Reasoning for Bank PO

Graylocke

2:35 AM

Well - the first question seems reasonably straight forward.

Follow the instructions on the number given.

8765403

First translate the number using the table.

8->K, etc.

You get KSRQLPM

Then check the special cases in order:

(i) Is the first digit odd and the last digit even? No. Ignore this rule.
(ii) Is the first digit even and the last digit odd? Yes! So we need to change the first encoding to $ and the last to the GBP symbol

(iii) Is there a 2 in the number? No. Ignore this rule.

(iv) Is there a 5? Yes. Is it preceded by an even number and followed by an even number? Yes! Okay so we need to replace that encoding with a Beta symbol.

We only need worry about rule (v) while checking the rules above, and 0s didn't really enter into the checking, so this is fine.

(Note that in the real world, 0 is very definitely even... so this is a weird rule!)

Anyway - after changing the first and last letter to dollars and pounds, and the middle 5 to a beta... which answer reflects this?

This isn't really a puzzle as much as an algorithm. All you need to do is step through the instructions to get an answer. You can do this in either direction to be able to answer the second half as well.

As for the second cut and paste... this is an interesting puzzle and just requires some looking at whether there is anything that could possibly relate the language letters to the given word.

Steps I went through:
Q1) Is there anything in common with the number of letters in the original word and the word in the new language?
A1) Yes. There are 3 letters in the input word, and 6 in the output word. The easiest reason (given this is meant to be solvable) is that every input letter becomes 2 output letters.

Q2) Is there any way of grouping the letters in the output word in pairs so that they have something in common? (in pairs, because I am guessing A1 above is for a reason!)
A2) It looks like it. If I look at each pair of letters: OQ, NP, SU, I can see that they are all letters that are near each other in the alphabet... in fact, they all have a single letter between them.

Q3) Okay - so are the letters between them of any use? This would convert from 6 letters to 3!
A3) Well, see if you can answer the question yourself from here.

Rajorshi Koyal

4:57 AM

Got you @Graylocke So kind of you..

Graylocke

No worries :)

As a future recommendation, this was a good way of dealing with asking for a more tutorial help. Note that if you post a question for help, good answers will be this in depth (but usually with the actual answer).

Rajorshi Koyal

Also which solving for the tricks of each and every question here what I am getting is the opposite alphabet analogy

I am seriously not able to judge what this means..

Graylocke

You are unlikely to get a time when someone is available to be online to go through the entire thing like a tutorial. The site is set up so that you post answers and then someone with time can post up a way to solve them.

@RajorshiKoyal I am not sure what you mean by this

Rajorshi Koyal

That is true @Graylocke but incase you could slightly guide me with this it would be extremely kind of you..

Ok

Let me post you the screenshot..

Graylocke

I will point out that what you need to learn is a technique, not a series of "tricks" that answer the question.

It isn't a series of "facts", but more like "ways of thinking about a problem".

Rajorshi Koyal

5:01 AM

Ok...So maybe I need to attend the classes and go by the hit and trial analogy..

Graylocke

So see how I answered the second question.

I had no idea how to solve it before I saw the question.

There was no method that I knew already... I just literally asked those questions of myself.

The question was assuming some relationship between two things... so what is in common between those things?

The same question to ask in the kinds of question Deusovi was helping you with.

Rajorshi Koyal

ok..What is common maybe that is what I am supposed to ask..

In this thinking technique what is really meant here?

Graylocke

Okay - so once again you are being asked to convert FROM a thing TO some other thing?

That's the pattern between the questions above and the ones you asked Deusovi, right?

In this case, the one you just posted... each letter you convert FROM... what happens?

Rajorshi Koyal

What is the opposite letter..How do you quanitfy this as..

Graylocke

Each FROM letter is swapped TO the same letter if you were counting from the opposite end of the alphabet.

Well if you were going to count letters in the alphabet, what number is A?

Rajorshi Koyal

5:07 AM

1

Graylocke

If you were going to count letters in the "opposite alphabet" (Z, Y, X, ...) what number is Z?

Rajorshi Koyal

26

Graylocke

It's 26 in the normal alphabet.

Rajorshi Koyal

ok..

Graylocke

so what number is it if you start counting from Z and work your way backwards?

Also 1

Rajorshi Koyal

5:08 AM

ok

Graylocke

So B is 2 in the normal alphabet...

Rajorshi Koyal

Y is 2 in the opposite sense..

Graylocke

right :)

all that diagram is showing is how to swap between a forward set and a backward set

"opposite"

like "opposite ends"

So if you had that machinre up there

and you put in the letters "CAKE"... what would you get out?

(Hint: the diagram has all those letters on it already! :) )

Graylocke

5:30 AM

@RajorshiKoyal Still there?

If not I have other things to do :)

Rajorshi Koyal

Yes..

I got the analogy..

Last question.

In such why can I not match the words in order?

Why do I infact need to check for common words?

@Graylocke Did you get my question?

Graylocke

5:45 AM

well - you can try doing that - it is a reasonable thing to try

but what do you notice as soon as you try that?

in fact, let me ask you this... given the first two sentences... what does "sy" mean?

Rajorshi Koyal

time..

By why do they not occupy the same sequence..

Please explain thi to me..

Graylocke

I agree. But that means that it can't be in order.

Why? Who knows. Why encode it at all? "Why?" isn't really part of the question :)

You know it means "Time" because that is the only thing in common between the two statements with "sy" in them.

Rajorshi Koyal

Yes..

Graylocke

Which also tells you that they aren't in order.

Rajorshi Koyal

ok..

Graylocke

5:49 AM

So here is the overall PATTERN for all these kinds of questions.

It's either a "code" or a "language" or a "if this is this then what is this" kind of question... so therefore what you are being asked to understand... is what are the rules?

You have to assume that there is some rule moving things from one set of things and changing them into another set of things...

So... imagine a machine which is taking in things on a conveyor belt... running them through a big black box... and then spitting them out the other side

input thing ----> [BLACK BOX] ----> output thing

So each of these puzzles has this pattern underneath it. It's just phrased differently. Either the Black Box is a code, or a language or simply a set of rules.

And sometimes you are given the rules of the Black Box and have to work out how the input would change into the output. And sometimes you are given inputs and outputs and you have to work out the rules of the Black Box are.

Does that make sense?

So the main "strategy" here is to work out how you would test this machine.

In this case, someone handed you their test results... they shoved in 4 different 4-word sentences into the machine... and each one came out with 4 different 2-letter words.

Rajorshi Koyal

ok got you....

Graylocke

So in order to work out why you got an "sy" in the output... you need to see what went into the machine.

If it is a "code" then it's the same thing... you aren't looking at words anymore you are looking at characters, but everything works exactly the same way

So if you are told how the machine works already... then what you need to do is apply the rules to make an input turn into an output.

Or alternatively, use the rules to work out how you got the output.

That's all you are being asked to do in all these questions.

There's no real "strategy" to solve them... except to think about how you could work out what the "Black Box" is actually doing.

Does that help at all?

Any strategy you use is correct as long as you keep that kind of analogy in mind.

For example, one way of solving the code you just posted is to look to see if you can unravel the whole code. Look for places where two inputs have the same word, and see if there are two outputs that are the same... and make a list of everything you learn.

Another way might be to look at only the bit you need to answer the multiple choice question.

You need the output word for "Invest" - can you find that out from the sentences above?

Rajorshi Koyal

I got the analogy thank you so much for your time..

Graylocke

"Invest" is unique to the second input, are there any unique bits in the second output?

Awesome :)

If you need anything else or have a different problem type, or you want to work through you solving one of these problems step by step, let me know.

Rajorshi Koyal

:-).Sure.

Graylocke

6:02 AM

If I have time, I will. Or at some point in the day I will come here and post up a step-by-step. Or you can post it as a question and anyone on the site can answer - if they don't answer well enough you can ask follow up questions in the comments :)

Rajorshi Koyal

6:20 AM

I am unable to figure this out...

@Graylocke Incase you are free can you help me out with this one?

Graylocke

6:52 AM

Uhm yes - that looks like "Opposite Alphabet" again.

Though...

Notice that this Black Box has a second rule... "swap the order of the letters"

So not only do the alphabets swap, but the first letter of the input is converted and put into the last letter of the output

@RajorshiKoyal hopefully that makes sense

HTM

@RajorshiKoyal Looks like an Atbash cipher plus a reversal

Graylocke

@HTM That too ;p

Rajorshi Koyal

7:07 AM

@HTM Why is it called an Atbash cipher I could not follow the wikipedia article properly

HTM

@RajorshiKoyal I mean, the name of it isn't the important part, it's really just another term for an "opposite alphabet" substitution

Rajorshi Koyal

ok got you..

HTM

Here's a tool that can automatically convert between normal and Atbash text: dcode.fr/atbash-cipher

For example, SIMILAR encodes into HRNROZI, which is IZORNRH backwards

BTW since you seem to be encountering quite a few of these types of code and cipher problems, I would definitely recommend reading up on some of the more common cipher types so that they're easier to spot when they do come up. This website has a list of most of the major ones

And there's a meta post right here on Puzzling that has a list of code tools, but I can't access the site right now, so I'll find it as soon as I can

Transcript for

Reasoning for Bank PO