TRPG General Chat

5:01 PM

@NautArch are some of the solutions demonstrably better and more correct than the others?

I believe that we get some questions that are "discussion prompts" but I do think that voters can still identify a 'best' answer

NautArch

@doppelgreener I'd say no to that.

Mark Wells

@doppelgreener some of them are demonstrably worse, so I'd say yes

KorvinStarmast

It is a situation more than one DM over the years has had ...

NautArch

@MarkWells I'd agree with that, though :)

KorvinStarmast

5:02 PM

... so here is where 'experts' can be of assistance.

NautArch

so maybe i do agree

but some of the highest voted ones also disgregarded that it wasn't about money

so.../shrug

KorvinStarmast

@NautArch yeah, but that's the old "fastest gun in the west" syndrome at work also ...

doppelgreener

then it seems like a question to which there are a lot of potential answers, but some answers are better, more complete, or more correct than others, meaning we can meaningfully differentiate them with voting.

and not all answers are inherently equally valid

NautArch

In the past, questions that drew a lot of idea generation without clear support got closed because of the answers drawn.

And this now is up to 11 answers

vicky_molokh- unsilence Monica

@Rubiksmoose Because an average PC moves at a maximum speed of 30 feet per minute?

doppelgreener

5:04 PM

that we're getting a bunch of answers is not itself any particular failure of the system or the question. we can handle a lot.

KorvinStarmast

On the other hand, I have read through the question again, and I think it's too broad. Needs liposuction big time. @NautArch It is OK to have a lot of answers: the stack stacks them by vote count, right?

NautArch

Yes, when the answers are all supported and good.

KorvinStarmast

@vicky_molokh-unsilenceMonica nice one. 😆

NautArch

But if the question is drawing lots of bad answers, having a couple good ones doesn't necessarily save it.

KorvinStarmast

@NautArch If they aren't supported by experience, then maybe we need to poke a few people?

NautArch

5:05 PM

And even odder that the discussion in chat about the goals of the question never made it into the question itself.

Rubiksmoose

@vicky_molokh-unsilenceMonica XD

NautArch

@KorvinStarmast I've given up that crusade.

KorvinStarmast

There is no longer a Too Broad category,

Mark Wells

@NautArch I think the chat went off in a weird direction that may not have reflected OP's actual goals

KorvinStarmast

@NautArch OK

NautArch

5:05 PM

@MarkWells OP was part of it, though.

We were trying to understand their goals and they participated but never changed the quesiton.

KorvinStarmast

Maybe close it as "needs focus"

OK, I'll drop in a 'needs focus' vote and if nobody agrees, no harm done.

NautArch

That's why I brought it up here first :)

But if y'all disagree, that's totally fine, too.

KorvinStarmast

I note that zibboz nails it in his comment ...

Rubiksmoose

20

Q: Etymology of 'crawl' in 'dungeon crawl'

Does someone have a pointer to the origin of 'crawl' in 'dungeon crawl'? I always suspected it has to do with the cautious pace, but I wanted to know if there was a definitive answer on this.

hah!

doppelgreener

wow. dungeon crawling being likened to pub crawling puts it in a whole new light

MikeQ

5:17 PM

@NautArch The latter half of Tomb of Annihilation seems to involve one big dungeon crawl

NautArch

@doppelgreener it is nearly identical at my table

Rubiksmoose

@doppelgreener Message passed along. And it was appreciated. :)

doppelgreener

Hooray!

KorvinStarmast

@doppelgreener that too

Medix2

@Rubiksmoose TIL this is not common knowledge...

Catija

5:33 PM

@doppelgreener 💚💚💚

4

AncientSwordRage

@Catija CONGRATUMULATIONS

doppelgreener

@Catija :D <3

Catija

I've got hopes but they're still guarded. We'll see how things shake out.

doppelgreener

I was very happy to see that news!

AncientSwordRage

@Medix2 what I find interesting is that if the etymology is correct it's about crawling between dungeons, not through them

@Catija Hope for the best, but plan for the worst?

Catija

5:37 PM

Essentially.

That said, I'm not sure things can get worse than losing Shog.

nitsua60

@Catija Miss ya! Hope all's well in adorable-little-boys' land =)

AncientSwordRage

@Catija :'(

They hire Shog's evil twin?

KorvinStarmast

@AncientSwordRage when people borrow terms like that, semantic accuracy and etymology is rarely something that they are concerned about

@Catija +1 to that

Catija

@nitsua60 Hey! I miss seeing you around, too. Boys are great. They're at their Montessori. It's better for everyone's sanity.

I talk at him in Discord most days. He seems happy, so that's what matters most.

(Shog)

AncientSwordRage

@KorvinStarmast true

doppelgreener

5:56 PM

@Catija I'm glad he's happy.

i'm still stunned they let him walk out the door

much more recently than the whole mess of SO Inc going "wait, meta users ARE valuable???" i remember coming across a game development company that described themselves as "data-informed, not data-driven"

that's stuck with me on account of this whole thing

Catija

@doppelgreener heh. That's a kind way of putting it. Still not sure what caused it.

NautArch

@KorvinStarmast i just protected it

Medix2

6:16 PM

@NautArch Isn't only one answer to it from a user with 9 or less rep?

NautArch

Another one just popped up

It won't necessarily keep higher rep users from answering poorly, tho

Medix2

Yeah that's my point; I only see one answer that would've been stopped had it been protected; so if the frequency, quality, or number of answers is a problem; I don't think protection helps here?

NautArch

@Medix2 It at least stops those users from continuing to pile on

vicky_molokh- unsilence Monica

@Catija It is 2020 . . .

Catija

6:34 PM

That should have been the indicator that everything was going to hades.

NautArch

@Catija I think i might prefer to be in Hades

Catija

This is, hopefully, easier to get out of. I hear Hades is a one-way trip for all but intrepid demigods and ill-fated lovers.

NautArch

@Catija I'm as yet unconvinced.

Thomas Markov

@NautArch I found a way to reduce intelligence.

Rubiksmoose

"intrepid" is a great word. It should be used more.

@ThomasMarkov Reading YouTube comments?

MikeQ

6:46 PM

@ThomasMarkov Writing YouTube comments?

Thomas Markov

@Rubiksmoose Well yeah, but Im not sure I could work that in to an rpg.se answer... :p

NautArch

@ThomasMarkov i saw :)

If you want to fold mine into yours, I'm fine with deleting.

Thomas Markov

If 10 minutes ago I had told you that a baboon drawing from the deck of many things was a valid answer to an rpg.se question, would any of you have believed me?

NautArch

But the odds I think are probably even between introducing the deck into a game for an NPC to use vs introducing an Artifact for an NPC to use and give it the required properties.

Thomas Markov

@NautArch and both are equally absurd.

NautArch

6:47 PM

As is the question.

Thomas Markov

Let's just give the baboon the god weapon that makes you dense.

NautArch

exactly

doppelgreener

@Catija Speaking of which, have an album!: Hadestown

Catija

Oooh, I'll listen to it later. I'm at the car dealership getting my car dealt with. :P

Thomas Markov

tomorrow I join the cool kids club.

that is, the "see deleted posts club".

doppelgreener

6:53 PM

There's a lot of different parts in this particular album—it in fact developed into a stage musical—but the songwriter, Anaïs Mitchell, is the first voice you hear, playing Eurydice.

Catija

The Opera is nice. I've done a few pieces from it.

KorvinStarmast

@ThomasMarkov what would a baboon wish for if the wish card was drawn? Discuss. 🐒🦍

(I find the lack of baboon emojis disturbing ...)

Thomas Markov

@KorvinStarmast Probably wish to cast glyph of warding to store all his smite scrolls for one big banana bash.

2

AncientSwordRage

@ThomasMarkov no, but I am curious

Thomas Markov

0

A: How to cast 5e / 5th lvl 'Awaken' (spell) on 'highly intelligent' plants and beasts?

It's a long shot, but it might be possible with the Deck of Many Things. As noted in NautArch's answer, "you have to reduce their intelligence below the threshold." There is one infamous item capable of doing this: The Deck of Many Things. When you draw the Idiot from the deck, Permanently reduc...

doppelgreener

6:58 PM

@KorvinStarmast a giant tank appears. the baboon climbs in. unstoppable havoc is unleashed upon the jungle.

AncientSwordRage

@ThomasMarkov ook?

Rubiksmoose

@AncientSwordRage hah! That reminds me I saw a now-deleted comment on SFF this morning about Gandalf wearing his ring of power on his ahem staff. And now all I can think of is this song from Pratchett. Double entendres warning.

Bardic Wizard

7:17 PM

Hey, anyone have any advice for people who want to do a game about shape shifting monsters? My friend’s been blowing up my computer with texts about an idea and wants help

KorvinStarmast

@doppelgreener That will be great fun until he runs out of gas, or needs to cross a river. But a good time can be had ...

@BardicWizard You looking for a game recommendation?

Rubiksmoose

@BardicWizard Or are you saying that you want advice on making a game about this?

Either way we need significantly more info to be able to help lol

Bardic Wizard

7:39 PM

I’ll text him and see which he wants to do but he knows I’m getting into game design and just said hey how would this look as a game

AncientSwordRage

@Rubiksmoose there's a reason I deleted it... The humour want as subtle/clever as Pratchett's

Rubiksmoose

@AncientSwordRage Calling it humor is even a bit generous IMO

AncientSwordRage

@Rubiksmoose true

Attempted humour

Rubiksmoose

I had the question followed and saw the first dozen words of the comment in my inbox but it was already deleted lol. It was enough to get the gist though.

AncientSwordRage

7:56 PM

Fair enough

MikeQ

8:23 PM

@BardicWizard As not-entirely-sarcastic advice, maybe have a more concrete set of ideas before asking for advice?

David Coffron

@BardicWizard Like specific shape-shifting monsters (for example, lycanthropes) or like regular monsters that happen to change shape to other regular monsters?

Bardic Wizard

I’ve got a little more info, gimme a minute to type it

Hot RPG Questions

8:47 PM

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Bardic Wizard

Basically my friend wants to do a game where humanoids and monsters live in “harmony” because the monsters can shapeshift into humanoid forms (though still retain a similar appearance, such as dragons turning into winged-and-tailed humans), and explore the social ramifications of that.

@MikeQ sorry, we were texting about it and he had to log off

I probably should have asked for more details

Rubiksmoose

@BardicWizard That sounds very similar to the general idea behind Golden Sky Stories. Though I'm not sure at all about tone or themes for what you friend is looking for.

MikeQ

Ok, so your friend has a partial setting and maybe some themes. To start designing a game, they'll also need to consider the intended gameplay experience (co-op or pvp? asymmetric or symmetric?), and some basic gameplay mechanicsand structure to model the intended narrative. Maybe also think about format (roleplay? board game? electronic?) These don't need to be final decisions, but they're useful to have as starting points.

It may also help to research existing games with similar features to what they have in mind.

Bardic Wizard

He’s more mature-friendly then I am in some ways and has specifically stated (though in different words) that he’d be interested in the ramifications of reproduction between different genetic species, as well as things such as racism, sexism, and the attitudes of humans (especially transgender humans) when other species can basically have a body that reflects their internal sense of self including age, gender, and race and humans can’t.

BESW

What kind of stories does the game tell? In my experience, that's the most important question for figuring out the system for the game.

Right now most of what you're talking about sounds like it's on the level of world-building, and those things could be used to tell all kinds of different stories.

GcL

9:01 PM

@BardicWizard Now I want a campaign world where the humans live in harmony because they can shapeshift into monsters. "Gotta go down to the market." "Don't forget to change into your ooze form! You always get better deals in your ooze form!"

goodguy5

@Rubiksmoose :wave:

@GcL I misread that as ooblek. and now I want an ooblek ooze

BESW

Sundown, for example, is a game about people who have chosen to change their bodies to better reflect themselves--or have chosen to not change their bodies despite pressures to change themselves--and been kicked to the edges of the dominant society as a result. Its central thesis is that being rejected by a society which would only accept you if you lie about yourself, is an empowering opportunity rather than a tragedy.

Monsterhearts is a game about teenagers struggling with coming into physical and mental power in a toxic school environment that doesn't support them. And it uses monster powers as an allegory for that maturation.

GcL

@goodguy5 You ever do the cornstarch+water thing on a speaker for kids? That experiment is usually a hit. Only tip I have is to use either thick plastic wrap or proper 3mil plastic sheeting.

Sub woofers provide some pretty satisfying results, but you can get some interesting stuff out of higher frequencies too.

goodguy5

I think I've seen it done, but my youngling is only 1

GcL

Gotcha. Edible play dough is probably a better near term for you then.

Bardic Wizard

9:06 PM

@BESW here’s his last text:

> What kind of stories? I guess I was thinking just sort of a slice of life kinda thing with the humanoid monsters in focus, mostly in how they interact with environments not built for them and people who may not accept them

MikeQ

@BardicWizard At this point I assume this is intended as a roleplaying game, yes?

Bardic Wizard

@MikeQ yeah AFAIK

He says yeah

MikeQ

Ok, good, that narrows it down tremendously. I'd suggest looking at some existing systems for reference. Figure out what works well, what doesn't, what is lacking. As data points, I'd recommend Monsterhearts (a PBtA game), and some World of Darkness games that deal with monster folk living among human societies.

goodguy5

The oozeblek would have resistance to bludgeoning? right?

BESW

Hmm.

I wouldn't look specifically for monster games as inspiration, because there's no such thing as a monster game engine. Game engines determine things like themes and pacing, most of them can get skinned with whatever content you like.

It sounds like a Belonging Outside Belonging game to me.

Bardic Wizard

9:15 PM

@BESW link?

BESW

Jul 8 at 9:43, by BESW

"What does belonging outside belonging mean?" by Avery Alder on Buried Without Ceremony.

Bardic Wizard

I’ll pass it along, thanks

BESW

And my group tends to use Fate for anything we can't find a more tailor-made system to play, because Fate's less of a game engine and more of a game toolbox: the more the group already shares an understanding of what they want out of the game, the easier it is to use Fate to bring mechanics into the story as needed.

GcL

@BESW Well, there is one. It's loud, involves comically enormous tires, and must be played in a large arena.

BESW

Here's a list of BoB on itchio.

BESW

9:34 PM

Nora Blake wrote a thread on itchio about "What is belonging outside belonging?" and "can I use the label?"

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BESW

@HotRPGQuestions I see "bolt" and for a brief moment I think somebody's asking about the Bolt RPG.

Rubiksmoose

10:43 PM

→ 22 messages moved to Not a bar, but plays one on TV

gszavae

11:50 PM

@linksassin I think the point Naut raised about using diamond powers to do the tasks that normal users do is fairly valid. Obviously, as a mod, you overrule everyone else, but I think it's worth discussing if it hasn't been already.

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