the same byte count as APL+WIN. I have also modified the link to say (courtesy of Dyalog Classic) as I am piggybacking someone else's efforts.
Graham
May 7, 2018 18:25
@Adám Thanks for the first tip that worked. Hopefully I can now include TIO in my answers. As for Android I had in mind developing apps on the dessktop/laptop and just running them on small screen devices. I had not envisaged developing on the phone.
Graham
May 7, 2018 18:14
@Adam Thanks for that and the offer. Once Dyalog is available on Android I make be tempted to experiment. I have failed the intelligence test with TIO at the first hurdle. How do you get it to take a character matrix. Take for example my answer to the enklaction question and the qick brown fox example. In APL+WIN I would enter the input as a 4x11 character matric following the prompt
Graham
May 7, 2018 17:59
@Adám. Thanks for that. APL2000 went super commercial a long while back and froze out us amateurs. I am still using V5. Dyalog are much more enlightened. I keep meaning to make the switch but I have so much stuff in APL+WIN and it does more or less what I need. In ⎕ML←3 mode how close does it come to APL+WIN?
Graham
May 7, 2018 17:36
for a 4x3
Graham
May 7, 2018 17:36
@Adám It does not look like my day. The input order is the wrong way round. Correcting it gives <table><tr><th>A<th>A<th>A<tr><td>A<td>A<td>A<tr><td>A<td>A<td>A<tr><td>A<td>A<t‌​d>A
Graham
May 7, 2018 17:21
@Adám Take a look at my answer on the main page where I have built it in to your last suggestion.
Graham
May 7, 2018 17:18
@Adám See my comments in response to yours. This is the first time I have used chat and did not realise the potential need for @ in a one to one.
Graham
May 7, 2018 17:15
It looks like a comma problem around the second t. Does ),,t,( fix it?
Graham
May 7, 2018 17:07
I think I now see the issue. The example is only a two line table.
Graham
May 7, 2018 16:58
OK but I still do not see what is wrong with the code as it gives the same answer as the example
Graham
May 7, 2018 16:54
@Adám Check your last suggested mod nowhere is t defined which I had as t←⊂'<tr>'. My expression above yields <table><tr><th>A<th>A<th>A<tr><td>A<td>A<td>A which looks remarkably like <table><tr><th>A<th>A<th>A<tr><td>A<td>A<td>A for the 2 3 example given in the question.
Graham
May 7, 2018 16:54
@Adám Check your last suggested mod nowhere is t defined which I had as <tr>. My expression above yields:
Graham
May 7, 2018 16:54
@Adám Thanks. Its not my day must be the heat (28C)!
Graham
May 7, 2018 16:54
@Adám Too trigger happy I am afraid. Looks OK now?
 

 Discussion on question by AJFaraday: …

Imported from a comment discussion on codegolf.stackexchange.c...
Graham
Mar 31, 2018 15:39
It looks like we have all come up with solutions that max at 7. So I would vote this as a fun exercise and forget about winning. Unless someone can claim a more effective solution.
 

 Discussion between Graham and Uriel

Imported from a comment discussion on codegolf.stackexchange.c...
Graham
Nov 19, 2017 23:43
twitter.com/… We have exchanged ideas on occasions directly and through the APL Wiki managed by Kai Jaeger to which I have made a couple of contributions.
Graham
Nov 19, 2017 23:29
OK I will take a look as I am clearly way behind the curve when it comes to code golf. Perhaps I should also take up Morten's offer to move over from my APL+WIN v5 to Dyalog's v16. Why are the dialects so different. It looks like being a steep learning curve:(
Graham
Nov 19, 2017 23:18
OK I see that but you still have to input 5 in your example and you can only do that by typing your one liner followed by a space and the 5. What am I missing in the context of code golf. We are clearly APL enthusiasts albeit I am very old school so we on the same side when it comes to demonstrating the capabilities of APL
Graham
Nov 19, 2017 23:11
OK I am not familiar with dfns or "input through function arguments" so if others here are content with your approach I withdraw my falsy comments. I would still like to see how your line of code would produce an answer with no other input
Graham
Nov 19, 2017 23:11
On that basis can I assume I can assign n within my workspace prior to running the APL one liner and thereby save 7 bytes, I am not sure our fellow competitors will accept that.