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12:09 AM
Wait, Javascript is weird. ++[[]][0] returns 1. If you do something like ++5 it errors (trying to overwrite a constant), same with ++[], but I guess putting it in another array creates a reference to the inner array as an object?
 
0
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Dannyu NDosDecide a C integer literal Objective Given a string, decide whether it is a valid C integer literal. C integer literal A C integer literal consists of: One of: 0 followed by zero or more octal digits (0–7) A nonzero decimal digit followed by zero or more decimal digits (0–9) 0X or 0x, followe...

 
@RedwolfPrograms Probably JS is treating it as the same as ++a[0] syntactically
 
Every time I think I understand how JS handles memory there's some weird new behavior...I'll have to go read the specifications someday
 
Wat, SE is doing maintenance right now?
 
oh, seems like it. it was just working like 10 seconds ago :P
 
12:17 AM
Must've just started
 
usually takes less than an hour...I guess I know which page I'll be frantically reloading for the next little while
 
yeah
well now the page doesn't load, lol. maybe just me
 
Same here, maybe server maintainence?
 
It spitted out a few 500s to me, then I got a maintenance page.
 
The SE twitter page says it should only be a few minutes
 
12:19 AM
interestingly our "under maintenance" page doesn't have a design, despite our site having a design
 
Imagine if maintenance lasted for a day on the last day of an answer chaining challenge
 
for example, music.stackexchange.com has a different symbol to the left
 
@Lyxal Maintenance never lasts longer than a few hours IIRC
 
@Lyxal Like if maintenance was happening just as it was 7/14 days since last answer
 
Maybe it's a CME and it hasn't reached us yet
Actually, what would be the point on the earth farthest from North America, Europe, and Australia? Probably somewhere in Russia?
 
12:22 AM
Africa probably
South Africa maybe
 
@RedwolfPrograms Chicago Mercantile Exchange? ;P
 
site's back in read-only mode though :P
 
TIL there's a read only mode
 
same, TBH
 
Okay, good, now I can go back to idly opening and closing various challenges without actually reading any of them
 
12:25 AM
That doesn't stop me from using the sandbox reviewer apparently
 
Review Stalker doesn't really work :P
 
Man it looks weird having side bar on the side
and it looks weird not being signed in
 
Where else do you have it?
 
i hide it lol
 
12:29 AM
Such an informative visual aid
 
i know
 
Is that comic sans?
 
i highlighted a few other things
@RedwolfPrograms yes
 
I just noticed you sort by Newest
shuddering intensifies
 
Only when im logged out
That's the worst it'll get
probably
 
12:34 AM
> really awesome code golfer
 
I just noticed these freehand red circles have shadows
 
@cairdcoinheringaahing it do be fact tho
 
Not sure how to feel about that, given that I'd prefer people to know me by my challenges, not my answers
 
and it's back :D
 
oh thank frick i'm logged in again
 
12:35 AM
Yay, I can go back to waiting for something to show up in the review queues \o/
 
See the differences?
One has sidebar one doesn't
 
How do you navigate back to the Main Questions page?
 
From where?
 
I click the sign that says "Code Golf & Coding Challenges"
 
shudders even more
 
12:38 AM
I click one of the seven bookmarks I have related to this site
 
@RedwolfPrograms From say a question, or your user page or somewhere that isn't the Main page
 
 
I actually don't use the sidebar that much, but why would anyone get rid of it just to leave it as empty space?
 
Clicking the logo sends you to codegolf.stackexchange.com, clicking > Challenges in the side bar sends you to codegolf.stackexchange.com/questions
 
you can use G H to get back to the home page if you have shortcuts
usually to return to home from a challenge i either click the CGCC thing in the top, use G H, or Ctrl-L, C, enter
 
12:41 AM
Would anyone be interested in a userscript that adds a "random challenge" button to the sidebar?
 
@RedwolfPrograms yes
 
@RedwolfPrograms That's kinda included in the gradscript
 
Oh, is it? I don't use it. I'm still working on a userscript that does that if anyone wants it, though.
 
@RedwolfPrograms I still want it
and I'll pay you $30k in monopoly dollars
 
> A Question of the day widget.
 
12:43 AM
q.o.t.d ≠ random challenge
 
That shows 5 (IIRC) random challenges under different tags each day
 
also, the q.o.t.d widget is only viewable on the help pages
 
But you can't do it over and over again to see a variety of challenges
 
exactly
 
I'm 100% not against it, especially if it chooses between all open, positively-scored questions, just pointing out that something similar already exists
 
12:45 AM
(and you get $30k monopoly dollars if you so choose)
 
I'll make it so you can customize what the requirements are for it to be chosen. It'd also be fun to see random closed negatively voted challenges.
 
@RedwolfPrograms I can also pay in friendliness pellets if you want lol
 
Monopoly money is fine, it's harder to trace
 
okay cool
where do i send it?
or do you want to collect it next time you land on free parking?
 
Bury it between community chest and Baltic Avenue
 
12:48 AM
one problem
I play the UK version
not the US version
hmm
 
IIRC Baltic Avenue is the first brown one?
 
So old kent road then
 
I was wrong, it's a purple one
 
purple = brown
 
It's next to Go
 
12:50 AM
Just hide inside the community chest
2
 
Whoever's star spamming, please stop
 
so you can take it sooner or later, maybe after paying fine multiple times
 
Or you could take a chance and go to the strand
 
Any mods/RO's still around to clear ^ up?
 
Where should the random question button be placed?
I'm thinking left of the Active | Bountied | Hot | ... thing
 
12:57 AM
In the sidebar, underneath the Jobs bit
Or next to Ask Question
 
1:13 AM
I've got to go get dinner, I'll finish the userscript tomorrow morning (or maybe tonight). The button is going here I think:
 
@RedwolfPrograms Can you make it work for the Main Questions page as well as the homepage?
 
@Lyxal Sorry if I'm being dense--so does that mean bytes 54 and 57?
 
@DLosc bytes 6 and 9
 
0x06 and 0x09 (Acknowledgement and Horizontal Tab)
 
Ah, okay. That's what I thought at first, given that 96 would be a super easy program in a lot of languages otherwise.
 
1:24 AM
unary's specification seems to only count 0s, not just code length
so we need to make sure we save lenguage for the inevitable one-byte set that someone gives us lol
jelly's 0x06 and 0x09 are copy and new monadic chain so it wouldn't have helped here, and also i already used it, which maybe i shouldn't have
05AB1E's are foreach and a[-1] so we can't even use it to print 0
 
Yeah, we thought Jelly was bad last time, this time it'd be awful :P
Husk maybe?
 
and ¦
 
I know is decrement right?
Not sure what ¦ is
 
outputs "could not infer valid type for program" :P
 
Ugh. Bloody Haskell, insisting on "valid types" and "making sense"
 
1:30 AM
lol
 
Brachylog's 0x09 is , which always fails. RIP.
 
2:16 AM
I bet there's a way to use Incident for this, but somebody with more smarts and/or patience than me will have to do it. :P I tried for about half an hour to get the language to output something--anything--before deciding that my sanity was more important.
 
We always have Lenguage as an escape pod
 
Clearly it's possible to output stuff in Incident--TIO has a Hello World program. I figured AABBAB should loop and output forever; instead, it promptly halted with no output. And the debug output looks like this. O_o
 
2:34 AM
Hmm, actually, I figured out the debug output, and also the mistake I made in analyzing my test program. Still not seeing how to write a big enough program to output something useful, though. I suspect that maybe 8 would be the easiest number to go for--its binary structure, 111000, might be helpful.
 
If you get to a program that works, there's an inverse lexing construction with two symbols.
 
oh, ais523 made this language. I wonder what they're up to nowadays
 
4:14 AM
Got my userscript working. All I need to do now is add the filtering options.
 
CMC: TIO boasts that it has '260 practical and 420 recreational programming languages, for a total of 681 languages'. Find out the only language which is neither practical nor recreational.
 
@Sisyphus Pyret
 
That was fast, haha.
 
in talk.tryitonline.net, Oct 2 '19 at 17:59, by Dennis
https://tio.run/#pyret
 
Dang, I was halfway through writing some code to index it
 
4:22 AM
can we be sure that's the only one though?
 
in talk.tryitonline.net, Oct 2 '19 at 17:57, by Adám
@Dennis Addition is hard: TIO hosts 260 practical and 420 recreational programming languages, for a total of 681 languages.
 
because we don't know if there are languages that are both practical and recreational :P (I assume that would not make sense)
 
yes
it is the only one
there was a conversation about it and dennis answered with the unclassified language
 
ah, okay
 
Side story: I forgot my headphones were on and connected so I went to turn them on only to hear "power off"
big brain time
Also, according to code golf statistics, only a small percentage of people who see my answers upvote them. So if you enjoying this answer, consider upvoting, it's free, and you can change your mind at any time (given you have ≥2k rep). Enjoy the answer.
2
 
4:30 AM
Should I make sure to smash the comment button so I get notified of when you post new things because of the spam flags?
 
Yes indeed
Just in case you don't know what I'm referring to: youtube.com/watch?v=r9QjVthEfig&ab_channel=BananaAnimations
 
dream is great youtuber 11/10 btw
idk why the commenters hate him so much you'd think he murdered their mother or something
bruh
 
Agreed. The Minecraft speedrunning community is awesome (such as dream on discord calls with other speedrunners wishing them good luck), and his other videos (manhunt, xray-always-on, etc.) are really, really fun to watch
 
4:45 AM
@HyperNeutrino facts right there
@RedwolfPrograms more facts right there
 
Finished my random question userscript. Link
2
 
yay :D
 
i accidentally installed it twice and saw two buttons
and of course the first challenge it gives me is closed lol
10
Q: Non-idempotent Python

OwenWrite a few lines of Python code, X, that does not reference any global variables, such that def method(): X print(a) method() prints 1 but def method(): X X print(a) method() prints 2. So, I hate to be a stickler, but it seems like vars and locals are actually glob...

 
It won't let me sort by closed, unfortunately. Votes are all I can base it on other than post date :/
Also, whoever spammed the starboard, please refrain from doing that in the future. One star per conversation is typically enough, and prevents it from covering up important or useful comments.
 
It's not spam if I'd star them on different days individually
I agreed with the two statements about dream
found your reply to my comment funny
and starred the userscript because it's useful
if you don't want things starred, don't post things I legit want to star
 
4:56 AM
i'm not sure how i feel about these stars because the top half of my starboard is from the last half an hour and my screen's not that small, but it's not like they're meaningless messages or obviously bad stars.
 
i guess it's only a problem because they were too close in time
if they were posted on different days/having more time apart (maybe spread over an hour or so), we wouldn't be discussing it
 
Yeah, I agree. I like seeing lots of stars (lots of good discussions!), just not all at once :p
 
so it's a bit of a dilemma when there's messages I want to star posted consecutively
 
I'd just star one of them, typically people would see the others when they go to look at the starred one
 
Next time then lol
it won't let me unstar now
 
5:02 AM
(Also sorry if my original comment about the stars seemed rude, definitely wasn't intentional but too late to edit :p)
 
for reference, is there some sort of guideline to when to star?
like i know it's free will, but is there some sort of pseudocode of when to star?
 
i think as long as it's mostly reasonable it's fine :p like don't star 18 things at once but i don't think the current starboard is a problem
 
Hey you wanna see what happens when everything is starred in a chatroom? (as in every message)
 
i mean, the only thing starring does is place it on the starboard, so i star something if i think it's interesting/useful/important/funny and want it to go on the display section for other users to see. that's my personal usage
 

 Vyxal

For discussion about Vyxal. Repo: github.com/Vyxal/Vyxal | Org: ...
every message is starred there
 
5:04 AM
Do more starred comments show up on larger screens? I see 5 on my 11" laptop screen
 
10 for me
 
@RedwolfPrograms i see 9 right now
 
and 13"
wait i can't count
9
 
i think mine's 14"? or 15? idk
 
Ah, so it's definitely resolution-dependent. That makes sense
 
5:13 AM
Quick question: is it __ladd__ or __radd__ that implements addition when an object is on the rhs of an expression?
 
I think __ladd__ on the left side is tried first, and then if it fails (raises some exception) then it tries __radd__?
 
 
3 hours later…
8:24 AM
chat's working, right?
@Lyxal
 
@Razetime must have just been my internet
 
cool cool
 
9:08 AM
@cairdcoinheringaahing what's wrong with sorting by newest?
 
9:52 AM
@Neil in fact sorting by new is a highly respected thing to do on reddit
 
10:23 AM
1
Q: Adding tags to bounties?

ArnauldFor a while now, most bounties on our site are rewards for existing answers. As a consequence, it's pretty hard to spot any bounty that would fall into the 'Draw attention' or 'Bonus / Side challenge' categories -- and we have to open each and every entry to figure it out. I've to admit that I pe...

 
0
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Olivier GrégoireThe Knight's Dialer Imagine you place a knight chess piece on a phone dial pad. This chess piece moves in an uppercase "L" shape: two steps horizontally followed by one vertically, or one step horizontally then two vertically: +-+ |1| 2 3 +-+ `-------v | +-+ 4 | 5 |6| ...

 
@Neil Nothing really, I just sort by recently active
 
10:54 AM
0
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

LyxalThe Great Code Golf Heist Alternatively, the most literal cops'n'robbers you'll ever see king-of-the-hillcops-and-robberspython Backstory Sandbox Note: This part will be specific to each thread, so I've provided each version Robbers For the last few years, you and your team of robbers have been p...

 
11:05 AM
One of the best comments I've ever seen on one of my answers was "I didn't realise Flowey golfed"
I mean, why wouldn't I he?
 
11:28 AM
I feel funny talking about geohashing edge cases because globes have no edges...
 
I wanted to solve geohashing, but too confusing
 
11:56 AM
@HyperNeutrino Last I heard, he told all his viewers to vote for the glow squid in the recent mob vote thing, which turned out to be sh*t, so a bunch of people are mad at him because they wanted either yellow cow or ice man instead
 
12:11 PM
0
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

RGSA Portuguese sequence of numbers maths code-golf integer decision-problem Context Consider the following sequence of integers: 2, 10, 12, 16, 17, 18, 19, ... Can you guess the next term? Well, it is 200. What about the next? It is 201... In case it hasn't become obvious to you, this is the sequen...

 
181
Q: Mathematics is fact. Programming is not

Calvin's HobbiesIn mathematics an exclamation mark ! often means factorial and it comes after the argument. In programming an exclamation mark ! often means negation and it comes before the argument. For this challenge we'll only apply these operations to zero and one. Factorial 0! = 1 1! = 1 Negation !0 = 1 !1...

33
Q: Find the syncopation

DoorknobGiven an input of a string consisting entirely of qs representing quarter notes and es representing eighth notes, output the indices of the quarter notes that are syncopated. Syncopation is complex, but for the purposes of this challenge, our definition of "syncopated" will be very simple: a qua...

 
12:46 PM
The four most feared words in IT: "ON ERROR RESUME NEXT"
4
 
There's a handy one-character shortcut for it in PHP
 
1:14 PM
> We are currently offline for maintenance
Again?
 
@cairdcoinheringaahing oh, lol. well rip
for me the site just doesn't load lol. guess it's just the maintenance
 
 
1 hour later…
2:19 PM
@HyperNeutrino are you avialable?
 
@Razetime hi, yes I am
 
@Razetime I.e. can you be made into a thick mixture of 13 vegetables?
2
 
oh wait you were making a joke about my edit
lol i thought you were actually asking if i could do smth lol
 
@HyperNeutrino haha gottem
@Adám I ate that last week
Uh-vee-yull
 
So you're considering eating our newly elected mod‽
 
2:28 PM
o_O
 
@Adám contemplating it
I'm more worried about my exam tomorrow, really
sure does ruin one's appetite
 
 
1 hour later…
3:45 PM
3
Q: Looks prime to me!

Sara JFiguring out whether a given number is prime, while not very complicated, is kind of hard. But making a guess doesn't need to be. Seeing whether a number is a multiple of 2 or 5 is easy - you can just look at the last digit. Multiples of 3 isn't much harder, just add up the digits and see if you ...

 
Is there any challenge to "guess" which numbers fall into some set (like fibonacci or prime), and score based on a combination of code length and accuracy?
 
would be the winning condition
But you'd have to choose the sets well, otherwise is_prime builtins and similar would give a score of 100% accuracy
 
More like a code challenge, since I'd make code length affect the score (ideally it'd be a sequence that's really hard to golf)
 
Most challenges like that have the accuracy as some kinda multiplier to code length, so the problem is that as soon as someone gets 100% accuracy, all they have to do is choose the golfiest language and they're unbeatable
 
What about scoring based on something like (bytes) * (1 + 1 / (accuracy))? That would be triple score for 50%, regular byte count for 100%, but something like 90% would still get close enough to regular byte count to be competitive sometimes
 
3:54 PM
this reminds me of that, though it isn't scored on accuracy, it requires 100% accuracy, so I think the top answers try to guess and then hard-code the cases that fall through the filter.
 
That still has the issue that as soon as someone gets 100%, they just switch to a golfing language and no one can come close
 
But couldn't a 90% answer still be switched to a golfing language and potentially be even smaller? An 11% increase in score isn't insanely hard to work around if there's a clever way to mostly golf it
 
You'd have to choose the sets very well to get the right balance
 
What's the best page to link new users to who don't realize this is a competitive golfing site? The tour, or some sort of meta post?
 
4:10 PM
@RedwolfPrograms @Razetime and @cairdcoinheringaahing I just thought I would let you know that if you flag a post as "Not an answer" it doesn't actually go to the moderators it goes to the low quality post queue. If you want it to go to a moderator you should flag it with a custom flag explaining the issue. I generally think that with stuff that is bordering on spam this is the better option, but do what you want I guess. Going to the queues is better than not being flagged at all.
 
Oh, I didn't realize that. I'll make sure to mod flag those in the future.
 
@WheatWizard Ah, I thought it did, but we were discussing this yesterday and I couldn't find anything in the FAQ on what happened with NAA flags. I'll make sure to remember that when dealing with NAA posts, thanks!
 
Oh you are right, you didn't flag it as naa. Maybe vlq also works the same way? Or maybe it got overridden by the naa? If you really want it to go to the moderators custom message is best, plus it makes it easier for us in general.
But again, do whatever, I'm just letting you know how you can use the tools not saying you should use them any way.
 
I flagged one as VLQ and another as NAA IIRC
 
Yep.
 
4:26 PM
@WheatWizard sure, will do next time.
 
 
2 hours later…
6:51 PM
@Razetime Is it possible for you to correct this answer, rather than delete it? If it stays deleted, the next two answers in the chain will have to be deleted as well
Man, I forgot how stressful running an challenge can be when something goes wrong :/
 
Sounds like it. What happened? (I saw at one point, there were two answers marked 2., did that get fixed?)
 
Yeah, that's fine. Razetime's answer ^ is #12, which means that if it stays deleted, #13 and #14 will have to be deleted as well and the chain resets to #12
 
@RedwolfPrograms That was just a timing issue; I got ninjaed.
 
I think at one point during my last one (the OEIS one) we were about 150 answers in and someone pointed out that answer ~100 was invalid, at which point I went "screw it, just leave it"
 
Oh wow...and I though managing a KoTH was tough
 
 
2 hours later…
8:41 PM
I always want to try brute-forcing codegolf code.
I've brutally golfed a digits-of-pi-in-powershell answer to get ~220 chars, and primo-ppcg has /quartered/ it at 57. It's unthinkable, you can't get bignums or good integer division or base conversion or fast loops with that little code, surely
how hard can it possibly be to try every 57 character valid powershell program
and that applies even moreso to APL and J answers for things at 10-15 characters
but given how big the search space is, easily 50^57 is it a wonder that (some) humans can hone in on code that works in such a short time?
 
primo-ppcg is insane
code.golf is so hard
 
every Pi-spigot on rosettacode.org/wiki/Pi is enormous except J, and that's because J has it as a builtin. Most of them seem to be ports of each other's Rabinowitz spigot or Machin(?)'s algorithm.
@rak1507 utterly.
 
ngn
@TessellatingHeckler the problem there is not of technical nature
 
9:03 PM
How the hell someone can get 36 bytes for the fibonacci sequence in python is beyond me
It's the small and easy things that are most impressive to me
 
It uses the somewhat new :=
 
Oh hi there lol
I was wondering about that
 
9:24 PM
Just noticed primo-ppcg has 1337 1st places
 
@rak1507 similar in powershell; I have 32 byte Fibonacci and primo has 28
 
9:36 PM
43 in Python, no walrus; hmm
 
Just got #15th in this code.golf/abundant-numbers#python with a bit of a weird method, I wonder if that's how other people did it
 
can a approved trusted communities member check it? it works the same
 
If you leave a comment, the answer author should edit it in. Typically we don't golf with suggested edits.
 
oh
i deleted comment it takes space just code better, no comments. thanks!
 
No, wait, the correct thing to do is leave a comment.
 
9:49 PM
@榨菜 IF you have a golf, leave a comment underneath the answer (or leave it here and one of us will comment) so that the answerer can edit that it
 
ok. but i comment after and then someone approve, so i removed comment
next time i do the right thing, ok. thank you
 
@榨菜 No, the answer hasn't been edited, and we reject edits that try to golf code as they should be comments
 
1 more Japt solution to go 'til 1000 :D Feel the need to do something (mildly) epic to get me over the line ...
 
@Shaggy Answer QFT with Japt :P
 
@cairdcoinheringaahing QFT?
 
9:51 PM
The Tetris in Game of Life question
Only question to reach 1000 upvotes on the site
@榨菜 I've left a comment on the answer telling the answerer the golf you suggested
 
@cairdcoinheringaahing Now, that would be an achievement! And one I'd wager to be impossible!
 
@Shaggy Well, given the language is restricted to GoL, you'd probably have to make a Japt interpreter in GoL, then write Tetris in Japt to "technically be a Japt answer" :P
 
Nonsense, all you have to do is make a GoL tetris program shaped like the source code of a Japt tetris program
 
@cairdcoinheringaahing thanks :)
 
Interesting that the suggested edit by 榨菜 hasn't shown up in the review queues for me
 
9:55 PM
Ye're making my (drunk) brain itch!
 
@榨菜 No problem, be sure to hang around or check out our main questions page
 
It already showed up for me in the queues
 
@Shaggy "Drunk? It's only Tuesday!" he says, sipping a beer
@RedwolfPrograms Yeah, I can see that in the review history. When I refresh my review queues page, or check the review queues dropdown for the toolbar, it says that there's nothing to review (yet the edit is still pending). Weird
 
@cairdcoinheringaahing It's only "only Tuesday" if you stop. If you don't, it's still Friday 3 weeks ago!
 
I do but it's difficult
 
9:57 PM
A solid argument :P
@榨菜 As I'm sure we can all tell you, it always starts that way, but the more you golf, the better you get :)
 
@rak1507 I have a 51 there (powershell) and primo has a 48. my method does not translate well into Python; is there a shorter loop than for i in range(foo):?
 
exec('code'*n) could work
I'm not very good at golf so I don't know
my method uses a while loop
 
that's how I got the 43 Fib one
 
That's how I got my fib one too
 
Seeing as ETH hasn't been seen in nearly 2 years, I've half a mind to celebrate by creating a new JS-based golfing lang. The other half of my mind, though, knows feck all about language design!
 
9:59 PM
Oh damn, does it not store your answers?
That's frustrating
 
@Shaggy Related, but you could post a Japt-themed challenge in celebration, like what happened for BrainFlak's birthday
 
Never mind it did
Anyone have any clever ideas for golfing the number 1777714764738014095238721436
 
How about reverse Japt? Javascript, but every tiny thing requires hundreds of bytes, but is extremely readable by absolutely everyone.
 
@cairdcoinheringaahing Could do. There were a few ideas I was toying with when Japt was LoTM.
 
lol; I raised a github issue about it not saving my answers, turned out i was logged out and didn't notice
 
10:02 PM
iCanHardlyTellIfThisIsIdentityFunctionButItReallyIs = x => x;?
 
@RedwolfPrograms That sounds like Rockstar to me! :D
 
@rak1507 clever ideas, no, but it is shorter in hex
1777714764738014095238721436
0x5be7dbe7fda5b69db9f6f9c
if you have large hex literals available
 
20th!
Thanks
7th in terms of bytes
 
10:17 PM
63 in ruby also
 
on which hole?
 
abundant numbers
 
38 messages moved from The APL Orchard
 
10:41 PM
@rak1507 now a 38 Python Fib
 
nice
I imagine you have exactly the same thing as me
 
maybe; but mine has nowhere I can see to use := and save 2 bytes
 
yeah same here
oh well
 
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