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00:00 - 23:0023:00 - 00:00

12:02 AM
anyone around for Codenames?
 
busy, sorry
 
12:36 AM
@JeremyDover oh, I'm relieved. At least that one I saw in qat
sarsaparilla's gonna enjoy this fortnight's FTC
 
0
Q: Oh no, c'mon! I want to take a break from riddles!

zixuanAt last I finally cornered the Atom Riddles! But there's one more before Christmas! This time's gonna be different! It's still going to be that the answer is an atomic element. The puzzle is a acrostic, but the first letters aren't revealed, you have to find them! That's where the lateral thinkin...

 
1:12 AM
0
Q: Find me if you can

Vassilis Parassidis I am a five letter word. If lost, I can help. SCRAMBLED, you can put something in me. Part of me divides people. Part of me is contained in many games. BACKWARDS, part of me appeals to many people and another part is used by many people. What am I?

 
1:24 AM
Is this true [lateral-thinking]? It seems more like a list of clues stated somewhat cryptically.
 
looks like it's not, judging by nilster's answer
but i'm not 100% sure [cryptic-clues] would fit as a replacement
 
It's not [cryptic-clues], that tag has a specific disclaimer that clues stated cryptically don't fall under it
 
right
what about [enigmatic-puzzle]? (i know, people like to put it on everything)
 
No, because [acrostic] is given; the puzzle's mechanism is not a secret
 
facepalm ... uh anyway
 
1:33 AM
I'm not sure [crossword-clues] would fit either
Basically I don't know how to tag this, I'm just pretty sure the current tags are not the best choice
 
hm, i'm not sure either
 
you know something is hard when deus can't figure it out :p
 
like, it just seems to be word association, and there's a reason that [word-association] is not a tag here
 
Is it off-topic?
 
I think it's just not a very good puzzle. (I dunno, maybe it turns out to be better than it looks.)
 
1:39 AM
it looks to be an attempt at a puzzle
 
I think something that's trying to be a puzzle shouldn't generally be reckoned off-topic.
Might attract some downvotes, though...
 
okay they've deleted it
I looked at it, there was a "why the downvotes?" comment, I downvoted (now at -2), they deleted.
 
 
1 hour later…
2:54 AM
I asked my mom to pick between Statue Park, Sashigane, and LITS (she doesn't know/understand any of them) and she picked Sashigane, so I'm going to attempt to make a serious Sashigane now.
 
hm
 
 
1 hour later…
4:15 AM
hehe, I think I got a decently interesting Sashigane!
okay so the more I re-solve this thing the easier I think it is. but that might just be me knowing the deductions?
 
4:38 AM
@msh210 that's correct
 
4:54 AM
@Sciborg, I think I will be posting a Sashigane tomorrow!
 
CCCC: Getting undressed, getting dressed, getting undressed: good game with Elizabeth (who made up many) at the entrance of some ancient landmark (7,7)
 
whistles that's one nice surface
(I cannot whistle in real life, but I can in text form!)
 
5:14 AM
@bobble thanks. It's a bit too long, but I was trying to make one based on @jafe 's and that's what I could come up with. There's another reason I'm dissatisfied with it, too, which I can explain later.
 
 
1 hour later…
6:25 AM
@bobble same
 
7:04 AM
@bobble it's basically rounding your lips and blowing some air out, whilst rising the pitch :)
 
7:24 AM
0
Q: Pentomino tiling on wrap-around 5x5 grids

BubblerIt is known that P pentominoes cannot tile a 5x5 square board. Q1: If the east and west edges of the 5x5 square board are "wrapping around" (if you move a piece through one of the edges, the part appears on the opposite edge), can you tile it with P pentominoes? Q2: In addition to the above, the ...

 
7:48 AM
hm? n?
don't matter. i come and leave in peace.
 
hmn
 
 
2 hours later…
9:59 AM
I think this is **HANGING GARDENS** (of Babylon): (-c)HANGIN(-g) + G(-ood) + G(-ame) + [ARDEN](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elizabeth_Arden,_Inc.) + S(-ome).
"Changing" = "Getting undressed, getting dressed", undressing that removes its first and last letters. "Good game" = GG. Elizabeth Arden of cosmetics ('make up') fame. All producing one of the 7 wonders of the ancient world!
And I really suck at chat markdown...
 
@Stiv yep!
The reason I was dissatisfied with the clue is that it used one "getting undressed" exactly the same way the clue it was copying did.
@Stiv no, it just doesn't work right in multiline messages
 
@msh210 Ah, that's my problem there then... And I enjoyed the wordplay BTW :)
 
thanks
That went quicker than I'd thought it would.
 
I figured that 'ancient landmark' was likely the def part, and put my geography cap on to come up with something fitting (7,7) :)
A working-backwards job!
 
@Stiv :-)
 
10:30 AM
CCCC: 'Dish best served cold', perhaps, in Disney's Aladdin (5)
(A quick and easy one, as otherwise I won't get down to work!)
 
11:19 AM
_s alad_. Nice clue.
 
@msh210 That's the one! :)
 
hehe, that was also the answer to jeremy dover's hours ago
16 hours ago, by Jeremy Dover
CCCC: Swiss chard ends over hearts of palm and romaine (5)
 
CCCC: Quality nutjob, in total (7)
 
@oAlt No way!! I didn't spot that one at all. I was working off a very out-of-date copy of the C4 spreadsheet that I found linked in chat and saw that at least it hadn't appeared there. Is the up-to-date spreadsheet linked anywhere on the site?
 
11:35 AM
oh wait-- now that you have mentioned it, i just noticed that it fell off the starboard again
and as far as i know the current c4 spreadsheet has only been updated up to february of this year
 
@oAlt That's basically the version I found then...
 
:0 i myself havent updated for a while cuz busy D:
either way, its fine cuz both definition and wordplay are different in the two clues
and entirely coincidental
@GarethMcCaughan @Deusovi CCCC message vanished once more
 
Gosh, it would have been so cringe if it had been close to Jeremy's unintentionally - haha! Ah well, I was happy with this one anyway :)
 
:D
 
12:17 PM
CCCC is Cryptic Clue Chat Chains! Latest clue is ⤴/⤵ there! Join the fun! See Deusovi's Cryptic Clue Guide and GPR's Archive & Statistics of past clues.
6
Re-posted and re-pinned. I think the more other people star it the longer it will stay there.
 
12:34 PM
no
pins expire after a certain amount of time, the amount of stars is irrelevant
if it's starred a lot it has a chance of staying on the board even after the pin expires, but that's about it
 
1:29 PM
0
Q: Request: Restriction to ask a new question for new users

OrayThere are some users who sign up for puzzling but they just ask a question (most probably from ongoing contest, or for spams, or unrelated questions to puzzling etc) and leave the page. Therefore I believe to ask a question in Puzzling, there has to be some limitations such as; At least 100+ rep...

 
@Stiv No worries. I've mentioned before that I once put together a Cryptic crossword draft which had 10 different clues for the same answer. Repetition is not necessarily a bad thing. But it was in that cryptic, so it'll never see light of day.
 
 
1 hour later…
3:01 PM
1
Q: Are just plain sudokus allowed?

zixuanIs it okay for questions to have just plain sudokus? Or do they have to have a element in them? Because, I don't see any posts with just plain sudokus, but are they allowed?

 
@JeremyDover Ha, that just makes me want to see that crossword more!
 
3:22 PM
Hello!
 
hi @zixuan :0
Jul 17 at 2:08, by oAlt
@JeremyDover tidy it up and use it for april fools, hehe
same @Stiv @JeremyDover
although i think the answer had been mentioned already so not worth posting D:
Jul 16 at 19:04, by Jeremy Dover
Gridding is my weak suit. I feel like I end up cluing a "there" and "yes" a lot, which is not so fun for normal clues, but can really be a challenge for cryptics. I once created a cryptic where (I think) 10 of the entries had the answer AWARE, but with different cluing for each.
 
4:01 PM
-3
Q: Show that no lines need cross

fominThere are n red points and n blue points in the plane. Show that you can always join all the red and blue points with straight lines so that no two lines cross. Each point can have exactly one line joining to or from it. No three points are colinear.

 
4:16 PM
Sashigane out! I really hope this one isn't too easy.
It has logic that I think is fun, at the very least
 
1
Q: Sashigane: 5 arrows + 1 six

bobbleThis is a Sashigane puzzle, where you divide the grid into L shapes. Rules taken from Nikoli: Divide the grid into L shaped blocks - one block wide. All blocks must be L shaped. Cells with open circles form the knee (bend) in a block. The number in an open circle shows the number of cells in its...

 
AHHHH FINALS
 
VIRTUAL HUGS
 
 
1 hour later…
5:39 PM
worth rolling back this edit adding MathJax to a post?
 
4
Q: What function is it?

AlexanderA function of one variable $y = f(x)$. However, I suspect that the function does not need to necessarily be strictly mathematical. If $x = 1$, then $y = 0$. If $x = 2$, then $y = 0$. If $x = 10$, then $y = 9$. If $x = 3$, then $y = 3$. If $x = 20$, then $y = 18$. If $x = 1990$, then $y = 1989$. W...

 
it's just defining variables and functions, so I'd say go right ahead
 
6:07 PM
2
Q: A flag-packing problem

StivAn entry in Fortnightly Topic Challenge #45: Flags You are provided with a 9x9 grid of squares and 21 minimalistic flags (pictured below, all shown to scale). TASK: Assign a colour (Black, Blue, Green, Orange, Red, White, or Yellow) to each of the 81 numbered cells so that the grid can be exac...

 
@bobble It's over
I mean I have two more days of finals, but the math (the most stressful one) is over
 
well done North! :) how'd it go?
 
yay!
 
@Dmihawk Not too shabby
Pretty easy
But I'm a bit nervous
 
woohooo!
 
6:16 PM
I'm glad I studied
 
unrelated digression:
5 votes + 1 answer on my 5 arrows + 1 six question :D
 
Aw crap I missed at least one question :(
 
what score are you aiming for?
 
The highest I can get
I'm not really sure what the lowest I can get
 
7:14 PM
@Deusovi Hey, do you think you can handle the flags on this post? It's really hot and I want my comments to be visible during this period.
 
done
 
Thanks!
 
7:40 PM
Grandmaster Puzzles has a typo in the theme of today's LITS ("Tetroomino") and it's bugging me
 
8:18 PM
1
Q: Romance... Despair... Nutcracker?

ention everyoneHere is a five letter word: ##### It's romantic to have a #####. It's depressing to be #####ed. A nutcracker's job's to #####.

 
8:47 PM
@bobble that was a nice sashigane!
 
thanks! it didn't come out as hard as I would've liked, but there was some fun Ghost Piece logic I though.
'borg!
 
Hello! Sorry I was not here to see it come out, but your Sashigane is indeed super fun :D
 
did you finish it?
 
@bobble that was a nice sashigane!
 
... you sent the same message twice, Deus
 
8:49 PM
I'm guessing slow internet, that happens
or tried to edit on mobile
 
yeah bad internet
i got the prompt to resend it because it didn't go through
 
a [grid-deduction] answer that doesn't have any logic but just promises a "Full write-up soon"... grrr
 
(hey {mick, bobble, deus, mith}!)
 
\o
 
o/
 
8:55 PM
ooh yay, ascii art stick figure waves
 
\O_O/
 
are you okay bobble
 
^-^
 
is that...?
 
glasses
 
8:56 PM
=^.^=
 
o3o
 
/o\
 
~_~
 
I finished the sashigane, it took me a bit and I double-checked against hexomino's answer - we pretty much followed the same solve path :)
it was a nice thing to do over lunch
 
yay!
what did you think of the smaller size?
 
8:59 PM
The smaller size made it much more straightforward, the big sprawling sashiganes are the ones that trip me up.
 
North!
is what way?
(sorry, I had to make that joke at least once)
 
opposite South?
 
North-East! nice to see you
 
9:00 PM
Gotta study for APUSH but I am SO not stressed any more
Now that math is out of the way
 
How are finals going?
 
what's APUSH?
 
@bobble . . .
 
AP US History
 
@Dmihawk AP US History
 
9:01 PM
yikes
 
@bobble That ... seems harmless to me? I've done much the same myself from time to time. I solve the puzzle, I post the solution, I tidy up my notes on how I did it (or write it up at all), I post the explanations.
 
@Dmihawk Eh, not that worried. History is a strong subject of mine
 
Washington was president once...
 
I just have to review the stuff and get the work done
 
do I can America now?
 
9:01 PM
Hehe
You also have to know that Lincoln was president once before you can be America
 
I know he got shot!
 
Bang bang and he fell
 
also that we did a bunch of wars
 
Oh yeah that too
 
The only objection I can see is: it's not fair because someone else might be writing up explanations as they go, and that other person is less likely to get their answer accepted if I've got there first with just the solution. That doesn't feel to me like a very strong objection.
 
9:02 PM
I live in a country that was colonised ~150 years ago, we don't have much in the way of history lol
 
cough Vietnam War was stupid cough
 
And it seems to me that the incentives are (at least arguably) better if the common practice is to post the answer first and then write up the explanations -- because then there isn't any pressure to write the explanations quickly, which tends to make for worse explanations.
 
the most important piece of American history, the founding of Hostess and invention of Ding Dongs
 
I feel like it's preferable to always take your time and post grid deduction solutions with full explanations up front, otherwise it can come across as just trying to competitively "claim the spot" and not really explaining your logical process or engaging with the puzzle's intent. And you might also snipe somebody who had a really good potential answer since they'll see that they were beaten to it and get discouraged from doing their own writeup. (Happens to me all the time.)
 
Ugh Korean War. Screw you America and Russia
And Japan. And China. And you know what, Europe. And everyone else
 
9:04 PM
I took APUSH last school year and because of COVID and all College Board (the benevolent non-profit which administers the AP tests) decided that history ended after WWII - we didn't have to learn anything after that. No Cold War, no wonky Fiscal Policy shenanigans, no 9/11, etc.
 
@Sciborg I totally agree
 
@bobble Saaame, except with that happened with WHAP
 
Because, you know, nothing important happened after WWII
 
Right, right
Civil rights movement? Pffft
 
didn't the Civil War fix all that?
 
9:06 PM
After slaves were free, everyone was happy AND NOTHING BAD EVER HAPPENED AGAIN NOPE NEVER
 
@Sciborg If you do post explanations, then I'm not really seeing why it matters if it briefly comes across as not wanting to. As for the sniping thing: I am always going to solve things without writing up every detail as I go, because it's much easier that way. (At least for grid-deduction puzzles.) So if the norm goes the other way then I am going to get sniped by people who happen to find it convenient to solve and write up at the same time, [... continues]
... and who finish their writeup before I do mine. I don't think that's a particularly awful outcome, for the avoidance of doubt; it's inevitable that sometimes different solving styles will result in one person getting sniped by another without any particular difference in actual puzzle-solving skill.
 
Only in the Sphinx's Lair, two conversations happening at the same time: one about the AP Histories and one about [grid-deduction] answer etiquette
 
North, been meaning to ask... what level of education are you at?
 
For the avoidance of doubt, I completely agree that if someone posts a solution and never explains it then that's much worse than posting a solution with explanations.
 
@Dmihawk Junior in high school
 
9:09 PM
frantically googling
 
Senior over here. (Which should be apparent from how I have econ and college apps)
 
I'm in 11th grade, if that's what you're asking
 
still haven't decided if I want to head to college / university
 
Graduated college last year, currently doing entry-level career stuff :)
 
so this is your penultimate year of high school?
 
9:10 PM
Yup
(nice word)
 
gotcha, we'd call you 6th form
I get very confused in the US education system
 
Senior = last year of high school
 
I thought you said you were in NZ?
Or am I confusing you with someone else?
 
New Zealand is over by Australia, so he's not in America.
 
yeah I'm a kiwi, why's that?
 
9:11 PM
Ohhhh I'm so dumb I kept thinking NZ was New Mexico
 
that's nm
 
Goodness gracious, North :p
 
Z = Mexico?
 
I have zero clue why I kept thinking NZ was New Mexico
Don't ask, I have zero clue
 
9:12 PM
haha all good, I'm all the way down in the south pacific (and in the future for most of you :P)
 
New Zexico.
 
Zew Nexico, of course
 
@PrinceNorthLæraðr "orange = spell" level of sense
 
and New Mealand
 
haha to be a true kiwi, you have to pronounce it "Nu Zulnd"
 
9:13 PM
@bobble Remind me what that was about
 
we mumble our vowels
 
In Codenames, caird tried to clue SPELL with "orange"
 
I've never heard a New Zealander call themselves a kiwi, and I absolutely adore that
Going to call you a kiwi from now on
 
@bobble Ah right
 
(to be fair, he had to somehow clue 3 words in one turn or else I would win)
 
9:14 PM
you need to hand around more kiwis then
 
that's what we call ourselves...
 
@bobble y'all need to hop into Discord, games happen much more frequently there
including right now
 
there's a PSE discord?
O_O
 
(I'm SMing)
 
i'm too shy for the Discord...
 
9:14 PM
@Dmihawk CCGC-gaming
 
but you see me and Discord have a relationship where I run away very fast because I'm too shy
 
@bobble I keep most of the other channels muted
I just have #contact, #codenames, and #among-us unmuted
 
have joined :)
 
(thumbsup)
 
I am googling "kiwis" and going on a small rabbit hole, never knew a lot of this about NZ :D
 
9:17 PM
@Mithical I've explained way too many times why I don't use discord. Too lazy to explain
 
school computer?
 
Yup
Phone is really bad with discord
 
i'll join the discord if you promise to let my shy ass just lurk in the background
 
of course :eyes:
@PrinceNorthLæraðr if you're using the webbrowser it's awful
if you download the app it's great
 
1. We use the metric system 2. We put tomato sauce on everything 3. It's AL-YOU-MIN-E-UM
and that's NZ in a nutshell :P
 
9:18 PM
@Mithical The app just doesn't interact well with my phone for some reason. It's a pain to type stuff in
 
...and you have LotR fans flying in
 
on giant eagles?
 
usually, except our borders are closed at the moment
 
Metric system is amazing America you stupid measuring with inches why
 
if you guys love tomato sauce and aluminium, NZ sounds like my kind of place honestly :P
 
9:19 PM
It's ALUMINUM
:P
 
ALUMINIUM
FIGHT ME
 
not here it ain't
 
@Sciborg Are you even America
 
Don't colour my perceptions like that. Do you like the flavour of tomato sauce?
 
it's aluminium, Americans are weird
 
9:20 PM
I reject America's periodic table and substitute my own
 
+1 Mythbusters reference :D
 
hold on, pulling out my periodic table history book
 
But our British friends are right about potatoes: chips are chunky, crisps are crisp.
 
okay so first off this book spells it "aluminium"
 
Wise words
@bobble Not American
 
9:24 PM
> Incidentally, I use the international spelling "aluminium" instead of the strictly America "aluminum" throughout this book. This spelling disagreement traces its roots back to the rapid rise of this metal. When chemists in the early 1800s speculated about the existence of element thirteen, they used both spellings but eventually settled on the extra i. That spelling paralleled the recently discovered barium, magnesium, sodium, and strontium.
 
Aluminium is the way God intended
 
@Sciborg agreed
@Dmihawk "i reject your reality and substitute my own"?
 
> When Charles Hall applied for patents on his electric current process, he used the extra i, too. However, when advertising his shiny metal, Hall was looser with his language. There's debate about whether cutting the i was intentional or a fortuitous mistake on advertising fliers, but when Hall saw "aluminum," he thought it a brilliant coinage. He dropped the vowel permanently, and with it a syllable, which aligned his product with classy platinum.
 
@Sciborg yes there are British lords but no American lords
 
> His new metal caught on so quickly and grew so economically important that "aluminum" became indelibly stamped on the American psyche. As always in the United States, money talks.
(I've just pulled the latter half of page 237 from The Disappearing Spoon by Sam Kean. You should read it, it's great)
 
9:28 PM
I *love Sam Kean. Read all of his books
He is an absolutely brilliant science writer
 
@Sciborg wouldn't that be אֲלוּמִינְיוּם ?
 
My favorite science writer is Siddhartha Mukherjee - I've quoted from his The Gene in this chat before I believe
 
Read that one too, haven't read his other stuff but The Gene was a beautiful book.
 
The Emperor of All Maladies (about cancer) is absolutely wonderful, you should check it out if you liked The Gene
 
Will add it to my reading list :)
my favorite Sam Kean book is The Tale of the Dueling Neurosurgeons, i was absolutely obsessed with that book
 
9:32 PM
???
 
beautifully written, lots of fascinating neuroscience stuff
 
By the way, I blame @Dmihawk for this digression into science books
 
oooh then I accept full responsibility!
 
darn you for bringing up "aluminium"
 
more for the science books and less the Al debate
 
9:33 PM
i'm currently getting my ass kicked in Codenames
 
sorry
 
better go hang the washing out, back in 10 or so
 
10:04 PM
@Sciborg did you ever finish yesterday's Doodle Request?
 
I couldn't get it looking to my satisfaction :p
drawing everyone at once is hard
 
but if you left anyone out they would be sad
this riddle is at +11/-11, which is a lot of people voting on one thing, and a lot of people who feel both ways
 
10:21 PM
Dang, didn't even realize that one was so controversial.
 
It also has 3 close-votes
 
10:37 PM
Hm I don't know about how I feel about that puzzle
+12/-12 now
 
I voted to close under the speculative/undefined close reason
 
Yeah, I'd unfortunately have to agree with you
It's not that a counter-example is needed as much as the question just is waaaay too vague
 
It takes a very good riddle to pull off a two-liner, and I don't think this one succeeded.
 
Also, I disagree with the "anti"
 
> Dis- is a negative prefix. ... It means not or none. When we add dis- to the beginning of a word, we give it the opposite meaning.
 
10:41 PM
The prexis "dis-" is simply "not" or "opposite", but "anti-" is more specific in that it means "against"
 
Do you have anything to add here, 'borg?
 
I would agree speculative, the clues seem too vague
Riddles are tricky to get right
 
ack, I can't concentrate
I have two tests tomorrow and I need to study but I can't
 
Stay aliiiiive. Stay aliiiiiiiiiive I have never seen the general so-
 
Ah, ah, ah, ah, staying alive, staying aliveeeeee
 
10:50 PM
No one gets my Hamilton reference :(((
 
hey I got it
I'm also being far more topsy-turvy gender-wise than normal, so that's fun
 
Ohh, I haven't heard Hamilton songs in forever - now i feel bad
Are you having what i call a "complete gender confusion day"?
 
Everyday is topsy-turvy at the feast of foooooools
Gosh the musicals! It won't stop
 
I was genderless yesterday until right after biking, then I was male, this morning I was non-binary but now I'm not sure??? Ack.
 
I can't say i swap around that often, that's probably quite confusing :p
 
10:55 PM
I was having a nice string of genderless days, which is nice and non-confusing
 
been on a streak of having strongly female she/her days, so partner has been jokingly texting me stuff like "guess i have to tell everyone i'm straight now"
 
what a queer bunch we are
 
Can't relate shrugs
 
hey, i'd rather have a bunch of queer folks than none at all :D
everyone here is valid and lovely regardless of rainbow-ness
 
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