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8:00 PM
@GnomeSlice Even as players they are exercising the art of game design that is not on topic for us.
 
@fbueckert What, says who.
 
@badp But... game related!
 
It's certainly not on-topic on gamedev.se
 
5
A: Do "map-editor" questions belong here?

Grace NoteThink about what the purpose of building a map is in the game. There's two reasons it is done - as a required part of game play to get the full experience (what I'm guessing that Little Big Planet falls under), or as an accessory that creates a new experience. The latter is the only one that real...

 
(This stemmed from the "That logic means we allow anything and everything about games. Period." comment earlier)
 
8:01 PM
@GnomeSlice Seriously? That sounds exactly like what they'd accept.
 
@fbueckert Well, my gut opinion is that that a question like that would be on topic, because game music is an interest of mine for a while and I consider myself knowledgeable. But that's just me.
 
@GnomeSlice "certainly" says who?
 
Okay, I'm not sure if you guys are being serious...
 
@GnomeSlice We're about playing games.
Not making them.
 
Because you're not developing a game when you use the TF2 map editor.
 
8:01 PM
Game Development - Stack Exchange is for professional and amateur video/computer game developers. If you have a question relating to ...

→→→ game design (level design, gameplay, mechanics, etc) ←←←
asset pipelines (creation, storage, editing, etc)
game-specific programming issues (engine architecture, game-related APIs, networking, tools, etc)
project management (testing, team management, scheduling, publishing, etc)
game industry (careers, trends, technology, etc)
 
If gamedev.se accepted a question about that, then they are dumb.
 
@GnomeSlice Map creation is very firmly in development territory.
 
0
Q: Need help with rally point and spawning in StarCraft 2 map editor

user8447I want to make a Tower Defense game using the StarCraft 2 editor. How can I make a rally point to control AI appear at one point and go to specific point? How do I make creep spawn properly at specific times?

 
But most players using map editors are not game developers.
 
e.g.
@GnomeSlice You are still developing the map for other players.
 
8:02 PM
@badp Hey, look who answered it.
 
@Brant That's fair. That's why I'm bringing it up; is this something we want?
 
One of the mods from Gaming.SE answered it. Coincidence?
 
@GnomeSlice Yeah, @RavenDreamer's been doing some game designing
@GnomeSlice Gamers and game designers overlapping? Not at all!
 
@badp This isn't even asking about map design!
 
@GnomeSlice An Arqade mod answered it! That means it belongs on Arqade!
That logic, quite frankly, stinks.
 
8:03 PM
@badp He's trying to figure out how to use the editor, not asking about game design, this should be on Arqade...
 
@GnomeSlice No. It. Should. Not.
 
bvlerijgjrltrtghbrji you guys are dumb
Or maybe it's me
 
Would you want to bring a game dev mod here?
 
@GnomeSlice Pot, meet kettle.
 
One of us is dumb!
Seriously guys, how the shit does that belong on gamedev.se
 
8:05 PM
2 mins ago, by fbueckert
@GnomeSlice Map creation is very firmly in development territory.
 
@GnomeSlice Does what. What are you talking about
 
I don't see how you can classify making maps as in playing games territoy.
 
@fbueckert He's not asking about map creation specifically. His question is about how to use a feature of the editor.
 
@GnomeSlice The editor itself has nothing to do with playing games.
 
It has nothing to do with developing games either.
 
8:06 PM
@GnomeSlice And he is asking about map creation specifically. Because he's still asking a question about using a map creation tool
 
Creating maps for Starcraft does not make you a Starcraft developer. Or a game developer at all.
 
@Brant It's still just Dr. Teeth.
 
@GnomeSlice Yes, and the question wasn't closed. It wasn't upvoted either, but still it's on topic.
 
@GnomeSlice The logic you're using is basically going, "It's inside a game, that makes it on-topic."
 
If I wanted a frightening Dr. Teeth, I could've gone with this one:
 
8:07 PM
@GnomeSlice Says you. It doesn't give you that job title, but certainly it's what you're doing.
 
@fbueckert That's exactly my point, because trying to separate out all of the non game shit from a game is just pointless.
 
@LessPop_MoreFizz You still have your old gravatar when I'm at work, but the new one from home. It's like @OrigamiRob all over again.
 
@badp I bet the Starcraft developers would disagree with you, but okay.
 
@GnomeSlice No, it's not.
 
8:07 PM
@fbueckert Yes it is.
 
Arqade is about playing games.
Not using the included map editor to make more maps.
 
And that's my trigger to forcibly put an end to this discussion in chat
 
It's about gaming, you mean.
 
We're gamers.
 
This room was placed in timeout for 1 minute; the topic of this room is "General Chat Room for Arqade.com. The main quarters of Arqade's SEI AskQuestion Mothership, wherein we aim our LAZERS at arqade cabinets, fancy new spaceship logos and the eyes of people who would like to deny others the joys of pancakes." - conversation should be limited to that topic.
If you wish to discuss this any further please bring it to meta, thank you.
opens an incognito tab to enjoy the countdown
 
8:09 PM
That was annoying :P
 
Mod abuse, etc.
 
I am trying to figure out why we're not allowed to discuss site policy on the chat room for the site.
5
 
How did badp become a moderator again?
 
@badp ಠ_ಠ
 
ಠ_ಠ
 
8:09 PM
@badp What that really necessary?
 
@StrixVaria There's a point past which discussions become circular and not constructive
We've reached that point
 
@badp Says who? You?
 
@GnomeSlice Actually, yeah; he's a mod.
 
@GnomeSlice Yes, that's exactly who says that.
 
They have to make judgement calls.
 
8:10 PM
The default room time out message is dumb, please disregard it.
 
7
A: Do "map-editor" questions belong here?

badpDistinctions should be made. Questions about using bundled modification tools "What does 'external height' field mean in the Darwinia map editor?" "What's a good tutorial to start making Quake 3 maps?" These questions definitely belong here, in my opinion. They are about using tools provided...

So why does the top upvoted answer say questions about bundled map tools are okay?
 
It was asked two years ago, mind you. Back when we still wanted game rec questions.
You'll have noticed I've changed my mind in the meantime.
 
@badp Someone linked it to me just now as a response.
So it's clearly still relevant.
 
At any rate, what's written in there is not revolting to me. It's just not what I think the community wants. Says I.
 
@LessPop_MoreFizz You seem to appear more nightmarish with every consequent incarnation.
 
8:12 PM
Great job guys, you downvoted it enough just now to make me wrong, stellar work.
 
@GraceNote I'm not using that one! :P
 
@GnomeSlice Welcome to a community.
If we all got along, and it was all happiness and kittens and flowers, something would be really, really wrong.
 
@fbueckert Well, yes, you'd be my mind-controlled subjects... but that's neither here nor there.
 
@Powerlord Just pointing out that people live on strife.
 
Fucking people.
 
8:14 PM
We don't handle life without challenge very well.
 
Is Moderator status a 'For Life' appointment on SE sites?
 
Yes.
 
@James More or less.
 
I'm sorry if that bothers you @James.
 
@James Indeed. Unless they voluntarily step down, or run into an irreconcilable problem.
 
8:15 PM
Who needs people.
 
@James In theory, no. In practice, yes.
 
@GnomeSlice Uh...you do.
Everyone does.
 
@Powerlord In theory, yes, however, there is the ability of SE staff to remove the position.
 
0
Q: Mining Cidhna Mine

PerceptionOk, so I've run into a Cidhna mine bug, whereupon entering the area after completion of the quest No One Escapes Cidhna Mine, all the ore veins become effectively unuseable. Instead of the normal mining interation, when clicked on they instead pop up the rest dialog! As background information, I...

0
Q: How to farm Pirate's Booty challenge

Orc JMRA challenge "Pirate's Booty" asks you to open lots of Pirate Weapon Chests. Obviously, most pirate chests in existence are in the Leviathan's treasure room, but it is only accessible twice during the main and the encore (dammmm, I LOVE this word in English) quest. What is the best route to farm...

 
@LessPop_MoreFizz This.
 
8:15 PM
@badp No bother, just curiosity :) I remembered going through that election way back when and just did not remember another since then
 
There is no fixed term for a moderator. Their term of service ends when they resign, or when they are removed from the position, presumably for reasons of misconduct.
 
@TheRestOfYou Nice range of responses :D
 
Just out of curiosity, why don't all of the Minecraft questions about building maps get moved to gamedev?
 
@GnomeSlice because building maps is the whole element of gameplay in Minecraft
 
@GnomeSlice Cause that IS the game in that case.
 
8:16 PM
@badp So if it's only part of the element of gameplay it doesn't count.
Okay.
 
@GnomeSlice Minecraft is not an add-on editor for some other game.
 
@James Lots of games have built in map editors.
 
@GnomeSlice It's consistent with the part where Arqade it's about playing games and not making them.
 
@GnomeSlice Think of it this way: Are you playing a game? Is the point of the game to build stuff?
 
@badp I don't know about you, but when I play around with map editors in games, I am playing the game. I get enjoyment out of messing with various elements like that.
 
8:17 PM
If the game is about making maps or games then yes, making maps or games is on topic.
 
@GnomeSlice Yeah, that is what was said man... Minecraft is not one of those games is all :)
@badp So RPG Maker questions are on topic here?
 
@James Is RPG Maker a game?
 
@badp Used to be. not sure about that new version I saw.. much more edity like.
 
Gamification doesn't count.
 
I'd call it such in the same vein that Game Maker is a game.
 
8:19 PM
then apparently we would accept questions about them? I don't quite think such questions would remain open for long honestly.
Feel free to try
 
@badp I wouldn't call Game Maker a game.
 
@GraceNote Had a friend use that for a project. They hate the software as its anti-piracy measures are.. very aggressive even if you have a valid license for it.
 
@GraceNote It's not a game by any stretch.
 
@GraceNote You sphinx.
 
@James Really? I used to play around with the free edition a lot, and I thought it was pretty good.
@badp Why did you suddenly change your mind anyway.
 
8:21 PM
@GnomeSlice If it thinks you are outside of its license, it just starts deleting your game assets and the like.
 
@GnomeSlice Suddenly? It's been two years. Besides, I didn't have a diamond then and I do have it now.
 
@James That's terrible.
 
@GnomeSlice I think that were his point.
 
@GnomeSlice Yeah, it erased their stuff 2-3 times in the last week or so of the project.
 
@GnomeSlice In the same vein that this was my point.
 
8:21 PM
@GnomeSlice And replaces it with skull and crossbones.
 
@badp In the message I replied to. You suddenly decided we could try allowing them.
Be consistent man.
 
@GnomeSlice If it's a game and the gameplay of the game is making games then yes, we would accept questions about playing the game that is making other games
 
@GnomeSlice That was in response to RPG Maker specifically, in response to my misleading comment that, when misread, implies that RPG Maker is a game where the gameplay is as such.
 
@GraceNote Oh. I thought he was talking about map editors.
rgrbskegbjkelgbleigh4erbfg
 
Anyways, should I be making a meta question about whether or not we want to allow questions that are only orthogonal to playing games, just because the artifact in question came from a game?
 
8:22 PM
Just like if Minecraft is a game and the gameplay of the game is making maps then yes, we would accept questions about playing the game that is making maps.
I hope that clears it up.
 
@James That's evil
 
@badp See: Game Dev Story.
 
@badp Map editors are part of the gameplay for me when I play games. It's like character creation, and we allow those, do we not?
 
@BenBrocka On a + side, they are now swapping to Unity moving forward cause of it all.
 
On the other hand if Empire Ages is a game and the gameplay of the game is building an empire and conquering the world then no, we would not accept questions about making maps because it is not playing the game.
 
8:23 PM
@fbueckert Fun game :)
 
@James I concur.
 
@fbueckert This gave the regulars here headaches for a while each time we got questions.
 
I just don't understand the argument that 'we are about playing games and nothing else' when we have shitloads of stuff that doesn't adhere to that very strictly.
 
@GraceNote Were people asking why such odd combinations were good or such known good combinations sucked?
 
6
Q: Is there a way to cleanup or repair savegames?

NobbZWe are having issues with crashes in Fallout: New Vegas on the PS3. We tried our savegames on another PS3 and encountered the same problems. Starting a new game on our PlayStation, or loading the savegame of a friend does not have any crashes. My girlfriend's savegame does crash very often, mo...

 
8:25 PM
In other news, f-f-f-f-facedesk!
 
For example.
 
@James No, we got questions like this and this.
 
@badp What is this an example of
 
@fbueckert LOL
 
8:26 PM
@GnomeSlice A question that doesn't adhere to playing games very strictly; closed and deleted
 
So... for Evil Genius, if I asked "How should I build my island?" it'd be OK, but if I asked "How should I build my island?" it'd be not acceptable?
 
@GraceNote Looks like a good Q and A but I can see the comments are .. horribly off topic
 
@GnomeSlice 10K only, that is.
 
despite FRAPS being mainly a "gamer" tool.
 
@badp One question, great. My point was that we have tons that aren't.
 
8:27 PM
Also, I can't spell today.
 
@fbueckert ...What?
 
If you will, a counter example to the example you haven't made yet
 
@James They are good Q&A, the main thing is that as we peruse the question list, the titles make everyone double-take.
 
Wow
 
The point being that one question I'm asking how the base should be built on the island while the other is asking how an island should be built for the game.
 
8:27 PM
@GraceNote haha, In the past those types of titles have been applauded :)
 
And you can't tell which from the question.
 
@GnomeSlice The fact we aren't too strict on this stuff makes me personally happy, don't be mistaken. I would've loved Arqade to also cover game design in general, for example, but that's not what Arqade chose to became.
 
1
Q: I've subscribed to an item on Steam Workshop - how do I download it?

AlexNow that the Portal 2 Perpetual Testing Initiative is out, I've been looking at some of the available maps, but I'm not sure how to actually download them. I've gone into an author's or collection's page, where I can subscribe to an item. I've clicked the Subscribe button and the subscriptions h...

Not about gameplay, for example.
 
@GnomeSlice It's about a gaming service.
 
@Powerlord Presumably the body text would be different. You shouldn't be closing based on title alone.
 
8:28 PM
@GraceNote That kind of title is the best kind of title
 
Allowed on the same vein as we allow questions about consoles and the internet services thereof.
 
@Powerlord You do realize you edited it so that both quoted questions are identically worded right?
 
@badp If we're going to be strict, we should do it consistently, is my point.
 
@James That was the point, yes.
 
@SaintWacko It is. Doesn't change the amount of headaches they induced at the time.
 
8:29 PM
@badp A map editor is a gaming service.
@badp Besides, you can get movies and software and shit on Steam now.
 
@GnomeSlice Arqade is strictly about playing games and using gaming consoles and the services of the gaming consoles.
 
14
Q: Can I make mods for Skyrim?

Warren  PCan regular owners of the Skyrim game make mods for skyrim? Will it include mod tools, level editors, etc? If not, are there any customizations that end users can do?

 
I should have just copy/pasted them, but since I made mistakes in each of the two sentences I screwed it up on the first try.
 
@Powerlord "How is this?" different from "How is this?" then to get to the point of Island vs Base On Island?
 
31
Q: Who's the brown dinosaur in Braid?

Qiaochu YuanAt the end of each world, there's a brown dinosaur who tells you that the princess is in another castle. I get the Mario reference, but is the brown dinosaur a reference to something else or is it a character original to Braid?

Neither of those are about gameplay
46
Q: How much time has passed between the events in Portal 1 and 2?

KeenAt the start of Portal 2, it's clear that time has passed. You've been woken up every few months for physical and mental fitness tests, until something goes wrong and you're left in stasis for much longer. How long is Chell, your character, in stasis? How much time has passed between the end o...

 
8:29 PM
@OrigamiRobot I was reading a bit about GURPS yesterday. Sounds like a lot of fun
 
Oi
 
@GnomeSlice "Lore"
 
How do you ignore a person temporarily again?
 
2
Q: How does the "face import" patch work on Xbox 360?

CheeseNhamToastI've completed Mass Effect 3 and just started a second playthrough before learning that this patch was released. How do I get my original Shep from 1 & 2? Do I need to start a new game with an ME2 import, or can I use the ME3 end-game import? I'm assuming the former, but would I then lose al...

 
@GnomeSlice We've had that discussion a few days ago. You'll see the discussion was closed a few days ago with an example about how to watch Netflix on the PS3 - open, answered and upvoted
 
8:30 PM
@GnomeSlice From what @badp said, this question needs to be moved to gamedev
 
@GnomeSlice It's asking where the mod making tools are in Steam, not how to make them
 
@badp Okay. Good.
 
@GnomeSlice Game lore questions are also on topic.
@GnomeSlice This is about using the XBOX 360. See above.
 
So stuff about services offered on consoles are allowed. Excellent.
 
Why are we still even discussing this
 
8:31 PM
@tiddy I think everyone is bored
 
@GnomeSlice Services offered by consoles.
 
@badp There was a thing about people not wanting to allow shit about non-gaming services of a console (which I disagreed with)
 
You're letting a child lead a conversation
 
OH, so questions about how Netflix works are on topic now?
 
@tiddy I think people are trying to see how long it will take for @badp to mute the channel again.
 
8:31 PM
@SaintWacko I am also but I want to set the record straight, sorry.
 
@tiddy Shut up, I'm not a child.
 
You are
I can't believe you're still around
 
@tiddy Oi, be nice.
 
@GnomeSlice Watch out...
 
@tiddy And what is that supposed to mean
 
user15026
8:32 PM
@tiddy I think you need to relax a little.
 
@tiddy My discussion is idiocy?
My apologies
 
This place is a day care sometimes
 
user15026
@tiddy You know you can leave any time you choose, yeah?
3
 
Do you leave a restaurant when a child is screaming
 
@tiddy "Be nice" is one of the headers in the FAQ
4
 
user15026
8:33 PM
@tiddy I have, yes.
 
@tiddy Not if you're @Spugsley
 
Well sorta.
 
@tiddy I'm not a child.
 
Yeah you are
 
GNOMESLICE GODDAMMIT
 
8:34 PM
Just because I feel strongly about something and want to defend it doesn't make me juvenile.
 
@GnomeSlice Annnd there you just lost the high ground man
 
user15026
@GnomeSlice Don't take the bait, man.
 
You'll be treated like one your entire life until you figure it out
 
8
Q: Why am I unable to import my Mass Effect 2 saves?

KillianDSI just bought ME3 but I don't seem to be able to import any save games from ME2. I even launched ME2 to be sure I certainly finished the game, which I did (and Shepard's alive). I triple-checked that the save files are in the right folder (Documents\BioWare\Mass Effect 2\Save). Is there any reas...

@badp what about that one ^ ?
 
Wait, is someone other than me being mean to @GnomeSlice? I always miss all the fun.
 
8:36 PM
@GnomeSlice I think the general view is that if its overall related to the game, how do I make a mod for XYZ, is there an editor for ABC, Can PDS play game ASD etc then it is on topic here. But if someone wants to know how to use those editors for making a mod or a map or the like, then its off topic man.
 
@LessPop_MoreFizz ಠ_ಠ
 
@GnomeSlice It's about a feature in the game, importing save data from a previous entry in the series.
 
@GnomeSlice Loading game files is very much about playing a game.
 
@GraceNote Aren't editors features of the game??
 
So, how about them ?
 
8:37 PM
@GnomeSlice Depends on your outlook. That's the major disconnect here.
 
@GnomeSlice I think everyone is saying their existence is a feature but how to USE them is not.
 
Am I the only one who counts using map editors as playing the game? Because that's how I feel about it when I use them.
 
@OrigamiRobot Around.
 
Alright, fine. I'll be the guy who disagrees.
 
@GnomeSlice It may very well be the case here and that's why there's disagreement. But we're still just ourselves, not the whole of all things.
 
8:37 PM
@GnomeSlice While you are likely not alone, that is not the main view of users of this site currently
 
Okay then, sorry.
 
I mean, I'd say there's a bit of difference between a game whose map editor complexity demands a separate utility entirely, compared to, say, Battle City's map editor system.
 
@GraceNote I'm not familiar with that.
 
user15026
@GraceNote I am not sure what your last sentence means, or how it relates. But that might just be my very tired brain.
 
@RonanForman Beware the evils of Thaumcraft!
 
8:39 PM
@James That's a huge one.
 
@James What did you do?
 
@SaintWacko @RonanForman It crashes the server every 10min or so :D
 
@James What is it?
 
@GnomeSlice It's an old NES game which you drive a tank and shoot people. There's a simple tile-based custom map setting you can do to make your own maps in-game and play them. I could also say Loderunner's map editor in the same vein.
 
I seem to recall questions about how Minecraft randomly generates worlds on the site before. Minecraft is about building the world... but that kind of question is clearly an implementation detail.
 
8:40 PM
@James Well shrink it then.
 
@SaintWacko Its a Vis Node, the thing that recharges wands and such
 
@James That's huge o.0
 
They just grew a HUGE one.. and well. BAM
 
@GraceNote How is that different just because it's less complex?
 
@RonanForman Its not on My server :D
 
8:40 PM
@James Wow
 
@James Wheee, minimap!
 
@Powerlord I asked one actually.. and shortly after Notch rewrote world gen :D
 
Geez, look at the flux level
 
@GnomeSlice Haha, default part of the FTB packs these days :)
 
@GnomeSlice Yes, actually, that's much the root of it. When a custom map development is along the lines of, say, recreating a shmup or recreating Contra in the engine of StarCraft 2's map editor, that's an entirely different realm of logic, knowledge, and utility.
 
8:41 PM
@SaintWacko Yeah ist overcharged by what, 6000???
 
@James Is it Rei's Minimap? Or a different one that comes with it.
 
@GnomeSlice Rei's
 
@James Sweet.
 
@GnomeSlice Very Very.. we do have issues with it saving/loading mystcraft age waypoints though currently.
 
My most watched video is a brief demo of the minimap...
And I can't even monetize it because of the music.
 
8:43 PM
@GnomeSlice My accounts copyright contention should be ending today... No more 15min max uploads :D
 
n cgymnftyjdtjndmufygcjysrtdyhj vl
 
The only difference between questions about making Contra in the SC2 editor and making Contra with, say, Game Maker, is the tool you're using. But the core of the questions remains on the edge of developing a game - the tools don't change the nature of the task. That's the outlook this was taken from, and we expanded it to map editing in general just to avoid ninwilking on fine details of when a map editor is or is not complex enough.
 
@James How long does it take them to go away?
 
@GraceNote That expansion to map editing in general just strikes me as ... bad. But okay.
 
@GnomeSlice I can understand why, especially given certain games.
 
user15026
8:49 PM
Does anyone know why I can't turn Pandora's shuffle off?
 
user15026
Never mind. I am just an idiot
 
Oh holy shit there's a new Pere Ubu album?
 
Exactly where does this fine line sit with Portal 2? There are two versions of the map editor: One in-game and one out of game. The one in-game is used to create maps for the Perpetual Testing Initiative game mode.
The out of game mode one (Portal 2 Authoring Tools) also doesn't have the restrictions that the in-game one does.
 
@Powerlord I have no experience with either of these so I can't give comment.
 
@HamletEJ You do kind of get a pit in your stomach whenever you see an egg avatar. Just saying.
World of Warcraft Lead Systems Designer learns the first rule of answering questions from the public on Twitter.
 
8:58 PM
@LessPop_MoreFizz Is it "Don't?"
 

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