The Nineteenth Byte

Vyxal's the LotM for May :P

4

Wezl

9 hours ago, by Wezl

it's probably a good language but it's cutting in line and I don't want to admit that there's a good reason

omg, I just got a score of 420

@Lyxal are you proud of me

Q: Language of the Month for May 2021: Vyxal

I am very proud of you

@cairdcoinheringaahing this is poggers

New Meta Posts

0

In accordance with our meta agreement, since one candidate received more votes than the others, we have a new featured language! Throughout May 2021, our Language of the Month will be: Vyxal What's a Language of the Month? See the meta post for nominations. In short, during May, those who wish ...

12:06 AM

aw, only 200 rep for 5 answers

@Wezl I got 350 doing literally nothing

40 rep per, stingy

@cairdcoinheringaahing yeah... it's too easy

Wezl

the beginning is too easy

(not having been past the beginning myself :)

12:24 AM

I think I've got a strategy, I can get solidly past 1K

lets try for 2K

12:43 AM

I can't get above 1.3K ish, it seems to get a lot harder there

lots of brackets :(

Oh wait are we talking about different things?

I have no idea where the conversation went while I was gone, I thought you were talking about extorting rep from Lyxal

👋 tnb

i just woke up

morning

@HuỳnhTrầnKhanh g'morning!

12:48 AM

has anyone in here heard of the Lean theorem prover?

I'm infatuated with it

yeah, although I've never used it before

lol the mathlib library is really comprehensive (but the documentation can be intimidating at times)

the next version of lean (lean 4) is going to be a general purpose programming language with formal verification support

slightly nsfw but this article is great michaelburge.us/2017/08/25/…

OldSandboxPosts

Sandbox posts last active a week ago: The Printer Booklet Sequence, Death-onacci sequence (WIP)

@rak1507 oh. i know nothing about coq though, i can't even get the ide to work

1:02 AM

@rak1507 Is the nsfw part a joke or does it actually get nsfw later on?

Oh wait I didn't read the title

lol

Time to clear history

@user it doesn't actually get nsfw

it's just... a joke in poor taste

I know, but if my mom sees this, she's not going to bother reading the article and seeing that it doesn't

nah I'm sure she'll be fine with it as soon as you tell her 'no it's programming in a language called coq!'

1:05 AM

:P

shouldn't the database invariants be theorems instead of axioms?

why are they declared as axioms? axioms are dangerous radioactive material right

I think those terms are interchangeable in Coq?

I started a tutorial and they said Theorem and some other keywords meant basically the same thing, but I'm not sure if that included axiom

i guess the other keyword is 'lemma'

Oh right

this Coq?

1:07 AM

yeah that one

cool cool

i wouldn't recommend it to a newcomer though, coq is much more intimidating than lean

the lean theorem prover has an active community but i can't find one for coq

artagnon.com/articles/leancoq

idk about a community, but if you want to learn Coq, Bubbler recommended this textbook once

@HuỳnhTrầnKhanh I too prefer eat lean meat

haha

oh software foundations, it's a p well known textbook in the lean community too

@rak1507 Ooh, the Haskell code uses implicit parameters!

That's the first time I've seen them being used

1:13 AM

new LOTM is up as a community event :D

cool

LOTM? what does that mean?

language of the month

@hyper-neutrino :D

basically every month we have a featured language to encourage a wider variety of languages to be used, and you can get bounties for being a new user in that language

1:14 AM

imma propose lean lol

codegolf.meta.stackexchange.com/questions/19279/… if you want to nominate languages

Vim is still featured btw

@user just give it time to uncache

I hate caching.

Love cash, though

in theory events should disappear as soon as they are over

so maybe this will also fix the featured caching nightmare i have every month

though since it doesn't need to be locked, it should go away soon

1:16 AM

is the cache user-specific? i'm seeing vyxal

(which is the most current right)

Vim was the lotm for last month, so users who saw it in the featured box last month are still seeing it

@user people aren't allowed to answer the song challenge on consecutive days right?

i think you're just not allowed to chain yourself

@HuỳnhTrầnKhanh i don't think anyone actually knows how the caching works :P

it might still show the April LOTM in the "featured" section, but the May one is posted under Upcoming Events

@Razetime dang it why'd you lie to me ;p

i think it used to be that you couldn't answer on consecutive days

don't quote me on that though

@Lyxal You can, HN's right

I've changed the rules far too much, but hopefully I won't have to anymore

1:21 AM

oh lol stack exchange is p quirky, i used to be active on stack exchange when i was in grade 8 (now i'm in grade 12) and then after a while i was fed up with the quirks and told customer support to delete my account

Can't you delete your account just like that?

@user wdym, stack exchange doesn't let people delete their own accounts afaik

account deletion requests must go through customer support

anyway most of the quirks still remain :P

Oh ok

Good night

I don't want y'all having a bunch of conversations after I'm gone, so I'm going to use this message to induce an awkward silence: Code Golf is a completely useless activity and all of you are wasting your time here when you could be out there building good, useful applications.

2

> you could be out there building good, useful applications

citation-needed. i am clearly not able to do that

i totally can relate

1:30 AM

@hyper-neutrino same here

But then again, uni projects aren't exactly good/useful in first year

lol, true

So I really don't have any motivation to follow the request for silence

@user silence denied

lmao

this is not silence by any stretch of the imagination

Heck, by asking for silence I feel like having a big conversation now

>-(

1:34 AM

⌍P

@Lyxal Good, you can help me out on my projects by providing free labor

@HuỳnhTrầnKhanh Yeah, Lyxal and hyper-neutrino are evil /s

You've just caused me a night of sleeplessness because I'll fear having to wake up in the morning and to read the entire transcript :P

can confirm, I am evil and the purpose of my existence is to spite you and specifically you

@hyper-neutrino b..but I thought that was my job. :(

I knew it! Elementary particles were made just to make my homework harder

Fun fact: Children's poet Michael Rosen turns a year older on the 7th of May

1:42 AM

Good, I like this silence. Keep it this way.

Well I'm only being silent because I'm making more block structures

You can take some tips from here.

@Lyxal Feel free to make them as long as you don't post them here :P

1:54 AM

→ 26 messages moved to Trash

Whoops, context's been moved to Trash

That moment when your photo gallery's photo recaps are all just rock pics

Hm, there seems to be a disproportionately high amount of messages in Trash moved from either CGCC (specifically TNB) or Math.SE (specifically CURED)

@Lyxal Dwayne Johnson fan?

No, natural rock fan

1:57 AM

@hyper-neutrino Hmm, what a coincidence

isn't TNB like the most active chatroom on the Stack Exchange Network

@user also, who even makes ceiling fans in the shape of Dwayne Johnson?

4

Maybe one of them, but probably not the most active

Sup

@Lyxal :o

1:58 AM

@Wasif Howdy

@Wasif Ceiling fans shaped like the Rock, apparently

Hehe

@Lyxal Context?

@hyper-neutrino I wonder why... looking at you lyxal

@HuỳnhTrầnKhanh yes TNB is the activest chat room in stack exchange

1:59 AM

@rak1507 I wouldn't recommend looking at your accomplice in spamming TNB :P

2 mins ago, by user

@Lyxal Dwayne Johnson fan?

No I meant ceiling fans

Why are there ceiling fans shaped like him, and why do you know this?

I don't

You asked

well, how do you define "most active"?

Oh lol I didn't remember my own message

2:00 AM

Activity

Number of messages

yeah isn't it obvious 😂

Make the definition of most active

@hyper-neutrino The most users (as in people named "user"), of course

it may be one of the most active in terms of messages, but it's one of the least active in terms of brain activity

6

lol

2:01 AM

in terms of total number of messages, Mathematics and The Bridge have more, and there might be more with more total messages

They also have more brain activity

Hey we have a lot of brain activity too

@rak1507 there's plenty of brain activity... Just not when you're around! (oh rekt :p)

how can I ever recover

:57839229 Sorry, that was in poor taste

2:03 AM

I didn't see what it says (or if I did, I've already forgotten it, damn it bad short term memory!)

You just proved Lyxal's point :P

lol

(double rekt ⌍p)

ah

Oh hey it might be daily ping time

2:05 AM

exciting

@rak1507 see you on esoserver shortly

2:19 AM

Dah cleaning up my block structures when they go everywhere isn't fun

3:02 AM

Minecraft or Scratch?

Wait my NMP clone got +100 in votes from a single answer lol

~~Soon it'll be able to downvote~~

Wait no, it's at +15 (!)

I don't think the XKCD KotH and its answers quite deserve +70 and somewhere around +15 each, but I guess the boost in activity's good for the site

HNQ noises ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

3:19 AM

@RedwolfPrograms irl

I'm suffering from KotH withdrawl

I want to post one

But the controller will be super hard to make

just nominated my favorite language codegolf.meta.stackexchange.com/a/22227

3:54 AM

@Bubbler there is now :)

4:11 AM

I wouldn't say that this question is unclear. Sure, the concept of "infinite expected value" can be somewhat counterintuitive but the problem is perfectly solvable.

St. Petersburg paradox

The St. Petersburg paradox or St. Petersburg lottery is a paradox related to probability and decision theory in economics. It is based on a theoretical lottery game that leads to a random variable with infinite expected value (i.e., infinite expected payoff) but nevertheless seems to be worth only a very small amount to the participants. The St. Petersburg paradox is a situation where a naive decision criterion which takes only the expected value into account predicts a course of action that presumably no actual person would be willing to take. Several resolutions to the paradox have been proposed...

@hyper-neutrino

The point is I shouldn't have to read up on a whole wikipedia article + anything I might not immediately get just to solve a problem.

Alright. Let's hope that the OP edits their question then.

Also, I don't exactly understand how the St. Petersburg paradox explains what exactly "produce infinite expected output" means; does it mean to write a non-deterministic program whose expected output is infinite but actual output might not be? Like, there isn't a formal specification for what a submission actually needs to do; can I just submit while 1:print(1)?

att

^ agree

I think it's the former. For example, this is a valid submission in JavaScript: f=()=>Math.random()<0.5?"x":f()+f()

4:17 AM

Ah. In any case, if randomness is expected (I just noticed it's tagged random too so I think that makes sense), like with any random problem, the theoretical requirement of randomness has to be defined.

In any case, since I had to read up two wikipedia articles to get the challenge and then discuss it in chat, it's not clear enough.

Q: Write a program with infinite expected output

0

Write a program with infinite expected output. Inspired by St. Petersburg paradox. Shrtest code wins. Would be quite small for lots of language though.

code-golf random

Yeah, HN is right. The challenge should be self-contained enough that someone could solve it naively just from the challenge info alone

External links are good for when there's extra information/research available that could help people shave those extra few bytes off their answer or when the challenge is connected to a rabbit hole of interesting information

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

I get your point.

New Sandboxed Posts

0

Generate ticks of graph A challenge many developers face when drawing a graph from scratch to plot some data is generating its ticks. In below graph, there are 6 horizontal ticks (1750, 1800, 1830, 1860, 1880 and 1900) and 11 vertical ticks (0, 10, 20, 30, 40, 50, 60, 70, 80, 90 and 100). The ho...

4:57 AM

Wait a second

The review queues might have a websocket

i think that's a second

That could change everything

Nobody steal my idea

*proceeds to steal idea*

*sigh* this user is pissing me off

@RedwolfPrograms also, how's the language ranking system coming along?

4:59 AM

Haven't been able to work on it today

Big scary AP test in four days

guess I'll have to use the old method for April then

Although there's some good news, turns out the college I want to go to actually accepts a 4 (second best score) for that test, unlike most others, which means I'm quite a bit less likely to waste my time taking that class :p

(Although it wouldn't be a waste anyway, it's an awesome class and I've learned a ton)

05AB1E is back at the top of the ELO list, so everything is back to normal

@hyper-neutrino More gambling spam?

Nope. It's fine now though.

5:03 AM

@hyper-neutrino I'ven't been that bad today have I?

The websockets are too fast...someone with malicious intentions could probably determine who upvoted and downvoted their posts with close to 90% accuracy

It also allows me to make New Posts

You can post things from the reviews using websockets?

Potentially. I don't know yet.

There's an endpoint with a suggestive name though.

(suggestive as in it seems to suggest it'd do what I want, not the uhh...other definition)

200-review-dashboard-update

dah ninja'd

@RedwolfPrograms I was about to shame SE for indecent websocket exposure.

@rak1507 happy now?

TBH I don't really think New Loophole Proposal or New Bounties With No Deadlines are necessary

5:17 AM

the former, especially not. the latter probably isn't really needed much either; we could probably get a meta concensus on that alongside whether or not to replace the feeds with your bot

We don't have feeds for other important meta posts, and the poster can just put it in chat if they feel it's necessary given how rarely those happen

New Featured Posts is going to be annoying because there's no socket specifically for it, but I think that one's useful enough to be worth having

Everyone gangster until the hivemind actually starts taking over TNB

Unfortunately I can't edit the contents of the oneboxes, otherwise I'd implement Feed Filter's sandboxed post titling feature

Announcement about this month's lotm: the first answer bounty will now actually be awarded

5:36 AM

hello there @pxeger

@hyper-neutrino does Jelly not have a random number in range [0, 1] atom?

it does not.

wow, TIL

would be nice if it did

5:52 AM

@Lyxal morning

Aaron Miller

The LotM answer isn’t marked as community wiki; I can’t add an entry.

@AaronMiller that's fixed now

Aaron Miller

Noice. First Vyxal answer for May.

Very well done!

Q: First N Terms of the Van Eck Sequence

7:31 AM

0

Output the first n terms of the Van Eck sequence. Not the nth term. The Van Eck Sequence is defined as: Starts with 0. If the last term is the first occurrence of that term the next term is 0. If the last term has occurred previously the next term is how many steps back was the most recent occur...

code-golf sequence

Razetime

8:02 AM

I keep forgetting that having a gold badge insta closes questions aaaaaaaaa

lmao

well, I mostly agree with the closure and it seems xnor does too (at least, that it doesn't offer much more that makes it worth being separate from the other challenge), so consider it a three-vote close :P

if the other challenge were super old and inactive and poorly specified i might be inclined to make this challenge follow the standard sequence I/O and close the old one as a duplicate but that doesn't apply here

pretty sure this was prompted by the addition of a Van Eck challenge to code.golf anyway, not actually to patch the old challenge's strict I/O

Razetime

Somehow having a gold badge feels like a downgradr

@hyper-neutrino that's mostly relieving

8:18 AM

@Razetime on this site, yes. Everywhere else, no.

*sigh* i keep trying to expand vote counts on other sites

i feel so weak everywhere except CGCC and to an extent SO :P

okie

Wait, I need a serious discuss about god of base

Is god of base singular or plural

Yes, last time I asked about whether it's male or female, the now the problem has upgraded, is he or they

@NewMainPosts this question crashes my chrome aaaargh

why is chrome so brittle 😭😭

okie

8:34 AM

I was assuming about a god that rules bases

8:49 AM

@hyper-neutrino There's a user script that lets you do that :P

@cairdcoinheringaahing wouldn't that be against the ToS?

what is ToS?

Terms of Service

oh

@cairdcoinheringaahing Why did you have to post with NMP?

9:20 AM

@pxeger Well, it's available on Stack Apps, so I doubt it

@Ausername Post what?

The main reason they limit seeing votes is because it's load heavy and can strain their servers if everyone can do it

this

That's Redwolf

Also, it's to get reputation so the bot can post in chat

Oh sorry. Got NMP mixed up with OldSandboxedPosts.

9:42 AM

Should we have chat events? - now featured. The blog no longer really needs to be an active meta discussion so now we just need to actually write it (and I have a suspicion that nobody's really gotten much progress on that yet...), so I think I can bring this back up since it's been two weeks.

Q: Are random submissions with drastically different results each time allowed in KoTH chhallenges?

10:22 AM

For this challenge, I figured out that if you have score s, and have answered n times, the largest possible code you can submit next is floor(2*s*n + s).

New Meta Posts

0

I posted a King of the Hill challenge recently, but I'm not sure if this answer is in the spirit of KoTH challenges. It chooses a random number at the start of the challenge and repeats that number throughout the challenge. This means that each time I run the game it changes the playing field dra...

discussion king-of-the-hill

10:45 AM

I continued the rickroll

I'ts been done though

@Ausername damn

code-golf string encoding

11:10 AM

0

Q: Implement swap encoding

Swap encoding is an encoding method where you iterate through a string, reversing sections of it between pairs of identical characters. The basic algorithm For each character in the string: Check: Does the string contain the character again, after the instance you found? If so, then modify the st...

@NewMainPosts That was fast.

It's scared of redwolfs new bot

- chat.stackexchange.com/transcript/message/57839165#57839165

@Ausername 👏

Damn it.

11:17 AM

lol

What

That's not how spam is supposed to work

I'm not even sure which spam you're referring to.

Vegan spam

That's just wrong

Agreed

11:28 AM

Spam (meat) is bad enough

And this

Spam fritter

What the actual heck

That's just... That's just no

I know

Yuck

I'd rather use brainfrick than eat spam meat

A bunch of people just got upvotes on old questions. (Trying for Electorate)

272/600

11:35 AM

I've given up on getting electorate

I've voted for too many answers

Like how many? (Check by making it your next badge)

It has to also be 25% of all votes

I know - How many does it say as %?

12%

I need 25% of 7775

Meaning I need to vote for another 1k questions

And not vote for answers while doing so

That's 25 days straight voting for questions and no answers.
Possible but difficult.

I wonder how Dennis got it?

11:40 AM

Probably from doing it early on

If you don't do it early then it becomes way harder

Or just voting less: You've voted more - Dennis has only cast 5,695 votes.

I like voting

I like upvoting a lot

I voted the most last year too

How do you even track that?

codegolf.stackexchange.com/users?tab=Voters&filter=year

I've dropped a rank this year

user is a bit ahead of you

11:43 AM

Yes

I'm 8th from all my question voting

I'm the 6th most frequent voter of all time

gnat is first despite never posting.

Correct

If they had frequent voters cards, I'd be rolling in rewards

What rewards though?

Maybe more votes/day

11:47 AM

^

Imagine if for every thousand votes you cast, you got an extra per-day.

That'd be good for everyone else that isn't me

Because they'd be benefiting from all my extra votes

John Dvorak

> Me: able to downvote every answer in existence in a single day
> Also me: unable to upvote more than one answer per day

@Lyxal According to a simulation I made, after 10 years or so you'd have almost 2k votes/day. After 20, 70k, and 30, 2.5 million.

That's assuming you're still here in 30 years.

After 500 years, you'd have 780 quinvigintillion votes.

Everyone would be reputation rich lol

@Ausername that's enough to upvote every single post in a day

There'd be nothing left to upvote

12:03 PM

Exactly

Oh hey it really is noon utc time

You'd have broken Stack Exchange.

Then I would have served one of my purposes

Unrelated String

considering how much spam has wormed its way into various cuisines i wonder if there's some kind of
artisanal spam

Q: Drawing the Stack Overflow logo

12:21 PM

2

Welcome to the 1st game of ASCII logos. This will be a monthly game, if I hopefully didn't get suspended. I want everyone to enjoy making these. But I wanna talk about something. No one, and I mean no one, responded to my contact messages from my original account, and I wanted to have a chat wit...

code-golf ascii-art

New Sandboxed Posts

12:34 PM

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Time bomb KoTH In this challenge, players need to temper with a time bomb as late as possible without getting blasted in the face. Mechanics Each round, each bot receives the following argument: numbers played by all bots last round in the ascending order. number of points it received last round...

12:54 PM

@NewMainPosts And that account's going to get suspended as well

1:04 PM

I hope I would not miss the new sandboxed kotH.....

BTW lyxal's total votes are accurately 7777 now, I wonder if this was intentional or not

2:02 PM

You know what's sad

My top answer

@hyper-neutrino Here you go

and the only one that qualified for the top answers page in stack exchange

is about a rickroll

braincells--

leo3065

2:14 PM

So uh, I just posted a challenge to the sandbox and I am looking for some feedback: codegolf.meta.stackexchange.com/questions/2140/…

2:34 PM

@leo3065 pretty cool

and simplistic

also, just checking, is @RedwolfPrograms still a hivemind

Wow, the HNQ list really helped the answers on the xkcd KotH

Should've fgitw-ed that to get some rep :P

Neil

@user I like codegolf.stackexchange.com/a/224781/17602

3:06 PM

That question’s full of xkcd references:P

user509207

I'm curious what you guys think of my monthly game.

Razetime

3:56 PM

Which game

@Razetime i think the ascii stack exchange flag printing question series

user509207

@Razetime The question I recently posted. Also, it's not only Stack Exchange. There will be more types soon. Thinking of trying to make Samsung.

@ASCIILogos has moderators allowed you to use this account to post questions?

4:20 PM

@Wasif ??

@pxeger sorry but i cannot understand what you are meaning

I was just saying that to prevent them from posting further questions while suspended

not talking about the origin of it

they aren't suspended?

or are they a sockpuppet?

@pxeger Check their profile