TRPG General Chat

BESW

12:01 AM

4e, though? If you had an attack power, it was an attack. An attack power would be labelled "[class] Attack [level]."

Rubiksmoose

@MikeQ Ah yes grappling is still a sticking point with 5e. Don't remind me about PF grappling though [shudder]

@BESW That sounds wonderful lol

MikeQ

Miraculously, paizo had the sense to copy that design into PF2. The Strike action has the Attack trait. Spells with spell attacks have the Attack trait. Etc. And there are mechanics that interact with "thing with the Attack trait". Clears up a lot of ambiguity.

(Combat and other mechanical resolutions still take forever though)

Rubiksmoose

@MikeQ Nice!

MikeQ

And even at low levels, things get bogged down when everyone keeps asking if something has such-and-such trait

BESW

"Ranger Attack 1" means it's a Ranger-class power, it counts as an Attack for all things that care, and it's something you can pick at level 1 or higher (if you have access to Ranger powers).

Compare:

Miniman

12:10 AM

@BESW Sorry, I only understand defender powers XD

BESW

The errata'd Infernal Wrath would be a perfect example of a not-an-attack power which might otherwise be construed as an attack but I'm struggling to find a block to screenshot.

MikeQ

Try describing it in the form of a Haiku

Miniman

Thanks! Interesting to see 2 stats on one power - I guess Cha is the Paladin primary?

BESW

Paladins choose either of two stats (Str or Cha in this case) as their primary depending on the type of play they want to focus on (damage or defense, respectively).

This is a power that deals damage to an opponent, but is not an attack because it is a Tiefling Racial Power.

linksassin

Achievement for the day. After 3 or 4 failures in the 70-80 day mark. I finally picked up my Fanatic Badge.

BESW

12:22 AM

I can't find a block for Magic Missile post-errata, but it's the exact opposite: an Attack power that doesn't roll an attack. But it counts as an Attack because it's Wizard Attack 1.

> Magic Missile Wizard Attack 1
You launch a silvery bolt of force at an enemy.
At-Will - Arcane, Force, Implement
Standard Action Ranged 20
Target: One creature
Effect: 2 + Intelligence modifier force damage.
Level 11: 3 + Intelligence modifier force damage.
Level 21: 5 + Intelligence modifier force damage.
Special: If the implement used with this power has an
enhancement bonus, add that bonus to the damage. In
addition, you can use this power as a ranged basic attack.

V2Blast

@linksassin Congrats :P

linksassin

@BardicWizard The second point of that isn't particularly obvious. I would consider something like "He asked me to do some tasks which I find distasteful, but at this stage as necessary so that I can earn his trust."

BESW

Oh, and some effects and feats only triggered on attack rolls rather than attacks, so they'd trigger off Shielding Smite but not off Magic Missile.

But it was always very clear because it was right there in the text.

Rubiksmoose

@linksassin woohoo!

AncientSwordRage

12:56 AM

Every day is 4E reminiscing day

BESW

I mean, I could bring up all the amazing indie games that dodge these problems entirely, but there's a lot less for the D&D players in the chat to glean for their own games.

Bardic Wizard

1:22 AM

@linksassin well nobody apparently read it other than the only player actually trying to further the story anyways, and she had her suspicions before this (granted they are completely wrong, but players do that)

I will add that though

Or something similar

AncientSwordRage

@BESW that's a shame, but also quite true

linksassin

@BardicWizard That's a shame. Good on you for making handouts though.

BESW

Clearly labeling features as attacks is feasibly within the scope of a D&D 5e homebrew. Switching to defining attacks based on intended outcomes rather than attempted actions (like Fate does), less so.

AncientSwordRage

@BESW mouse guard also solve this problem for conflicts

You have a disposition instead of HP, and you have a goal in the conflict

Goal: I want to make a great sandwich

Your enemies goal: get Ancient Sword Rage to get back to work

And then you play off against each others disposition so that they you achieve your goal

Bardic Wizard

@linksassin I’m seriously proud of the story and how much I have made for this

Granted, it’s lost on them and I throw it out anyways, but I like doing it.

BESW

1:31 AM

That's a mood from my early D&D days.

linksassin

@BardicWizard I'm right there with you. I spent my weekend writing lore and drawing maps of a region the players won't even go to just because there was a whole in the map.

I wrote 2 pages of lore for a minor local goddess because I was trying to figure out what the Shrine in a town that they will spend 1 day in was called.

AncientSwordRage

@BESW such a mood

BESW

Aug 25 '13 at 16:50, by BESW

I started my first game with great stacks of notes, and threw out most of it half an hour in.

In later campaigns I'd do a lot of "big picture" sketching of the world, and then fill parts in when the party got near, so I could customize them to the campaign's needs.

Like "there's a pirate city in the style of Jean Lafitte's Barataria over there [gestures vaugely]" and then when the party wants to know more I can wing it based on that description and then flesh it out between sessions before they get there.

Hot RPG Questions

1:52 AM

3

Q: What effect would Knock have on a lock with multiple states?

A puzzle-based dungeon features a special lock. The first part of the dungeon involves collecting the three parts to the key, which can be assembled in six (3!) arrangements. Each arrangement, when inserted into the lock, opens a different path, each of which leads to other dungeon encounters tha...

linksassin

Sounds pretty much like what I go through. But sometimes I catch myself going down the rabbithole.

Adeptus

My wife writes mostly alternate history (steampunk etc), and spends ages researching details (the street layout of late 19th century London, the smell/colour of gunpowder smoke, what specific buildings in Adelaide looked like in 1920, etc). She can spend days on something that ends up being a sentence or two in the book. But some readers have complimented her on how "real" the setting feels, so I guess it pays off?

linksassin

One of my players has requested a complete world map. And I want to give it to them but I have a stupid high standard for the maps I make and I don't want to be ret-conning it so I'm fleshing out details all over the world that they probably won't ever see.

BESW

I figure if a map doesn't raise more questions than it answers, I haven't done it right.

3

linksassin

@Adeptus My favourite type of author. Kudos to her.

BESW

1:53 AM

linksassin

@BESW Making the map certainly does, but I tend to answer them myself in the process of making the map. I'll get distracted writing the lore for a town to figure out what the icon should look like.

Adeptus

@BESW "Slurpy Marshes"

BESW

@Adeptus Iz troo!

AncientSwordRage

@Adeptus sounds awesome, would definitely but get books based on that

BESW

That's something I love about the Peter Grant novels, their ability to paint a picture of a place's history and character through its architecture.

nitsua60

2:43 AM

@V2Blast Ouch. Tough to wrangle an infinite polynomial expansion when you're awake... =)

nitsua60

3:51 AM

d4

3

d4

1

4:19 AM

@nitsua60 wait polynomials can be infinite? Whyyyyyyyyy????? I just managed to wrap my head around infinite sums and now everything is infinite whyyyyy oh Tiamat it’s all numbers and recursion and oh my we’re all gonna die aaahhh

Also, since I’m thinking about math, would anyone here ever play a game that needs a graphing calculator (I have a TI-84 Plus, so with about that many functions) to play?

Adeptus

4:36 AM

@AncientSwordRage If you're interested, here's her site (and there goes some of my anonymity/pseudonymity)

BESW

6:02 AM

@BardicWizard I've definitely known people who would jump on that.

V2Blast

6:41 AM

@BardicWizard I mean, I know "video games" exist(ed) for graphing calculators. I assume this is an RPG?

MikeQ

Dungeons & Derivatives

Carcer

7:09 AM

@MikeQ the Graph Master adjudicates

AncientSwordRage

8:00 AM

@Adeptus twilight 2020 thanks!

@BardicWizard a version of en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twilight:_2000 uses graphs

Hot RPG Questions

9:41 AM

3

Q: How can a player character make a working magical prosthesis?

For the purpose of this question, a PC spellcaster wants to make say, a prosthetic hand (for himself or someone else). What would be required to ensure the prosthesis would both respond to the recipient's thoughts and move the way an original extremity would, without the recipient worrying that e...

dnd-5e magic crafting

BESW

@HotRPGQuestions [grumbles about the politics of fantasy prosthesis]

AncientSwordRage

@BESW gets 10 foot poll ready

it also makes me think of the woman with dwarfism, who elected to get bone lengthening surgery, or deaf people who are able to correct their children's hearing at a young age but do/don't

when physical ability blends with culture things can get messy

"I want to play in Shadowrun’s setting, but definitely not Shadowrun" — System Alternatives

BESW

It's a very very personal thing, and I'd never tell a disabled person how to interact with it. But abled people choosing to make their fantasy world a place where magic makes accessibility somehow harder than it is in reality, is Quite A Choice. The discussion around Sara Thompson's totally non-magical D&D wheelchair that simply justifies a disabled character doing the same things abled characters do, is Very R🐘.

AncientSwordRage

yeah, it's very good too

I've been thinking about Stating up a Ravnican centaur with a wheelchair holding up the back legs, but I need to reason my way around the fact that in game lore they have crazy good magical medicine

BESW

(Again I come back to Sundown, a science fantasy setting where body modification is an available art, and yet disability is never an obstacle to accessibility.)

@AncientSwordRage I don't see how that's an issue at all! Sundown is all about people who choose not to typicalize their bodies despite ready access to the means to do so.

AncientSwordRage

9:56 AM

@BESW I remember you mentioning sundown as an ownvoices thing

BESW

The idea that the Star Trek future has eliminated disability is one of the creepiest dystopian elements of the whole franchise.

AncientSwordRage

@BESW oh it can be done, I've not just given it much thought on how to mesh the character with the setting, because the setting is not immediately compatible

@BESW and yet everyone freaks out about Bashir

And Warf can still break his back

BESW

Jul 28 at 21:01, by BESW

Sundown, for example, is a game about people who have chosen to change their bodies to better reflect themselves--or have chosen to not change their bodies despite pressures to change themselves--and been kicked to the edges of the dominant society as a result. Its central thesis is that being rejected by a society which would only accept you if you lie about yourself, is an empowering opportunity rather than a tragedy.

AncientSwordRage

STAR TREK YOU CAN'T HAVE IT BOTH WAYS!

I'll figure it out somehow

BESW

Can't you just have a centaur who uses his society's excellent medicine to access the very best prosthetics?

Does it need to be any more complicated than that?

AncientSwordRage

10:05 AM

@BESW The medicine is all 'wet', and no prosthesis because of that

it's hard to explain

They use 'cytoplasts' to regrow limbs

but at one point all the cytoplasts left the host body and formed into a giant ooze monster

which is a good reason not to go for it

BESW

Sounds like somebody might want to stick with eyeglasses because they're worried about the risks of lasik.

AncientSwordRage

Like I said I'd figure something out (which is not to say it's complicated)

Project Kraj

> It was, technically speaking, an enormous body made of cytoplasts,[2] with a huge neuroboretum cluster for its brain. Kraj was activated by Vig and Svogthir with the help of dragon cerebral fluid from one of the Cauldron dragons. However, mere seconds after Kraj's activation, Vig was killed by Agrus Kos, whose spirit resided in the body of Savra (that was used by Svogthir). Without a superior intelligence to guide it, Kraj went on blind, instinct-driven rampage into the city.

I really like one of the new characters from Ikoria:

vicky_molokh- unsilence Monica

10:21 AM

@AncientSwordRage Sure it can. Star Trek is the probably best example of a setting that embraced safetech. Which means that it's very big on humanity and humanism (thus embracing bringing everyone to the best of human potential), but fearful of H+ attitudes (thus against anyone trying to surpass it by inhuman means). Safetech is not a path I embrace (I'm more of an opt-in H+ fan, at least OOC), but it's not some sort of fringe path as far as approaches to tech go.

AncientSwordRage

H+? Safetech?

vicky_molokh- unsilence Monica

@AncientSwordRage H+: transhumanism, embracing of human augmentation and of disruptive technologies like nanotech, ubiquitous computing, artificial intelligence, uploading &c.

AncientSwordRage

@vicky_molokh-unsilenceMonica oh right, I've not heard transhumanism described that way

vicky_molokh- unsilence Monica

@AncientSwordRage Safe-tech: physics and engineering have advanced dramatically, but developments that alter the way people think, modify the human body or brain, drastically extend lifespan, or threaten to replace humans with machines are retarded or suppressed. This may be due to ethical qualms, an accident of history, or a taboo resulting from past wars or disasters.

AncientSwordRage

Ahh ok

Ravnica has Crab-Sharks, Elf-Oozes and Jelly-Fish Hydra's, as well as regularly grafting Crab Claws onto people. I guess that counts as transhumanism?

It's all done under the guise of improving/perfecting rather than self-expression though

vicky_molokh- unsilence Monica

10:28 AM

@AncientSwordRage In a way. It's a category that (a) is sometimes represented in low-tech settings through alternative, at least if following the more general criteria of the definition and (b) people will often engage in No True Scotsmanning about it.

AncientSwordRage

gotcha

vicky_molokh- unsilence Monica

@AncientSwordRage Guise? You mean people are actually dishonest when they claim they seek improvement, because they only actually seek self-expression and not improvement? Or am I misunderstanding?

AncientSwordRage

I mean that they probably aren't 'perfecting' the people who are experimented on, just furthering the ideas of the guild master

self-expression being my understanding of what happens in sundown

vicky_molokh- unsilence Monica

@AncientSwordRage I'm missing context. This looks like hinting at non-opt-in stuff for the modfyees, but I'm not sure. Motivations for that kind of stuff can of course vary and I think the dichotomy becomes even less applicable than normally.

AncientSwordRage

@vicky_molokh-unsilenceMonica I think it's non-opt in

It's part of the 'Guardian Project', and I think they conscript guild members

at the very least if I said "I'm going to improve you" and you woke up with crab claws and manta wings you'd at least be surprised, if not upset I didn't just fix you're vision etc

and by non-opt in I think you don't get to pick your 'enhancement'

Bardic Wizard

1:03 PM

@BESW yeah... not my players. I like math. They are only taking it cause otherwise they can’t graduate

@V2Blast yeah. It was sort of a joke about the complexity of RPGs but I’d actually play one if there was something that complex

BESW

When I did problems on the board in pre-calc my teacher was fond of saying "There are many ways to kill the cat, and Mr. BESW's cat has died a slow and painful death."

Bardic Wizard

@AncientSwordRage ooh.

BESW

In college I took the classes unofficially called Remedial Math for Art Majors, which was accurate.

Bardic Wizard

@BESW that’s tough. I managed to mess up a hw problem so bad this week that when it was returned my teacher just told me to scrap the problem and try again. So I know how you feel, at least a bit.

BESW

I love math, but the numbers don't work for me.

I'd explain the concepts so that other people would pass the tests, but then I'd confuse 2+3 with 2x3 and all my understanding couldn't help me get the right answer.

Bardic Wizard

1:09 PM

:-( I’m sorry about that

BESW

Eh, I'm mostly at peace with it except for the part where I'm a self-employed person who has to do his own accounting.

and I do love how math turns into philosophy when you poke it with a stick.

Bardic Wizard

I guess that’s why calculators exist

AncientSwordRage

@BESW that bit is fun

@BESW We had Maths for Scientists

which was also accurate

Physics is just maths and lying

5

We also has Advanced Quantum Mechanics, where the exam results were bimodal. All the Maths With Physics students averaged much higher, as they already understood matrices and hermitian doo-dads

Rubiksmoose

1:25 PM

In my school Physics majors had to take the Math major math classes. It was...rough.

Boundary Value Problems for example.

trogdor

1:44 PM

They had a different major but their minimum limit was all of another majors classes?

That just seems completely rude

I know physics takes plenty of math

But sheesh

AncientSwordRage

@Rubiksmoose whats is this whole 'major' 'minor' thing? It sounds key to understanding american university courses

@Rubiksmoose Dirichlet and Neuman doo-dads?

@Rubiksmoose I will accept it may not be as black and white as that

Rubiksmoose

@AncientSwordRage Hmmm now I'm intrigued because I hadn't thought there was other nomenclature for it! "Major" is your primary chosen academic path for example I was a Physics major which meant I was taking the physics curriculum and would end up with a Bachelor's of Science degree. Minor is a secondary path added onto that and could be related to major or not. I considered a Pre-law minor, but ended up not doing it.

Minors get noted on your degree I think?

trogdor

And minors aren't a requirement

As I understand it

Rubiksmoose

^

trogdor

But to have one you need a major

Really you need a major going into it or you are wasting your time

Bardic Wizard

1:51 PM

And you can also double major to go into more than one field I think (I’m not in college yet but my mom did a history and religion double major)

Rubiksmoose

Many people start as undecided and work through their prereqs and general coursework but yeah the sooner you decide on a major generally the better for courseload.

trogdor

Yeah

AncientSwordRage

@Rubiksmoose Ah, in the UK we don't make a distinction at all

you just have a degree with courses

trogdor

You can take as many majors as you want

Rubiksmoose

@BardicWizard Good point! At my school the most common double major was Mechanical Engineering and Electrical Engineering (ME/EE).

trogdor

1:53 PM

It really depends how much work and time you have on you XD

AncientSwordRage

if you want to know if someone took extra Computing Classes or extra Language Classes you check their transcript

trogdor

I absolutely hated it and that's all I have left to say on the matter

XD

AncientSwordRage

I guess the closest I could get to describing my degree was trying to Major Physics with a minor in Computing, but because of how the course was structured it ended up being double majors. So I switched to Major physics with a minor in computing, which was actually a minor in computing

KorvinStarmast

@BESW claps yeah; and somewhere on the map one should probably write "here be dragons" with a vague arrow pointing in a direction off of the edge of the map.

AncientSwordRage

@KorvinStarmast needs more question marks, or even an interrobang

vicky_molokh- unsilence Monica

2:00 PM

@Rubiksmoose It's interesting that in USA people seem to assemble the pairs in an unrelated manner. Around here, you usually pick your path and the list of lectures and seminars (and practicals, in the appropriate subjects) is decided by the decanate and the cathedral of the specialty you signed up for. (E.g. I signed up for teaching and track & field in my first four years, and the decanate handed down timetables for all cathedrals listing when to take what lessons and in what numbers.)

KorvinStarmast

@AncientSwordRage Sounds like Kafka at work there ...

AncientSwordRage

@KorvinStarmast none of the guilds are explicitly evil, but definitely none are good either

Ok, maybe the Lawful Good ones are evil

KorvinStarmast

@vicky_molokh-unsilenceMonica what does "cathedral" mean in that sentence? I suspect it isn't a religious buliding.

@Rubiksmoose Also known as the masochism major, right? :)

vicky_molokh- unsilence Monica

@KorvinStarmast A unit of educational organisation within a university, with a chief (usually a professor), a list of teachers (some of them professors or candidates, and some aspirants, some even not that), usually a building, and definitely some amount of cabinets to run lectures and seminars in. Big cathedrals can probably consist of multiple departments, I think.

KorvinStarmast

@vicky_molokh-unsilenceMonica Got it, thanks.

@vicky_molokh-unsilenceMonica Cabinets seem to be what I'd call a classroom ...

Or a seminar room.

vicky_molokh- unsilence Monica

2:07 PM

@KorvinStarmast Cabinets (more typical for seminars) or halls (more common usage for lectures) is another common term here. 'Classroom' looks very . . . schoolish, rather than university-ish.

Though, for example, IIRC, where I studied the cathedral of olympic and professional sports (which was de facto more of a history-and-some-theory bunch) had seminar cabinets but no proper lecture halls.

It's interesting how education varies by region and jurisdiction.

I recall reading GURPS Illuminati University and watching some university-themed films like Real Genius, and the organisation of everything looked so different from anything I know.

KorvinStarmast

@vicky_molokh-unsilenceMonica Yes, Halls is used here for some teaching environments.

Rubiksmoose

2:42 PM

@KorvinStarmast they actually had a much less mental-health-friendly name for it XD

But essentially yes :)

KorvinStarmast

3:06 PM

@Rubiksmoose aka "Glutton for Punishment" major. (Had a guy who worked for me a few years ago who had Major in ME and was working on PHD in EE when he finally got tired of having no money and no life. He bailed on the PhD. He got married ... and he got a better offer from somewhere else that paid a lot better so we lost him but he's doing well).

Rubiksmoose

Glad to hear he's doing well and chose the important things to spend time on :)

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