Kraang Prime

choices and free will are definitely not one in the same. do not confuse possibilities with streered direction.

I rather enjoy discussing the fantasy that theists express and argue exists while stating things like "it's in the bible" and such, without it actually being in there --- so many people believe the words "free will" exist in the bible that the real apocalypse is finding out for themselves it isn't.

In other words, it is clear what His powers are, and how deep his omnisciense is.

From the notion of God, you need to look at the writings -- specifically the part where the names of "good" people are written into the foundation of everything long before you were ever born. This gives emphasis to the fact he knew which path you would "choose" as He knows how many hairs are on your head at any given time -- well before your were created.

this keeps up, i will use my "free will" and smash the friggen thing

speaking of "free will" -- in Canada, getting spammed with AMBER Alerts on my phone --- yay for mandatory alerts that we have no option to turn off.

One or the other is correct. If we have free will, there is no God, or God is not all knowing --- which is against pretty much all written about Him. If we don't have free will, this makes more sense where the is a God who is all knowing --- knowing everything about everything BEFORE creating them.

that is possibly why we are under the illusion of free will (eg, free to make our own choice and suprise whatever God) -- however those choices I do not believe are things we make as random as we feel we are. I feel those choices are already decided, but -- the reason to put the burden -- is definitely a good one, and that in itself leans towards God not being benevolent .

not to mention, the outcome is predetermined.

if all his creation, ends up worshipping him forever, or burning in a fiery wrath forever -- either option, does not seem like a good choice.

i believe our God is a bored God. One who uses his power to amuse at the expense of his creation.

correct. I do not believe that by our definition, our God is benevolent.

although, is God a loving God -- or a dictator to a creation he knows already who is not going to pass before he made them

I feel the non-existence of God would raise more problems than it would solve.

To me, it is like making an ice-cube, but then punishing it for melting in the sun

God created man, if God wanted man to not be "tempted" or to succumb to it -- He could have done so, but didn't.

The equation (at least from our limited existence) seems straighforward - God created all, including the Angels. God knows everything before it happens, omnipotence. Since he created Lucifer, and Lucifer disobeyed, God knowing this was going to happen means that God created the concept of good and evil -- if you are to go by the book anyway.

To state we have "free will", is to disregard God, and blaspheme any doctrine -- the reason, if he gave us free will, he would have mentioned it.

Exactly the point. If i created objects, some that go left, and some that go right --- then ... i lay down, all objects that go left are evil, and go into the fire. All objects that go right, are good, and get stored on a shelf. It is literally just as arbitrary and controlled as that. The objects have no say, even if they feel like they do. I already determined it.

So yes, if God is the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end, all that was and will be -- then yes, God also created what we label "evil" in fact, the very concept of "good" vs "evil" stems from anyone/anything that doesn't do as he wants ( even though he knew before they wouldn't ... He created them that way )

Who created Hell and cast one or more angel(s) that disobeyed him there ?

Did God know an Angel or some angels would betray Him ? Why would he allow them to betray him ?

Did god create the Angels ?

so what if that very concept was so that the experience itself could be completed - while he knows everything, every decision everyone would ever make from before His first spark of life -- to better experience that, easy individual must feel like they are special and unique and in the drivers seat.

consider this instead, that all of humanity is an expression of information gathering, while he knows the choices we would all make before we make them, our inability to realize our choices are not our own -- they are always His -- also prevents us from seeing past the illusion, and thus assuming we are making our own choice, doing things that would suprise God.

that notion assumes you are God.

@FrankHubeny - that is an excellent flip, however if you look into it, the 10 commandments, he foresaw he would issue those. He knew the deeds of man, before he created man.

meaning, in the eyes of humans, every choice you make, is random or based on your own thoughts and feelings -- to you. however to God, every encounter and occurance / feeling in your life, is all his creation -- he knows you. the number of hairs on your head. your name may or may not have been written into the foundation of the world, which determines if you go to heaven or hell.

@Chelonian - the illusion of free choice, vs actual free choice is simply a matter of perception of the one apparently making the choice -- the creation -- doing something that the creator ( God ) has no foreknowledge of before creating that creation.

"free will" is not something that is mentioned in the doctrine -- at all. assuming we are making our own choices and can suprise God, is at the very least, egocentric, and at worst - blasphemous.

@FrankHubeny - from the notion of God, "I am the beginning and the end, the alpha and the omege" and " and all those who live on the earth will worship the beast, everyone whose name has not been written since the foundation of the world in the book of life belonging to the Lamb who was killed" points more to the notion that everything is predetermined. Can you conceive of a God that created man, but does not know him ?

that makes more sense.

It was a link on the right of a ServerFault page. Had I known it would have been a load of crap, I would have definitely taken a screenshot of it lol

This was amusing. Link on StackEchange said there was 90 people in here. Guess who just got trolololololed

Hello shiny people