Maybe I just read past it in the docs, but how to do a while-true?.. I know I can use [ to start an infinite loop, but I doubt it's possible to use i}} to break it, since the first } would end the if instead of the loop.

Nvm, found it. I should use #. Not sure how I read past that..

@KevinCruijssen I think you've misunderstood the challenge here. Your output isn't quite correct. For example, your solution outputs 424 which is not a Lynch-Bell number (as 4 occurrs twice).

You could also golf the code down to at least 16 bytes. You'll probably see a few when you fix the answer. If you want some tips after that let me know :)

@Emigna Ah, no I haven't misunderstood the challenge, I just incorrectly implemented my solution.. Ô should have been Ù.

@Emigna I'll see if I can get the byte-count down a bit.

15 bytes also possible

@Emigna I don't think I'll get it down to 15.. ;) But I'm working on golfing it a bit more. I'm still learning. I'm also a bit confused on how the loops works. For example, why does DS€ÖPΘ (with implicit leading I) work, but 3°FNDS€ÖPΘ– not? Is this due to the € inner-loop?

I have the feeling I'm missing something obvious causing me to struggle more than I should.. PS: I've never used actual golfing languages, except maybe one or two answers in Charcoal, so maybe there is a default way loops are handled in almost all golfing languages which I'm not familiar with yet.

@KevinCruijssen € isn't acually a loop. It's "map this function on all elements".

It should work a lot better without € as Ö vectorizes

Ö is the primary function you need to get yours down to 15, so you are on the right track :)

Hmm, how is Kevin's submission valid in the first place? The largest number it outputs is 936, but shouldn't 9867312 be the last one instead??

Oh I see. The version on TIO uses a smaller upper bound due to technical limitations.

@Emigna Does your 15-byter output as a list or joined with newlines?

As a list, I've got a 14-byter

@Mr.Xcoder Nice! my 15 was a list (16 with newlines in more than 1 way)

And I believe mine can be golfed a little.

I'd show it to you, but I don't want to spoil it to Kevin just yet

Cool! I'll be interested in seeing what I missed. I need to look at it some more now :P

Mine uses a very weird trick to check if the number contains zeros :P

Hmm, interesting. Mine uses a standard one so that may be where you saved a byte

Whoops. My output doesn't seem to match the one in Kevin's answer for a couple of numbers... Weird. Turns out you didn't miss anything :P

Actually, with your modulo trick, I'm down to 13 :)

Hmm, does yours output the number 297?

No

Neither does mine; Kevin's does/

But it shouldn't?

297 is not in OEIS, so it's Kevin's answer that goes wrong somewhere

Plus, 297 can't be divisible by 2

Indeed

So now you have a byte to save ;)

Great :)

My code contains Ð...sD so I think I can shorten the stack manipulation. Will look into it. I'm kinda proud of the mod by 0 observation there, though :P

I'm at 12 now

Yeah, I never would have assumed that mod 0 returned the number.

I could just straight up delete 2 bytes with that realization

I’m eager to see how much se can golf this — I doubt < 12 / 11 bytes is even possible

@Emigna One small Q: Do you also use a filter-loop?

I really don't see how to get it below 12, but if it's possible, 11 should be the min

Yes I do

Could be changed to F at a 1-byte cost

I don’t think my version can be that easily ported to F

Here you are talking about 12-15 byte answers while my 30-byte answer doesn't even work, lol..

We have a bit more experience golfing in 05AB1E though

^

I wouldn't stand a chance if it was Java :P

You'll get the hang of it. Plus, you golf in Java more so you have a well-formed Java-mindset

;)

I'm still confused loops I guess.. For example, why does 0¢ correctly count the zeros in the input-number, but 25FN0¢, only outputs 0 for ever N?

Try 25FNS0¢,. The problem is not the loop.

Or N§

it doesn't see N as a string

seems like a bug

You have to split N into its individual contents with S or what Emigna said to make ¢ treat it as a string.

I would expect 25F to be loop N in range [0,25], N0¢ to be count all zeros in N, and , printing the result-boolean. Where are my thoughts incorrect?

I agree that's not an optimal behaviour, it may require a fix.

it "should" work, but it apparently doesn't

@KevinCruijssen Your thoughts are correct, there seem to be a bug in ¢ though

I'm pretty sure ¢ is bugged in some other way as well, but I can't remember how

¢ is the problem. It doesn't count all zeros in the string representation of N by default, unless you cast it to a string/list of chars manually

@Emigna Ah ok. So Xcoder's S is to cast the integer to a list, and then the ¢ works. (And with integer input is implicitly reads it as string for ¢?)

Yes

and with § you can manually cast it to string

Can I put my current code in a TIO link (Kevin should try a bit more before looking at the spoiler :P) for Emigna to check if I'm on the right track to 12?

I won't look. I want to fix my code and down to at least sub 25 (preferably sub 20) before looking at your answers. Although I might ask for tips if I'm stuck ;)

Ok then, my 14-byter.

@Mr.Xcoder If you remove 2 bytes and rearrange the code a bit, you get 12 ;)

I'm guessing among ÐDs, right?

Hmm.. actually I also have to get back to work for a moment. Still have to fix something before my day off tomorrow (national holiday in The Netherlands) so my colleague in Sri Lanka can continue.. Will do that first, hopefully I still have some time to fix my answer before I leave the office.

@Mr.Xcoder One of those yes

Will let both of you know when I've fixed and golfed my code (probably tonight or tomorrow)

And the other one is currently a no-op in your answer

No-op? I tried to remove each of them (but mainly the triplicate) and it produced a completely different output.

The byte you can remove that is not among the 3 you mentioned is a no-op. The one among the 3 can be removed with reordering.

I see, thank you

@KevinCruijssen Where in the Netherlands are you from? (I did exchange studies in Delft). Didn't really learn any Dutch though. Too easy to get by on English.

@Emigna D'oh, of course! (down to 13)

:)

is the rule "The decimal representation of N does not contain the digit 0" implemented in your solutions ?

@Kaldo Yes

I have a 13 bytes solution that doesn't really take that into account and it doesn't seem like there's a difference for the first 25 numbers

In a very nice way discovered by Mr. Xcoder

hmm

It is very obscurely implemented, but yes :)

Then you might use the same trick without having thought of it

I'm checking with the full range of values

I can't get to 12 just yet. However, I found another 13-byter

@Mr.Xcoder Soooo very close to 12

You know, division by 0 also returns the number unchanged :D

Wondering how I didn't notice by now

That I did know

Out of curiosity, what does Â do?

DR

quite useful

@Emigna I'm from Hurwenen, which I doubt you know. It's a small village with about 900 residence. ;)

Definitely don't know that one

Most people that live in The Netherlands don't even know it ;p

Only visited larger cities mostly on the coast

Utrecht was the furthest inland I went (I think)

I feel like 05AB1E should have a shorthand for sD if it doesn't already

Yeah, Delft is near Den Haag (The Hague). Hurwenen is between 's-Hertogenbosch and Utrecht (southern part of the province Gelderland), between the rivers Maas and Waal.

Maybe sDŠ

@KevinCruijssen Know all of those locations except for the one you live in :P

:P

Where are you from?

Another 13 byter :|

MATL has a built in for sDŠ. I haven't needed it a lot, so I'm not sure it's worth 1-byte

Örnsköldsvik, Sweden

Which you've probably only heard of if you're into Hockey

Or possibly because we have Akzo Nobel here (which was bought by a Dutch company)

Ah ok. And I'm not really into Hockey. I must admit I barely know any Swedish cities.

Geography was never really a good subject for me either at highschool..

^

Geography is not a good subject for me right now (though I was good at it during school). I can't even place the Swedish "states" on a map

Though I don't recall that we had Geography past middle-school, and that was mostly name countries/capitals/rivers in sweden/europe/the world

Can I have another hint for 12? Heck, I can't figure it out

@Mr.Xcoder Swap 2 bytes and then remove one of them

The 'states' (provinces) in The Netherlands are luckily pretty easy. And I might know the 'capitals' of each of those provinces. But that's about it. Last time I had a geography class was about 12 years ago.. (and with highschool I indeed meant middle-school). In English it's primary school, highschool, and college/university IIRC. Here we call it (literal translation from Dutch): Basic school, middle-school, high school.

Anyway, I'm off again. Was waiting for some compilations to finish and noticed your tag. Have a nice evening. And good luck with the 12-byter @Mr.Xcoder.

Thanks :)

By middle-school I meant age 10-12 or so

13 bytes

my non-0 digits check was actually implemented in my solution

ʒ actually expects 1

and not a truthy value

since Ö on [a,0] returns a

@Kaldo 1 is the only truthy value in 05AB1E

P on an array with a non-1 value will produce a greater result than 1

You are also very close to 12 bytes

now time to check the multiple 13-byter solutions from @Mr.Xcoder :D

same tip I gave him applies to yours

you have the 12-byte solution right (I didn't follow the entire conversation sorry :s)

?

I think I found it

Yes

Nice

thanks, I'll check : -)

Hello @Nit!

@Mr.Xcoder Sup. I haven't tried 05ab1e out yet, but I'm probably going to once I find a challenge where I think I could make it work.

I'm not really that familiar with golfing langs except for Japt and a bit of Jelly, what would you say 05ab1e is usually good at? Aside from base conversions :P

Hmm, most of the other extreme golfing langs are better at base conversion than 05AB1E, so I wouldn't really call that one of it's greatest strengths

I think it's biggest perk is that it is a very well rounded language

string manipulation I think

Maybe string manipulation

^

That's probably the area it can consistently tie or beat Jelly

Stax is probably better in specific cases, though it's less general than 05AB1E at the moment, since it is a bit newer

Its greatest weakness is matrices.

Or the lack of regex

It's also pretty bad when it comes to anything mathematical beyond basics.

Imaginary numbers sometimes work, but the commands often don't work on them.

Doing an implementation of an equation often requires swap more than it should.

Yeah, you can create imaginary numbers (sometimes), but then they are strings and can't be manipulated with math

I can agree with that :)

I pretty much assume that I can't do a problem (easily) in 05AB1E if it's older than 1 month and Emigna/Adnan/Others haven't dominated it.

There was one recent challenge I tried in 05AB1E that I had to work on to tie Java (I didn't post that one)

@Emigna Yep. Me too. I've been beat by Java once and only posted it because I was like 95% sure there was no better way.

@Emigna You should post those in here if you don't post them to main XD. Those are the types of answers that could reveal needed commands :P

I didn't post it because I was gonna get back to it later and try to improve, but I forgot it and misplaced the code

Ahhhhh

And I don't remember what the challenge was

I doubt 05Ab1E can do the CR/LF challenge well, but it can definitely beat Java :D

A good example of a challenge that 05AB1E likely gets beaten by a lot of golfing langs is Mutually attacking Queens

I know I made a solution for it, but I don't remember where/on what computer I did it

I should start posting answers when I do them and continue golfing them later...

We need to start posting questions in this chat that we "skipped over" because it looked hard or impossible in 05AB1E :)

@Emigna I wouldn't be against you spamming incomplete answers in here.

Your answers are basically the "how-to" guide for 05AB1E.