Might make sense for that not to happen when an event is scheduled after the room is unfrozen, but that'd make it possible to keep the room open indefinitely, I suppose.
The format is open, feel free to ask your question(s) unprompted, however please be mindful of whether or not candidates have answered the previous questions so that they don't get behind and start missing questions. Other than that, feel free to jump in.
Candidates, be sure to use the reply feature so that questions and their answers are linked together. (Hover your mouse over the left of the message, click the down arrow, click reply)
It's a good idea to bold your questions (use ** or __ around it) to make them easier to see. When a question is asked, I'll star it - please star it yourself also to help! Please save stars for the questions so that candidates can refer to the star list to make sure they haven't missed a question.
@TimStone will be creating a digest version of the town hall chat after it is completed. This digest will take the form of a question on meta, containing all the questions asked as well as their answers for easier reading.
There's a system message up on the site, so we may get some stragglers joining us if they're still up at this hour.
For candidates among us at the moment, I spy: @J.R., @KitFox, @simchona, and @EvanCarroll.
New users often are not accustomed to the Stack Exchange system, and sometimes struggle to present themselves properly, either in the way they use the site or their attitude. How willing are you to work with "problematic" users, and at what point do you decide that someone isn't worth the effort?
@SonicTheHedgehog She said she couldn't make this hour. But she, as well as the other candidates who can't make it (wow, 5 said they could make it, that's why we went with this hour), are free and able to answer all the questions asked after this event at any time
I'm just going to steal from the old stars list. How would you handle a situation where another mod closed/deleted/etc a question that you feel shouldn't have been?
@TimStone I am very willing to work with new users to help them learn the ropes. If they continue to struggle, I would continue to help. I would only give up on a user if they became abusive and caused an issue on the site for other community members. Then I would involve the other mods for help in dealing with the situation.
@TimStone I've found that there are some "problematic" users like our new troll, who I have taken aside in a private chat (along with Mahnax) in order to try to help them use the site better. This happened after this troll had posted porn, spam, and exact duplicates of his own question under multiple sock puppets. I am willing to go quite far in helping new users, but I stop at the point where they continue to go forward with bad behaviors.
@TimStone I think there's a difference between new users and "problematic" users. Users don't become problematic until after they've been guided, and subsequently spurned the correction. I'd be very patient with new users, but, eventually a line can be crossed.
@GraceNote Reg and I (and others) just had a discussion today over whether to reopen a question about math symbols. It progressed just the way I thought it should. We discussed the pros and cons and we came to an agreement as a community. If it didn't work like that, I would progress to a private chat if I felt strongly about it, then discuss it in mediation with mods in the TL if necessary. But I can't imagine I would ever feel that strongly.
@GraceNote I don't think mods should act alone, nor act without being open to modifying unilateral decisions. I would talk to the other mod and see why they had closed it. There's no reason to get into an open/close/deletion fight.
What is your subjective assessment of how ELU's been progressing in terms of popularity and quality? Do we get more questions than a year ago? Better questions? What about answers? Do we attract new great users? Or is it all Eternal September? What is your recency illusion?
@SonicTheHedgehog I don't see any particular glaring issue with the site. I'd like to encourage our high rep users to continue their participation in the site, especially with closing/deleting questions, and setting guidelines through the Meta site.
@GraceNote I don't expect to agree with the decisions of every moderator. Ideally, we should function as a team with different strengths and weaknesses, not as clones. If a question is closed by another moderator, and I don't agree with that, I might speak with the moderator off-line about it - particularly if this happens frequently - but I'd enter into that conversation ready to learn why I might be mistaken, rather than convinced I'm right.
@TimStone There is no such thing as someone "that is not worth the effort." The platform should modified so that it is self-correcting. All people are worth the effort they're willing to put forward, and shy of that all social problems can be handled with technology.
@RegDwightАΑA In terms of question quality, it seems as if the balance has shifted towards more "English as a second language" questions. However, there have been new users recently who have provided great answers, so I think that the user base is improving in terms of answers, but there is some work to be done on questions. I think more questions should be closed, and those question-askers should be helped to ask better questions if possible
@RegDwightАΑA I've only been on the site for six months, so my personal history is scant. However, I've noticed a lot of questions coming from non-native speakers, but that problem is already being addressed with the new site in Area 51 for Language Learners.
@RegDwightАΑA I think the site has been growing in leaps and bounds, which means we will have more questions, both good and bad, and we will have more users, both good and bad. This means we need more moderators and more diligence so that we make sure that the content of the site represents what we want our community to grow into.
@TimStone So in essence, I'd advocate for welcoming everyone to the site: unban and expire all suspensions. And, find a way to mitigate any social problems through technological tools that don't involve limiting the ability to participate.
@SonicTheHedgehog I would want to empower more high-reputation users to take initiative in cleaning up the site. There are a handful of users who vote to close, or edit questions, but I think that there are more who might be encouraged to take part. I think it's less about changing how the site is run, and more about changing the perception of who "runs" the site
Do you feel like a representative percentage of the community participates in your site's meta? Based on that, how strongly do you think feedback presented on meta should factor into your decision making as a moderator?
@SonicTheHedgehog Vexatious. I have a preference for words that start with v. This one also has an x and ends like salacious. It doesn't get much better than that.
@J.R. So long as they're interested in English I see no reason to differentiate on nebulous qualifiers. I speak English naively, and I'm still learning it! That's why I'm here.
@TimStone I think that there are the same few users who use Meta, but I would encourage more users to do so. However, whatever the representative percentage on Meta, I think feedback is extremely important. I have seen mods pay attention to users on both Meta.SO and Meta.ELU, and I think that's a good approach to take
@TimStone Representative? It's hard to say, but there is a core of users who I respect who put their opinions out on the Meta questions. I would look to Meta first if I were trying to make a decision based on what I thought the community wanted.
A very popular reason for flagging is "very low quality". Everyone seems to have their own notion of what that's supposed to mean; what is yours? How will you handle such flags?
@TimStone No, because meta's on StackExchange all suffer from aura of extreme elitism. If I'm elected moderator, I'll propound a request to Jeff Atwood to make a splash page for EL&U that informs those that our meta is different. It's for the users, and not merely a playground for StackExchange employees.
@RegDwightАΑA In general, I ignore these flags if the question is answered. I let the community handle it through downvoting or ignoring poor answers. If it's not spam or abuse, I'd let it ride.
@RegDwightАΑA Who am I to decide what is "very low quality"? We have algorithms and users that can do that -- no one should have an amplified voice. This isn't chaos, it's discourse: no one needs a megaphone.
@RegDwightАΑA I think some VLQ questions can be expanded on, if the user is willing to do so. My definition of low quality is a question which has little effort, and little effort to change. If there were good answers, like with some NS questions as current mods have done, I would leave it. However, poor questions which detract from the site may need to be removed
@RegDwightАΑA It depends on several factors. Is the question truly of low quality? And can it be improved? If possible, I'd try to salvage the question before deleting or closing it.
@TimStone I prod him to reveal whatever information I think I can get out of him -- keeping in the back of my mind that my allegiance is to the users. When he has revealed all he's willing to reveal, I turn it over to Wikileaks and make it available on a third party site, and welcome all users to review that moderator's actions.
@TimStone I think I kind of alluded to this before - I don't expect to agree with every decision made by other moderators, and I certainly woudn't rock the boat.
@TimStone I would start by talking to them about it. I've seen several good discussions in chat, and so I would definitely feel comfortable bringing it up there and working through it. It can be escalated, if need be, to talk to more mods. However, I think most issues could be solved easily between ELU mods.
@RegDwightАΑA I vote it down, just like any other user. Why would I abuse my status to handle something that, we're told, the platform handles find natively?
@RegDwightАΑA pretty much the same thing, first try to salvage it, if possible. If not possible, then delete it. I might just downvote it, too, if I feel like it's bad, but not so bad that it needs to be removed.
@RegDwightАΑA If the answer doesn't actually answer the question, it gets moved to a comment or deleted. If it's spam or abusive, it gets deleted. Otherwise, what I said before: In general, I ignore these flags if the question is answered. I let the community handle it through downvoting or ignoring poor answers. If it's not spam or abuse, I'd let it ride.
BTW, I think I have answered everyone's questions thus far. If I haven't you're welcome to give me a call personally at 281.901.0011. I'm on call for my people, just don't give the number to Jeff. He makes boring conversation.
Excluding dupes, our number one close reason is "general reference"; a reason most other SE sites don't even have. 3% of all questions — and 35% of closed questions — are closed as gen-ref. Are we too strict? Too lax? Isn't every question too basic if you know the answer, or where to look? Where do you personally draw the line?
@RegDwightАΑA If the issue can be edited, I would do so. I would also downvote. I would reserve deletion for answers which were possibly just "yes" or "no", without anything else to support it.
@RegDwightАΑA Gen ref is dictionary reference to me. Or basic grammar (which should be migrated to ELL). I think it is necessary to go on a case by case basis, and some days I think we are a little trigger happy with the gen ref reason. There are so many other happy reasons for closing, after all.
@RegDwightАΑA If the answer is in a dictionary (phrasal verbs, definitions) that is easily accessible, I would consider it general reference. For most etymology, I think it's hard to say "I'll look in a dictionary" unless you happen to have the OED. I think my bottom line is that General Reference questions are those found in a dictionary, or occasionally in a quick Google search if it seems like no research has been done.
@RegDwightАΑA Closing questions is a horrible idea anyway: if people want to answer questions that are of "general reference" let them. If we get a good answer, the platform has served to move valuable content into the CC-BY-SA domain, that's a great thing in and of itself!
@SonicTheHedgehog I heard Alex Trebek once say, "My favorite book is often the one I'm currently reading." I've read so many good books that I'd have trouble narrowing it down to 5 much less one. I prefer non-fiction for my pleasure reading. I'm currently reading Blue Moon Rising to my teenage daughters (best adventure novel you've probably never heard of). One non-fiction book I've read recently that I very much enjoyed was GO TO by Steve Lohr.
(The story of the math majors, bridge players, engineers, chess wizards, maverick scientists and iconoclasts - the programmers who created the software revolution - that's the subtitle - please forgive the sentence case).
@TimStone So I'm privy to that which goes on in the upper closed echelons of the managing junta, and so I can empower all of the people, democratically, with the powers of a moderator.
@TimStone I've been doing a lot of work recently in rooting out our newest persistent troll. Being a mod would help me do that work better, taking care of the problem more quickly--5 heads are better than one. I can delete the user's questions if they're closed, but I can't deduce whether the user is a new one, or just a sock.
@TimStone We need more mods, and I think I am a good candidate for it. I would like to be able to help keep abuse off the site, help new users get comfy, and set the tone for the community here.
@SonicTheHedgehog Although I'd very much like members to remember what a wonderful and funny person I am, I would rather be known for being judicious and fair.
@RegDwightАΑA If I can find the answer in less than two minutes using standard search tools (Google, dictionary, thesaurus), then my opinion is it's general ref. However, that's a tricky one ~ sometimes what seems like general ref actually has some pretty deep conversation underneath it (good example lately is the 'adj form of primate' question), so I wouldn't want to pull the close trigger prematurely
You receive multiple complaints about an active user, alleging he is waging a personal vendetta against those who've disagreed with him by indiscriminately down-voting their posts, going so far as to create sockpuppet accounts to amplify his voting power. Upon examining the user's history, this suspicion appears plausible. What do you do?
@Shog9 If there is an active user who is making trouble, the first thing I would do is come to him with facts. If there is a plausible explanation for the results, I would listen. However, if it seems like there is still some doubt I would go to the other current mods. No suspension should be a unilateral decision
@Shog9 Wow, great question. I would turn over all of user history immediately to a third party for examination to make sure that wasn't just a frame up by Stack Exchange. But, if all pans out I would request a meeting with the user to discuss his behavior. If, that was not satisfactory I would defer the decision to the community at large, assuming his behavior posed no immediate threat.
@SonicTheHedgehog I would love to see the blog grow. I think that, if it were updated regularly, it could bring in a new audience of users. This could, however, be difficult as it is hard to find new writers. A more attainable goal would be to enrich the current community by encouraging users to come back. Asking one question, then leaving, does not a community make.
There have been repeated complaints that our front page is chock-full of closed questions. Obviously we can't control what kinds of questions we get. Or can we? Do you have any strategy for making the front page more tidy and welcoming?
@Shog9 To be honest, I'd first confer with other mods who have been doing this for a long time. I'd let them train me on standard procedures for handling such abuses in the system. After I felt sufficiently trained, I'd be able to take some of the load off their shoulders.
@RegDwightАΑA Stop electing moderators that close questions, especially for stupid things like being "general references." The more material on EL&U the better, and perhaps if General References are fun, it'll engage more people.
@RegDwightАΑA If we had some method of helping new users find the FAQ before posting questions...but aside from that, I think responding to new users and helping them frame their questions appropriately as soon as possible will help keep questions from being closed (or staying closed).
@RegDwightАΑA I've thought about doing something like that for some time, maybe creating a web page that says something along the lines of "So, your question got closed...." But I wouldn't do anything unilaterally. I might propose something, but it would have to be adopted by others.
@RegDwightАΑA Questions are often closed as General Reference or Exact Duplicates. I think improving the quality of questions by helping users (in chat, in comments, etc) will reduce the number of closed questions. In addition, having an actual list of common questions might help reduce the duplicates. I think there is a misconception that all closed questions are bad, however--they may simply be a less eloquent way of asking a previously asked question.
@RegDwightАΑA I do think some more guidance could be offered, but it's a difficult balance to strike. Too little guidance doesn't convey enough information, but too much is overwhelming, and unlikely to be studied thoroughly by the average new users.
How comfortable are you with using the tools for moderation made available to normal (non-diamond-moderator) users? (such as editing, closing, re-opening, flagging, and brass knuckles)
@Carlo_R. The close reason is "not constructive", which means the question seems like it's asking for a poll or discussion. It was interesting, but it touched on topics that were far too numerous for one question. However, on your point that it's a vendetta: if you truly believed that, I would hope you posted on Meta or flagged it, to bring it to the attention of the acting mods
@Sonic: I've had some many friends from other countries, it would be worth the hardship to talk with them in their mother tongue, more than the handful of words they have taught me.
There are ongoing efforts to create a spin-off site targeted specifically at English language learners. Regardless of the fate of that proposal, is it a step in the right direction at all? Can such a split help make ELU a better place? Or would it mean our demise?
@Shog9 I've been using the normal mod tools quite a bit, especially to delete unanswered questions by trolls. It is simply another part of the community voting system.
@RegDwightАΑA I understand trepidation about the ELL site, but I think it could be very beneficial to EL&U. Moving basic questions there would give some users the answers they need and help maintain a pleasant atmosphere. I think the two sites would complement each other.
@RegDwightАΑA I personally support the proposal, as it will hopefully encourage English learners to ask their questions but also carve out a space for "English enthusiasts" to ask more questions.
@RegDwightАΑA I'm completely in favor of that proposal. I think non-natives should have a place to ask basic questions without fear of retribution or closure.
@SonicTheHedgehog I would continue to hang out in chat daily in order to be available for help. I would spend extra time leaving comments on new questions and answers to help new people feel more welcomed. I would also increase my involvement in Meta, to help make that a more helpful and welcoming complement to our main site.
@SonicTheHedgehog I would continue to be available in chat in case users had questions about how to use the site. Recently, some users have been coming to chat with more basic questions, and I think helping them will cultivate a strong community.
@J.R. And, here I thought as a candidate I was the only one that could answer them, but as user first and foremost I was equally entitled to ask them..
@J.R. There you go, candidates are allowed to ask questions too -- so stop trying to oppress me.
@SonicTheHedgehog I would like to remain an active user. I would like to spend more time explaining why I closed questions, if I closed them - that seems to be something that is perceived as callous sometimes. But, as I've answered in other questions, I don't have an agenda, and I'm not looking to make big changes. I believe the community does a good job policing itself overall, and I'd like to moderate in a delicate fashion.
@EvanCarroll It depends on the "conspiracy". Stack Exchange is a private company, and to some extent they have the rights to govern what goes on within the site. If it were, however, along the lines of the mafia, I would act.
You see a very poor question posted. No evidence of research, vague criteria for what answers should address, some evidence that it was passed through Google Translate at least once prior to posting... Obviously it needs attention; what sort of attention do you give it?
@RegDwightАΑA I knew that the Summer of Love was going on, and I have noticed a change in my own behavior. I've seen more changes on Stack Overflow, seeing as the Summer of Love has been posted on MSO. I've tried to be more patient and understanding, but I haven't noticed a marked change on ELU. I think ELU tends to be pretty helpful, for the most part.
@Shog9 If the user really cannot speak English, I would first direct him to support the proposal for English Language Learners. I would try to edit the question so it were in a more readable form, and leave comments to tease out the true purpose. If the user is unable to understand the comments, then I might close the question as Very Low Quality as it is unlikely to help future users.
I think with regard to the Summer of Love problem, that can be solved with a Reputation Reset, or a Reputation Decay algorithm. That's how Ubuntu solved this anyway. Reputation there is constantly decaying. And, personally I think giving your StackExchange character a lifespan of five years and just resetting his EXP is probably an easy system to implement and quite effective. Just strip him of his reputation and require a name change.
@Cerberus Do you think a Democracy online where every user had the ability to vote on everything by way of referendum could be more successful than a representative democracy that required us to form a hierarchy and classes?
@RegDwightАΑA It doesn't seem like we have a strong enough core group of people to maintain the blog. Good idea, but not feasible right now. So no, the blog has pretty much been abandoned and I don't see any motivation from the membership to get it going again.
@RegDwightАΑA I think that, as a tool to get more people into the site, it might be worth another shot. There are also some questions, like Barrie's, which might be better answered within the blog. However, if the community isn't interested in the idea, I wouldn't push very hard at reviving it.
@EvanCarroll I don't know: populism is a very serious danger. The only experiment in history that I am aware of damaged society in bad ways, in ancient Athens.
@EvanCarroll No. It is difficult to rule by committee, and nearly impossible to rule by simple majority. Of course, if you are talking about answering questions on SE, then sure.
You opt to close a poor question, and at 3AM the next morning get a phone call from the author, who has tracked you down and is now loudly damning your terrorist soul to hades. How do you respond?
@KitFox Who said anything about committee? And, why can't people rule by simple majority? That's who rules on what questions appear on the front page. And, everything on Reddit is decided the way.
@EvanCarroll No--I feel that there are some users who won't know what they're voting on. StackExchange has very low voting restrictions, and I feel that it isn't as hierarchical as one might think
@GraceNote If you don't vote for Evan Carroll, you're going to get another elitist crony who will treat you like a subject to his rule. Vote freedom, vote Evan Carroll!
@EvanCarroll I don't believe in anything, I just want what works. I think some form of democracy is the lesser evil, but it shouldn't become too democratic, or you will get populism. Each of those systems has its problems (and they are serious), but the middle ground seems to perform best based on history.
@SonicTheHedgehog I think I have some 60-odd of those. Not that hard to visit once a day. What you do with your time on the site is a different question entirely.
@Cerberus Right, you know what's better than a system that ensures a majority is happy with a decision? A system that doesn't! Good job thinking that one through.
@GraceNote I am not perfect, but I think that I would be a good candidate for mod because I am willing to listen to others. Even when one user called me a "terrorist", "this person totally insane mind" and said that I wasn't "tollerant [sic]", I took a step back and tried not to react right away. I am open to change--I am willing to look at my own actions in order to improve. In addition, whatever the results, I will remain active on ELU. My first priority is to helping the site, mod or not.
Too little democracy and you will have too much corruption (in the broadest sense). Too much, and you will have instability leading to tyranny. Is it not so?
