Hinduism - 2018-08-16

« first day (1519 days earlier) ← previous day next day → last day (2094 days later) »

4:33 AM

:46228781

Not necessary to understand me,

Closed Question by Sarvabhouma, Ankit Sharma, SudarshanaSuri, The Destroyer♦

After having a conversation with @Sarvabhouma, I myself had hit the flag to delete my question

In my question @iammilind answered and I thought it was right and I accepted the answer

After having a conversation with @Pandya, I myself had hit the flag to delete my question And I UnAccepted the answer given to @iammilind

A user gave me a review in my question to reopen, I just clicked to see the reason to reopen, The site has considered my reopened review without displaying any po…

user image

1 hour later…

5:42 AM

@UdhavSarvaiya Yaar.. do you get my point? It is not about site? site people do what eer they want? It is your question. It is not like you can post whatever you want and leave everything on the users. You have to act on your own questions. Others should not hijack your own questions and post as they like. The question changed a lot from what you want to ask and what the other user wanted it. Your intent is important. That is how site works.

@RakeshJoshi Do you have patriotism towards America ?

6:22 AM

@NogShine I think Question is correct, 5 upvotes, and post Reopened by iammilind, Yogesh Borad, Rohit and Rickross

@UdhavSarvaiya Yeah.. you may think but the reason I was said was another thing than what you asked.

I really thanks your contribution on this site, but the question is correct, hope someone gives a correct answer also on this question

@UdhavSarvaiya You're welcome. I have a disagreement with the correctness of the question to our site. I think it is a historical question. There is already 2 correct answers to the question and no need to wait if what you are doing.

I read this two answer very earlier but I think @iammilind's answer really clear my doubts with the correct source

6:38 AM

@UdhavSarvaiya Well, you should also see where the source is coming from. The source is an author's personal opinion which doesn't reflect reality.

The answers misses some points from wikipedia itself which says there is no religion attributed to Bharat Mata

1 hour later…

7:48 AM

1

Q: Do anyone who got temple will make then god/goddesses by default and on topic here?

We just got this question which got debated a lot for on topicness and one of the answerer made argument that it's on topic because “Bharat Mata" have temple make it on topic because Wikipedia say so: If she is not a Hindu goddess, then that can be an answer. One may write as "There is no god...

discussion scope

@UdhavSarvaiya that reopening was more of cliquey.

8:08 AM

@AnkitSharma sorry, what are u say?

@UdhavSarvaiya I say Wikipedia is not reliable source to make scope for this site.

I have already unaccepted the answer, you can check it.

But I see it's reoeped already, even when it was closed by a moderator too

so what can I do?

I did not say to Reopen someone again

@AnkitSharma You know... OP has nothing to do with the reopening. It was hijacked by others and edited, modified etc., to make it on topic. The reason for opening is not the same as OP thinks. Author's intent is not given importance here. OP is going with the flow IMO.

8:18 AM

@NogShine so are we supporting rep farming for keeping the site's scope on edge?

Not acceptable

9:07 AM

I think you are missing the point. I'm interested to know scriptural references that will back up your answer. It is lacking at this point. To be clear, you introduced the term "NAgarika Dharma" to explain why nationalism (as even a concept) is part of Hinduism and consequently reserves a place of mention in your answer. I suggest the easier solution is to remove the sentence: "This is a rare combination of religion and nationalism (a part of Dharma)" because you've not provided any reasonable evidence that nationalism is a part of Dharma. — SudarshanaSuri yesterday

user is clearly not interested in supplying credible answers, he is avoiding in a untoward fashion questions on the credibility of his answer.

pure case of rep farming IMHO

Some meta answer reminds of the idiom cow essay I read in my childhood

> It is a Telugu idiom widely used to make fun of those with narrow scope of knowledge.
Once there was a young man who memorized an essay that is guaranteed to be on the question paper: The famous "cow essay". To his misfortune, the question paper asked him to write on 'sky'. After quite a deliberation, the young man penned his essay:

" The sky is vast. Airplanes travel through the skies. Looking through a window on the plane, one can see green fields on the ground. One can also see cows grazing. Cow is a saintly animal. Her skin is white. She has four legs. The milk obtained from cow is n…

The idiom is used to show that a topic revolve about only one subject no matter what you ask.

@SudarshanaSuri @AnkitSharma Bharat Mata being Goddess Durga is an opinion of an author who wrote a book who is not a religious figure or important in knowledgeable to consider an authentic source. It is like taking an opinion of some random Hindu. The answer is voted and question is reopened based on that. Not necessary to ask scriptural reference for that.

@NogShine What are the procedures when OP doesn't respond to request for reference?

@SudarshanaSuri @AnkitSharma knows it well.

AFAIK, citation banners are to be used as last resort before deletion but they are put in 10 minutes on our site. There came a situation where they are not cared by users. Comment does better job than a citation banner if it is to be used properly.

Citation banner creates confusion if you ask me. It gives just a blanket statement about sources. It doesn't specify which portion is needed and what type of sources. They should be used when there are misleading claims in the answers.

9:27 AM

Should I flag for moderator intervention?

But they are added in the first post reviews. A new user doesn't know what is a citation banner, what is this banner and what he should do etc.,

If I ask this, mods something that is your personal opinion and subjective. What can I do.. I deduce things from a continous behaviour and accepted meta posts.

@SudarshanaSuri I don't know.

ok nvm

9:44 AM

@SudarshanaSuri I am more irritated with statements like The Bharat mata is goddess Durga

No scriptural basis

@SudarshanaSuri flag flag flag and say "add banner" to mods

@SudarshanaSuri I did no response yet

10:23 AM

@UdhavSarvaiya Wikipedia is a valid source, when there is no other verifiable source.

@UdhavSarvaiya Yes, I agree that opinions from different user confused you about on-topicness (because I think you've not clear standing). You can just help the community by telling that are you agree with the edit of @iammilind ?

When there can be temples for madhwa, sankara and ramanuja as avataras then why not bhaarata maata? — Rakesh Joshi 5 mins ago

@SudarshanaSuri I am not answering your queries, because it feels like you are "trolling". You are asking about the last line which is a tit-bit add-on to the answer. The answer is focussed on the main question. Now despite this I gave you the answer that how I derived "Nagarika Dharma" etc. But you told that you are not satisfied. What can I answer more here?

can we keep conversation relevant?

@AnkitSharma and got upvote, shown the cliquishness here

@Pandya I think if a new user misses to ask a proper question, then whenever it's a good question and salvageable, we edit it to do so. @UdhavSarvaiya is free to revert to the original question, but then again we will be in loop of open-close thing.

10:28 AM

@NogShine ok, let me still try to explain you. see citation banner doesn't ensure the correctness of answer, it just increase the reliability. Two answers not citing sources are annotated with banner regardless of they are right or wrong and milind's answer citing Wikipedia (again) regardless it's right or wrong. Instead of engaging in debate, you could have commented something like:

We can't trust Wikipedia always. — The Destroyer ♦ Feb 14 '16 at 9:41

underneath iammilind's answer. and asking him to cite some authentic source.

@AnkitSharma did you see the explanation about on-topicness of the question by Keshav?

> She is an amalgam of all the goddesses of Indian culture and more significantly of goddess Durga.

Wikipedia say this

@iammilind said The Bharat mata is goddess Durga.

Even he is using Wikipedia to make his own conclusions

@Pandya link

17 hours ago, by Keshav Srinivasan

@NogShine I think the Bharatamata question is on topic. I think it's perfectly legitimate to ask on a Hinduism site whether Bharatamata is a Hindu goddess.

onwards

@Pandya but one of the mod also closed it. Better then playing open-close game, we can discuss it over meta and come to conclusion there?

16 hours ago, by Keshav Srinivasan

@NogShine Wearing a Saree is not the reason. The fact that many Hindus worship her is a reason. Combined with the fact that she looks similar to Durga.

@iammilind then edit your answer and say she look like Durga, don't make wrong statements

And many sadhvi dress like female goddesses, so should we also consider them Devi and on-topic?

10:37 AM

I think, we are now discussing something irrelevant.
I will put the discussion to rest here. Thanks.

@iammilind irrelevant is your rudeness in reply but can't help with that so have fun.

@iammilind @iammilind Wikipedia is a valid source then what's wrong when I accept your answer?

@Pandya @Pandya yes i agree with edit of @iammilind on my question

11:00 AM

Whether someone mentions scriptures or wikipedia or just plain philosophy with minimal reference. There is nothing wrong in accepting an answer, when it satisfies what you are asking.
It's completely OP's decision to select the answer he/she likes.

Once you accept an answer then the question cannot be deleted even if closed as off topic. Some of the users may have seen this as hindrance in getting your question deleted.

@UdhavSarvaiya My native is also Rajkot. In our local language, there is a saying: "ગભરાવાનું પણ મૂંઝાવાનું નહિ."
In this site, you be concerned about question quality, but do not get distressed. :-)

@iammilind I accepted the answer and now I will not change my mind

Not distressed, but I respect religion and did not want to be wrong about it

11:16 AM

@UdhavSarvaiya No problem. Even if you change your mind, it's just fine. You may also get a better answer in future and you may change your acceptance. The idea is that every user has to act individually, yet in community.

@UdhavSarvaiya Dude it's your question. So you will have to decide which answer to accept. Why are you being influenced by what others have to say and reverting your decision? One can not force you to unaccept the answer you've accepted. If someone tries doing so in future simply complain to the Mods. They will do the needful.

@UdhavSarvaiya I am not saying that other users are totally wrong. This site is about Hinduism and not India. It's completely true. However, your question if "certain very famous figure is Hindu goddess or not" is a legitimate question. Because it can be answered in Yes/No.

This site has a participation from various people in several timezones. Some may think patriotically but others need not have that. For example, one Moderator says below:

17 hours ago, by Keshav Srinivasan

@NogShine I don't have any sentiments about it. I have zero patriotism toward India, and I don't think Bharatamata should be worshiped by anyone. And an answer that clarifies that Bharatamata is not a Hindu goddess may lead more people to realize that Hindus aren't supposed to worship her.

ok, I got it.
thanks for supporting me

However, that Mod also accepts that your answer is very much On-topic and should remain opened.

17 hours ago, by Keshav Srinivasan

@NogShine I think the Bharatamata question is on topic. I think it's perfectly legitimate to ask on a Hinduism site whether Bharatamata is a Hindu goddess.

@iammilind All I asked is you give reference or remove it. How is that trolling? Did you read my comment? I'm pointing out that you need to give reference sinceit is not enough to use jargon without backing.

11:24 AM

@iammilind @iammilind yes i can read and feel unhappy to see this word, especially in Independence Day

@SudarshanaSuri I have already given you the references hinduism.stackexchange.com/questions/336/… and hinduism.stackexchange.com/questions/16106/…. What more you want?

@UdhavSarvaiya ok. Then roll back to that version.

@iammilind લે બોલો, તો @UdhavSarvaiya પણ ગુજરાતી છે?

Can you please point out in these references where "NAgarika Dharma" term is mentioned and its origin in scriptures? I searched through them. Also, I have also told you that the answers on the question on relation between dharma and religion is inadequately answered in the first place

@Pandya હા ભાઈ ગુજરાતી હો।

@SudarshanaSuri Let me put it this way. "Nagarika Dharma" is "Duty of citizenship". If you have your education in Indian schooling, then you must have come across this:

National Pledge (India)

The National Pledge is an oath of allegiance to the Republic of India. It is commonly recited by Indians in unison at public events, especially in schools, and during the Independence Day and Republic Day celebrations. It is commonly found printed in the opening pages of school textbooks and calendars. It is recited in the morning assembly of most Indian schools. However, Pledge is not part of Indian Constitution. The pledge was originally composed in Telugu language by writer Pydimarri Venkata Subba Rao in 1962. It was first read out in a school in Visakhapatnam in 1963 and was subsequentl...

> India is my country. All Indians are my brothers and sisters.
I love my country and I am proud of its rich and varied heritage.
I shall always strive to be worthy of it.
I shall give my parents, teachers and all elders respect and treat everyone with courtesy.
**To my country and my people, I pledge my devotion**.
In their well being and prosperity alone, lies my happiness.

11:29 AM

I will probably write an historical answer answer to your question. @UdhavSarvaiya ભાઈ!

@iammilind How is this relevant?

@SudarshanaSuri It's not relevant to the actual answer. It's to explain you what is "Nagarika Dharma" (Citizen duty) But since you are asking more and more in details. I am giving you more and more references. Chatting is a better tool than commenting.

@iammilind I'm not asking for more references, I'm stating that currently that answer is without a single credible reference esp. the last line which sounds authoritative and hence has potential to fool others but in reality needs to be justified. Hope this is understandable

Relevant references not more references to put it simply

@Pandya i will waiting @Pandya ભાઈ.

Wikipedia is already quoted. Go to wikipedia and click on the reference links like [1], [2] etc and you will find the cross references.
Scriptural references cannot be found for historical figures.

Last line is not the only answer. It's an add-on.

11:32 AM

@iammilind No mention of NAgarika Dharma in wiki references I checked.

@SudarshanaSuri No mention in "Nagarika Dharma" in the main answer either.

@SudarshanaSuri it's how things run for him. Agree with him else you are troll

@iammilind I didn't bring it up, you brought it up to explain the last line. I'm merely following the natural course of the investigation in the direction you pointed to show that Nationalism is part of Dharma and that this is because it is something called NAgarika Dharma

@SudarshanaSuri Correct. So I explained how "Nagarika Dharma" is derived. In case if you are not convinced, then you can refer the above 2 links; one of them is "martyr concept". That may give more insight that how patriotism is part of Dharma.

So NAgarika Dharma is not found in scriptures?

the term and associated concept to be specific

@iammilind ^

11:39 AM

It could be found somewhere. May be in Manusmriti. But assuming that it's not found in the traditional scriptures, it is definitely found in the constitution or pledges of most of the countries.
And that is also a scripture. Just that it's a modern work.
Since it may not be traditional, I don't make it part of my answer. "Nagarika Dharma" is in comment section to explain you that concept.

@iammilind Find it and add reference otherwise I think it is valid grounds to remove the last statement.

Leaving for the day.
If you still have genuine query, then I can discuss. However, if you want my answer to be edited the way you want, then such discussion may not be helpful.
Thanks for chatting!

@iammilind I shall edit due to lack of proper references.

@AnkitSharma I see what you are saying now

12:30 PM

@SudarshanaSuri I have been to many SE site and there is a way to do healthy discussion but this is not how I expected it

1 hour later…

1:57 PM

0

Q: Indra and Vritra – The Tale of the Vajrayudha

The legend is as follows: Indra, the King of the Devas, was once driven out of Devaloka by an asura named Vritra. This asura was the recipient of a boon which made him invulnerable to any known weapon. This Demon, Vritra, also stole all the water in the world for his own use and for tha...

0

Q: Are Nar-Narayan still alive now?

Nar-Narayan were the incarnation of Vishnu. I don't know in which Kalpa, Manvantra they descended to this Earth but are they alive now?

3 hours later…

4:52 PM

@Pandya I can show the same wikipedia article to show that iammilind's answer is wrong and others answers are right. If banners don't guarantee rightness, if votes don't guarantee correctness, what will guarantee? What is the need of putting guarantee? What is the purpose of voting? There is an escaping attitude from the moderators about everything say votes, comments, banners everything.

@Pandya It is still wrong. Did you see my objection to them? If Keshav explains here and it doesn't explain it in the question? How will it convey to others? The reason the question is open and why Keshav thinks and what OP is thinking are totally different matters. They are contradicting. Even the reasons given by Keshav are not sufficient.

@iammilind Hindus worship? When they worship, they do as Indians and not as Hindus. Hindus are subset of Indians.

@Pandya @UdhavSarvaiya English please.

@AnkitSharma This is how things work on chat here. No chat moderation. You have to deal with it.

Hi

@NogShine hi

1 hour later…

6:06 PM

Traffic was too slow today , i mean not much questions.@KrishnaShweta Hey hii & to Shree Charan also & 2 @TheLittleNaruto 😀

TheLittleNaruto

@SwiftPushkar Yeah right

What's up @Swift

@SwiftPushkar Most of the questions we got these days are overrated IMO

voted out of emotions both on main and meta

@TheLittleNaruto - Not much , was trying to sleep but couldn't resisted to give a sneak pick at HI SE ,as usual.

@NogShine Can I pls.say something .😀

@SwiftPushkar Hi

Is it pick or what , i dont know the spelling ,peak may be 😀

6:15 PM

@SwiftPushkar what?

@NogShine I want to understand how that post belongs to History?

We can discuss it tomorrow if you want.

@KrishnaShweta history.se or what?

History.SE

@KrishnaShweta why do you think it's not?

0

Q: Can we add a citation banner for answers that rely solely on Wikipedia?

How about adding an insufficient explanation banner to answers that use Wikipedia as their only source? From this answer: insufficient explanation We're looking for long answers that provide some explanation and context. Don't just give a one-line answer; explain why your answer is righ...

support feature-request answers sources-and-citations

6:23 PM

:46251001 yeah. Let's take everything light. Site's quality... I need not say that

@NogShine I didn't think anything. I'm just trying to understand how it is for History.SE

@KrishnaShweta the question was Who was Bharat Mata aand why is she holding flag. It is related to India and history. Such questions are ok there

but there were many additions and modifications and made her goddess

@NogShine Ok..

@NogShine I am not saying that with compromising of quality. Its about our personal well being. I mean it's we who is going to suffer mentally , & the outcome will not be much with comparison of what we are loosing.

Is Bharat means only India according to Hinduism?

6:28 PM

@SwiftPushkar You should say that to people who are targeting users and bring sentiments.

I was reading your answer.. (again)

8

A: What was the name of 'Hindustan' before 'Bharat'?

The name was Ajanābha-varṣa. This was the name given to the planet earth. But after the activities of the king Bharata, the country is named as Bhārata-varṣa. This is said in the Śrīmad Bhāgavatam. Skanda 5 chapter 7 ajanābhaṁ nāmaitad varṣaṁ bhāratam iti yata ārabhya vyapadiśanti. Form...

@KrishnaShweta See.. we should give right answers. Bharat Mata means Bharat of Hinduism was half part of Asia. Pakistan, Sri Lanka etc., won't accept these made definitions. As of today, Bharat means India. We should not see religion here. Religion and patriotism are different.

> Formerly this planet was known as Ajanābha-varṣa, but since Mahārāja Bharata’s reign it has become known as Bhārata-varṣa.

From your answer

It says "this planet".

@SwiftPushkar No need to delete messages. It confuses a lot. There is nothing wrong in the messages. Don't delete

Not limiting to a part of planet

6:32 PM

@KrishnaShweta that's translator's version.

Ok.. Then which place that verse is referring to?

@SwiftPushkar Don't delete. It will affect room status

@NogShine I just checked previous verse

People don't know what is dupe and what is not :facepalm:

bharatas tu mahā-bhāgavato yadā bhagavat āvani -tala-paripālanāya sañcintitas tad-anuśāsana-paraḥ pañcajanīṁ viśvarūpa-duhitaram upayeme.

avani = earth

6:42 PM

in Hinduism Trivia Quiz, Jan 22 '17 at 5:06, by SwiftPushkar

QUIZ - What was the name of Bharat Varsha BEFORE Bharata? -Options 1) Sindhu Pradesh 2) Sapta Sindhu 3) Ajanabha Varsha 4) Dev Bhoomi

@KrishnaShweta ⬆

Those were the Happy Day's.

And this @NogShine

5

Q: What do the Vedas say about the Earth?

This article mentions this about Earth in Hinduism Earth is represented as goddess, which feeds everyone. All the forms of earth and of life on it are the children of earth. Rivers, trees animals are attendants of the earth goddess. What do the Vedas say about the Earth?

@SwiftPushkar Which?

it's heavely raining here ,what abt. the Place of you people?

@KrishnaShweta Haha those of past.

@KrishnaShweta why?

Do you mean to say Bharat means Earth @KrishnaShweta ?

From your answer,

The name was Ajanābha-varṣa. This was the name given to the planet earth. But after the activities of the king Bharata, the country is named as Bhārata-varṣa.

Please....

6:52 PM

Those are your words :(

but we live in a country named India which is also called Bharat. Bharat Mata is only limited to them and not others who live on this planet.

@KrishnaShweta it is illogical

Do you ask a US citizen to bow down to Indian flag and say everything is India?

India (IAST: Bhārat), also called the Republic of India (IAST: Bhārat Gaṇarājya), is a country in South Asia. It is the seventh-largest country by area, the second-most populous country (with over 1.2 billion people), and the most populous democracy in the world. It is bounded by the Indian Ocean on the south, the Arabian Sea on the southwest, and the Bay of Bengal on the southeast. It shares land borders with Pakistan to the west; China, Nepal, and Bhutan to the northeast; and Bangladesh and Myanmar to the east. In the Indian Ocean, India is in the vicinity of Sri Lanka and the Maldives. India...

@NogShine I understand. But...

I'm not saying everything is India

Leave about India for few mins.

10 hours ago, by Nog Shine

> It is a Telugu idiom widely used to make fun of those with narrow scope of knowledge.
Once there was a young man who memorized an essay that is guaranteed to be on the question paper: The famous "cow essay". To his misfortune, the question paper asked him to write on 'sky'. After quite a deliberation, the young man penned his essay:

" The sky is vast. Airplanes travel through the skies. Looking through a window on the plane, one can see green fields on the ground. One can also see cows grazing. Cow is a saintly animal. Her skin is white. She has four legs. The milk obtained from cow is n…

Me closing my eyes 😴 Going to sleep ,be 🆒 guy's TC BYE ,GN 🙋

@SwiftPushkar Good night

@KrishnaShweta Read this story. Some unrelated issue is brought to the topic Cow. Similar thing is happening here.

7:03 PM

29 mins ago, by Krishna Shweta

Ok.. Then which place that verse is referring to?

Wow @BhargavRao That was a nice edit.

thanks :)

@KrishnaShweta that place is no longer the place we know. continental drift theory

@BhargavRao Do you know? Some people on our site are very clear about what is unfriendly language.. apparently that is what I speak (:

Yes, I'm also learning to become more welcoming.

Did you understand what I said? The language I speak.. (whatever it may be) is unfriendly. Other comments which are targeting users are not..

7:15 PM

1

Q: How did Hanuman recover from the sin committed due to Sagarollanghana?

I read in this question that Sagarollanghana is prohibited and leads to a loss of caste. Now Sagarollanghana literally means 'leaping over the Saagara'. It appears from the answer that the Manusmriti also corroborates this though I don't know the exact Sanskrit term used there. Was there anythin...

hanuman sin smriti

@BhargavRao When I started be polite and friendly, there was not much impact. So, I continued to be in neutral tone. But people understand it as rude due to some reasons.

@KrishnaShweta @KrishnaShweta The word is Varsha and the near translation is continent

7:55 PM

@NogShine yep, I understood.

And my reply was suited for that. ;)

3 hours later…

TheLittleNaruto

11:10 PM

@SwiftPushkar lol

« first day (1519 days earlier) ← previous day next day → last day (2094 days later) »

Transcript for

Aug '1816

Hinduism

General discussion for hinduism.stackexchange.com; New her...

ping-fest sanatana-dharma support वार्तामञ्च

join this room
about this room

00:00

06:00

12:00

18:00

all times are UTC

site design / logo © 2024 Stack Exchange Inc; legal

mobile