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3:39 PM
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A: What will an occupational therapy assessment during sickness involve?

Old_LamplighterI just went through all of this after having a stroke, and am now back to work. The OT assessment needs to be done periodically to determine your progress and status. The purpose is to: Determine if more therapy is needed Determine a preliminary return to work date (an estimate) Determine quali...

 
Gregory Currie
Gregory Currie
Well, the employer can certainly set a return to work date based upon the professional medical assessments given by the Occupational Therapists they hire. So they can certainly force the issue.
 
Old_Lamplighter
Old_Lamplighter
@GregoryCurrie I literally returned to work a week ago, this is fresh in my mind. Only a DOCTOR can issue a return to work date, and you can demand a second opinion, even in a workman's comp case. 27 years ago, I broke my foot on the job, and I was misdiagnosed as a sprain, After several months of it not getting better, I demanded a second opinion, got the CORRECT DX of it being broken, got all the PT I needed, and then sued.
 
Gregory Currie
Gregory Currie
I mean, that's a nice story and all, but irrelevant. Firstly, the occupational therapists can certainly advise the workplace to get a second doctors opinion, if the OTs are not considered doctors. The employee could very well be obliged to get the opinion of a doctor that the employer mandates. Secondly they are based in the UK.
Giving the OP the advice that only their own doctor can set a return-to-work date is blatantly wrong. Even if only a doctor can, the employer can still engage their own doctor.
 
Old_Lamplighter
Old_Lamplighter
@GregoryCurrie You answered both no and yes to the issue, you make no sense. Unless healthcare in the UK has degraded to the point of no return an OT is not a doctor and cannot make medical decisions
 
Gregory Currie
Gregory Currie
Can the employer force the issue? Yes.
davidsonmorris.com/fit-note-guidance-for-employers This article is from a UK solicitor that goes into greater detail. Extract: "In its latest guidance, the Government has stated that employers may ignore a fit note. The fit note is to be considered advice and it is for employers to determine if they are to accept that advice."
 
Old_Lamplighter
Old_Lamplighter
3:39 PM
@GregoryCurrie You're proving my point. All they can do is say that the employee is NOT fit for work, What are you on about? Excerpt: "A fit note must be signed by the doctor." Not a damned therapist. Only a doctor can declare you fit for work. The regulations in the US and UK are almost identical, including rejecting accommodations, such as part time work. How is that answer in any way irrelevant. You've gone so far to prove yourself wrong and you don't even realzie it
 
Gregory Currie
Gregory Currie
What are you talking about? The status quo is an employee is fit to work. The employee may get a fit note from their doctor saying they are not fit to work. The employer can disregard that fit note, and require that the employee work. I recommend you read the link I posted above.
You state that the employee's doctor can declare them unfit for work. The employer can DISREGARD that statement from the employee's doctor and require them to work.
 
Old_Lamplighter
Old_Lamplighter
@GregoryCurrie I read the article and it says that they can IGNORE THE ADVICE SAYING THAT THEY ARE FIT TO WORK, not the other way around. That's why it is a FIT NOTE, and not an UNFIT NOTE. You are obsessed with that one quote taken out of context. Now, what would have happened if my workplace had demanded that I i return 1 week after my stroke, when I still couldn't get out of bed and didn't know my own name? Well, If I had returned, my widow would have been a very wealthy woman from the settlement money
 
Gregory Currie
Gregory Currie
Ok. I think the issue is you don't know what a fit note is. A fit note is just a statement of fitness. It neither suggests the employee is fit or unfit.
I mean, if you read the article I posted, it explains what a fit note is. I don't understand why you don't just read the article, rather than persisting with your assumptions that are wrong.
I don't really care for your personal situation. I am speaking about the situation in the UK.
 
Old_Lamplighter
Old_Lamplighter
4:02 PM
@GregoryCurrie I read the article including where if they choose to ignore the advice and the employee decides to challenge it.

Excerpt:

"You are also within your rights to give this other evidence precedence over the advice in the fit note. However, if the employee decides to formally challenge your decision, you may need to demonstrate to an employment tribunal why the alternative source of evidence was more acceptable to you than the fit note.

If you choose to act contrary to the advice given in a fit note, for example, where it states your employee should avoid lifting and you give …
 
Gregory Currie
Gregory Currie
Yeah
 
Old_Lamplighter
Old_Lamplighter
In other words, my advice is dead on. They cannot force the issue, if they do, they face legal action, which is why I also advised him to seek an attorney if they try to force it
 
Gregory Currie
Gregory Currie
No, your advise is wrong
Anyone can sue anyone, that is a given
So basically they can always face legal action
 
Old_Lamplighter
Old_Lamplighter
Not everyone can win, and the employment laws in the UK are far FAR stricter
 
Gregory Currie
Gregory Currie
Of course
But you're suggesting that a note form your own doctor is 100% proof
it's not
The advice clearly states that
 
Old_Lamplighter
Old_Lamplighter
4:05 PM
I don't suggest anything
 
Gregory Currie
Gregory Currie
If the OPs employer can get enough medical evidence to prove that they are fit to work, that can counteract a note from the doc
 
Old_Lamplighter
Old_Lamplighter
FROM DOCTORS, not therapists
 
Gregory Currie
Gregory Currie
It just comes down to what you can prove to the tribunal
Wrong
Evidence is evidence
Doctors may have more weight
But there is nothing in legislation that mandates it
 
Old_Lamplighter
Old_Lamplighter
And the docor wrote the note
 
Gregory Currie
Gregory Currie
It's up to the tribunal to decide what they want to believe
I'm so sorry you went through what you did, but it doesn't mean every situation is like yours
 
Old_Lamplighter
Old_Lamplighter
4:08 PM
I love you too
 
Gregory Currie
Gregory Currie
And it doesn't mean you should give bad advice to people over the internet
The simple fact of the matter is, the employer can build a case against the employee, despite the fit note. It's up to a tribunal to decide what they want to believe.
I'm done with this conversation. If you want your answer to be misleading to the OP, that's up to you. I don't know how you'd sleep at night giving bad advice. But that's on your head.
 
Old_Lamplighter
Old_Lamplighter
Okay, you crossed a line
 
caird coinheringaahing
caird coinheringaahing
Let's calm down a bit, ok?
 
 
5 hours later…
Old_Lamplighter
Old_Lamplighter
9:09 PM
@cairdcoinheringaahing I'm calm, and I just deleted the answer so as not to be bothered by this drama
I'm too old for this
 
caird coinheringaahing
caird coinheringaahing
@Old_Lamplighter That's my goto "Ok, valid flags raised, need to step in and stop what's going on" statement, I usually follow it up with some more if necessary :)
Even if it directs the discussion towards me, it's an easy way to distract any/all persons who need to step away from the discussion :P
 
Old_Lamplighter
Old_Lamplighter
@cairdcoinheringaahing yeah, no worries. Just letting you know it's over and done with.
 
caird coinheringaahing
caird coinheringaahing
:)
 
Old_Lamplighter
Old_Lamplighter
LOL, CLEVER!
 
caird coinheringaahing
caird coinheringaahing
Learned it from reading transcripts of Shog handling flag drama over in the old SciFi room :P
 

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