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6:50 AM
the close vote queue is red, time to clean it!
7:46 AM
Morning all. I've been working all weekend, so I have no idea what the day is.
ahh thats why you were in the tavern
Yeah. I was busy running SQL updates in the staging database so we could do some testing this week.
8:04 AM
time to seize the monday and empty the CV queue!
8:33 AM
Is there a minimum rep requirement for applying to be a mod ? It may be good times to apply
I admit being clueless about how moderators are elected
@ArthurHavlicek 300 iirc, and that is only possible when an election is ongoing
it is at this time unknown when the next one will be, but probably well into the new year, so no.
Ok ! ty for clarifications
@ArthurHavlicek The latest election page is here. This has some details about how the elections work. But Magisch is right, there are formal elections. It's not like other forums where moderators are often chosen on an ad-hoc basis.
The nomination requirements on non-SO sites are 300 reputation and have not been suspended in the past year
also, mods aren't necessary to clean out the CV queue. Anyone with over 3000 reputation can partake :)
I went for it but I admit I have work to do and I usually take a long time to decide, may not be the most efficient
8:50 AM
Actually, we can't clean out the review queue. The outcomes for reviews are from a consensus of up to 5 users, but moderators have a "one-click-win" ability that trumps that. We invariably allow users to form a consensus for any open/close voting.
You can't make your vote count as just unprivileged yourself, that's what you mean @Snow ?
yeah mod close votes are always binding.
You can clean the review queue, but it means that consensus stops with you deciding to close. On Software Engineering SE a mod was famously responsible for the vast majority of close votes.
@Snow you look different mate... haircut?
@Kilisi I had a nose-job.
It means the dog is officially in charge now
8:55 AM
ahhhh... get you $$ back, they messed up.... ahaha
Loving this RDR2 can happily roam around feeling nostalgic for my forestry days
@Kilisi It's an improvement, believe me....
Yes, and RDR2 is a fantastic way of relaxing and just riding around. I spent months taking my time and doing everything.
it's cool as
Totally. how are you doing with it? Are you completing challenging, doing the story, or just exploring?
I just roam around mostly and enjoy the graphics, I get my boys to take over and do the missions
I really need to pick RDR2 back up
just haven't had any real decent time for Xbox lately
9:02 AM
@motosubatsu same, I don't have the dedicated time, need to be multi tasking too much like right now
did y'all play horizon zero dawn back when?
I so wished they'd made that for PC
@Magisch never played it.. did look rather spiffy though. It was almost enough to tempt me into buying a PS4
RDR2 is being released at some point for the PC.
@Magisch not me, my favourite game was Diablo 2, then they just totally effed up Diablo 3
@Kilisi diablo 2 is still going strong
check out the medianXL and path of diablo mods :)
9:04 AM
@Kilisi loved Diablo 2.. 3 was pretty "meh" tbh
@Kilisi I'd recommend doing the trapper challenges. They'll involve a lot of exploring and doing different things.
yeah, but I no longer have the game, spent a couple of years online building a crazy stable of paladins, once I lost the account can't be bothered again
RDR2 Interactive map - very useful.
@Snow I'llo get through it all eventually. I got one boy playing RDR2 and one playing Far Cry 4, so I get to roam around on each.... we restarted both games so the geriatric (me) could have a go
I spent hours just fishing in both games. Fishing in Far Cry 4 is better than RDr2 though.
9:08 AM
@Snow is it? I been chucking grenades in the water and machine gunning the fish
@Snow nice map, my boys aren't online though, is there an offline version?
What I really want is a great big space exploration game, but one where I don't actually have to learn how to fly a spaceship. Elite and X2 I tried, both were too crappy in that regard
something more along the lines of Medieval total war but in space
no man's sky?
got a lot better with updates, the planet exploring is pretty neat, and the space flight part isn't too involved
@Kilisi Oh this map? I don't think so because it's updated regularly. You can however buy the official strategy guide which can come as a physical book. Since the game has been out for a long time now, you should be able t find on cheaply on eBay. I have one and it was very useful.
@Magisch that looks like a cool game.... kid friendly?
@Magisch Isn't that very internet-heavy? Kilisi doesn't have much internet bandwidth.
No man's sky isn't internet required iirc
the universe is generated from a seed semi-procedurally when you visit systems.
9:18 AM
Cool. I thought it was a cloud generated thing.
@Kilisi Nothing outwardly kid unfriendly, some space combat but no horror, profanity or anything like that
@Snow I actually don't know exactly. What I do know is that I never noticed it pulling any significant net' traffic
@Magisch just reading up on it, looks very cool
and seems to have single player offline
if I had to guess the way they're doing it is to keep a database of what you have explored locally but the actual generation and mapping happens on the fly based on a common universal seed. Like procedural generation but the same procedure, and everyone starts at a random point in the galaxy
It's not terribly deep but you can learn space languages, explore planets and star systems, craft things, make a base, get new ships, all that. But a lot of it is just visiting cool planets and exploring
@Magisch it looks great
1 hour later…
10:36 AM
So, dare I ask, is Monica still "fired"?
Yes. The new reinstatement process goes live sometime tomorrow, at which point she'll enter her request (if/when she wants to). Obviously, the process isn't immediate.
I'm surprised it doesn't go live Friday night
That's only for bad stuff.
I wouldn't be surprised if this process is stacked against the... appellant.
I think it was you that pointed out there is a moderator dismissal policy that was ignored. They should have reinstated her immanently, and then kicked off that process.
To be fair, the process I linked was one that's initiated by the moderation team, not by SE or the CM team, but there's still a process there of mediation. None of us know how much or little mediation was done between SE and Monica. From what Monica says, it wasn't a lot. My point was that a process doesn't appear to have been followed in her case.
10:48 AM
I personally don't mind if a policy wasn't followed, provided any decisions can look justifiable. After all, it's hard to account for every possible scenario when writing policies (though this would seem general enough case to be covered by a policy).
Moderators do mind. They don't want to feel as though SE can demod them at any time for a reason that doesn't yet exist.
@Snow hear hear
And Monica did get demodded over a CoC violation that is now 2 versions old and never went live. That's sort of wrong.
Agree. And the community has spoken on this.
@Snow I thought the specifics were absolutely unknown, so SE has spoken about what specific violations are charged ?
11:02 AM
@ArthurHavlicek Nope. They didn't share specifics, even with Monica.
she was convicted of violating a rule that wasn't in place, can't know what the violation was and must engage in an ever more obtuse and drawn out set of bureaucratic processes that may or may not be rigged against her - Kafka would truly be proud
And obviously, this needs to be addressed. I expect that SE aren't engaged in speaking with the press to clear her name because the press will ask "So what are you doing about it?", a question for which there's no answer yet.c So the mire remains.
And there's going to be people hating SE for reinstating here. There's going to be people hating SE for not reinstating her. It's all a FUBAR mess of epic proportions.
@Snow don't be foolish.. speaking to the press to retract the earlier slurs on her character would be breaking the newly-minted "no comment" policy
It all really makes me want to bite my tail in frustration.
Me too
Wait a minute
11:13 AM
@GregoryCurrie it makes me want to bite Snow's tail too
Their site, can't sack anyone who isn't being paid.... not worth all the drama I reckon
@Kilisi You're eager at taking unpopular stances these days...
Just these days? ;)
Are you new here?
At least these days I notice it more than before
@ArthurHavlicek I don't really worry about popularity when I take a stance.... probably better if I just shut up.... but, it's my internet, so no need to get uptight about anything
11:25 AM
@Snow Thats my main gripe with this whole thing
this new trend of rescinding the right to know what you're accused of is a blatant affront to justice and ethics everywhere
@Magisch maybe they don't know what to accuse of?
just thought they'd break up a power block thats in the way of what they want to achieve, thats pretty normal
plenty of excellent business reasons for such a thing
@Kilisi then spouting some nebulous accusations to the press would have been even more disingenous. I'm not prepared to believe they'd go that low
~shrugs~ why not? I've se things done including outright threats and lies from businessesen worse
good lord, my keyboard is dodgy as heck... I'll retype
Break up a power block?
I don't think Monica was opposed to anything regarding SE interests, quite the contrary, it doesn't seem like the right conspiracy
11:40 AM
"~shrugs~ why not? I've seen worse things done including outright threats and lies from businesses"
I find it amusing that someone goes from "it's not worth the drama" to a conspiracy theory.
We could imagine for some reason Monica being of extremely bad faith and hiding that SE did give the details in private, and that they are silent because they are embarrassed to make them public. This is a highly unlikely, but decent conspiracy theory
I honestly just think it's balls-to-the-wall incompetency.
@GregoryCurrie and this is the most likely scenario
don't search malice in what stupidity can explain
You know how it is, bosses have a meeting, someone gets their panties twisted, someone else is new and wants to make a splash, another is having a bad day.... they're all high and drunk.... one thing leads to another.... someone peed in the corner, someone puked, strange noises coming from the cupboard and when they sober up someone got sacked by accident.
11:43 AM
And they're doing damage control but they got hangovers except for the ones that had a few to get them started again
That is the life I could have had
yep, great being on top (Y)
End of the day, who cares, not my company
@GregoryCurrie Could you clarify to me your MSE question ? All I really get to it is an offensive subtext regarding SE staff that may not reflect completely what you meant
Q: What other policies does Stack Exchange need?

Gregory CurrieIt's become very apparent over the past few weeks that certain employees of Stack Exchange have not been able to conduct themselves in a manner consistent with community expectations. The result of these behaviours has been harm to the community as a whole, as well as personal harm to individual...

The question needs background to be understood. Anyway, I have avoided naming any specific SE staff, as it doesn't matter the WHO is, only the WHAT.
11:56 AM
I know some of the background I suppose, but I don't really know how it is a question that can be answered
I was surprised when I learnt there was no policy regarding moderator dismissal and moderator reinstatement.
I was doubly surprised that SE didn't appear to have a press policy.
For me, I couldn't imagine the organisation not having those things.
But it gets me thinking, what other scenarios have I not even contemplated where a policy is required.
I mean, I can look to my employers policies, but there are probably things that are somewhat unique due to the nature of stack exchange
maybe a dress code?
I'm sure we'd all be happier if we knew the other people here were all reasonably attired
I'm not wearing pants. If that helps.
You should fit right in then
trousers, shirt for me.... no socks or shoes on though
Thanks for clarification, I may comment/answer that later
1:03 PM
@Magisch Users sometimes tag answers that they want to believe rather than it being the "right" answer. You could leave a comment asking them to reconsider, but as you know, sometimes they don't return or don't want to change their mind. It's just standard noise.
@Snow although that phenomenon does sometimes provide sweet, sweet Populist badges
Yeah. I have a few of those babies.
@Snow Yeah, usually I flag an answer for mod deletion when I have that issue
Are such requests not granted here?
on SO I believe it worked twice before
SO is somewhat different because the difference between right and wrong is a bit more defined. On these kinds of sites, the differentiator between right and wrong is softer.
so should I just leave it?
1:16 PM
There's no harm in you asking the OP to reconsider. Failing that (and users do shoot and leave, never to return), you can edit the answer to point out the issue and point to another answer, if one exists.
ah, okay
4 hours later…
4:56 PM
I like to say that I am prescient, but CS Lewis beat me by nearly a century:

"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron’s cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience. They may be more likely to go to Heaven yet at the same time likelier to make a Hell of earth. This very ki
and in other news....

What do I need to do to get this profile deleted already?
Ah, who am I kidding, the backlog must be going into the months now.
@RichardU You need only wait. It'll happen at some point. As I understand it the backlog is not insignificant.
@Rubiksmoose I've already been waiting for a week.
ooops, I missed the not there, @Rubiksmoose sorry. I misread that. nevermind
No worries :)
3 hours later…
8:14 PM
@Snow is this reinstatement process for all mods who are no longer mods? or just "fired" ones?
Q: What is the process for reinstating a moderator?

JNat Please leave any feedback or questions about this process on this other post. From time to time, moderators will step down or be removed from their positions — they may have expressed their wish to step down due to time constraints or they may have had behaviors unfitting of a moderator an...

> asked 5 mins ago
well then :D
yup. just happened
8:46 PM
Is there any provision for addressing publicly made libelous statements?
8:59 PM
@RichardU That doesn't really make sense to include as part of this process (and they don't as far as I can tell). The assumption is that those don't get made and, if they do, will get handled by external processes (eg courts).
@Rubiksmoose but that is the elephant in the room
@RichardU Is it? There seems to be plenty of people talking about it. Regardless, we are never going to hear anything about that unless Monica chooses to share (and that is dependant on how private discussions with SE go). In no realistic way is that ever going to be carried out in public IMHO.
9:37 PM
@RichardU Greetings and Salutations
Is there any provision? Yep, swearing and muttering.... always makes me feel better

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