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2:14 PM
Permutations for 1,2,1,3,4,3,5,1 are: (8!/(3!*2!), Do I have it right?
 
1 message moved from CRUDE
@user963241 What's your reasoning?
 
math.stackexchange.com/questions/3075763/… Anyone familiar with the 0/0 form of the Stolz-Cesàro theorem?
 
Let me say.
I want to calculate permutations without repetition.
'1' appears 3 times, '3' appears 2 times.
 
2:30 PM
Yes I know that. I'm asking you what your reasoning is.
 
8! means the total number of permutations
I am diving it by 3! and also by 2! to ignore the repeated permutations.
 
Then that's correct!
More precisely, you can think of the "1"s as being differently labelled at first, and then you see that exactly 6 configurations arise when you remove their labels.
And same for the "3"s.
 
Why do I have there (3!*2!) instead of (3! + 2!)?
 
Start with every "1" labelled, say 1a,1b,1c.
And also 3a,3b.
Permute all of them. That's 8!
Now remove all the labels on the "1"s. For each final configuration, how many original configurations corresponded to it?
 
Permutations of 1a, 1b, 1c, 3a, 3b. That's 5!?
 
2:38 PM
@user963241 No I mean in your example: 1a,1b,1c,2,3a,3b,4,5.
 
Oh, sorry I thought '!' exclamation.
That's 40320.
All are unique.
 
5 mins ago, by user21820
Now remove all the labels on the "1"s. For each final configuration, how many original configurations corresponded to it?
 
If I remove all labels, how many duplicate entries I have left?
 
Only remove the labels on the "1"s.
 
Okay, that's easy. I will just divide by 6.
 
2:41 PM
I'm not asking you what to do. I'm asking you a question, and you must answer accordingly to understand.
The removal of labels on "1"s is a process that causes some configurations to become identical. For each final configuration, how many original configurations corresponded to it?
@user963241: Eh are you still there?
 
@user21820 Would you please give me feedback on an attempt of mine to this? If you have time for it, I'll write it up, not that long

https://math.stackexchange.com/questions/3075763/stolz-cesàro-0-0-case-is-limsup-fraca-nb-n-le-limsup-fraca-n1-a-n
 
I don't know what 'configurations ' are.
 
@Learner I saw your question. I'm not that interested in Stolz-Cesaro, since I never needed it to solve any limit/convergence question, so I am not familiar with it to give you an immediate answer. But have you tried to prove/disprove it yourself using the same proof as for the original theorem? If not, why not?
 
Wait, I understand.
 
@user21820 Yes I have, in the meanwhile! I may have succeeded, but I'd be very grateful if you could look at it
 
2:56 PM
@user963241 There's not much meaning to "configuration". As I said just now, you permute all 8 objects, which gives you 8! permutations. I call each of these permutations a configuration, because we're going to deal with other configurations. After the label removal of "1"s, you get some arrangements, which I also call configurations.
 
6 configurations of 1s were duplicate.
 
Right, but you must stop thinking of them as "duplicates" or whatever you're currently thinking of.
Instead, you must focus on the fact that you have 6 original configurations corresponding to 1 final configuration (after the "1" label removal process).
Do you completely understand that?
@Learner You should include your attempted proof in your question, and add the tag and other people are likely to answer it for you. If you get no answer, feel free to ping me here, but I may be busy in the next few weeks.
 
What's 1 final configuration?
 
Uh... Are you fluent in English?
 
Not just fluent in Maths. Let's think of a simple example instead. Say, I have 100 pizzas and I give half of them to my friend and 90% of the remaining to another friend. So, I have: 100 pizzas and half of them is 50 pizzas. I give 90% of 50 i.e. 50 / 10 = 5 remaining pizzas. (100 / 2 * 10) = 5 pizzas.
Why do I do (2 * 10) instead of (2 + 10) ?
 
3:06 PM
Hi
 
@user963241 By saying "not just fluent in Maths" you are telling everyone that you are fluent in Maths and other things too. I think this clearly shows that you are not fluent in English. So just say "no".
And you're also not fluent in mathematics, yet.
I will repeat what I said in simpler terms. If you still cannot understand it, then find someone who can explain it to you.
 
Clearly, I can write English well.
 
No you cannot. Stop this nonsense or leave.
 
Bye.
 
@MohammadZuhairKhan Hi.
 
3:10 PM
Hello. Umm, if you don't mind me asking, what happened?
 
@MohammadZuhairKhan What happened is not relevant to you, but basically I'm not interested in teaching people who waste my time. I have many other things I want to do.
 
No problem then.
 
@MohammadZuhairKhan Do you have a mathematics inquiry?
 
Not really at the moment, it is more towards checking out if someone has a query that I could help with.
 
@user21820 I see, thank you!
I've just updated my question, should I paste the attempt here?
 
3:19 PM
@MohammadZuhairKhan Sure. Feel free to.
 
For reference, here's Learner's question:
1
Q: Stolz-Cesàro $0/0$ case: is $\limsup \frac{a_n}{b_n}\le \limsup\frac{a_{n+1}-a_n}{b_{n+1}-b_n}$?

LearnerThe general form of Stolz-Cesaro $\infty/\infty$ case states that any two real two sequences $a_n$ and $b_n$, with the latter being monotone and unbounded, satisfy $$\liminf\frac{a_{n+1}-a_n}{b_{n+1}-b_n}\le\liminf\frac{a_n}{b_n}\le\limsup \frac{a_n}{b_n}\le \limsup\frac{a_{n+1}-a_n}{b_{n+1}-b_n...

@Learner: You can get this automatic boxing by just putting the question link and nothing else in a chat message.
 
2
Q: Stolz-Cesaro Theorem, 0/0 Case

AaronSHow to prove the $0/0$ case of Stolz-Cesaro Theorem? In other words: Given that $$\lim_{n \to \infty} a_n = \lim_{n \to \infty} b_n = 0$$ with $(b_n)_{n=1}^{\infty}$ strictly monotone, and that $$\lim_{n \to \infty} \frac{a_{n+1} - a_{n}}{b_{n+1} - b_{n}} = L$$ prove that $\lim_{n \to \infty} ...

This was asked 4 years ago, and the answer might help @Learner
 
Yup thanks!
 
@user21820 Oh nice thanks!
 
3:24 PM
Alright, I got to go. See you!
 
@MohammadZuhairKhan Thank you! I might try to adapt that to $\limsup$
@user21820 See ya!
 
@user21820 I know nothing about Stolz-Cesaro theorem, but does the link answer @Learner ?
See you @user21820
 
@MohammadZuhairKhan It might help, but it doesn't because I'm interested in a more general form
 
No problem, if you do manage to answer your question, answer your own question and accept it.
 
*doesn't answer; still, I appreciate it
Yep!
 
 
3 hours later…
6:05 PM
Is a (non-straight) curve in the xy-plane considered to be 1-dimensional or 2-dimensional, and what is the term to used describe its other attribute (either its oneness, consisting in its similarity to a line, or its twoness, consisting in its need to be defined by at least two axes)?
 

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