The Nineteenth Byte

Fmbalbuena

00:01

@NewPosts i think is "almost" off-topic

Redwolf Programs

@user I'm likely misremembering

2 and 3 are the same number anyway

They just have different shapes for historical reasons

user

I thought you needed an infinite number of cells

How can you be TC in finite memory?

Redwolf Programs

Not with unlimited integer sizes

user

Ah

Redwolf Programs

Wait I feel like we discussed this yesterday

user

00:06

@RedwolfPrograms o.o

@RedwolfPrograms yes i is dum

Redwolf Programs

You're stuck in a time loop, DLosc, wake up!

I'm worried for my future now that I've discovered how cool compressed air cans are

user

Oh dear, am I forced to repeat the conversation about BF just because DLosc keeps getting stuck in time loops?

@RedwolfPrograms If you're worried you're going to shoot yourself in the foot, learn C++ first and chop your foot off so your compressed air cans won't be able to hurt it :P

Redwolf Programs

No, I'm worried I'll waste all my money on compressed air cans

user

¯\_(ツ)_/¯ There are worse things you could waste them on

Besides, with compressed air cans, you now have a new way to earn money

Redwolf Programs

I love the fact that refrigerators and air conditioners use the same principle that makes compressed air cans get cold to make things cold

My first thought whenever I used the can was wow, this is cold, we should use this for something", followed immediately by "we already do, yay!"

Redwolf Programs

00:26

Gotta love when you read a challenge twice, think it's unclear, then read it again after posting a comment and realize what you'd commented on is actually specified quite clearly and your monke brain skipped over it >:|

lyxal

00:56

@RedwolfPrograms just compress the air yourself. I'm sure something like zip or LZW would suffice

or you could even just base255 compress or dictionary compress it like most esolangs here do

OldSandboxPosts

Sandbox posts last active a week ago: Light it up

lyxal

New hobby idea: coming up with the opposite of old sandboxed challenges

@OldSandboxPosts Dark it down

Sandbox Posts

02:07

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

⧵begin{alignat} ... ⧵end{alignat} code-golf string Note: The title intentionally uses ⧵ (reverse solidus operator) instead of plain backslash, because otherwise MathJax would happily translate the entire title to... uh... a MathJax error box. Background \begin{alignat}{n} ... \end{alignat}...

Niko

@OldSandboxPosts Never gonna light it up, never gonna dark it down

caird coinheringaahing

@NewPosts It feels wrong to FGITW something that's 2 hours old :/

Bubbler

I always forget ƑƇ combo anyway

lyxal

02:31

ChartZ Belatedly — Fmbalbuena 11 mins ago

Excellent comment

10/10

Very skamtebord

caird coinheringaahing

Any reason why, or just "you went by that username for a bit"?

lyxal

Idk but it made me laugh

caird coinheringaahing

@lyxal Looks like yours is broken

Is vyxal's intersection ordered?

lyxal

@cairdcoinheringaahing shhh we don't talk about how there's literally 2 different elements that do the same thing

@cairdcoinheringaahing there totally isn't remove from a what's not in b and standard set intersection

caird coinheringaahing

That still doesn't work

You need multiset intersection, not set intersection

lyxal

02:38

Although it does

Check the edit to my answer

caird coinheringaahing

Doesn't work

lyxal

> remove elements in a that are not in b

caird coinheringaahing

Should only be or and to, and shouldn't include too, as there's only one o

lyxal

02:53

Mmm juicy Unicode misalignment

emanresu A

lol. This is why non-monospace bad

lyxal

Hehe you should have seen the v1 code page

It was horribly non-monospace

emanresu A

@RedwolfPrograms Nice :P

(I have no idea what you're talking about, but you've been talking about it for a while)

Redwolf Programs

Super Mario Bros 3

I've been playing it on an emulator in class :p

I'm at the final boss

lyxal

@RedwolfPrograms can I have Aaron back please?

Redwolf Programs

02:56

Well, I set Aaron down somewhere and...

don't be mad but...

I forgor 💀

lyxal

gosh dang it how is aaron gonna be cleaned?

holy heck you're an irresponsible plate owner

poor aaron, probably has crumbs all over him

at least have the decency to look after the plates you take

smh

emanresu A

@lyxal Get outgolfed

caird coinheringaahing

Ha :P

I put my laptop down to get a drink, and accidentally left my headphones on the space bar. Cue me coming back to a "this message is too long" notice, with the cursor at the start of the chat text box :P

4

emanresu A

@lyxal Weren't we going to make ∩∪ multiset compatible?

hyper-neutrino

well at least you didn't accidentally end up spamming :p

lyxal

03:05

@emanresuA maybe

hyper-neutrino

popcornse is really nice but unfortunately it doesn't tell me the flaggers or the contents of mod flags

caird coinheringaahing

popcornse works best for non-mods

emanresu A

What is popcornse?

lyxal

@emanresuA also, no u

hyper-neutrino

yeah. the only reason I have it is cuz the recent flags admin page is garbage and also i won't remember to constantly check it

caird coinheringaahing

03:06

A userscript that shows flagged messages

emanresu A

@lyxal Nice job outgolfing Jelly :P

If I could give you another +1 I would

You can have that one

lyxal

@emanresuA well I wasn't about to let myself be outplayed in chat

@emanresuA but it's based (ha) on your algorithm

you have it

caird coinheringaahing

Aww :( My Jelly fork would have 3 bytes

emanresu A

You thought of using it like that :P

lyxal

@emanresuA yeah but I wouldn't have though of Þ×

so it's a golfing suggestion

emanresu A

03:09

Ok, fine.

lyxal

good

caird coinheringaahing

Imagine needing a flag to outgolf Jelly (⌐■_■)
(ignore me crying in the corner about Jelly's lack of development and so increasing lack of dominance in golfing)

4

lyxal

the flag is actually inconsequential

PyGamer0

travelling is painful

lyxal

@cairdcoinheringaahing it can be removed. I accidentally left it there

caird coinheringaahing

03:12

Tbh, I'm more happy about the fact I am officially 1/5th of the way to Illuminator :D

That was the 100th question I've edited, then posted a positively scoring answer to :P

Only got ...400... more ... to go

hyper-neutrino

nice

i am only 30/500 lmao

emanresu A

18/500

Bubbler

I don't care/500

caird coinheringaahing

03:48

I think at this point, Illuminator and Marshal are the only gold badges I can actively "work towards" (ignoring tag badges), as the rest I either have; are out of my control; or I'm never going to get :p

I guess Steward as well, but my best in reviews is 461 in FA, so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

hyper-neutrino

04:15

@RedwolfPrograms can you give a verdict on this answer by @pxeger? It appears to be improper since it uses $0 which I think reads the source file, which is invalid for proper quines.

There are outstanding comments on both the answer and the question which have not been clarified.

Redwolf Programs

I had clarified standard quine rules in the comments, so yes that would be invalid

I've gone ahead clarified that in the question too

hyper-neutrino

Thanks

Bubbler

Legendary 100/150 is the only badge I really care about (and I really hope to get)

Redwolf Programs

Shower thought: Someone out there is probably a social socialist sociologist

A sociologist who likes to talk to people and believes strongly in socialism :p

caird coinheringaahing

@Bubbler I'm only on 65/150 :(

My rep earning really dropped off once uni started

My last rep cap was Sep 1st

hyper-neutrino

04:27

oh i'm only 55/150

finally a badge where i'm not miles behind caird :P

Redwolf Programs

I guess sheriff would count as one of those :p

caird coinheringaahing

You're ahead of me for literally every tag badge :P

hyper-neutrino

oh i am?

caird coinheringaahing

In fact, we have the same top 6 tags, and you're miles in front for all 6 :P

emanresu A

caird coinheringaahing

04:30

Questions should contribute to tag badges

Redwolf Programs

I don't know, I think they'd be better off as a separate thing

emanresu A

Agreed

Redwolf Programs

I think you should be rewarded for asking good questions in a tag, but there should be a difference between answers and questions for it

Bubbler

Question-specific tag badges would be really nice

caird coinheringaahing

HN's over here with literally the same number of answers as me (no joke, 764 each) but 49 fewer challenges

emanresu A

04:31

We really need a platinum code-golf

hyper-neutrino

IIRC rewards via badges or similar for consistent question-askers may become a thing sometime soon

Bubbler

Or gold tag badge awarded multiple times, like review queue badges

caird coinheringaahing

Aside, that's kinda cool that me and HN have the same number of answers :P

hyper-neutrino

at least, I think it was planned for Q4 to have site-specific custom badges that the communtiy could design and get a CM to create, and idk if it's custom conditions or manual rewarding for people who are deserving of some extra special recognition

emanresu A

@cairdcoinheringaahing Huh, I'm not too far behind you for answers (621) but you have 4x the questions :P

caird coinheringaahing

04:33

I have a total question score of 1475 in asking code-golf questions :P

Wait no.

HN has 1475, I have 2131

Bubbler

My Q and A for code-golf are 2362/2230

caird coinheringaahing

I have both our user tabs open, and didn't bother looking at the usernames :P

2131/1678 here

Bubbler

I deserve three more gold badges, amirite?

Redwolf Programs

If I could redesign tag badges from the start, I'd give the dupe hammer to question badge holders, and for answer badge holders I'd put an icon next to their name on answers in that tag

Maybe alongside some other privileges

hyper-neutrino

how do you get your total q score / total a score

caird coinheringaahing

04:35

Fun fact, I'd have the bronze sandbox tag badge if the tag was on 31 more questions

@hyper-neutrino Hover over the tag on the activity tab

Bubbler

Hover over the number on the left side of the tag

caird coinheringaahing

I like that your newest challenge is wishing me a happy birthday :P

hyper-neutrino

oh that was a while ago wasn't it

caird coinheringaahing

July

hyper-neutrino

oh it only works for tags? ok thanks

1475/2438 for me

yeah I'm definitely much more of an answerer, and yes, it is 100% because it takes less time and effort and also because I never have ideas

every time around this year I am reminded of that time I tried doing an advent challenge series and how garbage and inconsistent my motivation is

caird coinheringaahing

04:38

Still can't believe that the challenge is about me, and I gave you the "crux" of the challenge, yet I didn't post it :P

@hyper-neutrino Oh, that reminds me. brb, I have a meta post to write up

Unrelated String

ooh

hyper-neutrino

oo

emanresu A

@cairdcoinheringaahing Is there a simple way to calculate this?

caird coinheringaahing

See above, me and Bubbler say how

emanresu A

I just went to the top users page - 829/543 for me

Bubbler

04:43

Meanwhile my challenge writing has also slowed down, which is not good for my quest towards Legendary

Redwolf Programs

I haven't posted many questions lately either :/

Have we all just collectively run out of ideas lol

Bubbler

And my math Q score is almost twice the A score (791/475) lol

caird coinheringaahing

I keep expecting my maths course to give me ideas for challenges, but everything's too rigorous to make into a challenge :(

Bubbler

What kinds of things are you learning these days?

hyper-neutrino

out of my top 25 tags the only two i have Q>A are ascii-art and matrix

Bubbler

04:48

Eww ascii-art

hyper-neutrino

lol

Redwolf Programs

I think the only reason I post so few challenges now is that my quality standards are higher lol

hyper-neutrino

i'd say the reason my ascii-art score is high is only cuz of a couple question that hit the algorithm well but actually i have quite a few with good score

i'd say my ascii-art challenges overall aren't that boring, but maybe I'm biased :P

Redwolf Programs

My strategy up until recently was more of the "post any ideas you have and hope you don't get downvotes" variety

caird coinheringaahing

@Bubbler So, I have 6 units: Intro to Proofs, Probability, Linear Algebra, ODEs, Analysis and Mathematical Investigations

I will open the floor to guesses as to what any of those units covers, with more "unexpected" topics being awarded brownie points if right

hyper-neutrino

04:51

does intro to proofs cover proving things?

caird coinheringaahing

Surprisingly rarely

It's more "what is a function" and "here's sets and set notation"

a bit of logic theory thrown in for good measure

Redwolf Programs

Does ODEs cover ordinary differential equations? or is that surprisingly rarely too

caird coinheringaahing

Believe it or not, we only do partial differential equations in ODEs (I'm kidding, of course) :P

hyper-neutrino

tbf proof strategies tend to fall into just a few categories (except for specific fields like various areas of formal logic) and a lot of it comes down to definitions and such

and sets show up everywhere lmao

caird coinheringaahing

Just use proof by contradiction for everything :P

hyper-neutrino

04:54

ez

ok but it seems like 90% of proofs are either just contradiction or induction

emanresu A

Just use proof by intimidation

caird coinheringaahing

"Assume Jelly is not the best golfing language. However, we can see that Jelly beats Vyxal ad 05AB1E in this challenge, thus we have a contradiction. Therefore, Jelly is the best golfing language. QED"

Redwolf Programs

If you're ever not sure just write 'this part is left as an exercise for the reader'

caird coinheringaahing

proof by "mf, it's obvious, just f*cking look at it"

hyper-neutrino

proof by magic

Redwolf Programs

04:55

proof by bribery

emanresu A

Proof by infinite recursion

caird coinheringaahing

Proof by I said so

emanresu A

"It works because it works because it works because it works because it works because it works because it works because it works because it works because it works because it works because it works because it works because it works because it works because it works because it works because it works because it works because it works because it works because it works..."

caird coinheringaahing

That's just proof by induction, but without a base case :P

hyper-neutrino

"Assume that this is incorrect. Then, it would not be provable. Therefore, the question statement asking us to prove this would be wrong. However, the professor never makes mistakes. Therefore, this is a contradiction. Therefore, the statement must be correct."

caird coinheringaahing

04:57

*angry Godel noises*

Bubbler

Lol

caird coinheringaahing

smh, I basically wrote the meta tag system, why am I finding it difficult to think of tags for my question

As an aside, I hate the code-golf tag. Feels like it could be applied to basically any meta question about challenges

Bubbler

@hyper-neutrino It is actually a good shortcut when solving various logic puzzles like sudoku

hyper-neutrino

true. being able to say "ok this must be right, so if this approach makes it look wrong, the approach is wrong" can be quite helpful

hence why "prove or disprove this statement" questions are much harder

because with just one, at least you know you're 100% wrong if you arrive at the other

Bubbler

@cairdcoinheringaahing You're not supposed to use it if it applies to challenges other than code golf, I guess?

caird coinheringaahing

05:01

Hmm

I'm scrolling through these meta tags, and far too few have tag wikis, I guess I'm going to have to finish what I started last year

New Posts

0

Q: Advent of code golf?

Every year, during December, our cousin site, Advent of Code goes live, hosting a coding challenge every day from the 1st of December to the 24th of December. There have been various attempts for members of this site to do a similar thing, but it almost always results in a single user trying to p...

Bubbler

> Even normally, this is difficult (unless you're Bubbler)

wut :P

caird coinheringaahing

+3 in under a minute might be the fastest I've ever gotten votes on meta :P

@Bubbler I swear, whenever I log onto the site there's a new challenge from you :P

Redwolf Programs

I like the idea of cleaning up old sandbox posts for this

hyper-neutrino

oh yeah if y'all want to join an AoC leaderboard you can join mine with 196727-47343096

Redwolf Programs

05:05

Isn't it a little early for that? :p

Although I am working on an AoC sort-of-golfing language already

emanresu A

^^^^

caird coinheringaahing

Btw, I'm planning on creating an AoC room and pinning a link to it through December

Redwolf Programs

Ooh nice

caird coinheringaahing

Like. It got a bit too much in here last year IMO

hyper-neutrino

good idea

every day we get like 20 messages counting down followed by 200 discussing it :p

Bubbler

05:07

Well, everyone is busy doing actual AoC during an AoC season, no?

hyper-neutrino

only for like

5 minutes

Redwolf Programs

AoCson? :p

caird coinheringaahing

(oh and if I forget, or if you want to, feel free to create the room/pin the link fellow ROs, I just wanted to mention that :P)

hyper-neutrino

last year I made a template with a ton of utility functions and things but I think this year I will just compete in base python

caird coinheringaahing

Hey @AviFS o/

hyper-neutrino

05:07

maybe with a header to read from a file

Bubbler

It sometimes takes more like five hours for #15+

especially part 2

hyper-neutrino

true

caird coinheringaahing

ಠ_ಠ It's 5am here, and I feel as awake as I did at 9am when I woke up

Redwolf Programs

That image combining sea monster one last year took me sooo long

hyper-neutrino

last year the longest time I spent on a challenge was 1:01:33 on problem 20

caird coinheringaahing

05:10

Don't worry any caird fans, I'm maintaining my shitty sleep schedule at uni :P

hyper-neutrino

excluding day 1 and 7 where I just didn't do it until the next day

emanresu A

Wait, can you compete in any language?

Bubbler

In AoC?

Redwolf Programs

AoC should really shift by one hour each day to be fair to all time zones

emanresu A

@Bubbler Yes

hyper-neutrino

05:10

@emanresuA you just need to provide the output for a certain input

you don't submit code and there is no testing suite

emanresu A

Oh

hyper-neutrino

your answer is like, a number

Bubbler

Yeah

Redwolf Programs

You could do it by hand if you really really wanted to

Bubbler

Everything is on the table

emanresu A

05:11

In that case, I'll probably do Vyxal (and/or JS)

hyper-neutrino

true, but have fun solving this shit by hand xD

Bubbler

as long as it can do text I/O and basic parsing and formatting

Redwolf Programs

I'm probably going to use a slightly modded version of JS

hyper-neutrino

I'm either just going to use base python or create a massive header/template again - not gonna have enough time to commit to making a language for it like I had originally intended

Redwolf Programs

I was going to make my own language for it, but I feel it'd only be super helpful for the first few

Bubbler

05:12

Lol I bet someone actually printed all the pieces in 2020#20 to manually fit them

hyper-neutrino

lmao

Redwolf Programs

Once they start getting hard, readability and debugging are more important than pure speed

Unrelated String

i still haven't finished 20 lmao

yeahh

hyper-neutrino

@RedwolfPrograms true

Bubbler

Making part 1 code reusable is the pro way

hyper-neutrino

05:13

to be fair though, being able to rush the easy ones really fast is really important for total score

^^ definitely that too

caird coinheringaahing

@hyper-neutrino Easy, the answer is trivial and left as an exercise to the reader

Redwolf Programs

I'm considering making a really garbage transpiled language just for the first week

hyper-neutrino

during this one team competition in my province my main job was actually to speedrun

because there was a point bonus decaying by 1 point per 5 minutes so solving problems quickly was good

Bubbler

and I had a lot of fun doing an entire season in Factor, actually

hyper-neutrino

so sometimes i'd manage to get the first problem down before the teacher was finished handing out the sheets

Unrelated String

05:14

nice

hyper-neutrino

CMQ: what's the highest rank you've gotten on an AoC problem?

caird coinheringaahing

@hyper-neutrino HN = CGCC Dream

Redwolf Programs

Lemme check, I know I've done at least top 100

caird coinheringaahing

No, I will not apologise

Bubbler

Also having a PEG-like grammar parser built-in is really handy for parsing problems you get like one per season

hyper-neutrino

05:15

mine is 1st on part 1 (11th part 2) and 3rd on part 2 (2nd part 1) (not the same problem obviously)

Unrelated String

@hyper-neutrino 25 on 2020 23 p1

hyper-neutrino

nice

Redwolf Programs

I got 27 on #21

Unrelated String

nice

hyper-neutrino

I could've done so much better if I actually cared from the start but I didn't get t100 for the first three days cuz i just started really late and didn't start actually trying until day 9

Unrelated String

05:17

f

Bubbler

37th on 2020#6 p2, 75th on 2020#24 p1

Redwolf Programs

#s 20 and 23 took me over 24h rip

Bubbler

Everything else is out of top 100

hyper-neutrino

i got 13th on problem 25 part 1 and then went up to 12th on part 2... so, RIP to whoever it was that didn't click the freebie fast enough and got ninja'd by me

Redwolf Programs

I got top 100 5 times

Bubbler

05:17

Lol

Redwolf Programs

None for part 2s, oddly

hyper-neutrino

what local time is it for y'all when the challenge releases

Redwolf Programs

11:00 PM

hyper-neutrino

I live in the timezone so it's midnight

Unrelated String

i think it's just midnight for me

yeah

Redwolf Programs

05:18

AoC ruined my sleep schedule, I'm just now fixing it, and now it's starting again lol

I have a mix of excitement and a slight hint of stress just looking at the AoC site again lol

Bubbler

I totally missed 2020#13, which Factor literally has a built-in for (ranting about this nth time)

hyper-neutrino

oh aoc gives me so much stress but like the good type that motivates me

Unrelated String

@hyper-neutrino it's weird to me that ontario and north carolina are in the same time zone until i remember that most of ontario is actually east of michigan and somehow michigan is still in the same time zone

Redwolf Programs

What's the worst rank y'all have for any ones that you've completed?

Unrelated String

yeah

Redwolf Programs

05:19

11kth for #23 lol

Unrelated String

lol

hyper-neutrino

69114th for #1 last year

Redwolf Programs

Same for #20, but that one's a lot more understandable I guess

Unrelated String

18559 on 2019 7 p2

Redwolf Programs

How many points did y'all get last year?

Unrelated String

05:21

last year my lowest was 4032 on 9 p1

Redwolf Programs

I had 162

Bubbler

I'm seriously considering not participating AoC this year because I have a ton of things I have to do and want to do

hyper-neutrino

@RedwolfPrograms 2763

Unrelated String

i got exactly 170 points this year and last

Redwolf Programs

A small part of me wants to skip it to avoid the stress and lack of sleep, but it's too fun to skip lol

hyper-neutrino

05:22

see, I'd just spend that time playing league anyway

aoc is less stressful and more healthy

Redwolf Programs

Last year was my first one and I loved it

hyper-neutrino

it happens at midnight and i usually sleep at like 3 anyway

Bubbler

Worst in 2020 was 2020#13 p1 at 31459th, worst overall is 2015#1 p1 at 46478th

31459 looks so special because 3+1=4, 1+4=5, 4+5=9

Unrelated String

ha

hyper-neutrino

nice :P

Redwolf Programs

05:25

Don't you dare make this into a challenge

Bubbler

No I won't :P

Unrelated String

and i guess it's a prefix of the nub of the digits of pi too

Bubbler

Right, 3.14159

caird coinheringaahing

05:42

@Bubbler The trick is to not do it ever, and so I have literally no reason to do it :P

I think they release at like 6am for me, combine that with uni and I have no reason to do it :P

emanresu A

6pm for me, which is muy conveniento

caird coinheringaahing

In fact, I think I'll be skiing from the 15th to the 23rd, so even more no reason to do it :P

Bubbler

Oh lol

lyxal

Dang that reminds me that I need to restock on chalk

4

caird coinheringaahing

I've done code golfs on the slopes, but that's much more informal than AoC

Although, I suppose, "technically" speaking, the only place on a mountain I haven't done a code golf is while actually on a ski slope :P

emanresu A

05:46

@cairdcoinheringaahing Can you golf fast enough to avoid skiing off a cliff?

caird coinheringaahing

Why would I do that, skiing off cliffs (depending on the size) is half the fun :P

lyxal

@NewPosts maybe this year I'll actually be able to commit to writing questions for it now that I have the power of AI text generation :p

Anyhow I can't wait to miserably fail at aoc again

Just like I have for the last 3 years :p

hyper-neutrino

i'm aiming for top 10 this time

Redwolf Programs

I'm aiming for 200 points, or a top 10 on a single challenge

Whichever ends up being more realistic

hyper-neutrino

last time i missed it by 189 which i probably could've had within the 8 days during which i was trolling

i'd like a double-1st place but that's probably unrealistic

Bubbler

05:53

I'm not so much into competing that hard, I'm too lazy to set up automatic test case download script or anything

lyxal

Fun game: can you get your golfing language released (either first release or a release that's been worked on for a while) before AoC starts?

hyper-neutrino

oh i just copy-pasted it into the tio input box

i believe i did all of aoc last year on tio

Bubbler

I can get mine released before 2022 AoC starts, surely

hyper-neutrino

@lyxal well, I haven't started any languages recently, so no :P

unless 👀

lyxal

That reminds me I should create a gist containing names of everyone working on a golfing language

emanresu A

05:56

@lyxal Vyxal 2.6.pre1 should come out within 24 hours

I'm so tired I tried to do if(a = b)

lyxal

@emanresuA laughs in that's probably valid in vb.net idk it's been a year since I last touched it

emanresu A

I'm doing adventofcode.com/2020/day/19 right now by compiling a giant regex

Redwolf Programs

That's what I did lol

I would use that quote about great minds thinking alike but it's really quite an awful hack lol

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