The Bridge

Lazers 2.0

00:17

2

Q: How can I see which character has finished a certain level?

I've played most of the levels in Super Mario 3D World with Princess Peach and after I've got Rosalina, then with her. If I want to reach the golden stars for the levels, I have to play each level with all five characters: Mario, Luigi, Toad, Princess Peach, Rosalina. But how can I see which char...

super-mario-3d-world

SPArcheon

11:26

in the meantime, somewhere else...

Rage building up. Fire burning.

reddit.com/r/FFVIIRemake/comments/18masgx/…

> [censored], if this “changing fate” theme they’ve added to the remake is all to give us back that false hope that Aeris might live, just to snatch it away again? Like… fair [censored] play, that’s an interesting hook to give old players the same experience all over again.

> Assuming that they do indeed play everything out exactly like the original, what then was the point of introducing the Whispers and the idea of going up against a predetermined fate?
What is the game saying then? You can't win against fate? Your life is predetermined? On a meta level, that when revisiting your own work, there is absolutely no room for creative freedom and you are only ever allowed to do the exact thing that people already know?
I dunno, this would leave a very sour taste in my mouth if that's what they go with. Obviously, I'll wait and see what happens, but if they really…

> I think an issue I have with all the speeches the characters give during chapter 18 of Remake about defying fate and carving out their own destiny and yadayadayada, is how at odds that is with the OG's themes of life and unexpected tragedy. If they don't go through with her death, the themes get muddied.
If you they do, it makes the ending of Remake seem super disjointed with the rest of the narrative, telling a separate message of how you can't fight your destiny or defy fate, how certain things must happen.

and as usual....

"with the original"

Back to ads one

> However, young one.. The important talk starts here. What I have been talking about now.. is about the 1997 Original game. BUT! What we do from here on.. will happen in the new 2020 Final Fantasy Remake! FF7 of 2020! In FF7!

Squaresoft right now.

I wonder if they realize that when you have fans pulling on both shoes, this is a great way for your foot to get quartered....

Memor-X

12:17

> On a meta level, that when revisiting your own work, there is absolutely no room for creative freedom and you are only ever allowed to do the exact thing that people already know?

how to say you never played Remake without saying you never played Remake

because they can and are totally adding a whole lot more to the game, expressing their "creative freedom" and can still retain the same plot

@SPArcheon one of the themes of the original is Unreliable Narrators, something the Rebirth Trailer is showing aswell and the Whispers are the same

SPArcheon

@Memor-X I am sorry to say this, please forgive me if this is a tad blunt. I think you are making too much effort to de-contestualize things. That line is clearly to be read in the context of changing the original plot and specifically Aerith story role.

Also, the thing you point out is EXACTLY the point they are making

"Remake" has that "fight/change fate" sub theme.

Memor-X

what we see is stuff that we have already seen before in the past as if it's confirming to us that the future the Whispers are trying to protect is the same one we see in VII's expanded works like Advent Children and Dirge of Cerberus, but that's just like Cloud retelling the story of Nibelheim to Tifa and in this case we're Tifa being told everything we know but there are gaps

SPArcheon

@Memor-X See above, the point is that they sell out a "change fate" theme. If the actual plot is that "you can't / should not change fate" then the premise is completely anti-shonnen and it is obvious some will hate it.

Especially when you talk about JAPANESE rpg fans.

Memor-X

12:33

@SPArcheon but what was the original fate to begin with?

SPArcheon

@Memor-X Told you before what I HOPED they would do.

Memor-X

there's nothing to suggest what that was, for all we know the fate that's being defied is one that would have resulted in Aerith being alive

it's like Dr Strange seeing all the futures to the Infinity War and see the only one that they win

SPArcheon

@Memor-X you mean, nothing outside the very first, 13 minutes long Japanese ads for Remake being EXACTLY ABOUT THAT?

With TONS of references to whispers outside the bar, the third player calling someone "Mother" and so on?

Memor-X

without knowing what the Whispers aimed to protect (because we never see Aerith's death in the Whisper's visions) we can't say what fate is actually being defied

@SPArcheon and ads can be red herrings, like hearing Joshua's voice being played during the Bahamut Eikon fight in XVI. that fight does not occur at the time Joshua's lines come from

SPArcheon

@Memor-X Buy/Read the Ultimecia guide. Especially the part that mentions the Edge of Creation

Memor-X

12:39

and titles themselves can be misleading. The Legend of Heroes : Kai no Kiseki -Farewell, O Zemuria- some think that means it's the end of the series but some have suggested the meaning is different depending on how fair through the series you are, in particular the "End of the Saga" working was used with Cold Steel IV and people thought it was the end then aswell

SPArcheon

@Memor-X problem is that that ads is a gameplay ads. The one I mention... is not. So if you say that you are accepting that marketing lied in a message that at meta level was not gameplay.

Which is precisely what the above fans said they would be VERY MAD about.

Memor-X

@SPArcheon "meta" is something alot of time, is made up by fans

sometimes used by some people to try and make it seem there are more profound themes to something to boost their own egos

@SPArcheon if it's saying your fighting Fate but not saying what that Fate is, how would they know what is and isn't the result of them fighting Fate?

like a sorta self fulfilling prophecy but instead the events of the original are the result of fighting Fate

SPArcheon

Not really. One thing is making a gameplay trailer using images of a new Zelda game that are arranged to give the idea of a "Ganondorf redemption arc".
Something else is making a trailer for a Wind Waker with Shigeru Miyamoto that says "In the original game we made Ganondorf feel bittersweet about Hyrule fate, this will be expanded in the remake. Is Hyrule still lost? Or can it be saved?" then game ends exactly the same way and the expanded area is additional TINGLE LORE that connects to Ruppee Roseland!!!

Memor-X

@SPArcheon there's no difference. both are marketing, just they show different things

@SPArcheon so? the second would sound more like it's for the new players who never played the original while the additional stuff is for the older players who liked the original and wanted more content

the original want for Final Fantasy VII Remake was the same game but tidied up with the lore stuff that was added like on. Genesis confronting Sephiroth in Nibelheim and being the one who seeded the idea that he was a monster like the things in the pods, the existence of Deepground, the war with Wutai, the other places like Banora and Edge that were never in the original

SPArcheon

@Memor-X I am sorry, I will not delve in grammar analysis. But if you say " Is Hyrule still lost? Or can it be saved?" ("Has the past changed? no... Or it stayed the same?") then the word "STILL" implies that 1)Hyrule was lost before (old game) and 2) it could be saved now (new game) or at least that is how anyone not partial to any outcome would see it.

Memor-X

12:51

people weren't wanting a Final Fantasy VII Remake to be a what if Aerith didn't die and Cloud had to deal with a Love Triangle

SPArcheon

@Memor-X Funny thing. Cloud would NEVER had to deal with the triangle because the second you get back to the REAL Cloud without the mixed Zack memories he would simply return to Tifa

Memor-X

@SPArcheon ok, consider this. Aerith never died in the original

SPArcheon

The whole Cloud / Aerith thing is just Aerith seeing Zack in Cloud and Cloud felling Zack memories for Aerith

Which is utterly annoying because it is another removal of agency from the player in the excuse of "plot twist".

I don't like to be given the liberty of choosing (see: Golden Saucer date) if the game then pretends that what I choose was just fake memories

If I want that trash I'll go play "The Witch House" instead

Memor-X

she instead made it to The Promised Land the Cetra talked about which had been from the start is The Lifestream. so the people who wanted her to be "saved", what would they save her from exactly?

SPArcheon

13:06

@Memor-X I... don't get you question?

Memor-X

@SPArcheon so people assume but given that event happens long after the events of the Forgotten City. but what did it really do exactly? sorted out when Sephiroth showed the party the photo that was taken where it was Zack and not Cloud. that Cloud had kept his promise to protect Tifa, just that he was in a different role when he did it.

everything he did from Midgar onwards was his own doing, unless you're implying that Zack would have started to shut out people after arriving in Midgar

he may have had Zack's past as a backing but he didn't become like Zack and developed himself. so there's nothing to suggest he wouldn't have ended up falling for Aerith and Tifa holding herself back just give a mixed signal to Cloud

SPArcheon

@Memor-X Cloud had part of the "I want to be an hero" disillusion from Zack that made him think that as a soldier he had the power to do something. The real Cloud at the end of Crysis Core would probably be so mentally broken both by the incident and the fact he never managed to be a soldier that he would probably just become one of the many wandering cloaked men chanting "re..u..ni..on" over and over. IMHO Zack mixup was a big element of luck by giving him some fake memory to cling too.

@Memor-X No sure thing but it is pretty hand-waved as "childhood crush trope, must protect, fated couple etc etc etc"

FF7 is FAR from perfect. There is a TON of very annoying things about Zack/Aerith that are hidden under the rug in favor to "She kicks high" and "we want useless death, saving people is overrated, what is this? A fairy tale?"

^ this for example REALLY triggered me in the original.

No one cares to tell them neither before Aerith dead nor after Cloud gets his memories back.

Memor-X

@SPArcheon Cloud wasn't mentally broken, he was suffering from Mako Poisoning. Zack resisted because he had already has the same treatment does to him when he joined SOLDIER and both can just as likely be "one of the many wandering cloaked men chanting "re..u..ni..on" over and over" because that's the result of the Jenova Cells trying to reunite

not to mention Cloud wasn't being "heroic" at the start, months after he woke up follow Zack's final stand. if he was being like Zack he would have rejected the contract with Avalanche and returned to Shinra because Zack is loyal to a fault. something that's likely going to be explored in Rebirth

@SPArcheon tell them what?

SPArcheon

13:22

@Memor-X like... what happened to their son perhaps?

Memor-X

@SPArcheon because no one knows

SPArcheon

@Memor-X You do.

Cloud does.

Even if you want to argue that he has no memory of "Last Stand" he knows later.

Memor-X

he doesn't

SPArcheon

@Memor-X Also, it is both. Even Tifa mentions Cloud has memories that he should not have.

Memor-X

> As a result of the trauma caused by the Nibelheim Incident, his mako poisoning (and subsequent infusion of Jenova cells), and Zack's death, Cloud impressed Zack's memories and fighting abilities into his own. This, along with Tifa's memory of him and his own ideal image of himself as a SOLDIER, created a new set of memories with an accompanying persona.

As such, Cloud was led to believe he had joined SOLDIER and was Sephiroth's partner in place of Zack, and in his own memories, he took Zack's place; in his distorted memories, Zack never existed.

he might have a memory of seeing someone dead outside of Midgar but Zack didn't exist in his memories

SPArcheon

13:27

@Memor-X Yes, didn't BEFORE. But he remembers him after he recovers. At that point it would have been pretty cool if he went back to Zack parents and apologize. Even better, they could be the one giving him Omnislash. Instead of a random game in a random amusement park

Memor-X

@SPArcheon because the Flashback is Cloud talking everyone about the past

so how does Cloud know what Sephiroth was reading?

SPArcheon

@Memor-X That is exactly what proves that Cloud (who is the one in the back of the van) has memories of what Zack saw (the one that actually talked to Sephiroth)

Tifa herself said that.

Remember: Cloud describes Zack route in the reactor.

main point: things you shouldn't know that you did.

Memor-X

@SPArcheon no, i'm talking about when Zack wasn't in the basement and we see Sephiroth reading. that's Cloud describing it

from a gameplay perspective it makes sense

but from a narrative perspective, that's what triggering Tifa, he knows stuff that he shouldn't know

SPArcheon

@Memor-X oooh, I get that. But what I meant is not that Cloud fully has ONLY Zack memories. I said that Cloud has ALSO Zack memories and when those conflict it owns he takes Zack version as real

Memor-X

@SPArcheon ok, but what's got to do with this

15 mins ago, by Memor-X

@SPArcheon Cloud wasn't mentally broken, he was suffering from Mako Poisoning. Zack resisted because he had already has the same treatment does to him when he joined SOLDIER and both can just as likely be "one of the many wandering cloaked men chanting "re..u..ni..on" over and over" because that's the result of the Jenova Cells trying to reunite

like Nibelheim messed him up but his state was caused by his Mako Poisoning and the combination of it, Jenova Cells, Zack's Memories and Nibelheim created a new set of memories that allowed him to function normally after waking up from it

but we know he doesn't default to "Zack Memories" because he still considered Nibelheim his home, not Gongaga

SPArcheon

13:38

@Memor-X ok, that I agree on, and yep, my bad for the Gongaga thing.

@Memor-X Yet, that part is complete mess.

This means that A is Zack and B is Cloud, right?

Zack was shoot and Cloud "escaped".

problem is, Cloud did not escape.

Shinra left him there thinking he would die or become a mindless cloaked number.

Memor-X

@SPArcheon yeh but there is something missing from those reports

Report no. 3 is a year older than Report no. 2

when read in that room it can give the impression that they had already escaped a year ago

SPArcheon

@Memor-X Those reports describe the original version of Zack last stand.

You can read/find them only after Cloud gets "fixed".

The original game had only the reports.

Then the international release added the cutscene that contradicts the reports

then Crysis Core further retcons the scene to match the actual report (Cloud is hidden during Zack Stand and Shinra does NOT find him - at least not on screen, he is hidden behind a rock)

Reference:

4

Q: Were the Escape Reports contents any different in the original Japanese FF7 script?

Following the recent trailer for the Final Fantasy 7 remake my mind went back to the "secret" cutscene that can be seen in Shinra Mansion depicting Cloud and Zack escape. As some may know, it is possible to interact with some books found in the underground study which in turn would provide some ...

translation final-fantasy

@Memor-X alas, don't worry. The only way Square can save themselves now is by still "killing" Aerith but giving her something that kinda makes her still alive.

Memor-X

13:56

@SPArcheon they already did

it's been like that since the original

SPArcheon

@Memor-X Kinda. She does something but has no material entity anymore. She is just a memory in the lifestream.

Considering the theme of Death and Life, and calling a place "Edge of Creation", and the two "universe of death and the universe of creation."... Black feathers are Sephiroth, meaning death. Then... what about the white ones?

Would be fun if in the remake Aerith does what Sephiroth tried and becomes a goddess.

Just give her white wings, a bow and make her hair pink.

Memor-X

@SPArcheon not really because becoming a "god" is just the side effect

inflicting a wound on the planet and absorbing all the Lifestream is also still gathering all Jenova Cells

including what had entered the lifestream

SPArcheon

@Memor-X yet another minor annoyance that is. Sephiroth is clearly "Jenova's dragon" yet in the end he is the main antagonist.

Memor-X

it's why Geostigma is tied to the wash of Lifestream during Meteorfall

SPArcheon

I would want Jenova to come fully formed in the end and toss aside sephioroth who is no longer useful.

Jenova IS the real "big bad"

Memor-X

14:07

assuming wasn't always the case

like Sephiroth's obsession with the Reunion could be actually the Jenova Cells in him overriding his own will

SPArcheon

@Memor-X That is the whole point of the recurring "Sephiroth is a victim too" theory that never got used

(despite making complete sense)

Memor-X

he sorta is considering the Sephiroth we see might not have been the original Sephiroth that would have been born had Hojo not interfeared

SPArcheon

Some even hope that the remake has TWO Sephiroth, the original one and a second "shade" that actually wants to help the party to destroy the original to be set "free"

Memor-X

like Sephiroth and Jenova look similar in the face/hair. who's to say while in the womb the Jennova Cells didn't already start changing characteristics of Lucrecia's baby

SPArcheon

@Memor-X Read this one when you have time

SPArcheon

15:03

@Fredy31 ^

literally minutes after the Fontaine serenitea release.

Tim Stone

15:25

@Wipqozn I mean, probably

Ronan

15:45

I can't think of what to do for 20.2 other than working it out by hand

SPArcheon

16:11

@Fredy31 See below

神女劈観 - The Divine Damsel of Devastation | Hatsune Miku | VOCALOID COVER

►

weirdly it sounds kinda... good

SPArcheon

16:28

@Fredy31 also, Genshin players still salty about Honkay Rail getting the free rare character

Fredy31

lol

You are kinda stupid if you think 1 free 5* is a huge deal in GI and HSR

like they are good, yeah, but its not a game changer either

ffs in HSR i'm at about 12 5* characters, 1 more i dont really GAF

in GI either I would not give a shit

SPArcheon

@Fredy31 that said, figure the mess Honkai would do if two months later...

Fredy31

at this point, in both games its basically like when theres a sponsor for RAID SHADOW LEGENDS when they say YOU CAN GET A 5* CHARACTER (rating starts a 4 and ends at 8*) 2 MILLION GOLD (within an hour quests routinely give that amout) AND 200 OF THE PREMIUM CURRENCY! (you need 2000 to do anything of note with it)

SPArcheon

I would want this just to watch the dramma

Players already mad for Aloy

Fredy31

lol

SPArcheon

16:35

Even better. Release the news about "Genshin gets free Cloud Strife", watch Honkay players go mad... then 24 hours later add "only for PS players, pc gets him 6 months later when the game releases on other consoles"

Fredy31

the thing I hate about aloy is that she was in rotation once, and never again

and I like Horizon

:p

@SPArcheon Trying to figure out if there was another character that would cause even more strife

SPArcheon

@Fredy31 Aerith?

Fredy31

lol

probable

guess i was looking outside of FF but yeah, Aerith would cause a fucking fit

SPArcheon

@Fredy31 You know the "This effect only active on the Playstation Network" thing on some items like Aloy bow?

"Aerith Burst: Planet Protector: Does everything Benet burst does but is also dendro. Also when on the Playstation Network add the following effect: all party is immune to all form of damage including self damage and has infinite stance"

(Note: this was also chosen on purpose to make Dehya worse)

@Fredy31 Outside FF? Mumble... depends if you want to stay at least vaguely realistic.

Forgetting the big names like "Link", I think you have quite a few that would cause a mess.

But if you really want to trigger some, add Goku.

Fredy31

17:21

playable character zelda

that would flip a few tables

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