Shashank V M

Bye!

Oops, when I say "Software includes both data and program" it sounds as if data and program can be differentiated. The programmer can differentiate data and program for their convenience, as it makes things easier to understand for the programmer. But the computer does not differentiate between data and programs.

Thanks for your time. Software includes both data and program since the data is part of the instruction the computer executes.

Yes, just one last thing programs not equal to software.

Oh okay now I get your point

Since software is by definition the information that tells the computer what to do, a computer can't do anything without this information. Hence a computer can't work without software.

The only thing we disagree about is the concept of a raw computer running without software. When you write that in your answer, it appeas that you are suggesting that a computer can indeed work without software

I can't disagree with that

Yes, that's also true

Program is the algorithm coded in a programming language. I agree data is separate from the program.

But yes, in daily life we use the word software to mean a collection of programs. In this case, I am using software to mean the information that tells the computer what to do

Data is part of this information, hence it is part of the software

Since for me software is information that instructs the computer what to do

Yes I am including data in the software

I read through that, but I don't get that idea on reading the theorem

Data is part of the instruction

So it should also include data, and not exclude data

Software is information that instructs the computer what to do

The underlying assumption that the other people who have written answers are making is this "Software is the algorithm, written in a programming language that runs on a computer" they are treating the data processed by the algorithm as something that isn't software

@babou Yes I am aware of this. I work in the semiconductor industry :)

This is what I disagreed with. I could not find this concept anywhere else. Do you have any resource to back you up on this?

In your answer, you say "For example, a computer C running a program P on input x can be seen as a "raw computer" (i.e., without software) running on an input which is a pair <P,x>."

We distinguish between the data structure and the algorithm, and the data

Data and program isn't distinguished by the computer. It might be distinguished by us humans when we write programs,

Using the computer, just browsing the internet or chatting like we are doing right now is a kind of programming too.

We do agree on most respects. As you say "sofware is the abstract information that has to be made physical to be used in a machine." I agree with this, software is the information. It can be data that is fed in the computer too. Though this isn't what people think of when they think of software

I have also read Godel's incompleteness theorem, it's a beautiful theorem that has implications for today's computers.

You had said "Then, how do you distinguish data and software. One important point of theory of computing is precisely that there is no such distinction, thanks to Gödel numbering."

As you mention in your answer data can become a program and get executed - the real world implication of this is malware - which is "data" distributed by hackers

It's all bits going into logic gates

At the lowest level, the computer does not differentiate between program and data

I agree software is a physical representation, but it still is "soft" in the sense it is easily modifiable

It cannot complete execution without inputs

The source code without inputs cannot execute

If we call only the source code without the inputs software, we run into issues

Compiled binary is software too, isn't it?

When the program is executed, isn't the "data for the program" part of the compiled binary?

Can we agree that something is either software or hardware but not both?

@babou If software is hardware it is not software

There are many definitions of software, the most popular one being "everything on the computer except the hardware"

Software and hardware are 2 different things

What do you mean by "input may be considered software"?

Software is compiled to machine code, this is the binary that is fed to the billions of logic gates in the computer.

@babou hardware is fixed and physical. Software is the information, the inputs to the circuit. The inputs are not fixed, though they may be physical. If you agree with this, then we both agree. I somewhat liked with your answer, but I feel your answer does not directly answer the question asked. Software, at the lowest level is input to logic gates

I am just saying it is misleading to talk about computers without software, doing something. In the later part of your answer, you seem to try to say that the line between hardware and software is blurry. I disagree. A hardware circuit simulated using a computer program is software. It is hardware only if it physically exists and is not simulated.

The tape the turing machine runs on is software, isn't it?

"a computer C running a program P on input x can be seen as a "raw computer" (i.e., without software) running on an input which is a pair <P,x>" - this still does not make any sense, sorry. The input is the software.

When you say "raw computer (without software)" it sounds like you think a computer can do something without software. A computer can't do anything without software, it needs code to execute

I suggest you to see my answer written with the help of the State machine concept. With this concept you can understand exactly why a computer needs software to function.

What do you mean by a "raw computer"? That does not make much sense to me