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12:36 AM
@IsaacMoses judaism.stackexchange.com/posts/16330/revisions I wish there were a way to see how an edit you're in the middle of compares to one saved while you were making it, before committing. Or something.
@msh210 jinx!
@IsaacMoses :-)
Incidentally, /u/2 works instead of /users/2. Useful in very-slightly-too-long comments.
@IsaacMoses great minds... :-)
Well that's a bummer -- offered a bounty for the first time and it expired with no takers. :-(
1:01 AM
@MonicaCellio That just happened to me, too, with
Q: Mushrooms in a Vineyard

Double AAThe bracha on a mushroom is "shehakol" because the Talmud (Berachot 40b) correctly (I think) states that mushrooms do not derive their nutrients from the ground. If a mushroom is growing in a vineyard, does that constitute Kilaei HaKerem (forbidden mixture of plant species in a vineyard) conside...

@MonicaCellio Which question are you referring to?
Q: Are robo-calls permitted?

Monica CellioA robo-call is an automated phone call that does not involve a human caller. The majority of these are uninvited solicitations (either for money or votes), and these are the ones I'm asking about. Robo-calls, being automated, are much less expensive for an organization to make than conventional...

@msh210 Yours was an interesting question that I had no clue how to answer. :-(
2 hours later…
3:14 AM
Alright, people of chat, let's hear what you think:
3:24 AM
"people of chat"
@HodofHod bammers?
@HodofHod drashers?
@HodofHod tashmers?
@IsaacMoses bamdrashtashmers???
@HodofHod As compromised designs by committee go, that one has a certain ring to it
@IsaacMoses I haven't followed the links in the question, but assuming that this is a specifically-Jewish organization (i.e. sensitive to halacha) then I think it's on-topic. However, I think it's broad and at risk of attracting non-answers about the effectiveness of such approaches, so part of me wants to close as not constructive even though the OP seems to be asking in good faith and trying to fit to our format.
Perhaps a question specifically about JONAH's success rate would be answerable?
@MonicaCellio That sounds like a decent idea.
Can anyone think of a parallel type of question in a less controversial realm?
e.g. Do the methods of Chaim's Frum Construction Company result in stronger buildings?
... but more realistic?
3:35 AM
@IsaacMoses we've seen questions about the reliability of specific kashrut organizations; those seem broadly in the same vein.
@IsaacMoses a question about how effective a particular tzedakah organization is (e.g. how much of the money goes to what) would be similar.
@MonicaCellio I like that example better than kashrut organizations
"Do organizations (such as Oorah) that use glitzy Chinese auctions to raise money make efficient use of tzedaka funds by doing so?"
^^ Would that be on-topic?
@IsaacMoses I think I'm getting hung up on the "such as". There's no global "this works" or "this doesn't", whether you're talking about behavior modification or fund-raising. We can talk about Oorah or JONAH, but I don't know if we can talk about the class.
Well, unless it's a survey question: does anybody know of an efficient tzedakah organization that uses method X (where "efficient" is defined).
But that's a very different question.
@MonicaCellio Couldn't there be results from a [psychological|economic] study that would answer such questions about the class?
@IsaacMoses ah, good point. So a question more about methods than organizations, then?
Maybe that's what OP intended, since I think that "such as" language has been there from the start.
Sorry to post and run, but I'm going to have to drop off now. I'll check in tomorrow morning (b"n).
@MonicaCellio Thanks for your nutritious food for thought
3:43 AM
@IsaacMoses Glad to help. G'night.
@HodofHod? @DoubleAA? What do you think? Which of the following question forms would be a valid question here:
1) Are organizations (such as X) who do Y effective at achieving Z?
2) Is X, in doing Y, effective at achieving Z?
3) Is Y effective at achieving Z?
4) Does anyone know of an organization that is effective at achieving Z through Y?
... where X is a Jewish organization and Z is presumed to be a Jewishly-valuable end. (And is there some qualification on Y?)
Let's leave that open to the floor. I guess it's worth Meta-ing up.
@IsaacMoses What's the difference between 1 and 3?
@DoubleAA , @MonicaCellio suggested that there may be a distinction. Feel free to dispute.
In other news, I was going to seek outlet for my annoyance with goings-on in this question by searching Google Images for "No Stairway to Heaven," intending to reference Wayne's World and suggest we put at the top of the FAQ a "No Rock-that-God-can't-move question" rule. The first result from Google Images was to Jeff Atwood.
... I think, in context, that means that my impulse was correct.
3:58 AM
@IsaacMoses What exactly did you want to add to the FAQ?
... though I guess now, we can just mark such as a dupe and move on.
... and we just have to deal with the armchair philosophers it attracts in one place.
@IsaacMoses That's what I thought. Dupe it and that's it. We may have to protect the original one.
@HodofHod (I was just expressing frustration BTW, not actually proposing a FAQ ammendment) 8^P
(@HodofHod, there, I restored my bungled chat editing. Sorry about the multiple pings)
4:35 AM
Anyone else think we should roll all these answers into one?
Q: Shir Hashirim on Shabbos Chol Hamoed

SimchasTorahWhy is it we read Shir Hashirim on Shabbbos Chol Hamoed Pesach?

5:00 AM
@IsaacMoses ^^^
@HodofHod All the ones from the same person, you mean?
@IsaacMoses yep
@HodofHod Do we usually do that?
What's up with leaving users?
@IsaacMoses idk, but it irks me that there are 4 self-answers to that question, each with nothing more than a link
a lot of things irk me today, btw :D
5:03 AM
@HodofHod and they are one liners
@ShmuelBrin what?
@HodofHod another user just left us
@ShmuelBrin ahh, well he didn't upvote me even once, so I didn't notice
@ShmuelBrin Who, now?
5:07 AM
@HodofHod Deleted by SE?
@IsaacMoses do we need to undelete those questions (like we had to when a previous user left us)
@IsaacMoses I guess so
wouldn't be the first time
@ShmuelBrin I guess we could
@IsaacMoses I can't anymore :(
@HodofHod This one is more of a comment than an answer
@HodofHod and this one seems to be without a source. I don't see too much value in undeleting them
5:10 AM
@IsaacMoses I link to it only because one of the comments contains the user's name
@HodofHod Thanks. I don't have a distinct memory of this user
is this a duplicate?
Q: Following minhag of tzitzit in vs. out

SeanWhen I became frum (around 2 years ago) I started wearing tzitzit hanging out. My grandfather just told me that he remembers that when he was a kid, he tucked his tzitzit in. He remembers his father and grandfather (from Galitzia) doing the same. Should I switch my minhag? I prefer to wear them o...

@IsaacMoses I have a vague recollection. Wasn't active except recently, I think
@ShmuelBrin It looks like a minhag question more than a tzitzit question. ... and more of a CYR question than a MY question, perhaps
@IsaacMoses That's why I asked. Either it's a duplicate (why is there such a custom) or off topic (what should I do now)?
5:17 AM
@ShmuelBrin OK; closed
5:35 AM
@IsaacMoses Agreed.
@ShmuelBrin I lost 10 rep :(
@HodofHod So don't expect anyone to upvote them.
@DoubleAA I'm not worried about that, believe me. It's cleanup I'm thinking about
anyways. night all
@HodofHod perhaps making them into comments would be more appropriate
@HodofHod They used to be full answers, but they were illegal, so @IsaacMoses removed them.
5:52 AM
I don't know if anyone noticed, but the God/Rock question is up in the SE Hot Questions list, hence it's high view count: currently 516.
@DoubleAA Wonderful. At least it's got some high-quality sourced answers.
@DoubleAA Anyone think any mod action on Mr. Stewart's contributions is necessary?
@IsaacMoses Nah. It's gibberish not offensive, and it does try to answer the question. Plus it has a -10 which will tell any viewer what the Community of Experts thinks.
@IsaacMoses Although I wouldn't mind if you got rid of my exchange with him in the comments to Menachem's answer. That was really irrelevant.
@DoubleAA ...and a copy of his comments elsewhere
@IsaacMoses I missed the 'a' and 'of' there.
...but if it's harmless gibberish, I think we might as well leave it as much as we leave the rest of his stuff
@DoubleAA ah
6:01 AM
@IsaacMoses It's harmless but it is interrupting my addmittedly long exchange with Menachem. And it is not shayach to Menachem's answer. He basically jumped in and accused Menachem of trying to argue with him. I say those comments are off topic for that answer.
@Vram ברוך הבא
@DoubleAA ברוך הנמצא
@DoubleAA מה שלום כבודו?
@DoubleAA I'll leave them for now, but won't be offended if someone else doesn't.
bye for now
13 hours ago, by msh210
@MonicaCellio Stakes are low, yes. I'm tempted to do what HodofHod suggested and just grab the noun ("The Beit Midrash"), especially since I personally don't like it (and downvoted it).
^^ @ه ه @DoubleAA this okay with you? (Re naming this chatroom.)
6:17 AM
@msh210 meh.
@DoubleAA kol hatzon?
@DoubleAA I know. It was a joke. "Meh kol hatzon" is a quote from I Sh'muel (chap. 15ish I guess), and "meh" is in fact kol hatzon.
@msh210 15:14 in fact. I always found it odd because I usally think of "bahhh" for sheep.
@DoubleAA Tzon = sheep and goats.
6:24 AM
@msh210 It's like hav hav vs woof woof.
@DoubleAA Right. Animals' sounds vary widely between languages.
@msh210 I thought goats also 'baahhh' but apparently you win: answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080123004251AASFd8i
@DoubleAA Most people on that page agree with you, or say 'mah'. Whatever.
8 mins ago, by Double AA
@msh210 meh.
@DoubleAA Just so we can close off that discussion and act already. But all right. I'll bl"n set up a runoff per discussion here.
6:47 AM
...done. (See next post by the SE feed bot.)
7:09 AM
All: Move the following to meta?
Q: Make for yourself a website?

YahuCan a site like mi.yodeya.com be used for one to fulfill our sages mandate of "Make for yourself a Rav"? Obviously I meant this facetiously. Of course a website cannot take the place of a rav, but did you see some of the halachic questions that are being asked and sound like they are being asked...

(I think so.)
Q: Name Mi Yodeya's chat room, part two

msh210We've had a number of good suggestions for our chat room's name, and the upvotes and downvotes on each showed that there are five favorites (answers with net vote count greater than one standard deviation above the mean as of this writing, if you care). Here, you're being asked to vote among thos...

2 hours later…
4 hours later…
12:59 PM
@AdamMosheh He participated here a little early on; I don't know how recently.
@IsaacMoses On "Orgs (such as X) who do Y..." versus "Y...", I'm not sure there's a difference. What would be different is "is org X effective at Z" without mentioning Y.
2 hours later…
@Dave What was the story? Was he using your gravatar?
@IsaacMoses is being too nice here. The username you selected borders on identity theft, and misrepresents yourself. We're happy to have you here, but please be a mensch. — Dave 45 mins ago
2 hours later…
4:37 PM
Boy, it's a busy day today!
7 hours later…
11:16 PM
Does anyone else feel like the font on Hebrew is a little bit on the small side?
For example go to this page and look at the related questions on the left:
Q: How do you pronounce Hashem's name when there is a prefix?

Identitytheft-DaveWhen you have a prefix, such as a lamed, before the name YKVK people pronounce it la | donai instead of la | a | donai. Why?

@HodofHod I noticed that in the comments. it's fine in the posts IMO.
Can you easily distinguish nekudos, or even similar letters? (resh-dalet, beis chaf)
@HodofHod The right, you mean? yeah, it's small there, too.
@msh210 The posts, yes, but everywhere else is smallish
worth kvetching about, you think?
@HodofHod Yes.
11:19 PM
@msh210 What should we suggest? Using a different font or font size only for the Hebrew, while leaving the English the same? Is that even possible?
@HodofHod that would be impossible unless there's some kind of parser server-side that adds HTML tags around detected Hebrew. I highly doubt that's gonna happen.
@HodofHod The alternative would be larger text overall, or a different font (whcih shows Hebrew larger).
@msh210 So switch out the entire font?
@msh210 Larger text is impractical, who wants to have text that looks like it's from a 2nd grade reading book?
@HodofHod Probably impractical, yeah.
Ok, then, I'll write up a meta post
@HodofHod I guess so, yeah.
11:23 PM
@IsaacMoses Welcome! What say you? ^^^
@HodofHod It does look a little small. I know nothing about implementation of any remedies
I'll be back in a while
@HodofHod Actually, that'd be possible with Javascript that detects the character. but then it's only for JS browsers.
@IsaacMoses Where's a graphic designer/web developer when you need him?
Oh that's right, Jin!
@HodofHod :-)
weird things be happening to my chat posts.
Anyone want to volunteer a daf to hebrewbooks?
yesterday, by Menachem
@HodofHod I'm doing Daf Ches
...ok then!
11:42 PM
@msh210 I've posted the q, would it bother you to put in a screenshot or two (again)?
@HodofHod I'm not on a Mac now. If no one's done it by tomorrow (when I'll be on a Mac), ping me, and I'll bl"n do it. (It's easier to screenshoot on a Mac -- or, at least, easier for me.)
@msh210 really? Windows 7 finally added a very easy tool (at least, for me)
@HodofHod Using Ubuntu here. Macs take partial screenshots: they let you outline any rectangle you want. Here I have to take a whole screenshot and then crop.
@msh210 Ahh, windows has the same tool.
@msh210 Ubuntu, huh? That's three linux users among our core community.
so far.
That actually surprises me. In a good way
@HodofHod Why is it good?
11:52 PM
@msh210 I'm a geek. I like it when people are willing/able to use a more powerful system, even if it can sometimes be less user friendly.

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