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7:14 PM
@ach yes
 
ach
oh ?
 
@ach Nothing to do with that command it is the TeX parser sees the space as the command terminator \AA hello doesn't make a space token the space just distinguished it from \AAhello
 
ach
really ?
is that only for TeX primitives ? I don't notice this behaviour with other commands
 
@ach No (\AA isn't a primitive) it is all commands that are multiple letters as opposed to a single non-letter like \&
 
@HarishKumar No, after \end{document} They must be the last thing in the file
 
7:17 PM
@ach otherwise you would get a space in {\bfseries hello} you don't because the space is eaten by the csname parser
 
ach
Indeed, I suppose I never consciously thought about that
so what's the recommended approach, define a new command \AAx which includes an \xspace or
use \AA{} or something along those lines ?
 
@ach no xspace was a silly idea:-)
 
ach
The package you mean ?
 
@ach that or \AA\
@ach yes
 
ach
if so please do tell as I have it in a number of my shorthand commands
I thought it rather made sense
 
7:20 PM
:9404919
29
A: Drawbacks of xspace

David CarlisleI originally implemented xspace a long time ago (for LaTeX 2.09) as, like most LaTeX beginners, I'd had a document where I had omitted a {} or \ and so had a missing space in the final document. The original version used a very simple nested test for following punctuation, but it could get the t...

 
ach
I see
 
@ach :-)
 
ach
@DavidCarlisle so the solution is: use \ after macro commands in text if a space is desired. Presumably if a character follows immediately one can simply use a space (which will be munched)
 
@ach yes
 
ach
is it ok to instead do some text (2.53 \AA{}) to avoid the funny looking extra space ?
 
7:26 PM
@ach Or of course use a more modern text encoding like utf--8 and just enter the Anstrom character as a character then there is no problem.
 
ach
Well indeed, but no encoding has inverse centimetres as a characters :)
(which is one of the commands I have defined for ease of use)
 
@ach You are supposed to use siunitx package (well I assume that will have metres rather than centimetres) it certainly has angstrom
 
ach
@DavidCarlisle
blasted editor
@DavidCarlisle what I meant to say was: I will take a look at siunitx, thank you. I'll also look to removing xspace from my preamble and fix any issues that arise.
 
@ach well xspace is Ok really, if you have documents using it there is no need to take it out as you then have to carefully check all use of the commands and put \ back. It just isn't the general solution that people think it is.
 
ach
Allright, I'll leave it for when I want to procrastinate
 
7:35 PM
@ach If you need advice you can always do:
!!/eightball should documents use xspace?
oh no Psmith isn't here, we are lost.:(
@PauloCereda ^^
 
@DavidCarlisle Oh!
!!/help
@PauloCereda Psmith, the TeX bot: Good afternoon! I'm Psmith, the friendly TeX bot - the p in my name is silent, as in pshrimp. I'm here as a companion to our fellow users in the typographic land. As you probably noticed, I always reply under Paulo's account, but do not despair, I say, my replies are always preceded by my own name. Enjoy your stay at TeX.sx! If you need any help, just ask our chat residents. Cheerio!
!!/eightball should documents use xspace?
@PauloCereda Psmith, the TeX bot: The great 8-ball says: too busy looking for bugs in longtable.
LOL
 
ach
!!/eightball should I use siunitx
 
@ach Psmith, the TeX bot: The great 8-ball says: better not tell you now.
 
@PauloCereda Thanks (Not sure Psmith was much help though:-)
 
@DavidCarlisle :)
!!/eightball Can you please be more helpful?
@PauloCereda Psmith, the TeX bot: The great 8-ball says: there's a disturbance in the Force.
 
ach
7:42 PM
hmm, siunitx seems like shooting pigeons with a cannon, but it does make things consistent...
 
@ach If you really don't like pigeons, a cannon sounds like a good option. :)
 
@ach You could be reported to the site moderator for such a remark:-)
 
ach
I see the anti-pigeon lobby is well represented
 
@PauloCereda :)
 
!!/eightball Is @JosephWright revengeful? :)
@PauloCereda Psmith, the TeX bot: The great 8-ball says: I say, old bean, do you really need to know?
 
7:44 PM
... don't post a catch-the-pigeon clip....
 
@cgnieder :)
user image
3
 
ach
Bonus question: are there old style numerals in txfonts ? I would look this up myself but my capabilities are severely limited by atrocious download speed (.2 mbps) thanks to our very own British Telecom.
 
@ach just looked at texdoc txfonts no specific oldsyle option 9and the word doesn't appear) but the math italic has them same as in cm fonts
 
ach
indee
d
 
kan
8:10 PM
Hello!!
@AlanMunn Hello! I just saw your message! Yes, I did well on the exams! :) And, nice to note that the user obliged. :)
 
@kan Hi Kan, I'm glad you did well on your exam. And most of our users are great here, so I wasn't too worried. :)
 
kan
Hah! :)
 
@PauloCereda Now if only it he was swimming and it was a duck.
 
MathJax ain't TeX, not even close.... not to mention the font crime
9
Q: Do we really need polynomials (In contrast to polynomial functions)?

temoIn the following I'm going to call a polynomial expression an element of a suitable algebraic structure (for example a ring, since it has an addition and a multiplication) that has the form $a_{n}x^{n}+\cdots+a_{1}x+a_{0}$, where $x$ is some fixed element of said structure, a polynomial fun...

 
@AlanMunn LOL don't forget the Jaws soundtrack playing in the background. :)
 
8:17 PM
@percusse Oi I just came off the MathJax Steering Committee Inaugural Teleconference be nice:-)
2
 
@DavidCarlisle Steer them towards beauty please
 
I have finally become an Apple purist. The last line of defence, my Android phone, has now been replaced by an iPhone. Resistance was futile.
 
@AlanMunn Self fulfilling prophecy :P
 
@AlanMunn iPhone 5? :)
 
@PauloCereda Yes.
 
8:19 PM
An apple a day keeps the doctor away. :)
@AlanMunn I'd get one, if it weren't so expensive here. :)
 
@percusse Hey, I tried, but all the good Android phones are just too damn big.
 
My Razr battery is awesome. Not to mention that now I can haz emailz too! :)
 
@percusse compare mathjax rendering in Chrome with math rendering in Chrome without MathJax (and it isn't really "they" so much as "he") Almost all the coding is Davide Cervone
 
@AlanMunn Oh come on, it was the others are too small approx. 2 years ago. :) I think both are too big but I have to buy an S4 because of the significant other has iPhone 5 and she wants to try S4
 
@percusse The font is really terrible and unreadable. Many questions are very silly: that's one of them.
 
8:23 PM
@DavidCarlisle Can I get the answer directly without installing Chrome? I really don't like that thing.
@egreg I still don't know why you don't hang out in Mathoverflow but in it's pretentious cousin. :)
 
@percusse replace "chrome" by any browser of choice (other than firefox) also for the math site polynomial question it's configured to use an excessively bold font but use teh right menu to choose native mathml (if using firefox) or svg rendering and you get a much better setting. You can not blame mathjax for user font choice, any more than you can Tex.
 
@percusse It's also a nice phone.
 
@AlanMunn In other news, I was in a library the other day and a girl answered her phone... in a tablet. A big tablet. I was like, nice brick, lady.
 
@DavidCarlisle I'm not belittling the efforts, I'm just saying. It has some mileage to cover. And that's not the only website using MathJax. Some blogs are also disturbing.
 
@PauloCereda A tablet is more compact than a tablet and a phone.
 
8:30 PM
@PauloCereda "Is that an iPad in your pocket, or are you just happy to see me?"
 
@percusse you'll probably see all big math sites use mathjax before long (elsevier science direct, AMS, wikipedia..) But You shouldn't compare in browser rendering to TeX, no more than you compare in browser rendering of the text to TeX.
 
@AlanMunn LOL
 
@percusse TeX is highly optimised for setting material to a fixed page size with fixed fonts, websites generally and mathjax in particular has to cope with displaying the same content on a 22" screen and Alan's new phone with user choice of fonts. that makes things ... different...
 
@DavidCarlisle If you care enough in the design phase HTML is quite beautiful though. I'm trying to say that math rendering is TeX-like but not quite. It's sometimes overfancy and doesn't match the coolness of the surrounding text. It's a little too serious in my opinion.
But that doesn't mean MathJax is bad. It's not TeX and I agree that it's not an easy task even to achieve this much
 
@DavidCarlisle And it looks pretty nice on my new iPhone, in fact.
 
8:38 PM
@AlanMunn a lot of people are banking on that to flog e-textbooks to the student market:-)
 
@DavidCarlisle It's bad enough that my students complain that the PDF I gave them of their textbook was hard to read (they didn't know they could print it), now I'm going to have them complaining that my problem sets aren't smart phone friendly.
 
@AlanMunn well fix them then or I'll be complaining too:-)
 
@DavidCarlisle When you develop tikz-qtree-mathjax I'll be there.
 
@AlanMunn there's already an xypic version, I think someone was working on tikz
 
@DavidCarlisle I don't actually know much about mathjax. Does it support lots of packages?
 
8:44 PM
@DavidCarlisle: ask about a backgammon package
/runs
 
kan
I can enter the symbols only at math mode...Yoav Fridman 4 hours ago
 
@AlanMunn basically latex+amsmath + a bit of chemistry where "support" varies from pretty accurate emulation to rough approximation of the syntax. It's best to think of it as a tex-like syntax for math rendering in a browser rather than "supporting latex" in any real way
 
@PauloCereda Maybe this summer...
 
@percusse I like to teach, not to be taught. ;-)
 
I'm sure we have a question addressing this elsewhere on this site:
1
Q: How to label text with equation number?

cxxlI'm trying to put equation numbers next to text as if said text was an equation. If I use \text{} in an align* environment, it typesets the text right-aligned and the whole environment centered, but that's not what I want. I would like the text to look like in an itemize or enumerate environment ...

 
8:58 PM
@egreg You can handle them. If things get though introduce some TeX notation and they will be distracted.
I'm using MS Word for the company and I can't believe how incredibly difficult to use it. Maybe I had too much TeX over time. I'm really like a grandma trying to figure how to Skype.
 
@percusse I have that experience now that I almost never use it anymore, even though I used to use it all the time. In fact it's now easier for me to compose in LaTeX and then copy and paste the PDF text into Word.
 
Interns are making fun of me all the time
Then today I switched to TeX today and blew their brains out but the documentation system doesn't accept PDFs.
Of course documentation from 3 years ago is not compatible with the new Word bla bla. I was really like in a Kafkaesque print shop :)
 
@percusse I find unzipping the docx then editing the xml in emacs works:-)
 
kan
I am at a loss to understand why people would like to use a proprietary software which is crappy, when there is a free software, which is MUCH better! There was a recent news here, where universities in Tamil Nadu about how they will have to use Microsoft Office if they'd like to have use Microsoft cloud-<I forgot what>. I sense some bundling which famously is now responsible for Elsevier's fortune dwindling...
 
@DavidCarlisle I've tried that too but apparently I don't know enough XML.
 
9:12 PM
@percusse Microsoft XML is like no other:-) (It is possible to make minor changes but doing anything to that xml or even extracting information from it is tricky)
 
@DavidCarlisle I really want to meet one of those developers. I want to understand how they can really manage to screw up with virtually the largest dev-base at hand.
 
@percusse They didn't screw up, they met their objectives
 
@DavidCarlisle I had the opportunity to talk to one of the IE guys and he confessed that IE is like the graveyard of discontinued projects. Almost every feature started as a great idea but died and then left in there not to cause any irrelevant loose end bugs
The cumulative result is of course a Frankenstein with light bulbs and organic matter here and there
However I also need to say that Outlook has become a monster since I've stopped using it. I'm really impressed that it works :) I've invited a conference room to a meeting to reserve it and also checked out other guys agendas to find a good time slot. I can't believe it worked after all it's MS :)
 
@percusse well yes IE is different again but Word's OOXML is a dump of Word's internal state with no real attempt to make the format usable for everything else, most notably despite being an xml format there is no tree structure, styling elements do not surround the text they style as Word (originally, when Micorsoft bought it) was a postscript based stack processor: text runs go on a stack then postfix style operators style the top of the stack...
 
@DavidCarlisle Yes, they have also explained why using Backspace and Delete matters at the end of the sentence due to that. It's just appaling.
 
9:20 PM
@percusse I draw the line at outlook, I've never used it:-)
@percusse I have some (a bit) of sympathy with them, I can't change obvious flaws in latex because users rely on them, They have half the planet as user base.
 
@DavidCarlisle You mean you don't want to be Florent? :P
 
@DavidCarlisle But they employ an incredible number of employees and had they decided to setup a small team within MS they would have fixed many things already from scratch. You are one of the core members of LaTeX team. Imagine you were all paid to make it better. I don't get MS mindset.
 
kan
@DavidCarlisle But, may be, there could be a fork, officially maintained by LaTeX Project, no?
 
And by paid I don't mean like donation money, MS project leader equivalent paychecks.
 
@kan latex3....
 
kan
9:27 PM
@DavidCarlisle Hah! :) I was thinking of patches for the LaTeX2e. But, may be its best to have LaTeX3 instead...
 
9:47 PM
!!/cricket
Psmith, the TeX bot, in fixed font mode: Let's take a look at the last cricket results:

- Surrey 237/10 &  229/10  v Durham 181/5 &  286/10 *
- Sri Lanka v Sri Lanka A
- Royal Challengers Bangalore v Kings XI Punjab
- Chennai Super Kings v Delhi Daredevils

Our cricket expert David might explain these results later on.
 
@PauloCereda Unicorns won at Oxford: unicorns40.co.uk/match-report.asp?mrid=27
 
@egreg Yay! :)
 
@PauloCereda OTOH, yesterday's match at Cardiff wasn't played: ecb.co.uk/scorecard/35131
!!/answer weather in Cardiff
 
Psmith, the TeX bot, in fixed font mode:

weather | Caerdydd, United Kingdom
temperature | 8 °C  (wind chill: 4 °C)
conditions | cloudy
relative humidity | 87%  (dew point: 6 °C)
wind speed | 7.7 m/s
(38 minutes ago)
8 °C
rain (all night)  |  clear (night to very early morning)  |  few clouds (very early morning to early morning)  |  partly cloudy (early morning onward)
between 7 °C and 10 °C
rain (all day)  |  partly cloudy (early morning to early afternoon)  |  cloudy (early afternoon onward)
 
Is it still winter time in Cardiff? The Welsh use different seasons, probably. ;-)
 
kan
10:08 PM
@egreg is now the official spokesman of the Cricket Club at TeX, LaTeX and Friends. :)
@PauloCereda ^^ Surprise! :-))
 
@kan Cool! Good old times of my Atari.
 
kan
There are so many niceties of this kind hidden in Google. :)
 
10:23 PM
!!/answer weather in East Lansing
 
@kan A real expert indeed. ;-)
 
kan
@egreg Indeed! :)
 
@AlanMunn Pehaps it's so bad that Psmith refuses to answer.
 
@egreg It was -2 C here this morning. But it's a beautiful sunny day.
 
@AlanMunn Springtime!
 
10:33 PM
is there a variant of alignat which lets me put one of the columns at a fixed distance from the left margin?
 
@egreg Well sort of. We tend to jump from winter to summer most of the time. On Wed it's supposed to be 27.
 
(I'm wrting long sequences of equalities, and putting a very short explanation in each line, and I'd like all these to be at the same position in all instances)
 
kan
@MarianoSuárez-Alvarez You can use align with && to indicate the beginning of explanation...
Oh, wait! I did not see the first message...
 
+1 for making me laugh — Carter Pape 2 mins ago
 
10:48 PM
@egreg That's basically why I voted, too :)
 
@egreg you stoop so low as to make OPs happy, no wonder you are winning.
 
kan
!!/battle
Oh, Paulo is not here....
I'll wait for tommorrow to upvote that answer.
 
ach
I feel so silly, didnt' realize texdoc <package name> finds the documentation for you ...
 
kan
@ach Oh, then, time to look up what else texdoc can do... :)
 
ach
as I can see, not much, beyond launching associated viewer ?
 
kan
10:58 PM
You can search using texdoc in the texmf directory for one...
@ach texdoc texdoc :)
 
ach
Documentation for texdoc could not be found
@kan first thing I tried :)
 
kan
@ach Unfair! Works for me! :)
@ach OK, here: tug.org/texdoc
 
ach
I am on *win so I am actually using mthelp
 
@ach You can go to texdoc.net
 
ach
@egreg well, that's a description of TexLive texdoc
oh by the way, if I have a page layout question (not necessarily TeX linked), do I understand correctly that the proper SE would be graphic design ?
 
11:37 PM
@egreg Thanks :)
Installed emacs and giving it a try. Yuck...... (I shouldn't recommend it to beginners)
 
@HarishKumar yuck??
 
kan
@HarishKumar You'd enjoy it after some time...
 
@kan 25 years:-)
 
ach
Seems vim stock is not so high :0
 
kan
Have you gotten the key bindings for common things straight? @HarishKumar
@HarishKumar I enjoy using emacs... much better in a lot of ways. But, my use is still only a little part of what emacs can do...
 
11:46 PM
@DavidCarlisle I followed you ;-) I thought if David says, why not. But it looks good except some initial curve. :)
@kan I got it working well and did lot of customization too. Yesterday I lived with emacs.
 
kan
@HarishKumar Very nice to hear!
 
@HarishKumar It's worth following the tutorial to the end, it only takes a few minutes (control-h t)
 
@DavidCarlisle Sure. I have decided that I should be comfortable with emacs. Worst things when happen! listen! David is there with us :) I will trouble you here David ;-)
 
@HarishKumar hmm Perhaps you should use vim and harass @PauloCereda and @NicolaTabot instead:-)
2
 
kan
@DavidCarlisle LOL
 
11:57 PM
 
ach
@DavidCarlisle first time I started vim I struggled to figure out how to even get out of the program :0
 
@DavidCarlisle That is first in my TODO list after I am done with emacs ;-)
But vim gives me headache in choosing the engine. emacs is better in that aspect (though not entirely better)
 
@ach everybody has that problem. The only vi(m) command worth knowing is :wq to get out of the silly thing
 
kan
Apr 12 at 16:40, by David Carlisle
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