Jun 26, 2021 03:12
@terdon You wrote: "While you may say that "Racial categorizations have never been based on skin pigment, but on indigenous continent of origin", that is not really true as historically, skin color has been used as the primary determiner of race and this has led to the various forms of racism that have plagued us for so long."

The paper I provided a link to addresses this point:

“In our view, much of this discussion does not derive from an objective scientific perspective. This is understandable, given both historic and current inequities based on perceived racial or ethnic identities, bo
Jun 25, 2021 00:37
@terdon Due to migration, continental boundaries are not longer a barrier to racial mixing. Therefore, race is determined by your primary ancestry.

Racial categorizations have never been based on skin pigment, but on indigenous continent of origin.

Genetic differentiation among the races has led to some variation in pigmentation across races, but considerable variation within races remains, and there is substantial overlap for this feature. For example, it would be difficult to distinguish most Caucasians and Asians on the basis of skin pigment alone, yet they are easily distinguished by
Jun 25, 2021 00:32
@terdon 'Probably the best way to examine the issue of genetic subgrouping is through the lens of human evolution. If the human population mated at random, there would be no issue of genetic subgrouping because the chance of any individual carrying a specific gene variant would be evenly distributed around the world. For a variety of reasons, however, including geography, sociology and culture, humans have not and do not currently mate randomly, either on a global level or within countries such as the US.'
Jun 25, 2021 00:25
@terdon You referenced the article I provided, my response is:

1. 'We find that commonly used ethnic labels are both insufficient and inaccurate representations of the inferred genetic clusters, and that drug-metabolizing profiles, defined by the distribution of DME variants, differ significantly among the clusters.' - Yes, ethnic labels ARE insufficient as they are solely for describing language or culture. Not sure what your point was by highlighting this paragraph as it simply supports my view that ethnicity and race are different.
Jun 25, 2021 00:10
@terdon You wrote 'That simply supports the existence of meaningful sub-groups, not of actual races' - It appears that you've contradicted yourself. You admit the study supports the existence of meaningful sub-groups, but you claim those sub-groups cannot be referred to as 'race'. Those sub-groups ARE race.
But if you still disagree, then what word do you propose we use for those sub-groups?
Jun 25, 2021 00:04
@JochenGlueck Certainly didn't mean to come across as 'snarky' though I concede that my language can be blunt at times. I have no ill will towards you, we simply disagree which is fine. I've actually enjoyed the discussion and hope we can have another disagreement in future :)
Jun 24, 2021 00:20
@JochenGlueck Interesting that despite the clear findings in the reference I provided, you still refute both the existence and application of meaningful biological race classification, even for medical reasons.

It is perplexing when my reference clearly addressed those doubts so I suspect that perhaps you didn't read the relevant part. There was quite a lot of information provided so its understandable if you skimmed. I'll leave you with this excerpt which, in my mind, makes a clear case for biological classification of mankind into races:
Jun 23, 2021 14:21
@user9716869 Your calculations in isolation are accurate, however when applied to the real world, they fall short.

Your calculations would only be valid IF the human population mated at random. There would be no issue of genetic subgrouping because the chance of any individual carrying a specific gene variant would be evenly distributed around the world. For a variety of reasons, however, including geography, humans have not and do not currently mate randomly, either on a global level or within countries.
Jun 23, 2021 10:34
@JochenGlueck It appears to me that, at least in public discourse, the reason for a lot of apprehension about recognizing race as distinct biological groups is for fear of the idea that the differences between those races can be used as a means of one race claiming superiority over the other.

I've seen reference to this in the media, with some mentions being made by certain people that particular races have a lower IQ etc. Which its quite possible that some races do have a lower average intelligence than another but with the politically correct world of today, no one dares look too much in
Jun 23, 2021 10:21
@JochenGlueck The encyclopedia article you quoted also states the following: "Ethnic identity is acquired, and ethnic features are learned forms of behaviour. Race, on the other hand, is a form of identity that is perceived as innate and unalterable. Ethnicity may be transient and even superficial. Race is thought to be profound and grounded in biological realities."

That is precisely what I am claiming.
Jun 23, 2021 06:15
@JochenGlueck Yes, exactly. I'm in agreement with everything you mentioned.

If we agree on those points you mentioned, where is our dispute?

It seems to me that you accept genetic differences between people but you don't know which collection of traits are used to determine each race.

The answer is...scientists have not come to universal agreement on that.

For me in day to day life, race doesn't concern me however if I meet someone who has features substantially different to mine, I might consider what race they are based on looks. But of course this is not accurate and knowing their ex
Jun 23, 2021 05:13
@JochenGlueck I might add that I'm of the view that 'race', which is genetically determined, holds no social or political implications.
Jun 23, 2021 05:09
@JochenGlueck To simplify it, think of it this way:

1. Are there identifiable genetic differences between people? Yes.
2. Are there genetic identifiers which large groups of people share, but not all people? Yes.
3. Are there genetic identifiers that correspond with obvious physical features? Yes.
4. Are there genetic identifiers that correspond strongly with geographical location? Yes.

Therefore, we can divide humans up into groups known as 'races' according to distinct biological markers that are unique to a group.
Jun 23, 2021 04:28
@JochenGlueck I understand your point, there are many different genetic traits so which collection of traits are used to delineate race.
Well as clearly stated in the study 'Our analyses revealed that Han Chinese, Japanese and Korean populations have distinct genetic makeup and can be well distinguished based on either the genome wide data or a panel of ancestry informative markers (AIMs).'

The differing genetic markers between those races strongly corresponded with geographical location. Again, not a surprise.
Jun 22, 2021 14:34
@JochenGlueck And regarding the lack of explicit use of the term 'race' within the study, this is no surprise, its a highly charged and emotional topic for people these days so my guess is they refrained from using the term. Isolating distinct genetic differences which can be used to group people clearly fits the mould to be regarded as 'race'.
Jun 22, 2021 14:24
@JochenGlueck In fact, the whole point of the study was to determine if there were in fact diagnostically significant genetic differences between ethnic groups and as it turns out, there is, (not a shocker by the way).
Jun 22, 2021 14:18
@JochenGlueck You wrote 'Han Chinese, Japanese and Korean, the three major ethnic groups of East Asia...So what you called "three races" is explicitly designated as three ethnic groups by your reference'.

You are correct, they referred to those three ethnic groups. The reason they referred to those as ethnic groups is because that was the basis for their study. From their point of view, the assumptions they held before conducting the study was that those groups were distinguished by ethnicity.
Jun 22, 2021 02:24
@JochenGlueck There is a reason why the definition of race is distinct from ethnicity, and its because there are important reasons to classify humans according to race. As @user2647513 mentioned, certain races have predispositions to certain diseases so its incredibly important to identify someones race to ensure correct medical treatment.

To clarify, here is a further excerpt from the study I cited previously:

'Our results showed that the three East Asian populations, Han Chinese, Japanese and Korean, although they resemble each other in appearance, have distinguishing genetic make-up an
Jun 22, 2021 02:15
@JochenGlueck You wrote 'I certainly agree (how couldn't I?) that there are many visually distinguishable traits that are genetically determined...The problem about any biological definition of "race" (the problem which is also referred to in the Britannica article) is that these traits are not sufficiently clustered to allow for any intrinsically meaningful categorization.'

I completely disagree. We already have many identified traits that are easily categorizable in meaningful ways. In the context of race, there are very clearly established differences between races, even those who you m
Jun 21, 2021 11:30
@JochenGlueck To sum up, race (skin color etc.) is based on biology (something inherited) and ethnicity is something learned (language and culture).
Jun 21, 2021 11:20
@JochenGlueck But Rachel Dolezal was roundly hated by many people all over the world for identifying as 'black', even though she took on black culture to do so.
Even looking at that one story, you can see people didn't approve of her doing that. This means, a lot of people DON'T think of race as culture or language, because if the did, then what Rachel did would be approved.
Jun 21, 2021 11:17
@JochenGlueck Regarding your last question, how were races defined? As I've stated already, race is biological. Therefore, one readily available method of determining someones race is by looking at them. Its not foolproof by any means but if you stand a black man next to an asian man, you would have to be blind if you thought they were the same race.
And this bastardisation of the definition of 'race' is causing real issues. Look at the story of Rachel Dolezal. She identified as 'black
Jun 21, 2021 11:10
@JochenGlueck Sounds like you have an enquiring mind and open to discussion which is something I don't find too often, so I'll try to answer your questions.
So the question of how I define race. The simple answer is that 'race' concerns biology and genetics, the most obvious difference between races being skin color. Now, of course we have a lot of race mixing in the world so there are not many people that are purely one race. But in those instances, your identified race should be with race that the majority of your genetics originated from.
Jun 21, 2021 06:56
@DanielHatton I should clarify that last sentence. You cannot say a racially caucasian person is racially African if they happen to learn how to speak isiZulu language.
Jun 21, 2021 06:54
@DanielHatton I understand your point about defining key phrases in order to enable lucid discussion and I agree, we need to have consensus about the meaning of words.
Which is why I reject your term 'new racism', either something is racist or it isn't. And in this discussion, its been suggested that language and culture are synonymous with race, which is laughable.
A baby born in Africa within the Zulu tribe would have black skin, that is genetically determined. However, the baby is not born knowing the language or culture, this is something learned.
Jun 20, 2021 02:43
@DanielHatton So you contend that if a lot of people say its so, it must be? Well that hypothesis is dead on arrival. A lot of people believe in Scientology, are they right? A lot of people believe in ghosts, are they right? A lot of people believe in resurrection, are they right?
Just because a lot of people believe it, doesn't mean its true.
Jun 20, 2021 02:39
@user9716869 Yes, I hold a consistent view on immigration. In fact, when I say that we should acutely reduce immigration levels (many reasons why) I also think all countries should do so.
Look at Japan, I love that country and would live there if I had the choice but their immigration policies are very strict, much more so than the west.
And, on a personal selfish level, I wish they didn't make it so hard. However, I'm also aware that what makes Japan the great country it is, from a cultural perspective, is that its a very homogeneous country. And I think they should keep it that way otherw
Jun 20, 2021 02:21
@user9716869 My 'claim' so far has been nothing more than a personal account and therefore there is no evidence, take my word or leave it.
And, my 'claim' holds as much weight as yours, which was also an opinion without evidence.
So, as for getting people to believe me, I don't care if you do or not. I'm simply giving you my opinion which as I've stated earlier, is based on my personal experiences.
Jun 18, 2021 16:01
@sursula The comment about migrants, even if he specified migrants, is not necessarily about race at all. So you shouldn't automatically accuse someone of racism when there are other possibilities. Perhaps its not about race at all but culture or language. Unless you live under a rock, if you've ever been around migrants you will see most times they do not assimilate so they continue to speak their native tongue and may not make an effort to mix with the communities they live in. He may be referring to that in which case, its nothing to do with race.
 
Jun 21, 2021 07:02
Rclone sync does work both ways. Or instead you can do this: rclone mount MyGdrive: /home/Back_Up This will make it look like the whole Gdrive is in a folder on the system. You can drag&drop copy to or from it just like you would interact with any other folder.
Jun 21, 2021 07:02
You have to state the source AND destination, you can't just state one. In the command you gave me, you had only listed 2 destinations but gave no source. Destinations are indicated after the 'remote:' part of the command. So if 'Back_Up' is a source and you want to sync its data with the destination which also has 'Back_Up', then the command would be: rclone sync Back_Up remote:Back_Up
Jun 21, 2021 07:02
Your command structure looks incorrect. I can give you the exact command but you need to clarify, is 'Back_up' a file or folder? Is 'Test2' a file or folder?
Jun 21, 2021 07:02
You haven't given the source. 'Remote:' is for the destination. So the command should be: rclone sync SOURCE remote:Back_Up
Jun 21, 2021 07:02
To clarify, are you saying that you ran the rclone sync command and a new directory was created at the destination with the same name?
Jun 21, 2021 07:02
Ok, but in your command, when you specified the destination, did you put the folder path OR did you put the folder path and the file name?
Jun 21, 2021 07:02
Yes I see Google does, not all providers do. Perhaps then what you're looking for is Rclone sync?
Jun 21, 2021 07:02
Yes but sync IS copying, but in this case it seems to be closer to what you're asking than doing a copy alone. If you want to make source and dest identical, modifying destination only, then sync is it. If you have any new files which you've put in source, then they will be copied over to destination just as they would if you invoked the copy command. Try: rclone sync -i SOURCE remote:DESTINATION
Jun 21, 2021 07:02
To clarify, when you say a new folder is created, is the name identical or does it have a number or something else?
Jun 21, 2021 07:02
@StarDust 'Rclone copy' copies over the source to the destination, therefore it will copy over the new files. If it sees existing identical files in the destination, then it doesn't do anything with those identical files UNLESS they have changed. What commands are you using? Rclone copy does not create another directory unless its the name of a directory that doesn't already exist.
Jun 21, 2021 07:02
@StarDust You want to copy over only files which have changed, to the same destination, then this does that. I suggest you try it and see what happens. You can run the commands without copying anything, as it says by doing a dry run.
 
Jun 19, 2021 02:26
@Clumsycat I'm glad you mentioned the use of the word 'retard'. This is a good example of why I won't change my vocabulary based on whats in fashion at the time.
Retard, imbecile, cretin and moron were all perfectly acceptable words to use in a until the words were used in common language as an insult, so enough people in society claimed the words were now 'loaded' terms and then came the push to stop using them.
Fast forward to today, now the socially acceptable terms to use are 'disabled' or 'handicapped' but I ask you this, how long until those words develop negative connotations? The go
Jun 17, 2021 00:34
@henning You suggest that rather than intentionally using words with negative connotations, that perhaps the person used them thoughtlessly.
That would only be true if the following three conditions were met; the person is aware of the particular negative connotations attached to the word (by some people) and; the person agrees with the view that those negative connotations are valid and finally; the person forgot the association at the time they used the offending words.
My view is that the truth is much simpler, they simply didn't know about your particular rules.
Jun 17, 2021 00:23
@KonradRudolph I should clarify, if someone came to me directly and said my language upset them as they have a direct and personal reason for it, then I would change my language for the duration of that discussion.
If they wanted me to change my language because they are offended on someone elses behalf or they were taught its bad by SJW's at uni, then I would politely decline.
3
Jun 17, 2021 00:21
@KonradRudolph You wrote '...in social contexts, they are loaded terms'.

They may be loaded terms for you, but not for me and certainly not for anyone I know. And I won't change my language to take into account the feelings of every individual that might read what I wrote.
If someone came to me directly and said my language upset them, I would certainly change my language in that moment if they were respectful towards me.
But as a general rule, the language I use assumes the audience is unaffected as most fo the time, that is the case.
4
Jun 16, 2021 23:57
@Clumsycat To clarify, changing 'male' or 'female' to 'man' or 'woman' in the context of the OP's question would not change the intent of the question therefore in my view it is irrelevant.
2
Jun 16, 2021 15:45
@henning Objectifying language? Its also accurate. The issue here is that you attribute ill intentions to the words 'male' and 'female' when used in a context you personally disapprove of. In my view, the person who used those words in their comment did not mean them in a derogatory, belittling or 'dehumanising' way. Your perception is that those words are 'dehumanising' by default but that is your opinion. In my opinion and clearly the opinion held by some others here, is that those words are apt and hold no negative connotations.
5
Jun 16, 2021 15:45
@henning You're correct, it isn't ungrammatical, you simply prefer not to use those terms. To strengthen your point that it isn't standard English, you make the point that medical case descriptions use the nouns 'man' and 'woman'. I can counter your point with this; it is standard practice when describing a suspect to use the terms 'male' and 'female'. Even on 'Suspect Description Form' you can get from various police departments, those two choices are listed under 'Sex'. So, either way is correct, you can opt for whatever you prefer.
3
Jun 16, 2021 15:45
@xyz No, you should not interpret my opinion as such because my response was limited solely to addressing Konrads language policing.
2
Jun 16, 2021 15:45
@KonradRudolph Your profile mentions you 'dabbled' in biological research and yet, you castigated another user by incorrectly claiming the words 'males' and 'females' are only used when referring to animals. How can you claim to be knowledgeable in the field of biology and get such a rudimentary fact wrong? And instead of trying to answer the OP's question, you chose to attack someones credibility by suggesting they are deliberately using dehumanising language. I can also see you've spent much time on campus at universities, my advice is to leave your SJW nonsense out of your responses.
7
 
Jun 16, 2021 07:25
@causative I don't need someone else to give me certainty, but someone else can certainly take away my certainty.