@RichardU yeah, life is a strange little fiasco for most of us I think.

@Kilisi Yep. Rhw Buddhists got it right

We all have our own paths to walk, our own challenges to face. It's how we face them that defines us. We can break under the pressure, or we can push forward. Sometimes that will be in the direction we wanted to, sometimes in a direction we didn't expect. I've never just been the leaf on the river, letting it take me where it will. I prefer to guide my own path, even if I sometimes needs to bend a little to get there :)

Or, "Why be the one-legged duck swimming in circles, when you can fly?" :)

@JaneS pretty much sums it up nicely, boldly forging ahead..... unless my wif disagrees in which case I'm a floating leaf

I tried putting my foot down, but that just leads to the one legged duck swimming in circles syndrome... floating leaf is more dignified.

My friend wants to know but doesn't want to create an account: is it bad to lie about your current salary to a prospective employer?

If references are going to be passed from the previous employer, then yes. You don't know whether the salary will be included in that exchange.

What Snow said

Problem is you never know who the potential hirer will speak to, especially if it's a small niche market. Does your friend really want to lose a potential job lead because they embellished their current salary amount?

Same for fabricating a job title to imply a more senior role in the old company.

It's just my friend is trying to take a stupid jump that I completely advised against

He wants to go from junior on minimum wage to mid level 40k

Alternatively, what do you guys think about hiring friends? I currently have a rule that I don't pay out to any family or friends just because of the complications that may arise

@Twyxz hiring friends can be an absolute minefield - it depends on the person of course but it can end very badly

Thats what I was thinking, I have to pay them, and if I can't I'd feel bad (e.g. I went bust or whatever) and also they'll likely be less productive and fitting for the role as a whole

@Twyxz and some will have great difficulty in seeing their friend as their boss

I would see great difficulty bossing around my friend

especially when theyve done something wrong or whatever

@Twyxz and that's the other side of the same problem - it can be difficult to give instructions in the right way or to discipline someone appropriately when they have done something wrong

yeah so stick to the let him apply for a job 4x his skill leve

@Twyxz if his lucky he won't get it

@motosubatsu He's onto 3rd round interviews, hence the question I originally asked because he lied about his wage im just worried it comes into question further on

That's their problem, not yours. You've advised it's a bad idea, and they still went ahead with it. You've done your duty, don't worry any further

That was their question though

Just didn't want to make an account

I would not hire friends except as peers

no supervising friends that is a bad idea

I have one friend who works for me as a PA but it's different with her

where's I feel the friend in current conversation would be an issue

You can always create a question on your friend's behalf if you want, though it would be held up to the usual scrutiny of other questions.

Yeah that's why I'm here

I can't be bothered to avoid treading on lego and plugs whilst trying to get an answer haha

I think I got the answer was no

don't lie about your wage

Any lying anyone does can cause complications if found out, that's the key thing though, it depends on if it's found out and how it weighs on their moral compass

I really wish they would nuke the comments section

I would avoid lying

there is always a chance they'll find out

and then it'll be bad

IF you speak only the truth, you don't have to remember any lies.

And the truth ALWAYS comes out.

I'm still waiting for any truth to come out from those area 51 raids.... ;)

Whatever happened to those

@Twyxz I think they somewhat realized that actually attempting to get into Area 51 is rather than being an amusing lark is actually a long boring slog on foot through miles of desert where you get shot at the end

@motosubatsu Sounds fun to me

On a side note, I have a crack addiction

And not cocaine

Im addicted to going to my chiropractor

@Twyxz don't you mean a quack addiction?

Isn't honking the big thing these days?

@motosubatsu it was never more than a joke. about 15,000 people got together in Roswell and had a beer blast.

Some really interesting questions being asked today.

I'm looking at some of my more recent posts and find them to be unusually free of snark. I might need to test my blood sugar to see if that can explain my unusually good mood.

Do you need me to hand you a donut or take one away?

"Give a man a donut, you'll unsnark him for the day. Teach the man to make a donut and you'll make him obese."

@Twyxz Are you talking about hiring this friend who doesn't know if it's good to lie or not? Sounds like a bad hire.

@Twyxz IMO, salary falls into one of those grey areas where I consider "bluffing" (in various forms) to be an acceptable part of the negotiation progress.

Not necessarily a good idea, mind you.

Potential problems: The hiring manager finds out your friend's old salary, marks them as a liar, and that reputation gets around the local industry. If your friend is otherwise honest about their roles/responsibilities but inflates their old salary above what is plausible, the hiring manager might not even have to find out the real number to know it's false.

Or, their number might end up being too high, and they end up not being offered a job that would be pretty good and pays more than their old one, but less than what they say it used to pay.

Personally, I consider straight up fabrication to be an extreme and risky move.

You can get 80% of the results with 20% of the risk by being smart about it and finding ways to shape the impression/outcome you want without actually lying.

So, for instance, my policy on the salary question is that if the number helps you, give it, if it doesn't, go with "As a rule, I don't discuss previous salary. But assuming I'm right in thinking the salary range for this role is [xyz], that's a number I can work with".

Id add it depends on location. In France disclosing salary is illegal

so you are perfectly fine bluffing

@ArthurHavlicek In France, is bluffing the same thing as lying?

Lying is never a good idea. It requires too much work.

@JoeStrazzere Yes and its perfectly allowed when being asked for previous salary.

it's considered private information. You can lie about it everytime to everybody except when it comes to taxes of course.

@ArthurHavlicek What about just saying how much you want?

it's fine, but some employers ask directly

you can't answer "i want this" to "how much you earn currently" its a bit rude

so you just make up some numbers

like 5-10% less than what you'd ask

or anything plausible really

@ArthurHavlicek sounds like too much work

"Here's what I want, we good? Yes? When do I start"

you can't always drive it that way, no matter how I would like it to be that simple

i've interviewed a bunch of candidates and never asked such a silly question, but mind you, some employers do, that's how it is

@ArthurHavlicek Got it. I believe that lies get uncovered eventually. And I would never hire someone with a reputation for lying. I would virtually never advise someone to lie.

@JoeStrazzere I've seen people encouraging "pro-social deception" on IPS. I like the term. I'm more grey on lying, I feel like sometimes purpose is worth it (white lying)

@ArthurHavlicek A fancy name for liars I guess. We'll have to agree to disagree.

@JoeStrazzere Common example with a godwin point, it's WWII and you are hiding people from the SS, would you be honnest to the gestapo ? There are worse things than a lie, there are several reasons you could forgive someone to lie about. In high school I did lie a lot about my sexuality just to avoid being bullied. I would do it again every time.

I wish people always meant good to each other. THEN it would be no use to lie.

It's possible you'd get shot for even that much of honnesty, anyway...

@ArthurHavlicek But I wouldn't be a liar.

Life's all about choices. Made mine. Don't think my ways are morally inferior in any way

I would prefer to be like this man

@ArthurHavlicek I do not lie, and I do not play dirty, it has often been to my own disadvantage, but so be it.

@ArthurHavlicek Silly examples. Let's not equate those with lying about your salary.

@ArthurHavlicek Recruiters especially can be very insistent about knowing what you currently earn.

@JoeStrazzere I was answering to your general "nobody with a reputation from lying" thing. Anyway, it's a cultural difference. In France, salary is meant to be as private as sexuality. And yes you can be bullied for earning too much or too little in some circles.

To a potential employer, I personnally consider how much I earn should be completely off the table. So I can be honnest, as well as I can make up things based on what I want the interviewer to think. Mostly, I don't have a record that would make me need to lie, but if I had been hired as a junior for very low, I could hide that.

People think low salary means low value or low self esteem. They will question if you want a gap. You can't change that. You can change however that they think that of you.

I realise there’s a lot going on here. But if anyone posts anything into the chatroom that doesn’t look acceptable or is just trolling, please flag it. There’s lots of moderators to help out here, please use them to keep this room clean and respectful. Thank you.

...

Just missed the fun again :(

@user58 Thanks, appreciated

I will be here as much as possible....but please behave while @Snow and I sleep.

;-)

I'm sorry if I caused any drama

It wasn't my intent