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5:39 AM
@TheLethalCarrot I'm really surprised by the low number of candidates. Was expecting this election to go to primaries, but instead it's (at least now, with less than a day remaining for nominations) the smallest election on SFF so far.
Also the only 1-seat election so far, but I hope that didn't influence anyone to not run ... :-/
 
 
3 hours later…
8:28 AM
It may have done but that could be for both good and bad reasons
 
in The Restaurant at the End of the Universe, 4 hours ago, by Adamant
@AncientSwordRage Yes, I will definitely put my name out there. I have been traveling this week, but I see that I have 15 hours left to submit my name. I will do it first thing when I wake up.
@Randal'Thor I would be entertained by a flood of last minute noms
 
You can't really comment on nominations once it moves to the Election phase though which is a shame
 
It's been alleged that some people nominate at the last minute for exactly that reason.
 
@TheLethalCarrot And wirth the move of the questionaire from meta into the nomination post, there's also no other place to do so either.
 
That's a good point, didn't think of that
And either if you can discuss on the post (I don't know with the new system) the comments are still hidden out of the Election tab
 
8:43 AM
I also wonder if it's still so that you can't even see the nomination comments during the election.
 
@Catija Are the nominations / questionnaire answers still commentable during the election phase?
Instead of wondering, might as well ask the person in this room who actually knows ;-)
 
@NapoleonWilson I checked Workplace's recent election and I can't see the comments on the Election tab
But that has completed so maybe it's different
 
9:08 AM
@NapoleonWilson Pretty sure you can view them, but only if you tab to the Nominations tab.
 
... which most people won't think to do if they're not familiar with the SE elections system.
 
Anyone know the reasoning behind hiding and/or disabling comments passed the nomination phase?
 
64
Q: Comments on moderator nomination statements should be visible in all stages of the election

Brad LarsonDuring the nomination phase, members of the community can comment on the nomination statements for each candidate. This can provide valuable information about how the community regards these candidates, as well as specific positive and negative points that go beyond the metrics displayed. There i...

 
That doesn't explain the reasons though does it?
 
9:33 AM
Dunno, I didn't read all the comments and answer to be sure.
At least it's a proposal worth bringing to attention for upvoting.
Maybe @Catija can pass it to whoever's responsible for the recent/ongoing revamp of election code.
 
 
2 hours later…
11:58 AM
@Randal'Thor weak sauce. I'm ready to stand and face the tough questions!
 
12:35 PM
next cache refresh I should have added a point to my score!
 
 
1 hour later…
2:03 PM
in The Restaurant at the End of the Universe, 4 mins ago, by AncientSwordRage
@DavidW If we decide we need a second new mod, within 6 months of this election we've got the option of just making the second place nominee a new mod (I've not seen this done, but I'm well informed)
 
@AncientSwordRage that just feels wrong, even as someone who may benefit from it.
 
@Skooba it means you don't need two elections so close together where very little will have changed
(adding one point to your mod score is probably still 'very little' in the grand scheme of things)
 
@AncientSwordRage true, but if for some reason qualified candidates stayed away but changed their mind it wouldn't be fair to them.
 
@Skooba makes sense that all qualified candidates nominate themselves then ;)
they can always decline if they come first say?
 
one thought might be a user who doesn't nominate because they dont want to take votes away from the user they feel is the best. then that user is elected so if a subsequent election is held, that other user would nominate.
@AncientSwordRage hmm... if the winner declines, does it automatically go to second, or that is that reason for the hypothetical?
 
2:08 PM
@Skooba I would imagine it does, but I don't know for sure
 
I'd be surprised if that's ever happened to be honest haha
 
@TheLethalCarrot same
 
yeah, unless some extenuating circumstance happened and for whatever reason they didnt even withdraw.
 
2:29 PM
@Skooba On another site years ago when a new mod was needed soon after an election, the person who came second declined, so the person who came third got the diamond.
(bit more complicated than that, but that's the gist)
So unless SE has changed policies, seems like yes.
 
2:50 PM
if the winner declines that makes sense.
if you are adding a new position though, preferably a new election would be held, however I understand that if it directly after just adding the #2 position
 
3:34 PM
@Skooba Considering how the STV works, that shouldn't be a problem.
 
Absolutely. "Taking votes away" from another user only matters if that user gets so much less votes than you that they're eliminated first.
OTOH, not everyone understands how the voting system works.
 
true
Is it theoretically possible to win with only 2nd choice votes in the model SE uses?
 
@Skooba yes?
At least I think so
 
Not with only 2nd choice votes, no. Whoever has the fewest 1st-choice votes is eliminated first.
 
@Randal'Thor ahh yes
there's different methods of tie breaking, and the order of elimination
 
3:47 PM
But you can have significantly less 1st-choice votes than a frontrunner and still win if you get lots of 2nd-choice votes from the other candidates who had less 1st-choice votes.
A 2nd-choice vote is only taken account of when that voter's 1st choice is either eliminated or (in multi-seat elections) wins.
 
From time to time I have taken the stance that if we're going to have a complicated voting system that we need a machine to run, we should use Condorcet instead of STV. (Admittedly I have sometimes done this simply to be ornery. :))
 
@DavidW is that better though?
A Condorcet method (English: ; French: [kɔ̃dɔʁsɛ]) is an election method that elects the candidate who wins a majority of the vote in every head-to-head election against each of the other candidates, that is, a candidate preferred by more voters than any others, whenever there is such a candidate. A candidate with this property, the pairwise champion or beats-all winner, is formally called the Condorcet winner. The head-to-head elections need not be done separately; a voter's choice within any given pair can be determined from the ranking.Some elections may not yield a Condorcet winner because...
Also this looks bad:
> With Condorcet voting, it is possible that indicating a second choice will cause your first choice to lose.
 
It's a personal preference thing, and I don't know of any significant real-world trials, but I like the idea that the winner (if a winner is produced) would have won in any possible match-up.
@AncientSwordRage It's been a long time since I read up on any alternative voting schemes; I'm not sure I ever came across that.
 
@DavidW the fact is, it's mathematically provable that no one voting method is perfect
so maybe there's something worse about STV
 
Since at this point the ship has not merely sailed, but they loaded everyone on board and burned down the shipyard, any tilting I do against STV is, as I noted, simply from an impulse to contrariness.
 
4:00 PM
@AncientSwordRage I think we should take a vote on that
 
@TheLethalCarrot you want to vote on all these?!
Electoral systems are the rules for conducting elections. Comparisons between different systems can focus on different aspects: on suffrage or rules for voter eligibility; on candidate eligibility and the rules governing political parties; on the way elections are scheduled, sequenced, and combined; or on the rules for determining the winner within a given election (also called the "election rule" or "voting method"). With electoral systems one can also focus on the internal voting mechanism that reviews, for instance, in how far the voters' choices are reflected in the outcome. The mechanism...
 
@AncientSwordRage That I knew, but the major failure I recalled with Condorcet was that it was possible to have undecidable elections. (No candidate beats all the others.)
I don't recall that voting strategies could cause problems.
 
@DavidW ah I linked to that subsection on the wiki
"Circular Ambiguities"
 
So you did.
IIRC, the major problem with STV, as already noted, is that it can prematurely eject optimal compromise candidates.
So you end up with the candidate that 51% of voters don't outright hate, as opposed to the one that 82% of voters would be very comfortable with.
Obviously that's much less of a problem here, where you don't have candidates representing specific constituencies.
In fact, voting for a moderator is (at least in the 90% case) enough of an example where there aren't dramatic divisions between candidates that simple approval voting would usually work just as well as STV.
 
 
1 hour later…
5:13 PM
@DavidW I guess if someone only gets second preference votes?
I think there're counting schemes to work around that...?
 
5:45 PM
@Adamant a new challenger has entered the arena
Welcome! Good luck!
 
 
2 hours later…
7:40 PM
tminus20
 
8:01 PM
and live!
 
Good luck everyone!
I know I’m off to an early start with at least 1 first place vote :P
 
Seven, huh. Not bad.
 
@TheLethalCarrot wow. me too!
 
I will make an election promise here.
If I win the election, I will change my profile picture to the current Doctor.
 
@Catija a few less than expected but a couple of last minute nominations has led to a decent turnout
 
8:08 PM
@TheLethalCarrot everyone who is running, I thought would, like you say just some that didn't. I was expecting to need a primary.
wait we get more than 3 votes now?
cool!
 
Can order as many, or as few, as you want
 
Who promises free beer and popcorn?
 
If I win I shall change my name to et al
(probably only temporarily though. I do like ibid)
 
And just like that, all the comments are swept under the rug.
 
@JackBNimble some of those were kinda important, so of course they were
 
8:15 PM
sorry jack. i didnt mean to break the atmos. i don't participate in SFF to feel informed enough to vote. good luck to everyone
 
You should vote for me. Now you are informed just enough.
 
@GWarner what about free beer and hot wings
 
Oh your name was on that list? i barely glanced at the ballot.
 
Oh, I am offering 1 free blog post to anyone who votes for me.
 
@JackBNimble as a first choice, or as any choice?
 
8:17 PM
actually i dont drink alkyhol and you can keep the hot and pass me a wing
is this like a poll i saw. you could vote for up to 4 choices. there were YES, NO, MAYBE, and I DONT KNOW
 
Yeah, Jack, if I put you down as my last choice do I still get a blog post?
 
Any choice I guess, although I may only feel compelled to pay if I win.
 
anyway my cats are calling. ciao la vista, maybe.. oh maybe , maybe maybe, oh maybe maybe maybe
 
subject to terms and limitations
 
@JackBNimble There are a few, uh, provisos, a, a couple of quid pro quos.
 
8:28 PM
Win or lose, I'll probably still drink that unicorn's blood.
 
fez
Good luck all involved!
 

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