@skullpatrol Or not. :-)

@robjohn >8(

@skullpatrol indeed

@robjohn in doubt

More like you have been rather talkative the past few days.

yes

@robjohn Ha, Dr. Johnson!

Do other countries also have title for academic engineers?

The title I have is only used in NL, BE and Germany, I believe.

"ir."

@JonasTeuwen We used to have Er. when engineers were the scarcest commodity in India. Now-a-days people don't use it though.

The mail I get is addressed to "ir. J.J.B Teuwen" or "ir. J. Teuwen".

I believe that in Germany it is required by law to give it.

@JayeshBadwaik Hmm, still not that much here, I think.

There are only three (only :')) institutes that hand out engineering degrees in NL, and two in Belgium.

@JonasTeuwen hmm. here, everyone is referred to as either "Shri" or "Kumar" .

That is... sir?

Yes, same thing here I suppose. Only if you are a professor some people might call you professor, but I don't :').

Why?

Because you have none?

@JonasTeuwen "shri" is for "sir" respectful, "kumar" is for younger people/students. This is for male though. For females, it is "shrimati" and "kumari" respectively.

Why is it? Many people worked quite hard to get it.

It is different if it is irrelevant for the context. Or if you actually use it to base authority on, that is wrong.

@JayeshBadwaik I think that historically it based on the fact that the titles are "protected" in the sense that is a criminal offense to use the title when you do not have it. It served as some proof of ... knowledge.

@JasperLoy So you know what you are dealing with?

If I remember correctly, not in Germany.

In NL it is fine to use less titles than you have 8-).

But not more.

@JonasTeuwen Yes. Something of that sort.

@JasperLoy No need to say anything.

@JasperLoy Also... the annoying thing is that I look like a student and then people treat you way different than when you have a name card with a university office address and "ir. bla bla" on it 8-(.

@JasperLoy Excellent.

Get a PhD in less than a year? That's pretty cool.

Motivational speech fail? 8-).

I'll push the paper I am writing in your mailbox?

Well, it is not done yet.

@JasperLoy It is in your mail.

Which one is that?

Oh.

But there is hardly anything in there you can't figure out yourself. What are you waiting for?

I need a second monitor, on 23" is not good enough for having a good workflow when writing papers.

@JonasTeuwen A single monitor is never good enough for working. 2 or even better 3!

Hmm, but if it is large enough...

But I need emacs on one screen an emacs reader on the other.

And auto update.

@JonasTeuwen Someone (important part is someone) needs to fix LaTeX for once and for all.

You mean that is has to be more sane?

I suppose you can make something that tries to isolate the error.

Like it could do text difference and only the part you have modified will be likely the cause of the error.

Yes. More sane. Error isolating is very difficult due to the its workflow. The errors can be non-local. But, yes, diffs can help I guess.

Yes, they can.

Especially for the more common syntax errors.

But I would like the bloody thing to run when I press C-x C-s.

And then update, but I would rather have it build in /tmp, then copy when done.

(which I do now)

That can be done. I guess you have to use the inotify thing.

You could, but FUSE is better for such things as it can handle the diff.

But I don't think it is needed, if you use emacs.

When you press save emacs knows if something changed or not ;-).

And where.

@JonasTeuwen Yup. So, emacs plugin again.

Would there be a way to just compile the new piece and insert that?

It would need something intermediate, not pdf, not ps, but something that can be easily compiled to a full PDF.

Kile does that.

How?

It compiles only the current math enviornment/ selection/ group.

And still generates a complete document?

Naah!

AucTeX does that as well...

yup.

My document takes like 30 seconds to compile, that is a pain in the arse.

@JonasTeuwen WTH?? 30 seconds? how big is it?

@user1097772 The sequence $\{\frac{1}{\nu}\}_{\nu\in\mathbb{N}}$ is a sequence of real numbers

@user1097772 so...?

@JayeshBadwaik Only like 150 pages.

@user1097772 One more comment: $0.99999...=1$. The left-hand side is also written using the compact notation $0.\bar{9}$.

Isn't... $0.\overline{999}$ just in the equivalence class of the cut $1$?

What is there to prove?!

@JonasTeuwen Hmm.

@JayeshBadwaik Yes, takes long due to the bibliography I suppose.

@JonasTeuwen no, 150 pages is big enough for latex /xetexto get slowed down I suppose. (also, do you remove your intermediate files after every compile?)

Sometimes I have to!

Otherwise I get really fuqed up errors.

LaTeX is The Hell of Modern Software.

@JonasTeuwen ohh. yup.

A slightly more sane builder would do that much quicker right?

Make some bytecode.

I don't like preview-latex, it would be much better if it used MathJax, but that does not support the full LaTeX equations right?

have your rendered document open in xdvi, it'll automatically reload when you run latex

Sigh.

That's not the issue.

@JonasTeuwen A slightly more sane builder would probably get some of the stuff like the custom definitions etc at least in a cache somewhere.

And I have to go directly to pdf.

@JayeshBadwaik You can do that!

But it hardly helps.

But regenerate bibliography is just stupid.

Right, if there are new things I agree with that it will be better.

Hello again

But a smarter program should be able to track changes

@JonasTeuwen Pardon?

And not use that to signal the complete regenerate.

@robjohn You are not? 8-(.

PhD is "doctor" here.

@JonasTeuwen It is here, too.

@PantelisSopasakis I don't understand it :/

Yes. It will track changes, and probably have some sort of spacing thing flexibility which will allow it to prevent changing the complete pdf file.

@JayeshBadwaik I think the problem lies in the structure of PDF.

Something like ps allows reinsertation of new content.

@JonasTeuwen I have suspected that for a long long time.

So you need some intermediate format that compiles to PDF.

Text -> Binary.

@JonasTeuwen Actually no, ps is worse than pdf, in the sense that ps is fully linear. There is no demarcation of pages in the code itself.

@user1097772 Since your sequence consists of real numbers, then $\epsilon$ is real.

@JayeshBadwaik But the linearity allows easier tracking.

@user1097772 On the set of natural numbers, it never makes sense to talk about accumulation points.

A nicer intermediate format would have the complete layouting in there, but an obvious structure of what is what.

@JonasTeuwen Yup! Right! So, we need a PS type of format which is then (easily and infinitely quickly?) converted to pdf.

Such to only regenerate the non-ugly things.

@PantelisSopasakis so none of them are accumulation points?

:6578838 MathJaX cannot possibly support all stuff, also, it will not support custom definitions.

Yes, but that requires rewriting the drivers for LaTeX 8-(((.

@user1097772 OK, look: Your sequence is $\{\frac{1}{\nu}\}_{\nu\in\mathbb{N}}$ -- I hope you have activated ChatJax to be able to see the equations displayed properly on this chat.

@JonasTeuwen and re-writing drivers for LaTeX is worse than re-writing assembly code for windows kernel. Whenever I see the cweb code, My eyes! My eyes!

I can´t see that ...$...

LaTeX Support.

@user1097772 (You shouldn't be able to see the dollars. Install ChatJax!)

I probablz don´t have it activated

@JayeshBadwaik LuaTeX or XeLaTeX might be a bit better.

@user1097772 And when you post questions on the site, use the LaTeX notation.

@JayeshBadwaik Why do things like XeTeX implement the same lousy LaTeX file processing? Backwards compatibility? That's rather backwards.

ok I´m sorry I don´t understand the latex notation and I go at least fix the chatjacks

@JonasTeuwen Hmm. Prolly. Also, I am not sure how TeX does the page breaks. But, from its design, I would think that it does the page-breaks on-the-fly. Instead, if it did the page breaks after generating the complete linear document, then it increases the flexibility a lot on tracking etc. And this way, one can make it quick. (This is where the fulll linearity comes in I guess).

Does anybody know, what does mean that group acts DIAGONALLY?

@JonasTeuwen Yeah. I never ever understood that. May be it is the venerated TeX.

@JayeshBadwaik Yes, but for working documents you want fast compile, that page-breaks are not 100% okay is fine. You can probably detect that you need regenerate the breaks.

@user1097772 Well, that's your chance to learn something new!

@JayeshBadwaik LuaTeX sounds promising.

Only, the programmers have the same problems as I have.

Start enthusiastically and then go back to the old crappy tools 'cause they get the job done 8-).

@JonasTeuwen yes. But actually, look at it this way, if you can generate page-breaks later, instead of on the fly, then the thousand other algorithms about spacing etc would not have to be run when you are trying to fast compile stuff and you have some bad page breaks in your working version, but I don't think its much of a problem (or is it?). To prevent ridiculousness, we start every big environment on new page or something.

@user1097772: here is a direct link

@JayeshBadwaik Yes, you would like a lazy compile.

pdftex --lazy.

@JonasTeuwen yup.

@user1097772 How-To: Create a Bookmark on your browser and instead of providing a URL give this text: pastebin.com/TJ83b3TZ (click on the link and copy-paste the text)

@JonasTeuwen This is mainly because LaTeX is already so popular. Its like the x86 all over again but even worse.

gcc compilers and some other compilers I am sure (except for llvm), is some of the biggest code spaghetti on the planet I assume

@JayeshBadwaik It was created by Knuth, not Microsoft; that's why!

@robjohn Of course! But my point is similarly valid.

Ohh. I saw your edit later. I think it was a good piece of engineering in 1970's given the needs/objectives of the program. Since then times have changed.

For example, latex discourages having non-white background because it wastes inks, but I am sure stuff published with LaTeX is rarely printed.

@JayeshBadwaik llvm is pretty lovely.

and non-white (grayish) background is an awesome technique for highlighting.

Also, it was for Knuth himself initially right? :-).

@JonasTeuwen yup, it is pretty also and lovely also.

@JonasTeuwen yeah. :-)

Also, did you ever try to write a parser for LaTeX?

\def\...\...\.

Bloody hell, these expansions are the devils instrument!

@JonasTeuwen once. When I tried to read the latex2html code.

To cause a hemorrhage.

start ChatJax

@JayeshBadwaik Yes, that one does not support expansions, right?

@JonasTeuwen no it does not. Also, its a big spaghetti of perl! (yuck)

@user1097772 OK, can you see the formulas now?

e.g. $\frac{1}{2}$ ?

@JayeshBadwaik It is quite hard to make perl code not look like spaghetti.

no

I wonder what them made to chose for Lua, but I support having Lua-like access to internals.

And I really really wonder why they really want to keep downward compatibility.

@JonasTeuwen I wonder too.

Perhaps you could give it a flag that should issue a warning.

But keeping support old stuff. 8-(.

@PantelisSopasakis Hou should I start that ChatJax

@PantelisSopasakis i looked here math.ucla.edu/~robjohn/math/mathjax.html

@JayeshBadwaik LuaTeX does have pdftex converted to C.

Through web2c I suppose.

@JonasTeuwen Hmm. I have barely used Lua.I don't know much about it. However, any language used for such stuff has to be have free flowing abstraction like Python/Lisp. The good thing with python is you can always optimize it using C++.

rendering on

$\frac{1}{2}$

@JonasTeuwen hmm. I will read up more on luatex.

@JayeshBadwaik Lua is a bit like "language agnostic" (multiparadigm).

And for lisp, one can now use steel bank lisp compiler.

@JayeshBadwaik I like what I see here.

I´m sory rof maybe stupid question, but what is ChatJax? It's some plugin. Do i need install it? Or should I just run it? How? I tryied the links in rulles but it seems there is nothing useful

@JayeshBadwaik What do you know about ConText?

javascript:(function(){if(window.MathJax===undefined){var%20script%20=%20documen‌​t.createElement("script");script.type%20=%20"text/javascript";script.src%20=%20"h‌​ttp://cdn.mathjax.org/mathjax/latest/MathJax.js?config=TeX-AMS_HTML";var%20config%20=%20'MathJax.Hub.Config({'%20+%20'extensions:%20["tex2j‌​ax.js"],'%20+%20'tex2jax:%20{%20inlineMath:%20[["$","$"],["\\\\\\\\\\\(","\\\\\\\\\\\)"]],%20displayM‌​ath:%20[["$$","$$"],["\\\[","\\\]"]],%20processEscapes:%20true%20},'%20+%20'jax:%20["‌​input/TeX","output/HTML-CSS"]'%20+%20'});'%20+%20'MathJax.Hub.Startup.onload();';if%20(window.opera)%20{‌​script.innerHTML%20=%20config}%20else%20{script.text%20=%20config}%20document.get‌​ElementsByTagName("head")[0].appendChild(script);}else{MathJax.Hub.Queue(["Typese‌​t",MathJax.Hub]);}$('html').ajaxComplete(function(){MathJax.Hub.Queue(["Typeset",‌​MathJax.Hub]);});})();

@JonasTeuwen I have looked at it once or twice. Haven't really paid any attention to it though.

They claim to avoid package clashes.

@JonasTeuwen but that is kind of even more code.

why would you want a pdf when you can have a dvi instead?

@user1097772 did you go to this page? It should tell you to drag the bookmarklet to your bookmark bar.

@JonasTeuwen I am looking at the document you sent me.

@JasperLoy Type.

@yes

@JayeshBadwaik Not necessarily, you can define the scope :-).

@robjohn yes

render MathJax

@JonasTeuwen hmm. yup of course, scope is one good thing.

@user1097772 Once you drag it to your bookmark bar, there should be a link added to the bar. Click on that link and the $...$ should be rendered as math.

@JasperLoy Heathen!

@JasperLoy Thou shalt not worship Microsoft!

@robjohn Bring the Axe!!!

@user1097772 I posted the JS that works for me here: pastebin.com/TJ83b3TZ

Park time... see y'all later

@user1097772 Go to the link math.ucla.edu/~robjohn/math/mathjax.html that was also indicated by robjohn

@robjohn I dislike the math editor in Word, but when I was still teaching, I found the one in OO.o Writer quite adequate for making up exams and handouts.

and then click on the bookmark to activate it.

@JasperLoy Rats.

thanks it works now

@JasperLoy He will also say, bring the axe! You can ask him. Actually, this is a repeat from a previous conversation.

@PantelisSopasakis Can I ask on that set now?

@PantelisSopasakis I can use the definition on 1/x where x is Real, but I'm lost when the it's 1/n and the n is Natural

@JasperLoy The last time I used Word, the only input for equations was a bunch of bloody stupid dropdown menus. In Writer I can simply type. In fact, the syntax could be described as baby $\LaTeX$.

@JasperLoy math.stackexchange.com/questions/218016/acummulation-point

@BrianM.Scott ahh the torture of the menus.

On my computer, I have come to realize I almost never use menus. Two to three times a day I suppose.

@JasperLoy my set A is 1/2, 1/3,1/4,1/5,1/6 ...

@JasperLoy why?

@user1097772 did you understand this statement ?

@Jayesh give mi a minute

@JayeshBadwaik I dared to ask...

A limit point of a set is just a point where every neighborhood in the set has infinitely many points.

Done.

@JonasTeuwen ohh good! Lets see the responses. There were similar questions before on LaTeX but of different kind. So, lets see the responses.

@JayeshBadwaik I am kind of expecting also answers in the category "you suck".

@user1097772 Let $x$ be a real number. If $x<0$, let $\epsilon=|x|$; then $(x-\epsilon,x+\epsilon)$ is an open interval centred at $x$ that is disjoint from $A$, so $x$ is not an accumulation point of $A$. If $x>1$, let $\epsilon=x-1$; once again $(x-\epsilon,x+\epsilon)$ is an open interval centred at $x$ that is disjoint from $A$, and $x$ is not an accumulation point of $A$. If $\frac1{n+1}<x<\frac1n$, let $\epsilon=\min\left\{x-\frac1{n+1},\frac1n-x\right\}$; the same is true again.

You often have these things with people that use the old junk for many years 8-).

Oh, Brian!

@BrianM.Scott Last Friday (not this one) Jan van Mill retired!

@JonasTeuwen Yup! 8-). Its going to be fun.

The only remaining possibility is that $x\in A$, i.e., that $x=\frac1n$ for some $n\in\Bbb Z^+$. In that case you can’t find an open interval around $x$ that is disjoint from $A$, but you can find one whose intersection with $A$ is just $\{x\}$, and that’s good enough.

@JonasTeuwen Good for him!

He now has much more to do he states.

@BrianM.Scott Yes, I just said because I thought you knew him :-).

His retirement lecture was about Brouwers dimensiongrad.

@JasperLoy you are in hibernation.

The aula was full of topologists, was pretty scary.

Also a couple algebraists and a lost statistician.

@JonasTeuwen Yes, and I’m happy to hear it; it gives him a bit more freedom of choice in what he does, and less adminstrative nonsense.

Hah, apparently he was the dean of the sciences faculty. That was pretty much lots of administrative tasks 8-). And the chairman of the Dutch Mathematical Society.

@JonasTeuwen oh dear. So many responsibilities!

The Gowers-Maurey one.

$a=a$

Urysohn's metrization theorem is pretty crafty.

@JasperLoy Woops :)

Haaa

@JasperLoy Beautiful proof or beautiful theorem? Theorem, I would say Stone-Weierstrass till now.

Or Smirnoff-Nagata-Bink metrization theorem.

Stone-Weierstrass is for kiddies.

@JasperLoy Yup. I studied one from Simmons too.

Arzela-Ascoli at about the same level is cooler.

@JasperLoy That is also duh statement.

The construction of the Gowers-Maurey space is A+.

@JasperLoy very soon is the key/difficult word here.

Grothendieck–Hirzebruch–Riemann–Roch theorem is also pretty damn cool.

There's a long name...

Mmm.

I don't do research, no.

I know some results.

@BrianM.Scott It's better but I'm still little lost ... It's possible to use it for example for number 1?

I really love residue theorem!