last day (35 days later) » 

7:26 AM
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A: Why are Democrats fighting so hard to vaccinate the reluctant?

Ted WrigleyLet's separate out two distinct issues... First, the Biden administration is following epidemiological best practices. As more people get vaccinated, the disease spreads more slowly, the incidences of the disease become less severe, and the impact on medical services becomes less pronounced. A vi...

 
JJJ
Antivax beliefs aren't exclusive to the political right. See also this Washington Post article which has some interesting references.
 
@JJJ: Antivaxxers aren't specifically Rightist, true; but the anti-covid-vax push is deeply rooted in Right-conservative politics, and heavily pushed by Right-wing political actors. Note that there is far more pressure against covid vaccines than antivaxxers ever mustered against their original targets (MMR & etc). There's no sense cramming the big group into the small group's tent.
 
@TedWrigley Being anti-vax is different than telling individuals to make up their own minds and do risk assessments whether they want to get the vaccine or not. This for the most part is a personal medical decision. I partially see the argument against this when people bring up the fact that someone choosing to not get the vaccine can potentially have an effect on others, especially those that are medically ineligible to get it. But I feel like the number of people that are medically ineligible to get it is pretty dang low, I could be wrong though.
 
@Jacob nobody is "telling individuals to make up their own minds and do risk assessments whether they want to get the vaccine or not". That is actually the default option that people do. People are saying "it's poison, but make up your own mind" (implied: I hope you'll come to the same conclusion I do because I fed you with propaganda intended to have that effect)
 
@Jacob: Anti-vaxxers are (to use the PoliSci jargon) Free Riders: they expect other people to bear the costs of their own personal liberty. The term comes from people who jump turnstiles, forcing public transportation to (eventually) increase fares on the people who do pay. Except here the 'fare' that others pay is an increased risk of sickness and death for themselves and their loved ones.
 
7:26 AM
@Jacob: The problem is that people are NOT making up their own minds. They are believing lies told by a small group of people, often for their own political ends. If they made an effort to seek out truthful information, they would come to the conclusion that getting vaccinated is a good idea.
 
@Jacob "This for the most part is a personal medical decision." No, it's not. If we could quarantine all the anti-vaxxers on an isolated island, then it would be "a personal medical decision". Short of that, it's very much a matter of public health, especially when anti-vaxxers throw tantrums in public when you ask them to wear masks, maintain distance, or avoid indoor crowds.
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@user253751 Who exactly on the right is saying, "it's poison, but make up your own mind"? Provide me some evidence, because I also believe that anybody that is saying this is DEAD wrong. So we're in agreeance there.
@TedWrigley Yep I agree with you. I don't think somebody who is inherently against vaccines just because of the fact that they are "anti-vax" is right. Anybody who does the research into if they want to get the vaccine or not and they decide against it... would you call that person anti-vax?
@jamesqf What are the lies being told by the right? Provide me some evidence please! I agree with you, anybody that is saying that the vaccine is extremely dangerous is completely wrong.
@LawnmowerMan I don't think you know the definition of a personal medical decision haha. Having a vaccine injected into somebody's body makes it a personal medical decision..... :) NOW, that doesn't mean that I'm against vaccines at all. All I'm saying is everybody has the right to make up their own mind. I would argue that the vaccine is a fantastic idea for a vast amount of people (especially those that are older and those that have preexisting conditions).
 
@Jacob getting breast implants is "a personal medical decision". Nobody else's health is improved or jeopardized whichever way you choose. Getting fillings vs. root canal vs dentures is "a personal medical decision". How you chew your food does not generally affect the population around you. Lasik vs. contacts vs. glasses is "a personal medical decision". Getting a vaccine vs. spreading a pandemic virus is most certainly not a mere "personal medical decision". You are deciding not only for yourself, but for everyone you can/will infect.
 
@LawnmowerMan Just because getting the vaccine or not will have an effect on everyone else doesn't mean it's not a personal medical decision. Even though it's unlikely, getting the vaccine could have an adverse effect on one's body. Having something injected into YOUR body makes it a personal medical decision YOU have to make...
 
@Jacob the opposite of "personal decision" is "group decision". It doesn't mean that the choice doesn't affect you. It means the choice affects more than just you. That is, it affects you plus the group. So of course a vaccine affects you personally...otherwise, there would be no point to it. And of course people have to account for the personal risk vs. the group risk. But when someone calls a choice a "personal decision", the implication is that the outcome does not affect others, and so others have no stake in it.
 
7:26 AM
@LawnmowerMan Yea true... that's a good way of putting it. I guess we're getting tied up on definitions here. So when a person is deciding whether they want to get the vaccine they have to weigh the personal risk vs. the group risk, I agree. But I will also make the point that I can better understand some people's hesitancy when I could research and find several sources of the MSM and the left saying that the vaccine was hastily developed and therefore people should be hesitant to get the jab last year yet when Biden took over, the rhetoric changed on a dime haha...
 
@Jacob: Anyone who looks at the research and decides not to get the vaccine hasn't understood the research. Or else they've been bamboozled by a charlatan selling wild nonsense as legitimate science (demon sperm, anyone...?). The research is clear: these vaccines are safe and effective. Of course, this is of no interest to Free Riders, who refuse to take any risk or cost (no matter how small) if they can foist it off onto others.
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@Jacob Surely you've heard of Tucker Carlson. Many people watch his show. He lies about vaccines msn.com/en-us/news/us/…
 
@Jacob: The problem with that is that the people who are spreading the anti-COVID vaccine misinformation (who aren't at all the same people as general anti-vaxxers) AUTOMATICALLY label any source that has accurate information - even respected scientific journals - as being "sources of the MSM and the left".
 
 
15 hours later…
9:57 PM
Small reminder that (1) a layman, (2) consuming a bunch of content selected by algorithms which have been proven to radicalize, (3) without control groups or other protections against bias (4) probably not even writing anything down (5) coming to the conclusion that the people who have dedicated their lives to the subject matter came to the wrong scientific consensus... is something else than scientific research entirely.
 

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