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7:01 PM
Heya
Does anyone know how to obtain an arc over two letters in latex?
I am looking for something similar to $\widehat{AB}$
Only that the hat should be a smooth curve
 
@N3buchadnezzar
\begin{align}
\overset{\frown}{AB}
\end{align}
${}{}$
 
@JayeshBadwaik Looks ugly
 
@N3buchadnezzar hmm...
 
$$\stackrel{\scalebox{2}{$\frown$}}{AD}$$
This one works in latex, but it is still missing some
 
7:16 PM
@JayeshBadwaik Package does not work
$$\newcommand\bigfrown[2][\textstyle]{\ensuremath{%
\array[b]{c}\text{\scalebox{2}{$#1\frown$}}\\[-1.3ex]#1#2\endarray}}$$
$\bigfrown{AB}$
 
$\bigfrown{AB}$
 
Hmm, well it works in Latex so ^^
 
Hmm..
good then.
 
I am going to make alcohol for tomorow
Bought fishermans friends, and candy.
 
hmm, so your matlab program finally worked?
 
7:20 PM
The basics works now, advanced functionality need to be added later.
 
okay...
 
Going to melt the candy later tonight, and pour it into a bottle with 40%
 
So, will you be serving out Wine Basic 1.24 or something similar?
 
The rest is going to made into jello
 
ohh. nice. nice.
 
7:22 PM
And play N64
 
7:42 PM
I hate "How come..." style questions. To the bone.
 
@PeterTamaroff How come?
 
: )
 
@MattN. But really, they are annoying.
Just ask them striaghtforwardly.
It seems like a challenge to mathematics, or something of the sort.
 
@PeterTamaroff Like "Why can't I divide by zero?" instead of "How come I can't divide by zero?"?
 
7:45 PM
@MattN. Precisely.
 
@PeterTamaroff I think the question remains the same. Next time someone asks that I'll post "Because."
 
@MattN. Sire, can you talk about the Baire Category Theorem and related stuff?
 
@PeterTamaroff Sure. Shoot.
 
@MattN. Well, I'm just interested in hearing a little about it. For instance, I know that every complete metric space is a Baire Space.
And that intuitively a Baire Space is "big enough" for limiting processes to take place.
For example, if a complete metric space is countable, it must have an isolated point.
(By BCT)
 
But quick question: is Sire a meme I don't know of?
 
7:49 PM
@MattN. Nah, I just recall that many guys use "sir" respectfully here, and I like to fool around with that.
A space is said to be of first category if it can be written as the countable union of nowhere dense subsets, correct?
 
Ok. Then let's "recall" the definition: A space is Baire if a countable intersection of open dense sets is dense.
 
@MattN. Yes.
 
Ok. And a space is of first category if it is a countable union of nowhere dense sets.
 
@MattN. I thought it was "nowhere dense".
 
And you are quite right.
 
7:53 PM
@MattN. =P
 
Therefore we know, by the Baire category theorem, that a complete metric space cannot be of first category. (Just stating the "obvious")
 
So this means it is very "small", right?
@MattN. Yes.
 
Well. Let's see.
Hm.
 
@MattN. For example, $\Bbb Q$ can be written as $$\bigcup_{i\in \Bbb N} \{r_i\}$$ where $r_i$ is an enumerations of rationals.
And thus it is of first category, since each singleton is nowhere dense in $\Bbb Q$, yes?
 
Therefore $\mathbb Q$ must be incomplete because the singleton sets are nowhere dense.
 
7:56 PM
With the usual metric.
@MattN. Right.
 
@PeterTamaroff Yes.
I'm trying to come up with an example of a Baire space now.
 
@MattN. OK
 
I can both drive a taxi, and do mathematics
What do I win ?
 
@N3buchadnezzar A fishslap.
 
: )
 
7:59 PM
Wooop Wooop
 
It's not clear to me what such a space should look like.
Perhaps one can think of the intersection as a sequence of sets.
 
@MattN. Maybe we can ask @BrianMScott !
 
He's not here : ) Also, I want to read about it on my own first before I ask someone.
But you can go ahead of course.
Then a Baire space would be a space in which the limit of every decreasing sequence of open dense sets is dense.
 
@MattN. That is nice.
 
The space must have a somewhat "entangled" topology otherwise I'm sure we could find two open dense sets such that their intersection is not dense.
 
8:05 PM
Isn't it true that a locally compact Hausdorff space is a Baire space?
 
But then $\mathbb R$ would be a Baire space.
Is it?
 
pretty sure it is
Baire spaces are nice, IIRC
 
@MattN. Yes! It is!
 
What's an example of an open dense set in $\mathbb R$? Something like $\bigcup_{n\in \mathbb N, q \in \mathbb Q} B(q, 1/n)$?
 
Every complete metric space is a Baire space.
 
8:07 PM
That's all of it : /
Oh! Sorry! I meant it the other way around: I want an example of a first category space!
I'm tired : /
 
Rationals with usual topology?
 
@MattN. What about taking the union of all the boundaries of balls centered at the rationals?
Hmmm.... I didn't really think about that
I mean over $\Bbb R^2$
and with certain radii...
 
@MattN. That would be all of $\Bbb R$. Perhaps you want something like, letting $\{q_i\}$ enumerate the rationals, the open dense set $\displaystyle \bigcup_{i\ge1}B(q_i,2^{-i})$.
 
@anon I know I noticed ^
 
Life is like a sewer. What you get out of it depends upon what
you put into it.
 
8:11 PM
@N3buchadnezzar But you always get crap?
 
: D
 
does anything nice ever come out of a sewer???
 
there is something called sewage treatment, so I'm going to say water
 
@OldJohn Babies
 
also, fertilizer, according to Wikipedia
 
8:13 PM
Crappy neighbours.
@N3buchadnezzar What's nice about babies? They're repulsive and annoying.
4
 
And nice cuddly rats :)
 
The only people who think babies are cute are parents. Everyone else thinks it's a damn nuisance.
 
@MattN. $230^{\circ}$ and $10$ minutes in the oven makes babies delicious.
 
Is this a good place and time to ask a math question? or is there some serious chatting going on?
 
@Randal'Thor ask away
 
8:19 PM
@Randal'Thor Wait a second.
 
@OldJohn oh god, that "ping" noise nearly made me fall from my chair ;)
3
 
@Randal'Thor you can silence it :)
 
@Randal'Thor Quick, before he silences it. Ping him!
 
waaaaargh
 
@N3buchadnezzar I'm using Chromium under Linux and it never makes a noise on pings - no idea how to make that change :(
 
8:21 PM
@Randal'Thor hi
 
math.stackexchange.com/questions/257271/… is a question of mine, which I will soon edit (because it's mostly answered). But I have another question which uses the construction in the first paragraph there
 
@Randal'Thor editing a question after it is answered is not a good idea
 
@OldJohn well, it's not answered on MSE (nor on MO), so I thought I'd edit it so that the remaining question stands out. Or is that a bad idea?
 
8:27 PM
@Randal'Thor Then post the answer yourself?
 
@Mechanicalsnail Oh, didn't even think about that :D Yeah, I could do this.
well, on to my "real" question ;) later, the author considers the k-algebra $k[y_1,y_2,y_3]$ as homogeneous coordinate ring of the projective plane.
and then takes the points $(a_{1i}:a_{2i}:a_{3i})$; he says they are "independent generic points over the prime field K"
Do you maybe know what this notion means? I haven't really come across generic points, but these should be points whose closures are the whole projective plane. What really confuses me is the "over the prime field K" part
 
a prime field is $\Bbb F_p$ for some prime $p$ or $\Bbb Q$
 
@anon yes, I know that :) sorry for the bad formulation there
the $a_{ij}$ are algebraically independent elements over K
"independent generic points over the prime field" sounds to me like there is some "change of base field" going on
maybe the points viewed as points of a certain "variety" over K this time; although I guess the independence over K just comes from algebraic indepence over K. But I have not found a rigorous definition of this notion
maybe it's just all because of the age of the paper :)
but I didn't want to seemingly stop all the rest of you from chatting, feel free to ignore me and go on ;D
 
9:14 PM
@JayeshBadwaik I don't know.
 
9:25 PM
@JonasTeuwen Hey Jonas =)
 
@JonasTeuwen ??
Hi.
 
@JasperLoy I don't know.
 
Nur
9:44 PM
@PeterTamaroff LMAO @ the training one in 30 seconds into the video!
Thanks for the laugh!
 
10:01 PM
is there an alt code for λ?
 
10:11 PM
@JohanLarsson 3BB
 
@JayeshBadwaik on windoze?
Tried it but it did not seem to like the b's
 
10:39 PM
For fixed integers a,b,g, how can I find integer solutions in n, to the modular equation

$g^n\equiv b$ mod a
g^n is congruent to b mod a
g,a,b constant
Can somone help me, it wont let me post more then 50 questions in 30 days
 
That's called the discrete logarithm problem. It is very hard. So hard, in fact, that modern public-key cryptography is based off of it being hard.
 
omg
 
@Ethan Hmm - that looks like the discrete logarithm problem - I am not sure there is an easy answer
 
your joking
cant you do it
for small g,a,b
 
@anon - snap
for small integers it is easy by just going through possibilities
 
10:42 PM
I need it for summing certain dirichlet series involving the vonmangoldt function
 
not joking (also *you're)
 
I need to know ALL the solutions in n though
not just a few
can that be done?
 
every solution is a multiple of phi(a) away from a (assuming g,a coprime) unique fundamental solution.
 
a and b are coprime to g
 
here are some algorithms. they are meant for large numbers. I am not familiar with any of them, or which methods are meant for accessibility for smaller examples
 
10:45 PM
Once I find a single solution
can I find all solutions after ward
 
@JohanLarsson ahh, I thought you meant the unicode thing. I do not know about windows but this says 955 should be the code.
 
@Ethan yes - they are a single equivalence class mod $\phi(a)$
 
@Ethan yes, once you find one solution, every other solution is that one plus an integer multiple of phi(a)
 
@JayeshBadwaik yeah, that seems to work in some places, ty
 
can you explain why?
I know eulers theorem
g^(phi(a)) is congruent to 1 mod a
 
10:48 PM
wait, every other solution will be a multiple of $\mathrm{ord}_a(g)$, which will be a (not necessarily improper) divisor of $\varphi(a)$
 
I can multiply the congruences
I understand how it generates
a new congruence
but How Do I know they ALL differ by Phi(a)
 
Tomorrow I have my 'go/no-go meeting'!
 
just because thats a new congruence
how does that imply there are no solutions between [a,a+phi(a)]
 
You mean [n,n+\phi(a)-1]. it doesn't; I amended my answer from phi(a) to ord_b(g).
 
?
 
10:50 PM
Let $m$ be the smallest positive integer such that $g^m\equiv1$ mod $a$. (This is $\mathrm{ord}_a(g)$ by definition.) Then every solution $n$ to $g^n\equiv b$ mod $a$ differs by an integer multiple of $m$.
This is a good exercise if you are becoming familiar with modular arithmetic.
 
yes
I see
 
Note that $m$ divides $\varphi(a)$ by Lagrange's theorem.
 
but how do I know its the smallest solutions
doesn't that have to do with primitive roots
or somthing
 
@Ethan What is the "it" you are referring to?
 
the integer m
I cant read the math text either
I just see the code and $$ signs
 
10:52 PM
m is the smallest integer such that g^m=1mod a because I defined it that way.
 
I know
 
@Ethan See "LaTeX support for chat" starred on the side panel.
 
how Do i find m
no
where is it
 
Do you see the comments starred on the right? Look at the topmost one.
 
yes
 
10:53 PM
save time by just going here I guess: math.ucla.edu/~robjohn/math/mathjax.html
 
$$a$$
its not working for me
whatever
 
You have to follow the instructions.
Drag the blue text into a bookmarks bar or wherever, then click the resulting icon while you are in this tab of your browser.
 
$a$
ok I have iut there
 
Also, in general, I don't think it is easy to compute the order of an element mod a. For example, we still have a very incomplete picture of what primitive roots look like.
Your best bet will be just taking powers until you get g^m=1, probably.
 
kk
 
11:05 PM
I believe there are some reasonable algorithms for solving the discrete logarithm problem $\pmod{a}$ so long as all the prime factors of $a-1$ are small
 
11:17 PM
Man, I keep losing at Solitaire.
 
@Ethan If you can get a look at Koblitz's book: " A Course in Number Theory and Cryptography" he deals with the problem you have
 
wait
ok
 
@PeterTamaroff can't you cheat ? :)
 
so lets say I find the smallest such x, such that g^x is congruent to b modulo a
 
11:19 PM
@OldJohn He, no. I end out running out of moves.
 
then all other solutions
will differ by
 
@PeterTamaroff :)
 
the order of g modulo a
?
ok Lets say I pair up the closest solutions n, to the modular equation g^n =- b mod a
 
@Ethan Yep - I am pretty sure that is right
 
11:20 PM
g^n = b mod a
the closests solutions
will differ by the order of g modulo a
 
yep
 
how do I Know there wont be a solution even closer?
I understand that g^e=1 mod a
and i can multiply the congruences
to obtain another g such that g^n=b mod a
 
if $g^{n_1}\equiv b\equiv g^{n_2}$ then $g^{n_1-n_2}\equiv 1$.
 
but how do i know there isnt an n
 
hmm - not sure I understand your problem there
 
11:22 PM
on the interval [n,n+e]
 
If $e$ is the order - then there can't be any solutions inbetween $n$ and $n+e$
 
Why not?
I understand its
the smallest solution to g^e = 1 mod a
but how does that imply there will be no solutions in between
 
if there were a solution $n+f$ with $f<e$, you could get a contradiction to the fact that $e$ is the order
 
@Ethan Because then the absolute difference between them would be a positive number $k$ for which $g^k\equiv1$, and $k$ would be smaller than the smallest positive number $m$ such that $g^m\equiv1$, a contradiction.
 
can you show me how?
I still cant read the math text ffs
I appreciate the help btw
thanks alot, but stilll i dnt understand
 
11:24 PM
I thought you said you could. You dragged the blue text in the link into your bookmarks bar right?
 
yes
 
Click it.
 
it says 'rendering on'
$a\equivb$
do u see the math text? I dont
 
I do. You need to click the "rendering on" icon while in this tab.
 
$a$
 
11:26 PM
Actually it should say "rendering MathJax" unless you changed it to "rendering on"
 
I got it!
:d
ok it works
 
Hey all. Looking for a little help understanding a 4x4 matrix...
 
now could u give me a fast proof of why, there can be no solutions between [n,n+e], where e is the order of g modulo a, in the equations $g^n\equiv b$ mod a, and $g^{n+e}\equiv b$ mod a, where $g^e\equiv 1$ mod a, 'e' is the primitive root for g modulo a
 
@Ethan Do you understand how a solution inbetween $n$ and $n+e$ would contradict the fact that $e$ is the order?
 
no
could u show me
 
11:29 PM
Let $m$ be the smallest positive integer such that $g^m\equiv 1$. Let $n$ be a number such that $g^n\equiv1$. Write $n=rm+s$ via the Euclidean algorithm, where $0\le s<m$. Thus $1\equiv g^n\equiv g^{rm+s}\equiv (g^m)^rg^s\equiv g^s$ so $g^s\equiv 1$. If $s>0$ then $s$ is smaller than $m$ yet $m$ is the smallest positive integer such that $g^k\equiv1$; you cannot go smaller than smallest, so we have a contradiction, which proves that $s=0$.
Now suppose $g^{n_1}\equiv g^{n_2}$. Then $g^{n_1-n_2}\equiv1$ and by the previous lemma $n_1-n_2=rm$ for some $r$ is a multiple of $m$, the order of $g$.
 
I would have phrased it differently - but that is it
 
oh I see because g is coprime to a, we can divide both sides
 
Maybe you could try muliplying by $g^{-n}$
 
I understand
thanks a bunch
lol
 
(since $g$ has an inverse)
 
11:33 PM
@OldJohn have you done much with 4x4 matrices?
 
@MilesAlden Not a great deal - but what exactly is the problem?
 
I'm trying to understand how matrices are applied to 3d vectors.
This is my basic understanding: // TEMPLATE
// X Y Z W
// ------------------------
// x | m11 | m12 | m13 | m14 | <-- X Components of Vectors
// y | m21 | m22 | m23 | m24 | <-- Y Components of Vectors
// z | m31 | m32 | m33 | m34 | <-- Z Components of Vectors
// t | m41 | m42 | m43 | m44 | <-- Translation Vector
// ^ ^ ^ ^---- Perspective
// | | |___________Z Axis Vector
// | |_________________Y Axis Vector
// |_______________________X Axis Vector
That formatting didn't really come across, but does that look right?
 
Hmm - not sure I understand that at all - you have X Y Z W at the top - but then you have x, y, z, t for the rows?
In my experience, a 4x4 matrix is applied to a 4-dimensional vector ... not a 3-dimensional one
 
Those probably could be better named...Here's a better img: eleqtriq.com/2010/05/css-3d-matrix-transformations
Right, apparently a 4x4 matrix is used for 3D and the 4th row (bottom) is for translation vector and the 4th row (right) is for perspective skewing.
 
Not that this isn't anything mathematical, but this might be better suited for stack overflow
 
11:38 PM
hrm...okay.
Sorry.
 
Nope - I have no experience of those, sorry - I have only used 4x4 matrices for 4-d space
 
Okay thanks though for the time.
 
OK - sorry I can't help
 
Am I right though in thinking that any matrix needs a particular pattern to produce the desired result?
 
well - different matrices produce different transformations, yes
 
11:40 PM
Like rotation in a 2x2 matrix is cos(rad) sin(rad)
and below is -sin(rad) cos(rad)
 
yes
 
okay. Just making sure I'm not off the deep end.
 
haha
 
@OldJohn When this month?
 
11:52 PM
In about 3 days time, I believe
But my Iranian friends tell me it is a time to celebrate - after the 21st, the days get longer again
 
Holy cow longer days! 8-((.
Good night guys.
 
@JonasTeuwen g'night bro
 
Fuck yeah. I won.
Take that, Solitaire.
 

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