last day (135 days later) » 

4:58 AM
(also back for real this time - got distracted, sorry)
ready to continue with fillomino?
@bobble
 
it's fine, I had a chance to work on my FTC entry. ready now!
 
cool
so, i think it's impossible to have all of the outer 1s see the same number
 
why?
 
i'm not 100% sure yet
but
if that happens, it leads to these snake segments
 
why?
 
5:03 AM
the bars
one sec
 
but why do the 1s being the same require that?
 
"we can't block yellow into being a rectangle
so either the snake ends in the yellow corner (yellow itself, or just above it), or the numbers aren't all the same (which implies that the snake ends in pink)"
the snake must end in the yellow corner if all the numbers are the same
meaning red and blue cells are nonsnakes
and if we have the other side of those bars as also nonsnakes, there is a problem because then the 1s don't see the same thing
 
but why must it end in yellow if all numbers are the same? wouldn't it have to end in yellow no matter what?
 
one sec let me try to reconstruct my logic from earlier
hm wait does it have to end there no matter what
yeah actually i think you're right - it will end in yellow corner no matter what
 
or it could just not go to yellow?
 
5:08 AM
no, that's not possible
say the snake visits neither R9C10 or R10C10
 
because either side of the line is different, and if different numbers then the 1s on either edge can't be same
 
right
 
and the same logic holds for all the other corner areas, so now we can place snake segments
 
so that means these are the two endpoints of our snake - somewhere in the left bit of circles, and somewhere in the right bit
 
you're missing a wall between R5C9 and R5C10
 
5:13 AM
oh am i
so i am
 
(hey mith!)
 
also, R2C7 can't be snake, otherwise R1C6 or R2-3C8 is boxed off in a rectangle, so R1C6 is snake
 
ah you're right
 
you put updated wall in the wrong place - it's a vertical border
 
5:16 AM
...oh thanks
 
I added in the fs now, to prevent rectangles in that area. Can we say anything about the square I have my cursor on?
 
well it's not a snake
i think we can say this though - the two segments i have marked with an X are not used by the snake
 
I think that's all right? I was trying to see if I could declare it as either definitely part of or definitely not part of f
@Deusovi because Rectangle Is Bad
 
top one's pretty easy; bottom comes from...
yes that
Rectangle Is Bad
oh i see something
say region A (red) doesn't go right
it can be at most 6
because otherwise it squeezes the snake into touching itself
but we already know our corner number is bigger than 6, because otherwise blue would be a rectangle
 
why couldn't it be 8 and let the snake escape through R6?
 
5:22 AM
because where would the other end go
it would have to escape through R7, but then the snake would touch itself
 
I'm not entirely convinced that the lower X is true (probably should have mentioned this earlier)
oh wait I see why
 
yeah we can't make R8C1 not-a-rectangle if we use the lower X
 
okay, so red goes right then
 
so, current progress here (i've switched to your letters so it's easier)
 
how in the world do you make those images
 
5:26 AM
(oh and F connects to both adjacent squares)
 
@Deusovi why?
 
uh you have F in all three squares there too
i just didn't mark it
oh my bad, i can see how that was ambiguous
 
Oh, I thought you were talking about R3-4C7
 
yeah my bad
ok so if D is the snake, E can't go through the lower X either (edit: no, it can, but it can't just go that way)
 
some stuff we know about the number the 1s can see:
C9 & C10 both must see >=7, so
R1 & R2 both must see >=7, so
C1 & C2 both must see >=7, so
R10 must see >= 7, so
R9 must see >=7
(I can explain the logic for any of those if needed)
 
5:32 AM
yeah, agreed
 
@Deusovi so e can extend rightwards? two?
 
and you just did that
 
yeah, E must extend at least two rightwards, or otherwise it makes R1C8 into a rectangle (or crushes the snake at the top)
hm, i think i've convinced myself that R10C7 can't be snake
 
I think we've passed the break-in stage, yes?
 
5:36 AM
probably?
why
were you just looking to do the break-in and then continue solo?
 
because the hint is only for break-in, so no more looking at the hints for help
 
ah yeah
 
which I was totally doing, but it wasn't helping
9 mins ago, by bobble
Oh, I thought you were talking about R3-4C7
still not sure why these are F
or are they not F, just non-snake?
 
they're not
green is "not snake"
yeah
ok i have successfully convinced myself that R10C7 cannot be a snake
 
I would love to hear this explanation
 
5:39 AM
if r10c7 is a snake we get all of that (lighter gray = snake, yellow = nonsnake)
and now we can't make B a nonrectangle and still reach one of the bottom-right targets
 
I agree with this, now what can be done with it?
(also I keep trying to convince myself that this is us collaborating, but really you're mostly solving while I ask for explanations)
 
...we can mark R10C7 as "not a snake"
i have no idea how this is helpful but it's information at least
(shh no that's not true)
 
mark R10C6 as "not a snake" while you're at it
oh wait but what if D is snake
aggh
 
oh?
yeah
 
@bobble you have become a rubber duck. much luck and success in your newfound role
 
5:42 AM
can I be a rubber squishy crown instead?
 
Bwahahaha, SE's April Fools thing made it in there
 
okay, so D is at least 5, right? because it has to be a non-rect. if it is 6 or greater, then it E has to either be the snake or 8 or greater, which I'm not sure will fit? maybe?
 
@Mithical suddenly i want a rubber duck so it can help me debug stuff
 
hm, how will it not fit
if E is the snake it can go up-right-right-up-up, and i think that works
 
I'm about 12% sure that an 8 or greater won't fit
 
5:47 AM
@merrybot James Vietch might have one to spare
 
I wasn't saying that E-as-snake wouldn't fit
(should this solving be split off into its own chatroom?)
 
well if D is 6+, E must be the snake
(yeah we could do that - i'll migrate)
126 messages moved from The Sphinx's Lair
alright here we go
 
something else useful (?) - R1C8 can't be snake, because it can't escape
 
R8C1, yeah - and R8C2 too
 
you can add more green squares to your pretty picture!
 
5:52 AM
probably makes sense to take out that X too
 
snake can't escape through the gap in R4, because then R2-3C4-5 can't prevent a rectangle
that's another X
 
ooh good catch
wait i'm actually not convinced there
 
and that X gives R6C4 as snake, because that's the only way to escape
 
why is this bad
 
oh I was pretending that the snake couldn't touch the R3 border
which is.. not true
 
5:57 AM
weird deduction: R5C3 not snake
because it would touch whatever path it isn't a part of
 
this is true!
 
i think it's absolutely useless
but true!
 
the two green spots near F have to be part of at least a 5, to prevent consecutive
how is this useful? shrugs
 
wait why is R1C7 not snake?
 
5:59 AM
R7C1?
 
oh because Rectangle Bad
 
yeah
 
and yes, R7C1
 
Looks interesting, what kind of puzzle is it?
 
oh boy
 
it's a snake no-rectangles non-consecutive skyscrapers borders fillomino
 
Fillomino, and then all of these variations
 
you know, a perfectly normal puzzle type
 
I'm also going to have to go to sleep really soon, so can this wait until tomorrow?
 
sure!
 
6:04 AM
I'll stay in here and stare at the puzzle until I have to leave - try to remember it well enough to solve in my sleep :D
 
that is quite unlikely to happen, you know
:p
 
good luck!
(ooh r4c4 snake)
(and r6c2)
 
agreed on both counts
 
ooh wait progress
that means that the top segment can't escape by going down from r4c4
because then it would run into the bottom segment
so it must escape through row 4
 
and it must the R4 border on one side, and one side only, making A 8 and therefore a bunch of other stuff must be 8
and now I really have to leave - bye!
 
6:08 AM
aw see ya
(hm i'm not sure why it can't be 7)
 
 
10 hours later…
4:10 PM
Yeah, I realized it could also be 7 as soon as I closed the computer :D
 
 
1 hour later…
5:38 PM
I got a proof that if R5C9 is non-snake, then the snake can't escape down C8, because then g & b can't both be non-rect. Currently looking for a way to extend this logic to either rule out escaping down C8 entirely (and maybe C9), or rule out R5C9 as non-snake
(by which I mean declare R5C9 as snake)
 
why does g have to be non-snake?
oh wait
misread what you said
yeah that makes sense
 
extension of if-g-is-non-snake: also no escaping across R6, because then no room for the R1 & 2 snake
 
right
 
am I falling too far down a rabbit hole?
 
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
oh hold on i was missing that bar in C6
yeah with my "R10C7 can't be snake" thing that might help a lot
 
5:47 PM
 
further into the hole: e & c must be the endpoints, because there wouldn't be room any other way
 
sure i agree
 
I'm struggling to figure out how to make this useful, so I'll give up on this line of reasoning for now
 
hm we did figure out that the number for A/B must be either 7 or 8 though, right?
 
5:48 PM
yep, can't possibly be higher (no room) or lower (because B must be rect)
 
right
that seems useful
 
I think R8C3 must be non-snake, because if it is snake there is no way to fit the snake and a non-rect B and a non-rect R7C7 in
see any problems with this idea?
 
well we already figured out that neither of the two cells you've marked as snake on the bottom are snakes
so that's an easier route to a contradiction
 
oh yeah I hadn't marked them on my grid
but R8C3 = non-snake, right?
 
yeah i agree
 
5:58 PM
because e just doesn't have the space it needs
returns to staring at grid
 
i believe we can rule out R9C6 snake
because it would have to take that route immediately (before visiting the other corners), and then we couldn't get it back out to visit the others
 
processing
I agree
 
i also think we can rule out... R7C7 snake?
because it couldn't visit there near the end
and if it visited near the start we have too much crammed together again
 
6:14 PM
you're missing another border between R8C8 and R8C9
 
oh come on how did i not notice that
thank you
 
should make the ruling out easier?
 
6:42 PM
And I agree on R7C7
 
hm
if E is snake, can we fit a 7 region above it
 
anything wrong with this?
 
hm, no, i think you're right
i was thinking about that option but wasn't sure if it was bad
d would have to be 7, filling its entire bottom row segment as well as R9C6 -- but i don't think that leads us to any contradictions
 
could you post board updated with the new border & the latest non-snake square?
 
7:01 PM
I'm thinking that R7C3 is non-snake, because if it was snake that would force R8C3 into a rectangle. Any problems with this?
 
ooh yeah i think that's right
 
which means snake escapes through R6, so a bunch more snake squares
or, no, maybe through C4?
 
R6 snake must go down through either C4 or C6 to connect to E or D, yes?
 
yeah
 
7:05 PM
which means R6C7 is non-snake, so R5C7 is also non-snake
oh, wait, nope
 
hm i think that's actually true
because if you push things left like that, the snake will have to go to E
and then you can't fit a 7+3 in the left side
 
what about 7+4?
L-mino going down turning right
 
not possible if you push snake left like that
 
what about this?
 
talking about the left side
not the bottom
 
7:09 PM
ah, yeah, left side has contradiction. you are right
so R6C7 & R5C7 are non-snake
 
wait how did those new snake segments show up?
 
B has to use one of the two cells to their right
to be a nonrectangle of size 7 or 8
 
ah makes sense
it's weird that we've spend so much time on this and still haven't put down a single number
just spots that there must be numbers of some sort
and I think now we can return to my earlier rabbit hole - if R5C9 is a non-snake, then it and B can't both be non-rect
 
yeah, guess that's what happens when the snake is such a big part of it
 
7:15 PM
so therefore it is a snake
 
agreed
 
now, I think B can't be an 8 because we can't fit another 8 below it and snake can't cover the bottom
or can we?
yep think we can
drat
here's something (?) if the snake ends at C then B is an 8
and it can't end at R9C9, or a rectangle appears
wild rectangle appears
 
does it?
 
R9C9, not R9C10
 
ahh
whoops
agreed
 
7:30 PM
however, R6C9 cannot be snake - if it is snake, then B would have to be 9 to prevent a rectangle
oh woops nope
oh wait yep, because it must be 9 to prevent it or below part for Rectangl-ing
and it can't be 9, so R6C9 is nonsnake
 
oh yeah actually
if R8C8 is snake, then we either block off C or screw up the right side
and so the snake ends at the dot above C
ooh and it has to go in the staircase pattern because otherwise it blocks off a thing
 
why can't it go through R8C8?
 
breaks the 1 clue in C10
 
oh yep
 
7:36 PM
WE HAVE NUMBERS NOW
 
YEAH
ok i think e can't be snake now
because we can't fit an 8 in to the area above it, or R8C3 becomes a rectangle
 
do you mean it has to be snake?
 
no
 
ah yep I see
 
7:39 PM
so D is snake, which gives a bunch more snake squares
 
yep
uh
uh oh
did we break it
 
we can put a 3 on the bottom
 
no we broke it
 
demonstrate why?
 
7:41 PM
oh no!
aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhh
how far to backtrack?
 
i checked and it looks like my "must be staircase pattern" was wrong
 
could be - then |?
 
right
i thought it would block off R8C9
so that brings us here instead
oh and another 3 goes in that corner just above the lower 7
 
agreed
 
and now e can't be snake because it can't go to the right, and we can't fit a 7+3 on the left if it goes straight up
 
7:47 PM
yes, that makes sense
 
the snake segments on the top can go one of two ways, and this one doesn't work
 
ah yep
 
we can place a 5 now
the L below the A's 7
 
ah yep
and the 7 region at the bottom left must extend upwards on its left side, not the right (because then R6C5 would be trapped)
which places another 5
 
7:51 PM
that finishes the snake off, right?
 
yep, and now there's only one way to dissect the middle area!
 
I can see the way, but I'm having trouble justifying it to myself
 
bottom empty cell must be a 5
(nothing bigger fits, smaller things conflict with 3)
hm wait a sec
yeah ok
if it was a T it'd make a rectangle
so that 5 must be an N pentomino
 
11 squares left
so 5 + 3 + 3
 
nope
can't do 5+3+3
 
7:56 PM
oh no way to fit
 
(i thought it was that for a sec too, then i realized i'd have two 5s touching)
it has to be 8+3
 
but that breaks the 1s... oh wait it doesn't
wow this was a hard puzzle
 
neat conclusion
yeah it's hiding just in the middle there
hard but pretty good - i wonder if there was a less bashy way through the snake placement part
 
mind-bogglingly complex logic there
we did bash a lot, didn't we
 
(yeah connection issues)
that was fun though!
 
7:59 PM
I am giving myself 25% of the credit
 
nah you definitely did more than 25%
 
33%
 
i'd say more than that too
 
< 50%, for sure
 
but no point in figuring out exactly how much each of us did - we solved it!
 
8:00 PM
yay!
this chatroom will stand as a record of That Time Deusovi and Bobble Solved That Crazy Fillomino
 
hooray!
 
I have to leave to do life stuff now
 
alright, see ya! i should probably do other stuff too
 

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