V'dibarta Bam

12:18 AM

@Monica Cellio and @double aa: What's ironic about this case is that if @moridoweedhyaagob just used the common
spelling of Gemara (or even Gemoro, as some here do) instead ofmaking up his own spelling of Gamoro, the G could be pronounced as a J. Have you thought about that, Doweedh?

MoriDoweedhYaAgob

1:01 AM

@SethJ jemoro? jemara? lol

@SethJ jamoro is what i will use if you will understand what i am saying. if not then ill stick with gamoro :)

Seth J

1:42 AM

@moridoweedhyaagob my point is that if you follow a G with an E you (often) get the sound of a J. So there's really no need to write a J.

Monica Cellio

1:54 AM

@MoriDoweedhYaAgob not speaking for Seth, but I would prefer that you use one of the three transliteration schemes that we all already deal with -- Ashkenazi, Israeli, or academic. I'm not motivated to put much effort into learning a fourth, especially one that is a small niche (you are the only person I've seen use this scheme). You'll do what works best for you; I'm just pointing out that it comes with a cognitive load for the rest of us, and you should not be surprised if sometimes we don't meet it.

MoriDoweedhYaAgob

3:31 AM

@SethJ ge sounds like j? geh not is in the throat or back of the tongue. j is your tongue hitting the front of the teeth

@MonicaCellio what is academic? also there is nothing really to learn. if you know the context of the word in which it is being used. and you know the word itself. you can make it out just fine ;)

Seth J

@MoriDoweedhYaAgob As in "germ" (or German/y). Or geriatric. Or genetic.

MoriDoweedhYaAgob

@SethJ do you read gemara as germany?

jermara

Seth J

3:47 AM

@MoriDoweedhYaAgob No. Dude, I'm just saying that you can pronounce "Ge" as "Je", so there is no need to spell it with a J if you use the more common spelling of Gemara (or even Gemoro) instead of Gamoro. And nobody would be confused. It would fit your pronunciation, and it would be clear to everyone here.

MoriDoweedhYaAgob

@SethJ how does gemara sound like j if you are reading it in regular hebrew?

@SethJ :( iim lost

Monica Cellio

12:27 PM

@MoriDoweedhYaAgob academic books/journals/etc tend toward things like 'w' for vav, 'h' with a dot under it for chet, precise use of the apostrophe to signal 'ayin, 'q' for kuf, etc. I suspect a lot of this was established back when just including the Hebrew was a bigger typesetting challenge, and knowing exactly what letters you're talking about s important.

@MoriDoweedhYaAgob it's obvious to you because you're writing it. To me what you write is sometimes a write-only language. I'm just saying that sometimes I'm just not going to make the effort to solve the Dhoweedh cypher; life is too short and this site is full of people whose writing I can understand. Sorry about that, but I figured it was better to tell you than quietly ignore you much of the time.

Seth J

1:20 PM

@MoriDoweedhYaAgob I. Can't. Help. You.

@MoriDoweedhYaAgob You really don't understand what I mean?

It's a letter 'G', for crying out loud. It has two sounds. One in the back of the throat, and one in the front of the mouth. The latter sound is identical to the sound a 'J' always makes. It is usually indicated by being followed by the letters 'I', 'E', or 'Y'. "Gemara" has an 'E' after the 'G': GEmara. Just because everyone else pronounces it like it has a back-of-the-throat sound, that does not mean you have to. And the choice of the letter 'E' is more intuitive than the letter 'A' anyway.

...so "Gemoro" works better all around: you get your 'J' sound (which is the important part), and everyone else can recognize the word because it's what they're used to. (Using 'O's after the 'M' and 'R' instead of an 'A' works, as I think others will recognize either.) Of course all of this is up to you; I'm just trying to explain my point. I hope it makes sense now.

Daniel

1:47 PM

I think this answer avoids the question altogether. Any proof with "loopholes" is not a valid proof. Also, any proof that relies on facts that are "hidden from human eyes" cannot be a logically deduced proof. This is why every "logical" proof of the existance of God that I have seen is unconvincing, which is exactly what the OP is asking about. — Daniel 4 mins ago

Am I the only one who thinks he's avoiding the question with that answer?

Seth J

2:39 PM

@Daniel I don't think he's trying to prove the existence of G-d. I think he's trying to show that contemporary models of proof don't work.

(I'm not sure it's a good answer, or that he makes his case, but I think that's his intent.)

Daniel

@SethJ I don't think he's trying to prove God in this answer. I do think that he's arguing that the common proofs of God are true, and that anybody who disagrees with them simply does not understand that people can't understand everything

But that defeats the purpose of a proof!

Seth J

@Daniel But that's not the question. The question is, do we need these proofs?

Daniel

The premise of the question is "Nowadays, many of the classic philosophical arguments for God's existence (argument from design, ontological, cosmological) have either been disproven, or simply found not to be very convincing."

My understanding is that he is trying to undermine that premise with his answer

But I think he makes a circular argument in the process

Seth J

@Daniel So downvote his answer.

Daniel

@SethJ I did. But since it also has two upvotes, I'm trying to understand why two people upvoted it

Because I wonder if I am missing something

Seth J

2:50 PM

@msh210 Thanks(rev.#34).

MoriDoweedhYaAgob

@seth-j yea but which hebrew speaking person pronounce Gemara as jemara? Yes ge makes a j sound in English but not in hebrew. So yes if it was an English word I would use ge obviously but this is not the case here :)

Daniel

@MoriDoweedhYaAgob He's saying that since you already write gamoro which is not in accordance with the way you would pronounce it, but is still different from the standard way that we expect it to be written, why not just write it the standard way "gemara" or even "gemoro"?

That way, it makes more sense to us because it looks more standard

And it even conveys the j sound because of the "ge" if you want to read it that way

unlike "gamoro" which does not

MoriDoweedhYaAgob

@monica-cellio I can do academic however I won't use dots or w.e I will use sS for a sSadi hH for a hHeth or a 7 aA for aAyeen or 3 I can deal with q for quf although I use g because I say guf :)

Daniel

@MoriDoweedhYaAgob why not just use the academic standard the way it is, like "dh" for the "th" sound as in "the"?

You don't need to make us understand exactly the way you pronounce it

MoriDoweedhYaAgob

I don't see the difference between ge n ga that is why I was typing gamoro instead of jamoro since atleast I have a g there so you know what I am saying

Daniel

2:59 PM

As long as you are conveying the proper spelling, it's fine

MoriDoweedhYaAgob

@daniel oh yea I missed th n dh

Monica Cellio

@MoriDoweedhYaAgob I actually find academic the hardest to read of the three styles I listed. But at least it has conventions. OTOH, I have no idea what you mean by sS or 7 ro 3, though I've seen you use the latter two and when you do I just shrug and move on.

MoriDoweedhYaAgob

I do use them when typing as evident from my typing

Monica Cellio

I've seen you use numbers in the middle of words in chat. I have no idea what you mean when you do this. And even if you tell me I'm probably not going to remember, because in my experience nobody else does that so I'll only ever see it from you.

Daniel

@MonicaCellio I think that the 3 is used for Ayin informally because it looks like the Arabic letter Ayin

Monica Cellio

3:03 PM

@Daniel thanks. Since I don't read Arabic that association is completely lost on me.

MoriDoweedhYaAgob

7 is hHeth 5 is sSadhee 3 is aAyeen

Also I use w for wow not v

Monica Cellio

ah, you mean 7 is chet and 5 is tzadi and 3 is 'ayin. I'm never going to remember that, sorry. And becuase you use vowels very differently than I do, I'm not going to get hints that way. (You use w for vav. See what I mean?)

Daniel

:9726046 Sorry, I got confused for a second

That was wrong

Monica Cellio

NP.

Off to meet my chevruta -- later, all.

Daniel

@MonicaCellio Learn something interesting :)

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