The Nineteenth Byte

@cairdcoinheringaahing the worst thing is ehen your trying to sleep and think of something and you eant to get up and get back fo coding but can’t because you need to speep

hyper-neutrino

there was an attempt (at spelling)

user

@Ausername very fibe sumbol, had to zoom in quite a bit there

caird coinheringaahing

@user I've pulled an all nighter before because as I was falling asleep, I thought of a way to remove a byte on my Enigma machine (like 6 months after posting it), and had to spend the next 5 hours twisting Jelly chains to save 3 bytes

A username

2:21 AM

@cairdcoinheringaahing No, that's the alphabet bow tie builtin in my new language.

caird coinheringaahing

It's why I'm so good at mobile golfing

user

@hyper-neutrino oye I’ll have you no the gods of golf don’t give a damn about spelling or grammar

@cairdcoinheringaahing you did jelly golfing on monile?

caird coinheringaahing

I regularly do Jelly golfing on mobile

A username

I'm thinking about making a language called Archive, where code is just a base-256 integer to retrieve a snippet from a database.

user

How do you type?

caird coinheringaahing

2:22 AM

I copy paste

hyper-neutrino

wlel spleing nad grarmeemr is improtant to commcunticatnig yrouslef acucratecly

caird coinheringaahing

@hyper-neutrino NGL, I've had a few beers tonight and was very confused by that for a good second :P

A username

uihbjne fogudfkujnbrgvjsyuj,knbjuyhr ourg i krbguy jjik ruignu rijg nuuijkjet niuo ehijkg , feiuh vefiu. OIjpnrui eo iei erf er. gr btrbg koj.

user

@hyper-neutrino i sgrew

caird coinheringaahing

"I haven't had that much to drink, right???"

A username

2:23 AM

Who cares about anything?

(spelling-related)

(or grammar-related)

hyper-neutrino

from the way i typed that i wouldn't blame someone for assuming i've had more than a few beers too xD

user

@cairdcoinheringaahing imagine being able to drink before you’re 21

@hyper-neutrino nah, bots don’t fet drug they juat short :p

A username

Imagine not living on a planet where alcohol spintaneiously compusts.

user

@Ausername the essence of nihilismm (nit really

caird coinheringaahing

@user The Land of the Free*

*May not actually be free

Redwolf Programs

2:26 AM

I think a tampermonkey update broke New Posts (the script) :/

user

@Ausername i hâte the ask but where dyou like?

@cairdcoinheringaahing yeab thats never been true (and like never will be)

hyper-neutrino

alright this has been entertaining but I'm going to request that we go back to typing at least somewhat properly to make things are actually legible and reasonably understandable

lyxal

@Ausername Try it Online! for 10?

Stack Exchange

They say it's "The Land of the Free". What a scam.

user

Mobiles already hard to use and it doesn’t help tat I’m tired :/

A username

2:29 AM

Sorry I broke Vyxal

I forgot K does prefixes of lists, but not string

lyxal

@Ausername Try it Online! for 8?

user

Vyxal doesnt treat strings as lists?

Redwolf Programs

Okay so apparently my server either isn't sending SIGTERM to NP/SP so it can save its logs before a reboot, or I'm not handling it properly

lyxal

@user no

Strings are strings.

Lists are lists

A username

@lyxal That is not the alphabet bow tie :p

user

2:31 AM

Interesting. I guess that can be both convenient and inconvenient

Look, the fear of being 11d has me typing coherent msgs :p

Stack Exchange

I'm sad to see that Filipino Language Stack Exchange doesn't exist. :(

A username

13 bytes

lyxal

@Ausername heh, turns out I needed to turn my phone sideways

user

@StackExchange you could propose it on area 51 if it hasn’t been already (sorry)

Stack Exchange

@user Sure, it's possible, but I need a community first. I don't think most of you would be interested anyway.

Wasif

2:33 AM

i am back

Stack Exchange

@cairdcoinheringaahing Poor caird can't take a break.

Wasif

@StackExchange if you propose it on area 51 later become a mod of it too

user

? I’m sure there’s tons of people interested in it out there. Doesn’t hurt to make a proposal if it’s important to you (and it’s a good one)

Wasif

@Ausername wats that about

A username

@lyxal Oops

Stack Exchange

2:35 AM

^ lol

It got delayed.

Noooooooooooo.

@Wasif I don't see why that's a bad thing. I don't know how to build the community for it.

Wait. Is there a subreddit for Stack Exchange? I'll check.

Redwolf Programs

CGCC had one with like four posts lol

Stack Exchange

@RedwolfPrograms Can you send the link?

Wasif

TIO based online interpreter of 2D Deadfish can be found in the link of this answer

Stack Exchange

reddit.com/r/stackexchange

Interesting.

Redwolf Programs

reddit.com/r/ppcg

Wasif

2:38 AM

Just type the 2D Deadfish code in Code section, and Give Input in Input section

user

@RedwolfPrograms there’s q code golf subreddit but it’s not gr8

A username

Redwolf Programs

That's lyxal :p

A username

This is kinda obvious

hyper-neutrino

i've reserved reddit.com/r/cgccse but there's nothing there

A username

2:39 AM

ninjad

user

That’s lyxal (gah ninjas)

A username

lyxql?

Stack Exchange

@Ausername Very curious who made this.

A username

Lyxal.

Stack Exchange

I know someone once. They told me "never gonna give you up".

Wasif

2:40 AM

don't ask why Lyxal joined ghost of memes

it is forbidden in his about me

user

@lyxal why is your reddit username what it is?

Redwolf Programs

Ugh, my server doesn't seem to be sending SIGTERM to processes when it reboots

lyxal

@user you can't ask that

Stack Exchange

Someone must've started already.

Wasif

@StackExchange this should be posted in Area 51

hyper-neutrino

2:47 AM

where'd you get this screenshot?

Stack Exchange

@hyper-neutrino The subreddit.

I linked it.

hyper-neutrino

imagine using reddit in light mode (assuming you took this screenshot)

Stack Exchange

Yes, I do. I'm fine with it. :P

The only dark mode that's put in place to me is Stack Overflow.

Redwolf Programs

I'm so stupid

Wait never mind

Stack Exchange

@RedwolfPrograms What happened?

Redwolf Programs

2:53 AM

Nothing, I thought I made a dumb mistake but I didn't

I have no idea why NP/SP don't receive SIGTERM during reboots

I'm losing the logs because of that

Stack Exchange

@RedwolfPrograms This just reminded me of deforestation.

Redwolf Programs

I'll check the big boy logs I guess

Redwolf Programs

3:07 AM

I figured it out. screen is being killed before the process inside it is.

Stack Exchange

@RedwolfPrograms "big boy"?

Redwolf Programs

The logs made by the system

(They didn't help)

Stack Exchange

Hi, Raze.

Wasif

4:23 AM

99 bottles of beer in Vyxal

probably the longest answer in Vyxal in this site

hyper-neutrino

highly doubt

309

Wasif

@hyper-neutrino err no.....

hyper-neutrino

274

656 although this was a KC and made no attempt at all to compress, it's just the raw string :/

Wasif

But 145 is the longest somewhat meaningful imao, the even longers are just some text compressed/uncpmpressed

(LOL at the error message answer, wish if all languages could output creative error messages)

hyper-neutrino

FYI unless there's an acronym i'm not aware of, I think you mean "lmao" (starts with an L)

Wasif

4:29 AM

@hyper-neutrino imao -> Arrogant IMO

hyper-neutrino

ah

so there is anothe acronym i'm not aware of :D okay, good to know

Wasif

+200 bounty if someone could solve iHateOddNumbers with 2D Deadfish

lyxal

@hyper-neutrino code golf manhunt

I hold the record for the longest keg answer

Wasif

@lyxal I am curious how you got that and proved its irreduciblity

hyper-neutrino

@Wasif will you accept proof of unsolvability (if it is unsolvable)?

Wasif

4:39 AM

@hyper-neutrino yes

hyper-neutrino

i somewhat doubt this is possible because i'm not convinced this language is able to error

Bubbler

Using Python interpreter, I suspect I can make it segfault by squaring towards infinity

The direction change commands allow loops after all

hyper-neutrino

... how are you supposed to run this? @Wasif

you read all of sys.stdin and then input

Wasif

@hyper-neutrino which message are you talking about

hyper-neutrino

just your 2D deadfish

the interpreter begins by doing s = sys.stdin.read()

and then immediate prompts for input()

which, of course, will error

Wasif

4:46 AM

@hyper-neutrino TIO Based online interpreter of 2D Deadfish can found in this answer, Just click in the TIO link, paste your code in Code section, and Input in Input section, for empty input set the input to 0

hyper-neutrino

okay, thanks

Bubbler

An interpreter usually takes the source code from a file though, not from stdin (talking about this)

Wasif

@Bubbler yeah I will change it soon

hyper-neutrino

ok so erroring is trivial, just run c on a negative input

Wasif

@hyper-neutrino yeah

the actual frick is the parity test

hyper-neutrino

4:49 AM

now the question is how do you parity test and preserve the original input? there is only one accumulator so this language is very turing incomplete

Bubbler

Yeah, that (preserving the original input) sounds impossible

If you're allowed to destroy the input, parity test is easy

hyper-neutrino

yeah i think this is trivially impossible; you cannot possibly branch to error on odd numbers and still preserve the original input to output it

@Bubbler i'm missing how this is easy

Bubbler

Well, it's typical for something whose name contains "deadfish", so...

hyper-neutrino

can you just stick dd in a loop or something like that? idk if that works

Bubbler

>(...)dv
^d)...(<

Wasif

4:54 AM

you guys know this language better even than me

I believe in you, you can surely find a way to solve the challenge

hyper-neutrino

oh that's nice

2d languages are something i've always been really bad at :p

Wasif

@Bubbler awesome

hyper-neutrino

yeah i believe this is impossible due to the inability to hold any values other than the accumulator itself

Bubbler

I agree with ^

hyper-neutrino

supposedy you can't just output and then error if odd; idk if you have to not error in the odd case

> In case it's even, output that number. Otherwise, throw any exception/error that your language supports, and stop the program.

I think it's clear enough that the odd number shouldn't be outputted

lyxal

5:02 AM

Unless I can get the input again, then it's impossible

Bubbler

So you can't solve iHateOddNumbers, but you can solve Is this even or odd?

(also you can get the parity even if you need to support negative numbers, because we can put s before the loop to make it non-negative)

hyper-neutrino

good point

Bubbler

Also, if you're using 2D languages, you have a high chance of being outgolfed by Jo King (even if it's your own language) (and some small chance by me :P)

hyper-neutrino

@lyxal i don't know what this whole "apioformic" thing is about but it might entertain you to know that the Asia-Pacific Informatics Olympiad is a real competition with the acronym of APIO

Redwolf Programs

5:20 AM

Ugh, screen is annoying :(

It kills whatever's running in it whenever it gets killed, so I don't get a chance to save log files before shutdown

A username

:(

:}

Sandbox Posts

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Implement Fix2 code-golf functional-programming lambda-calculus Background The fixed-point combinator \$\textsf{fix}\$ is a higher-order function that computes the fixed point of the given function. $$\textsf{fix}\ f = f\ (\textsf{fix}\ f)$$ In terms of programming, it is used to implement recurs...

lyxal

@hyper-neutrino apioform = bee

It's esoserver related

hyper-neutrino

ah

A username

5:38 AM

Ah. That's very deconfickulatistic.

Wasif

5:58 AM

@Bubbler you are right

lyxal

7:12 AM

Wow TIL you can use the non-visible space as a room name

Bubbler

7:29 AM

Any feedback? Specifically I want more feedback on the "polylinks" one and the K one.

Unrelated String

as opposed to the visible space?

lyxal

@UnrelatedString ` ` v ‎

Unrelated String

zero-width space?

lyxal

that one

Unrelated String

ah

nice

A username

7:33 AM

@Bubbler Considering that it took you two weeks to do the last...

StackMeter

finally back on Github

Wasif

@StackMeter welcome back!!

StackMeter

lol

Wasif

why lol

haven't seen you for a while

StackMeter

I was on the chat yesterday

Wasif

7:37 AM

I see

StackMeter

any further news about pxeger's 4D lang?

Wasif

4D ?! oO

lol

Imagining the IP time travels along with space too

A username

Sigh, I've been trying to XSS pxeger's site for ages but it's too well coded...

Wasif

Brainfuck tape visualizer is really useful

I am getting to learn the lang through this

StackMeter

cool

A username

7:51 AM

Warning, it's a nightmare :P

@Ausername what is?

Brainfrick :p

@lyxal I think BF

nah, BF is just overrated

A username

7:52 AM

Congratulations, Bubbler, you've created a tag long enough to make the questions overflow :p

StackMeter

@Ausername i cannot access the site

A username

It should just be a blank page

It deletes everything as soon as there's a sign of something fishy :P

StackMeter

I see something fishy happened then

A username

Yes.

Wasif

8:10 AM

Why not 6 byte >[-<+>] instead of 224 byte in BF to add two numbers codegolf.stackexchange.com/posts/91335/revisions

Bubbler

@Wasif "Arbitrary precision"

Wasif

LOLZ at this

Stack exchange national anthem

Sandbox Posts

8:26 AM

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Array with first n numbers code-golf decision-problem array-manipulation Input a non-empty array with \$n\$ elements. Test if the input array contains every numbers in \$1\cdots n\$. Before I type more details (I thought the task itself is clear enough until here), consider these sandbox questio...

StackMeter

9:08 AM

cool

I could get an answer out for that

how does one take input as a list in python?

A username

eval(input()), Python 2 or a function.

StackMeter

ok

thanks

StackMeter

9:30 AM

@SandboxPosts just so you know, I have a Python answer for this question already prepared

rak1507

generally you're not meant to solve posts while they're still in the sandbox btw

StackMeter

@rak1507 ik, but I need to make some more answers, and I can't risk being sniped

Bubbler

@StackMeter why not post your own challenge with your own answer at the same time

rak1507

(just in case it's not clear: you should not do that)

StackMeter

@Bubbler oh yeah there's not a Python answer on my challenge

might just go answer my question

Worldbuilding.SE is something else

there's a question about Santa complying with the GDPR

New Posts

10:28 AM

0

Q: Yet another digit insertion problem

Given a positive number \$n\$ you have to find \$\bf another\$(not same as n) positive number \$m\$(if there exist one, does it always exist??) such that if we insert same digits in both n and m the resulting fractional value is same $$m/n = m_{transformed}/n_{transformed}$$ $$or$$ $$m*n_{transfo...

Neil

@Ausername (2(1+1)-5)²=(2⋅3-5)²∴1+1=3

@cairdcoinheringaahing Charcoal, 8 bytes: Ｇ↘↙²⁶α‖Ｏ

A username

@Neil Tru datt

Neil

@cairdcoinheringaahing Charcoal, 7 bytes: Ｇ^²⁶α‖Ｏ

StackMeter

how

A username

11:07 AM

This took two hours

lyxal

11:38 AM

@rak1507 you telling me you've never sandbox snipped before?

rak1507

nope

lyxal

Smh

caird coinheringaahing

12:22 PM

@SandboxPosts 2 bytes in Jelly

Damn, the rickroll got copy-striked :(

Adám

12:45 PM

@cairdcoinheringaahing Darn, you beat me.

user

12:59 PM

@cairdcoinheringaahing Was that a genius rickroll, or is it really copy-striked in the UK?

caird coinheringaahing

@user It hasn't been copy-striked (afaik), that was just a rickroll :P

user

ಠ_ಠ

Love how everything on the starboard has 5+ stars. You know TNB's a high quality room when you see that

lyxal

I think this message is high quality, yet it doesn't have 5+ stars.

3

user

We star sensible things such as " It's spam. Flag it as spam. Custom flags don't go away when the post is deleted as spam." instead of silly things such as "Sleep is for cowards with sensible body clocks"

Oh wait...

Wezl

1:14 PM

CMC: take two integers, a and b. Return the array/list [a,b,a,b]

Adám

@Wezl APL: ,⍨ Try it online!

user

@Wezl Haskell: take 2.cycle (I think) or a#b=[a,b,a,b]. Takes input as a list

lyxal

@Wezl Vyxal, ":J

Wezl

taking input as a list ruins the entire point

Adám

@Wezl OK, then ,⍨, Try it online!

user

1:16 PM

APL: ,,, :P

Adám

Looks cute too.

@user Nice.

user

@Wezl Scala: a=>b=>Seq(a,b,a,b). Pretty boring

Wezl

for comparison: lambda *a:a+a

user

If we're doing varargs, then Scala: a=>a++a or def f(a:Int*)=a++a as a complete method

Wezl

scala has ++ for concatenation? Ok, I might have to try it out :D

user

1:20 PM

@Wezl + is commutative, concatenation isn't. Still uses + for strings because of Java (you can use ++ instead as Strings can be converted to Seqs, but there's a tiny bit of overhead from the implicit conversion and extra call to ++)

I wish edits didn't ping

Wezl

nib has ++ for concatenation. Any guesses what ** does?

@user this is why I turned sound notifications off :)

user

@Wezl Cartesian product?

Wezl

yes

user

:)

@Wezl I still don't like having to dismiss the green circles myself, but here, have a ping

@Wezl Oh wait, were you saying this as a good thing?

Wezl

yes

@Wezl nib, non-competing ;), scalars (++:/) or (<-;->;<-;->;)

user

1:28 PM

How does that work?

Wezl

the first one: (⊢,⊢)∘∊ in APL, the second one: {⍺⍵⍺⍵} in APL

user

Oh, so <- and -> refer to the left and right arguments?

Wezl

yes, but more specifically they take the left and right of a pair of values, respectively, and a dyadic function is just a monadic function that takes a pair

user

Oh cool

Wezl

every time I start a CMC, I get to explain something new and grab more attention ;D

StackMeter

1:37 PM

there's been so many variations of Bash

tsh, csh, ksh, sh

Wezl

> variations of bash

user

@StackMeter The sh is because they're shells, not necessarily because they're based on Bash

Adám

@Wezl Oh, so the arrows are like tacks? (⊣,⊢,⊣,⊢)

StackMeter

@user ok

so a lot of shs then

caird coinheringaahing

@Adám What was your 3 byter?

StackMeter

1:39 PM

@Adám I've heard of tacks

Adám

@cairdcoinheringaahing grade grade non-vectorising-equal: ỤỤ⁼

caird coinheringaahing

@Wezl Jelly, 3 bytes: ,;,

hyper-neutrino

@Wezl 3 bytes in Jelly, ,ẋ2

,;` also works

as does ;;`

caird coinheringaahing

@hyper-neutrino Imagine not using the 2-2-2 dyadic chain :P

Wezl

@Adám yes, but slightly different from that because (;) is builtin syntax, not concatenation

hyper-neutrino

1:40 PM

and therefore so does ;⁺`

caird coinheringaahing

@hyper-neutrino And ;;;

hyper-neutrino

lol

so ;;;, ;;⁺, ;⁺;, ;⁺⁺ should all work as well

caird coinheringaahing

@Adám Ah, nice. Mine is J⁼

hyper-neutrino

I always get confused by the 2-2-2

caird coinheringaahing

@hyper-neutrino Not the last one, that's ;;;;

hyper-neutrino

1:41 PM

@cairdcoinheringaahing mine would've been ⁼J lmao

StackMeter

@hyper-neutrino I don't think ;;; works for one - my bet is it pushes [a, b, 0, 0]

caird coinheringaahing

Which gives [a,b,a,b,b]

hyper-neutrino

@StackMeter "pushes"? Jelly isn't stack-based

caird coinheringaahing

@hyper-neutrino There's also the hooked F, but I can't type that on mobile

hyper-neutrino

@cairdcoinheringaahing Try it online!

Wezl

1:42 PM

@Wezl ksh came before bash for examples (source: wp)

StackMeter

@hyper-neutrino I mean outputs

Adám

@cairdcoinheringaahing Ah, I was looking for that built-in. No descriptive words to search for there.

hyper-neutrino

remember - ⁺ doesn't group the atom and its duplicate, it literally just copy-pastes the same thing into the source code :P

@Adám learning which built-ins are where just takes practice and time in Jelly, lol. and unlike in APL it's not always obvious which built-in fits which purpose, and there isn't a good mnemonic for most of them

5

like after you showed me what flip, flip the other way, and transpose looked like, i still remember them a few weeks later even without ever using APL since then :P

caird coinheringaahing

@hyper-neutrino So it should copy ;⁺ twice, as it applies them in postfix order

And yet, it doesnt

hyper-neutrino

@cairdcoinheringaahing that's what i thought to but i tested and it works so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Adám

1:44 PM

@hyper-neutrino Here's one more: ⊥ evaluate in a base, and ⊤ convert To a base.

StackMeter

@hyper-neutrino [a, b] would have to be duplicated at some point, and none of your answers do that

hyper-neutrino

an easy way to see this is just H⁺⁺ on 8, it gives 1 not 0.5 so it's only halving thrice

caird coinheringaahing

I think what it does is it applies the first ⁺, so the chain becomes ;;⁺, which then expands to ;;;

@StackMeter Only in stack languages

hyper-neutrino

that should be how postfix order works anyway, no?

StackMeter

ok

how do we get from [a, b] to [a, b, a, b] with ;;;? maybe I'm missing something

hyper-neutrino

1:46 PM

@StackMeter ;;; is a 2,2,2-chain (tutorial) which is a special construct at the beginning of dyadic chains

caird coinheringaahing

@hyper-neutrino No, postfix order in Jelly expands from the outmost quick in (e.g. +"€ is each, then zip). However ⁺ directly duplicates the link in the chain as its run (it's a hyper, not a quick) so it doesn't work that way

hyper-neutrino

if a chain starts with three dyads + × ÷, the value begins at λ = α + ω and then the rest of the chain beginning at × ÷ ... is considered

the 2,2 chain itself then evaluates λ × (α ÷ ω)

so overall this becomes (α ; ω) ; (α ; ω)

StackMeter

ok I see now

hyper-neutrino

@cairdcoinheringaahing right, but evaluation order is still LTR, as in you first convert + to a vectorize, and then apply each to it

likewise, ;⁺⁺ first duplicates ;, then duplicates the second ; again (since unlike quicks it doesn't pop some links and push one link, it actually pops one and pushes two, or whatever the equivalent implementation is)

Wezl

@hyper-neutrino about time someone reminded me to try to learn jelly again

hyper-neutrino

1:49 PM

If anyone wants to learn Jelly, we have a room for it:

Jelly Hypertraining

Practice your Jelly :) Rules and stuff are here: golfingsucces...

caird coinheringaahing

@hyper-neutrino Personally, I prefer the description that it acts from the middle out. The best way to see it is in Jelly's plus-minus example, where +,_ just makes sense, that the , goes in the middle

hyper-neutrino

@cairdcoinheringaahing yeah, that's fair. i gave the more technical explanation pretty much directly from what the tutorial said, but i like that intuitive explanation

caird coinheringaahing

2-2 dyadic chains are the ones that made the least sense to me tbh

hyper-neutrino

the monadic chaining constructs make sense to me (granted, they are also quite trivial). honestly, only 2,2 is confusing to me sometimes at this point

(ninja'd?)

Adám

"2-2" meaning dyad-dyad?

caird coinheringaahing

1:53 PM

2,2,2,0 can be a little annoying at times, especially when its 2,2,2,0,2 (e.g. +,_2+) Should be (+,_)2+, but it parses it as (+,)(_2)+

@Adám Yes

hyper-neutrino

@cairdcoinheringaahing would it be the former if it's at the start?

caird coinheringaahing

Yes

hyper-neutrino

is there a jelly chain visualizer somewhere? i've been thinking of making one for a while now

caird coinheringaahing

@cairdcoinheringaahing JƑ now that I'm not on mobile :P

@hyper-neutrino I think Jelly Balls visualises the chains

hyper-neutrino

@cairdcoinheringaahing ah right that one. the one i can never remember how to search for, so I just scroll through the quicks page because it's not as long

user

1:57 PM

@cairdcoinheringaahing Does your fork fix that?

caird coinheringaahing

ngl, I never actually search for them, because I can usually scroll quicker :P

@user No, my fork only adds in new builtins (and modifies the behaviour of a few existing ones). Everything else is left as is

StackMeter

@cairdcoinheringaahing shouldn't it parse it as (+,)(_2+)

caird coinheringaahing

Given that Dennis wants Jelly to be as backwards-compatible as possible, I should probably make a version of the fork that just has the additions in case it ever gets pulled

@StackMeter (+,)(_2+) is the same as (+,)(_2)+

Jelly Hypertraining

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