English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room - 2012-09-19 (page 3 of 5)

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Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

2:00 PM

The Angles is a modern term for a Germanic people, who took their name from the region of Angeln, a district located in what is today Schleswig-Holstein, Germany. The Angles were one of the main groups that settled in Britain in the post-Roman period, founding several of the kingdoms of Anglo-Saxon England, and their name is the root of the name England. Name The name of the Angles is first recorded in Latinized form, as Anglii, in the Germania of Tacitus. The name is usually derived from a toponym, Angeln, from a Germanic word *anguz meaning "narrow" (modern High German "eng") or "an...

@MattЭллен dump the Jute on the burning ground!

Follow the rule: apprehensible comprehensible defensible distensible extensible offensible ostensible prehensible reprehensible sensible suspensible tensible

"Burning Ground" is a song written by Northern Irish singer-songwriter Van Morrison and included on his 1997 album, The Healing Game. For this song, Morrison got his inspiration from a common scene from his childhood when jute was shipped to Belfast from India in the 1950s. Clinton Heylin calls the song "a potentially important song about a man still caught half-way between heaven and hell." Personnel on original release *Van Morrison - vocals, harmonica *Ronnie Johnson - electric guitar *Alec Dankworth - double bass *Leo Green - tenor saxophone *Geoff Dunn - drums *Pee Wee Ellis - bari...

Matt Эллен

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Oh! you mean the Frisians

Uhm guys, is it "I have a 5-year experience" or "I have a 5 year experience" or both?

2:01 PM

Van Morrison was much more fun when he was in hell than when he pretended to be in heaven.

@ЯegDwight Who now? I don't try to be helpful and polite, I am helpful and polite by default.

Matt Эллен

@Alenanno I have 5 years experience. neither of the other two is correct

@Alenanno What you mean, both? You can only use one at a time!

@ЯegDwight lol

@MattЭллен Or "I have five years of experience".

2:02 PM

@MattЭллен I've seen them both being used though.

Matt Эллен

You could say "I had a 5-year experience", have is not right though

oh

I see what you mean.

Matt Эллен

at least, IMHO

@MattЭллен No, give me a mathematically correct answer! :P

Matt Эллен

5 year is probably fine too

2:03 PM

28

Q: When is it necessary to use a hyphen in writing a compound word?

Some words are written without hyphens (nonaggression, nonbeliever), and some words are written with a hyphen (well-intentioned). Is there a schema in the use of a hyphen?

punctuation hyphen

@tchrist Uhh the plain and simple rule is that -able is used if the word was formed after Latin / in English, otherwise the Latin vowel is kept.

eheh thanks

If there are any exceptions, it must be 0.1 percent or something.

1

A: Hyphenation in compound adjectives

Comma Sense—a fun-damental guide to punctuation reports the following text: Often hyphens join two or more words that, taken together, form an adjective. The tin-of-ear among us write three day shipping and eight man crew. But the clear-eared, hearing no pause between the two or more words th...

@Alenanno nose punch

2:04 PM

Arr! Y'all should be talking like pirates, you scurvy dogs!

Heya!

I couldn't.

But welcome back!

@Marthaª Actually we arrr.

offendable, offensible

Oh no, not this time of the year again.

Matt Эллен

Yarrrr!

2:05 PM

Can someone explain what God means when he throws sunshine and hail at us at the same time?

Is he mad at us? Pleased? Insane?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus He's mad at all the gays

Quick, Martha is around, everybody start making awful buns!

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 For what?

Matt Эллен

2 hours ago, by KitFox

Shiver me timbers, we've no new pirate questions today.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus for being fabulous

2:06 PM

@ЯegDwight Hahaha.

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Then why the sunshine? To mock them?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus frankly this line of questioning is getting out of hand.

4 mins ago, by Cerberus

@tchrist Uhh the plain and simple rule is that -able is used if the word was formed after Latin / in English, otherwise the Latin vowel is kept.

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Is it?

dependable, dependible: “Alexander saw and impressed upon his successors the dependibleness of the Jewish people.”

@tchrist *Dependible should be erased with bleach.

Wrong, wrong.

But it exists.

2:08 PM

Illiterate.

Matt Эллен

depandable

Illitteritt.

Matt Эллен

no more pandas!

You will have to admit that it is ugly.

@Cerberus What an easy rule of thumb to remember!

cornbread ninja

2:09 PM

user image

@Robusto I know!

Dependable should only be allowed after pendable is.

@MattЭллен Last time I annoy you lol... so it would be "I have a 5 years experience in...", right?

Matt Эллен

@cornbreadninja awwww

@Alenanno no a, but otherwise yes.

cornbread ninja

@MattЭллен squeee

2:09 PM

Insects eat using their mandables!

Matt Эллен

@Robusto we should be calling them persondables

@MattЭллен Ah yes sorry. So for example "I have 5 years experience in cooking."

@MattЭллен In that case it would have to be persondibles.

Matt Эллен

@Alenanno exactly

@MattЭллен Thank you!

Matt Эллен

2:10 PM

no probs :)

@Alenanno When you use a, you would be talking about an "experience" as in a specific job or something, at a specific time in the past—not to describe your general experience.

"We had a terrible experience on the ferry last year."

Once a dependant gains his independence, is he now an independant?

Thwack.

@Alenanno see, that's the perfect example of how soon lies catch up with one. Just go with the truth and tell them "I have no experience in cooking".

@Cerberus I see what you mean. I have to admit this new correction annoys my non-native ear but hey...

2:12 PM

@tchrist So anyway, use -able with present stems and other modern formations, -ible with past-participle stems.

@Alenanno Sometimes people write of having five years’ experience in cooking. Often, in fact.

@Alenanno Heh, it is perhaps a bit colloquial.

0

Q: "Case and point"

Is it ever correct to say "case and point" instead of "case in point"? Wiktionary states: Common misconstruction of case in point. To me it looks like an Americanisation removing the French root of the phrase. I've found quite a lot of blog posts and even Yahoo answers on the subject, but...

etymology phrases formality

@Cerberus My version?

Well, actually, "an experience I will never forget" is quite normal.

2:13 PM

@ЯegDwight Offence.

So he found plenty of sources that say no, it is not acceptable, and he's still not happy.

@Alenanno No I meant my example.

"A dictionary said it was a misconstruction, so I decided to ask random people on the Internet instead."

Haha.

@ЯegDwight "Americanisation" = "stuff I don't like"

2:14 PM

@Cerberus Ah ok :)

@tchrist that, too. But for a good reason!

You don't care about Royal Weddings, after all.

"You"?

All Americans were watching.

I wasn't, of course.

The Um-err-I-can!s

@Cerberus you're an American?

There aren’t very many -isation words. And A.. is not amongst them, even if it should be an improvisation.

Wrong implication.

2:15 PM

@Cerberus your implication.

Matt Эллен

@ЯegDwight clearly not - he wasn't watching

Nah-uh!

What Matt says.

@MattЭллен hey I'm defending your barebreasted would-be monarchine.

Hehe.

-chette

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

2:17 PM

@ЯegDwight now now, they were both bare-breasted.

Matt Эллен

@ЯegDwight oh, well then. @Cerberus - what was so Important you didn't watch the royal wedding?

Both breasts were bared?

What I did instead was so unimportant that I forgot.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@tchrist both monarchinos

@tchrist yes, and not very highly resolved at that.

Matt Эллен

2:17 PM

@Cerberus tree son!

It wasn't what I'd call a royal resolution.

Haha, treason?

Matt Эллен

indeed

@ЯegDwight It was lowly indeed.

Have you seen them?

Matt Эллен

high treason! The highest!

2:18 PM

Naaaah.

Google ngrams shows “case and point” occurring slightly more commonly in its British corpus than in its American corpus. — jwpat7 38 secs ago

Imperceptible aureolae?

I would be committing treason by watching it!

Pwned.

@Cerberus how would I be able to comment on the ~~taste~~ breasts of ~~poo~~ Kate's without ~~tasting it~~ seeing them?

2:19 PM

@tchrist Naked pictures of Kate were taken by a paparazzo when she was tanning on some balcony in France or something.

Which is what monarchs do when in France.

@ЯegDwight Because you read about them?

I only read a snippet of text somewhere, for example.

Never seen her units.

She's middle class anyway, so who cares?

Matt Эллен

@simchona many false positives, but surprisingly not all of them

Our future queen consort will be middle class too.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus why would her class matter if you were looking at her breasts?

2:21 PM

@Cerberus obviously not her. Obviously everybody else. And then obviously all of a sudden her.

No Billy breasts accompanying? I couldn’t parse out the both breasts thing.

But at least she is foreign.

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Ah, it matters.

@ЯegDwight Wha—

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus I can't see why.

@Cerberus Well she went to court.

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Good for you.

@ЯegDwight So?

2:22 PM

So she cared.

And well that court granted an injunction. What?

Well, he deleted that.

People who don't care don't go to courts.

Sure, she cared.

Cares.

So what's the point of your wha, then.

2:23 PM

> When thou goest with thine adversary to the magistrate, as thou art in the way, give diligence that thou mayest be delivered from him; lest he hale thee to the judge, and the judge deliver thee to the officer, and the officer cast thee into prison.

Matt Эллен

@simchona the question? Good, it seemed pointless

@ЯegDwight Do wha's have points?

Or tips?

Or other protuberances?

Matt Эллен

you're thinking of nipples

Oops.

Daddy, he said nipple!

2:24 PM

Perhaps I did.

This chat is going at the speed of light again.

Travelling, even.

But haven't you read?

Warp engines may be actually possible.

@ЯegDwight What a smarmy bastard, blaming this all on Americans. He should be flogged like a red-headed stepchild.

Matt Эллен

@Cerberus orly? where can I read that?

@Robusto I only flog blond children. So do elaborate.

Matt Эллен

2:26 PM

hides

@ЯegDwight You wouldn't appreciate the difference.

Says you?

dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=27715

Pfft.

I read it in Dutch so I haven't read this article.

2:27 PM

Geez, I saw the first season of ST:TNG just the other week, I never realized it was so close to the original Star Trek in terms of trashiness.

And Ryker was like twelve.

Heh.

Heck, even Picard looked younger than I do now.

@ЯegDwight Take that back!

@tchrist wow looks so boring.

A blueprint of LOTR.

2:30 PM

ST:TNG was closer to the original Star Trek in time than we are to it now.

STO was 1966-68 and TNG was 1987-91.

@ЯegDwight Trailers always give me epileptic whiplash.

I dunno, this one is special.

It could really be for LOTR. The exact same tired shit, to the tee.

Did you see the bunny sled? Where was the bunny sled in LOTR?

I missed it.

I wish they’d’ve been the DRAGON.

Tom Bombadil stole it.

Instead, bunny sleds.

2:34 PM

They need to make three movies worth of padding around a bunny sled?

Seriously, WTF.

Even the lack of blood is strikingly identical to the one in LOTR.

Peter Jackson is the massest murderer without spilling a singlest drop of blood.

Too much blood, not enough kitties.

Blood is gross.

Jackson is not good at making short movies.

He shot too much to fit into the commercial time slot.

Can’t go all Hamlet.

Remember that the best movies are often taken from short stories.

A novel has too much plot, so is inevitably cut.

@Cerberus you don't have to overdo it. The thing is, Peter Jackson overdoes it in the opposite direction. Epic battles, awful weapons, thousands die, skulls crushed in, members cut off, and it all looks like a cartoon of people filled with nothing but air.

Notice Game of Thrones taking 10 hours per book.

2:37 PM

@ЯegDwight Oh...no, if you don't have blood, you shouldn't have too many dismemberments.

Those are gross too.

@ЯegDwight Peter Jackson takes thoughtful books and turns them into adventure stories for 15-25 year-olds — because that is who pays for movies.

That's news to me.

At that age it's the parents who pay.

Or any age, really.

?

Hugo Weaving looks kind of ageless, doesn't he?

Agent Smith doesn't age.

2:39 PM

But ... 3D? Really?

@Robusto Well, he was a springier chicken in Priscilla.

And if a 3D movie plays out over time, isn't it actually in 4D, and all previous 2D movies are actually 3D?

@tchrist 15-year olds don't pay for movies with their own money. In fact, they don't pay for movies at all, if MPAA is to be believed.

Matt Эллен

oh wait! I'm a terrifying orc head, not a blond child. unhides

Ha.

2:44 PM

I watched Captain America last night.

Nuclear family, eh?

Matt Эллен

The First Avenger

It started off pretty good, but pretty much petered out until I was left feeling enraged by the end.

Matt Эллен

Hugo Weaving is a different colour to normal

I saw the original Captain America movie as a child and I'm not going to spoil that experience ex post facto.

Matt Эллен

2:45 PM

See! different to not different from.

@MattЭллен he can't even paint his mask right.

Matt Эллен

stupid corpus

I am certain the corpus uses to in such cases, too.

No blame without checking.

@MattЭллен Hoc est enim corpus meum.

Ewww.

2:46 PM

pocus

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@tchrist 10h/book and the pace is very hurried, hard to follow. But the 3rd book will be split into two seasons, so, 20h

Matt Эллен

@KitFox I quite enjoyed it, so long as I ignored "America! Fuck Yeah!" which was understandable, but overplayed.

@MattЭллен Now I need to argue with you.

Matt Эллен

@KitFox hehe

@MattЭллен You mean that was the only bit you enjoyed?

2:48 PM

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Aye, that it is. So why do people freak about The Hobbit spanning less than that much time?

See, the whole point of Captain America was not "America! Fuck Yeah!"

LALALA I can't hear you. I have that movie on my desktop waiting to be watched.

Well.

grumbles

Matt Эллен

I'll let it lie for Reg

pondering whether to risk transporting a cake by bike

2:51 PM

Why do the British say, “I have a similar hat to Sally.”? Aren’t they mistaking Sally for a hat? Shouldn’t it be, “I have a hat similar to Sally’s.”?

Matt Эллен

no

Hello, can I disturb?

@tchrist Yes.

Seems like a neurological malfunction.

It is ungrammatical to me.

@KitFox and yeah. I watched the original in this theater.

So I guess I kind of understand your point.

Matt Эллен

2:53 PM

we're capable of great feats of elision

It is a case of mistaken identity.

Or an identity of mistaken case, the possessive one to be precise.

@tchrist there's a question for that. Lemme see if I can find it.

Seems like more Britishization of the language, to malquote another poster.

elision => sine oil

I couldn’t find the dupe.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

2:55 PM

@tchrist Well, the hobbit is much shorter a novel than most novels. And there's lots that you could cut out. Lots that doesn't need to be written. It's probably the perfect length novel for a 2.5h film. Kinda like the first Harry Potter movie: very, very true to the book, worked well cinematically, not too rushed or too long.

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 The proof of the pudding is in the eating.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@tchrist Sure but they're making THREE hobbit movies.

and LotR wasn't known for its quick little two-hour flicks either. My copies are all 4h.

Matt Эллен

and hobbits are rotund, I bet a hobbit pudding would be very fattening, let a lone 3 of them

Well of course the question about comparatives I'm looking for is not tagged comparative. Blargh.

@ЯegDwight Ping me if you find the dupe. I’m off to the $job, which today is in the next room, so audible.

If you can’t find the dupe, I suppose I can post it later.

Rather, post the question.

afks

2:59 PM

Not sure why you call it a dupe, I dunno where you got Sally from.

But wevs.

Hello, if I cannot disturb, then I go elsewhere.

Matt Эллен

hi @Carlo_R.

Hello, Matt

I have a question

無色の緑のアイデアは猛烈に眠る。

What is the differnce between excuse me, forgive me and apologize me

3:03 PM

The last one isn't English.

It's English, just not something someone would say.

@Robusto you have used a font that my phone does not rander correctly

It could be Klingon. I'm not fluent in Klingon.

Matt Эллен

"excuse me" and "forgive me" are used in overlapping circumstances

Ok, it's not spoken English. I claim the cellphone keyboard defense.

3:04 PM

"Excuse me" is used to interrupt or to imply an interruption, or to apologize for a minor social infraction.

@Carlo_R. Fonts are not meant to rander. See, there's your problem.

@KitFox So is "forgive me."

It's new to me that Rob uses a different font.

"Forgive me" is stronger than "excuse me."

@Carlo_R. Robusto has no control over what font your device uses.

And less commonly used.

3:05 PM

@KitFox Well, forgive me!

@Kit thank you - you are my friend

And usually you wouldn't walk up to someone on the street and say "forgive me, but how do you get to the Met?"

Still can't find that stupid comparison question.

Although you certainly could.

And be understood.

@Robusto My apologies. I hadn't finished typing yet.

Matt Эллен

It would be unusual to ask forgiveness by saying "excuse me"

3:06 PM

Right.

If I bump into someone in queue at the store, I'd say "excuse me" not "forgive me."

Matt Эллен

yeah

Reg, I'm not expert, but I think the fonts I visualize depend on what Robusto say.

Anyway, bbl.

@KitFox You wouldn't? I'd just ask for absolution while I was at it. Why waste time.

Matt Эллен

@Carlo_R. to some extent, but that's not under the control of Robusto, so much as your device

@KitFox CU

3:08 PM

Efficiency, efficiency, efficiency.

See, I could have typed that once. I'm inefficient.

@Kit CU

Matt Эллен

@ЯegDwight what else is one to do with it?

@MattЭллен put it in a pipe and smoke it?

Reg, now I have a filter for sim's word too

@KitFox The proper response when you bump into someone is to give them an unbelieving look and say , "What!"

Matt Эллен

3:09 PM

@ЯegDwight smoked time. interesting

@KitFox but if you're pleading to your jilted lover, then you're more likely to say "forgive me"

People will borrow time, they will waste time, kill time, spend time, do time. But nobody is aware of the advantages of smoking it.

Matt Эллен

:D

I wonder if it could be eaten at breakfast

Smoked pork can, so why not smoked time.

Matt Эллен

maybe it's an aperitif

However thank you to everyone for having contribuited to the discussion. I need help. Thank you to Matt too. Bbl

Matt Эллен

3:12 PM

CU Carlo

CU Matt

@Carlo_R. My word?

Matt Эллен

maybe your favourite? Or do you have a spell you cast?

Maybe he means he's ignoring me?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Carlo_R. you're blocking a moderator?

Matt Эллен

3:16 PM

I suppose that makes most sense, despite not being the wisest action

For my sanity and this room's, it's not the unwisest, either.

Matt Эллен

heh

No, apologize me is not English, because it is not a transitive verb. One apologizes for something and/or to somebody.

@tchrist I'm sorry you.

Now that is cool. A transitive adjective.

Matt Эллен

3:21 PM

If you run someone you take charge of them, but if you charge someone then you run at them

2

3:34 PM

And if your nose runs, you've got a cold, but if your run noses, you've got syntactic confusion.

What if you run a nose-job clinic?

And charge for it too?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

when the cashier scans your purchases, you run up a total, which is then charged to you

cornbread ninja

Matt Эллен

we had a run on nose jobs don't work for some people

cornbread ninja

Sorry; I've the day off and I'm having fun.

Matt Эллен

3:43 PM

yay!

I've taken next week off to compete in the SO machine learning thing

cornbread ninja

I started "she tried her best, but she was young."

@MattЭллен que?

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 I just run up to the cashier and charge her.

Matt Эллен

Blog - Stack Exchange: Stack Exchange Machine Learning Contest

Kevin Montrose on August 21, 2012

Over the last 4 years we’ve built up quite a bevy of moderation tools here at Stack Exchange. We’ve got closing, editing, deleting, flags of all sorts, voting, commenting, review queues, and more.

Plus our super secret mod tools.

These all work great, but they all require action after a post is made. This is a lot of work for the community, and not particularly friendly toward those posting, particularly new users. In a perfect world, we’d be able to offer specific, targetted guidance for authors whose posts were likely to be shot down, before they ever showed up on the site, and without requiring as much up-front effort from our community. …

stack exchange machine learning - my mistake

cornbread ninja

oh yes, that

Matt Эллен

@cornbreadninja be sure to post it in the Overlook when you're done

3:45 PM

@MattЭллен seriously now? That's cool.

You'll have to do a lot of ketchup though.

cornbread ninja

mmmmcatsup

Matt Эллен

@ЯegDwight indeed. I don't know if I'll come close, but I have a plan

@MattЭллен bribe the judges! Yay!

Matt Эллен

:D

Write a learning machine that learns to bribe.

Matt Эллен

3:48 PM

learning to bribe... interesting

Time for me to skedaddle!

Haha, man, that XKCD is something.

Those tunnels...

It's not fun enough to continue, but anyway.

@Cerberus did you see the complete walkthrough?

Um no.

Three messages down from there.

3 hours ago, by ЯegDwight

@KitFox there's a PDF of it all

That used to be the top reddit post back then. Now it's business as usual, the top post being

user image

snerkle

catz r funneh

3:55 PM

user image

@ЯegDwight Love it! And is that Angela?

Obviously not. But that was my first thought as well.

Funny.

Is it the hair?

I guess so.

It doesn't even resemble her hair that much.

I guess so as well.

3:58 PM

And I am generally bad at recognising faces, as has been established.

@ЯegDwight I would so grab that paw, by the way. It's dangling there so irresistibly.

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