Root Access

12:31 AM

gizmodo.com/…

Some sort of Linux OS I presume. What distro? Is it set to route or to NAT? Has the firewall been set up to pass DNS traffic? What's the actual device connected to the internet and does it have a static route setup?

bwDraco

Not much of that article is news to me, but just wondering if you're interested.

> You put a gun to your head, pull the trigger, and find out four years later if you blew your brains out.

Rodrigo Silva

12:58 AM

Yes, I'm using Ubuntu 17.04, it's set to route with a static route. Hm, I haven't checked the firewall, I assumed it wouldn't interfere

The device connected to the internet is the computer internal wifi card

Bob

> fluttering its feathers and bragging about its plans

It feels like they're always doing that

Though that seems to have toned down a bit recently

bwDraco

Yeah. AMD was hyping Ryzen insanely.

Bob

My build-before-current was in 2011

I remember the Bulldozer hype back then. They were quiet for a while after.

Hopefully they can keep it going this time.

Well, not the hype. But the products.

@bwDraco Also, there's some amusing irony there... AMD pulled ahead because Intel flopped Pentium 4, which was going for high clock speed. Then AMD made the same mistake with Bulldozer?

bwDraco

Yup. Ryzen 2nd Gen is a solid refresh and a minor die shrink with notable improvements in all kinds of workloads but it's not enough.

@Bob Yup.

Bob

> Beyond the instruction set, CPUs are actually pretty simple and just made up of a few key components

...oof. Nooooooooooooooooooooope.

> So Intel has what it calls Front Side Bus, and until Zen, AMD used tech called HyperTransport.

bwDraco

1:10 AM

The writing quality is suspect.

Bob

*completely ignores DMI and QPI, cause why not?*

bwDraco

I went through the article. It's interesting but there are key technical inaccuracies.

Bob

seriously

if you're writing an article in 2018 about CPUs and you talk about FSB in a comparison to a 2017 CPU (Zen)

you're doing something very very wrong

FSB's successor is literally older than Bulldozer

> But in the early 2000s, Intel brought a CPU to market with a clockrate of 3GHz, and since then nearly all CPUs have hovered around that clockrate.

Oh? You mean the Pentium 4 flop? And nearly all CPUs obviously include the Athlons and Phenoms that beat it while at ~2 GHz?

@bwDraco I swear it gets worse as it goes

Like, it had the potential to be a great article

but as you read it just slowly slips into "waiiiit a sec" territory

bwDraco

Looking at the hourly charts from our utility company (thanks to smart metering)... wow. Astaroth sure is a power hog.

Journeyman Geek

2:35 AM

@Bob lol. The Pentium M beat it.

Rodrigo Silva

Just as a follow up, I ended up setting up a local DNS server on my computer and setting the openwrt router's DNS server as such. It works! :D

Journeyman Geek

Oo. Yay but that's odd

Rodrigo Silva

Mhm, yeah. I have no idea what was happening, probably something I misconfigured with NAT?

Since only DNS packets weren't going through

That's my guess

Bob

5:57 AM

:O

documentation is broken :(

docs.microsoft.com/en-us/dotnet/api/…

> Liquid error: Exception of type 'System.OutOfMemoryException' was thrown.

Journeyman Geek

works for me.

"liquid error" someone poured a drink on it?

Bob

@JourneymanGeek works how?

screenshot?

Journeyman Geek

that's a bit shit

@Bob imgur.com/a/yzjSwUQ

Bob

O_O

Michael Frank

8:42 AM

"It works for me, and just to prove it here's the entire website."

Burgi

morning

Journeyman Geek

@MichaelFrank so he can look up what he needs.

gee

also @Bob wasn't very clear what he wanted a screenshot of ;p

Burgi

@JourneymanGeek how is the job going?

Journeyman Geek

alright.

Its kinda boringish except when things go horribly wrong

Burgi

do they go wrong often?

btw have you seen the trailer for this?

Crazy Rich Asians (film)

Crazy Rich Asians is an upcoming American romantic comedy film based on Kevin Kwan's novel of the same name. Produced by Nina Jacobson and Brad Simpson of Color Force, it is being directed by Jon M. Chu. It will be distributed worldwide by Warner Bros. Pictures and is set for release on August 17, 2018. The film stars Constance Wu, Henry Golding, Gemma Chan, Lisa Lu, Awkwafina, Ken Jeong, and Michelle Yeoh. == Premise == Based on the novel by Kevin Kwan, Crazy Rich Asians centers on American-born Chinese economics professor Rachel Chu, who accompanies her boyfriend to Singapore for his best friend...

Journeyman Geek

8:57 AM

nope

heard about it tho

djsmiley2k

9:09 AM

@RodrigoSilva dns requesdtys are weird

udp

generally, and also they come back to you, on the same port they went out on, sometimes

djsmiley2k

9:30 AM

@Burgi @JourneymanGeek entertain me, maybe?

You met your neice/nephew yet @Burgi ?

Bob

9:44 AM

@JourneymanGeek actually I just wanted to prove it was(n't) working :P

but thanks

Journeyman Geek

lol

WHICH I DID!

Overdramatically

djsmiley2k

10:08 AM

:O

Burgi

10:29 AM

@djsmiley2k no my sister is still too ill for visitors

djsmiley2k

:/.

Sorry to hear that :<

djsmiley2k

12:19 PM

how's everyones monday?

Journeyman Geek

Almost over. Just need a bus :p

djsmiley2k

Damn your ability to live in teh future!

Seth

12:36 PM

Things planned, things happened, things are still planned for a later date. Guessing games with coworkers about issues suck.

Journeyman Geek

Hah

Or anyone

Seth

1:03 PM

It can be fun sometimes if you're doing a review for a solved issue and it was that stupid unbelievable corner case.

In this case it was an ongoing issue and not a fun case so without the fun it's just tedious. But well such is work.

djsmiley2k

1:26 PM

@Seth yes./

djsmiley2k

1:37 PM

>Current Band = LTE
Current RSSI = -54 dBm
Current RSRP = -89 dBm
Current RSRQ = -14 dB
Current SNR = 1.8 dB

Is it me, or is that SNR fooked?

allquixotic

@djsmiley2k the rest are negative and that's positive?

the transmitter must be SHOUTING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

@JourneymanGeek Louis Rossmann can fix that error :D

djsmiley2k

it's a ratio, not a fixed point value

tho how it came up with 1.8 I don't know D:L

allquixotic

"It's a ratio" sounds like a song from a pre-algebra class

"Hi, I'm Horatio the ratio!"

"I'm a ratio!"

pbs.org/horatio/educators/act08.html

djsmiley2k

D:

Journeyman Geek

2:13 PM

ugh

I got dragged into a twitter arguement

HAH! WIN!

@JourneymanGeek @rashiq @ranreichman @aprilwensel @real_ate @triketora @StackOverflow Believe me, i hear that. If I didn't have a firm conviction that the core of what SE (and SO) is about is a powerful force for good, I wouldn't be fighting so hard to help improve it. It's changed millions of lives for the better, no question.

Tweeted by anildash on April 30, 2018 at 2:04 PM in reply to JourneymanGeek

cough "SE (and SO) "

(and apparently chat's what it takes to get me to dive into this ._. YOU GUYS!)

allquixotic

2

Q: Help understand why question closed for being too broad and what to do about it

My Question was closed due to it allegedly being too broad. Is it because my question can have multiple correct answers? Is it because I did not specify which part NTLM I am interested in? Please help me understand why it was considered so. Also I am not able to edit or comment to fix the quest...

support

I think maybe that question isn't too broad...?

Journeyman Geek

@allquixotic I had a word with a security mod over the migration cause I felt it was pretty poor. Its unclear what he's actually trying to do?

it might or might not potentially be an XY problem

allquixotic

he's probably trying to capture NTLM packets to find out how to hax0r it

so he wants to generate some of his own

Bob

@JourneymanGeek I found it very clear, actually.

Pretty much what @allquixotic said.

XKCD

The Python environmental protection agency wants to seal it in a cement chamber, with pictoral messages to future civilizations warning them about the danger of using sudo to install random Python packages.

allquixotic

2:24 PM

maybe the better question would be "What are the prerequisites for an application to perform NTLMv2?" or maybe ask about a specific application

Journeyman Geek

hmm

allquixotic

Step 1: Find application that advertises it supports NTLMv2 authentication
Step 2: Figure out how to configure that application to do NTLMv2

Journeyman Geek

Could get him to reask? maybe give him some pointers?

Bob

@allquixotic Nah, I think, if anything, it should only be a slight rewording: "How can I generate legitimate NTLM traffic from Windows for my packet capture?"

Your proposed wording reads like an XY.

Journeyman Geek

can you guys edit it into shape?

allquixotic

2:25 PM

@Bob hm, so you're saying making the question very explicit about what his goal is improves the question

Bob

Yes.

Journeyman Geek

I mean, I'm going to look slightly stupid but I can live with that

oh, I mean, does it let you edit it?

Bob

If you start sidetracking by asking about prerequisites for "some application", that's almost the definition of an XY problem.

I see nothing wrong about a question about getting Windows to generate NTLM traffic, personally.

Sure, it could have multiple answers. But that in itself isn't really a problem.

allquixotic

ok, but the way I would solve his problem if I were trying to do this myself is to google "apps that support ntlmv2", find an open source app that does ntlmv2, set up the server, and read the docs about what it needs, then find "Oh, it needs an AD server" (or whatever) and then configure that

Bob

@allquixotic 'cept NTLM is not done by any "app".

It's done by Windows.

allquixotic

2:27 PM

and then go into its config file and set up the correct parameters for that

@Bob yeah, but apps need to call those Windows APIs to generate the NTLM handshake, don't they? maybe I'm thinking of Kerberos/SPNEGO but you can do it even in Java with Waffle and they just use JNA to call the Windows APIs that (AFAIR) hit the AD and do all that TGT blah blah blah to securely get an NTLMv2 token for the client

Bob

@allquixotic oh god this is giving me Waffle flashbacks

allquixotic

Windows does the legwork but apps call those APIs to initiate the protocol

Bob

@allquixotic IIRC the NTLM part is completely abstracted away

allquixotic

the client web browser gets an Authenticate: cookie basically prompting it to do the tango, and if the web browser is configured properly (or is Chrome or IE and the system is on a domain) it'll do Kerberos

yeah, the NTLM underpinnings aren't even a required part of the Kerberos/SPNEGO dance

it's just one way of doing it

so if we showed him how to do Kerberos, he'd have to decode the NTLMv2 bits within that

Bob

You request "authentication" (if we're talking web browsers & servers)

allquixotic

2:30 PM

not sure about how to do native NTLMv2 without all that wrapping

Bob

how authentication occurs is not under control of the user-mode application

hm... unless I'm misremembering

actually I think there's two ways about this

you either request auth from the OS, which does abstract this away

allquixotic

I think maybe certain versions of Windows might do truly native NTLMv2 for SMB on a LAN when both the shared drive and the local system are on the same AD

Bob

or you directly auth against an AD, which lets you choose the method

allquixotic

@Bob the other way is to configure the KDC, etc. which is to sort of implement Kerberos on the client and server

yeah

Bob

I've done the latter for a password recovery webapp before (via .NET abstractions for AD interaction)

allquixotic

2:32 PM

if you don't have Windows do it then you have to provide all sorts of parameters to set up the authentication

but the latter way is basically a platform-independent Kerberos auth

Bob

@allquixotic I think as soon as you get into Kerberos territory you've left NTLM(v2)

Hm.

allquixotic

oh, I was thinking NTLMv2 was used under the hood by Kerberos, but now that I think about it, that's not the case

Bob

The easy way of doing this, I think, might be to set up IIS to require authentication

allquixotic

it's that SPNEGO uses either Kerberos or NTLMv2!

Bob

And just hit it with IE or Edge

7

Q: How can I check if my IIS site is using NTLM or Kerberos?

How can I check if my IIS site is using NTLM or Kerberos? And how can I change authentication from Kerberos to NTLM? I'm using IIS 7.5 and I couldn't find any answer to this question, can help me a little?

authentication iis web kerberos ntlm

allquixotic

2:34 PM

6

Q: Can I indicate to clients that SPNEGO is supported but NTLM is not for HTTP requests?

The two WWW-Authenticate additions Microsoft makes use of that I am currently aware of are NTLM Negotiate If Negotiate is sent down from the server, based on a set of conditions Kerberos will be used Intranet Zone Accessing the server using a Hostname rather then IP Integrated Windows Authe...

kerberos ntlm spnego negotiate www-authenticate

so yeah

Bob

I think SPNEGO does go a bit away from a direct NTLMv2 auth though

allquixotic

it encapsulates it in HTTP headers AFAIK

Bob

leitchronicle.wordpress.com/2012/07/24/…

@allquixotic IIRC NTLMv2 is used for all SMB (even in non-AD)?

hm, no, there's this KILE thing

msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc669093.aspx

which has an NTLMv2 fallback ... which is SPNEGO anyway. blech.

allquixotic

@Bob blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/openspecification/2017/05/26/…

Bob

@allquixotic lol I literally opened that page a second ago

allquixotic

2:38 PM

> Despite its weakness, NTLM remains a widely-used authentication mechanism in non-domain environments.

Bob

Ok, KILE is Kerberos

> (e.g. Kerberos [MS-KILE], NTLM [MS-NLMP])

allquixotic

I bet if he spun up a Windows Server 2003 (with or without R2) VM and set up a SMB drive it would do NTLMv2 :P

Bob

@allquixotic or just another client OS

allquixotic

apparently NTLMSSP is different from raw NTLM

Bob

5

Q: Kerberos Authentication for workstations not on domain

I have a base understanding of how Kerberos works in an Active Directory environment and the methods it uses to authenticate users and workstations onto the network, but my question is.. since Kerberos relies on issuing a security token that the end user then uses to access network resources, how...

active-directory domain authentication kerberos authorization

ooh

allquixotic

2:39 PM

samba.org/samba/history/samba-4.5.0.html

> By default, Samba will only allow NTLMv2 via NTLMSSP now,
as we have the following default "lanman auth = no",
"ntlm auth = no" and "raw NTLMv2 auth = no".

Bob

so if you're logged in to a local account (or on a machine not on the domain), no Kerberos for you. So you get a password prompt ... which does NTLM! :D

Easy solution then. In fact, I think you can mimic it locally.

allquixotic

you can probably do it platform-independently by downloading samba (which I think also exists for Windows) and configure the files accordingly

Bob

1. Share folder from one user
2. From another user, access the local computer via network `\\computername`
3. Hit the share from the first user

If the second user was not explicitly given permission, they should get a password prompt

...but probably no NTLM in that case, probably fully local. idk.

allquixotic

could sniff loopback to see? :P

Bob

@allquixotic If the goal is to capture a "real" session, avoiding third-party implementations might be desired

allquixotic

2:42 PM

he's already spun up a VM anyway

@DavidPostill, I read about NTLM for more then a day and I tried creating virtual machines with windows 10 and doing RDP and file sharing from one machine to another. To no avail. — kroiz 56 mins ago

Bob

@allquixotic Hmmmmmmmmmmm.

I wonder what's going on then.

allquixotic

what protocol would RDP or file sharing from machine to machine use if not NTLMv2, assuming they're not on the same domain?

Bob

Oh, about that. @DavidPostill ... Personally, I find "If you perform some reading on NTLM it will answer your questions." rather condescending.

@allquixotic Maybe they're not realising captured packets include the wrapping protocol?

Hm. Maybe some clarification is needed, specifically, what NTLM auth type they're tryingto capture.

RDP NLA uses CredSSP which is yet another protocol wrapping SPNEGO...

allquixotic

yeah... also, I wonder if "NTLMv1" and "raw NTLM" are the same thing, and "NTLMSSP" and "NTLMv2" are the same thing :S

Bob

msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc226769.aspx

allquixotic

2:48 PM

@Bob and non-NLA doesn't do any auth at all on the wire, right? you just type your password into the GUI which is happily keylogged by the server ;)

Bob

> The CredSSP Protocol is a composite protocol that relies on other standards-based security protocols. It first uses the Transport Layer Security (TLS) Protocol to establish an encrypted channel between the CredSSP client and the CredSSP server.

Ouch.

If it's TLS-wrapped from the start, Wireshark isn't gonna be able to capture anything meaningful

allquixotic

unless his wireshark MITMs the server's TLS cert

which he can totally do on his own box

Bob

@allquixotic iirc that needs special setup and probably breaks the client

> Wireshark alone does not do that, it can only watch the traffic if you already have knowledge of the keys/certificates in order for it to decrypt the traffic in the TLS connection.

allquixotic

yeah, will have to put the self-signed cert of the proxy on his client too

oh wait, proxies only work for HTTP don't they

idek then

Bob

lol

allquixotic

2:50 PM

stunnel? :S

Bob

I think the key here is every protocol should be encrypted

Which makes capturing it hard

allquixotic

unless you use sufficiently antiquated (or FOSS-configurable) software to convince it to do "raw" NTLM

Bob

So they either want NTLMv1, which means they need to make it fall back, or they need to break the encryption to see NTLMv2. I think.

And just for the record, none of this is at all obvious, and I've spent the last half an hour on Google. So... "some reading on NTLM" ain't gonna help much

@allquixotic At least up to Win7 you can force NTLMv1 via group policy

maybe in Win10 too docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/security/threat-protection/…

allquixotic

yeah, the two of us are having trouble figuring this out together :P

Bob

> Client devices use NTLMv2 authentication, and they use NTLMv2 session security if the server supports it.

ooooooooooh

So maybe it's possible to disable the session security (encryption?) and get "raw" NTLMv2

or does that mean NTLMv2 is only supported with SSP?

gah, conflicting info

Journeyman Geek

2:57 PM

chuckles

Bob

docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/security/threat-protection/…

Journeyman Geek

It appears the easiest way to win an argument with geeks is to set them a challenge and sneak off.

Tweeted by JourneymanGeek on April 30, 2018 at 2:30 PM

Bob

curl.haxx.se/rfc/ntlm.html

cool, the reverse-engineered protocol

hm, no, SSP should still be clearly identifiable as NTLM

allquixotic

@Bob NTLMSSP

Session Security Protocol

Bob

@allquixotic My best guess right now (not having tried myself, cause cbf) is that it's the parent procotol (completely unrelated to NTLM) that's doing the encryption in all cases

> NTLMSSP (NTLM Security Support Provider)

allquixotic

3:04 PM

@Bob except for the earliest services using NTLMv1, which probably were very insecure

@Bob oh.

Bob

@allquixotic Sooo. Maybe SMBv1?

RDP NLA was introduced with Vista, so that's too new

allquixotic

3:16 PM

he'd probably have to go back to WinXP RTM or an early service pack of Win2k

it wouldn't surprise me if XP SP3 already fixed the worst of the lol issues with NTLM by using SSP

since XP released with so many security flaws with so much visibility that MSFT panicked and spent like 2-3 years trying to make it as secure as possible

bwDraco

So... on power management and energy usage.

The last few days of gaming on my desktop—and sky-high room temperatures—has led to a stark realization that combined with HVAC power consumption, Astaroth could be adding well over 1 kW of power usage during the summer months.

Any hints, besides not using the desktop for less demanding purposes whenever possible and limiting graphics card power, on reducing energy usage over the summer?

Bob

@allquixotic pre-SP2 might do it. iirc SP2 was the big security changes

bwDraco

(my netbook came back from repairs and is used for lighter tasks as appropriate)

Bob

*shrug*

under load I only use maybe 400W...

less, even. 340W incl. display on a full GPU + CPU burn

1 kW is ... incredibly high

bwDraco

450-500W is typical gaming power, after accounting for the displays.

Bob

3:25 PM

heck, even 450W sounds very high to me

what was your CPU's TDP?

oh wait, you had the 1080 Ti, right?

bwDraco

@Bob I've seen power usage of about 400-420W from the wall during gaming, and that's with Assassin's Creed Origins. Some games, including FFXV, can require more power from the GPU, according to its internal power measurements (via GPU-Z).

@Bob Reference GTX 1080 Ti does 250W. The FTW3 cards have a nominal TDP of 280W.

Bob

ok, that would account for the ~70W difference

I'm on the 1080

bwDraco

The 1 kW figure is with the added HVAC load.

Bob

... it's 9 deg C in NYC

bwDraco

Not today, but in the summer, when temperatures can hit 30 C or higher.

Bob

3:28 PM

oh

bwDraco

(to use measurements that are familiar to you, because Americans are a minority in this room :P)

Bob

I was wondeirng what you needed A/C for cause it's 13 deg C here and I'm still cold :P

bwDraco

I've thought about things like free cooling at night, something I've traditionally done at the old house, where the studio I lived in had no air conditioning.

(that old house had only central heating)

Bob

A/C, central heating...

I have a dinky little tower fan :P

djsmiley2k

3:43 PM

@bwDraco how about... go outside.

30C isn't the american way of saying things, the number isnt' big enough

they'd say 120F! or something silly

wait, maybe I misread that thing haha

Anyway. Yeah, go outside, where it's cooler

and if it's not.... move. D:

bwDraco

Well... I used to do free cooling. I ran a window fan overnight, controlled by a timer so that it would stop before the temperatures went back up.

(this is sometimes called night purging)

user226528

4:06 PM

Hey, guys. :)

user226528

I have a question: Do mobile phones have device drivers?

user226528

Let me clarify: Mobile phones run operating system and have a limited number of devices, like speakers, Bluetooth, screen, and network interface. Do these mobile operating systems use drivers?

Journeyman Geek

yes, but built into the kernel

so you typically wouldn't install it as a package

bwDraco

4:25 PM

@JourneymanGeek They're typically built into the system image ("ROM"). You generally don't need to worry about them unless you're using custom ROMs, and even then, you just update the whole package and not individual drivers.

bertieb

5:43 PM

@JourneymanGeek I don't remember what my question was but that was indeed an interesting read, thanks

I was a bit confused as to why it meandered into talking about not doing Documentation or Teams for a bit

I guess SE is doing the Google thing of ~~taking popular services behind the barn with a shotgun~~ trimming away non-core excess

Wait WHAT

Any sustained chat flag causes a 30 minute ban?!

djsmiley2k

@bertieb bans are greeeeeeat

all you've gotta do, is flag someone

wait a bit

if it didn't work, flag em again

eventually enough people go 'yah that must be offensive some how!'

bertieb

My avatar may be smiling, but my face... isn't

I mean

djsmiley2k

<<<<

bertieb

Why wouldn't there be a middle ground

Like, just, why

djsmiley2k

you mean like once a flag is validated, grab a mod to review?

because chat is hated

it's not cared about, or for.

bertieb

5:54 PM

"Sorry Timmy, you pulled little Suzie's hair, that's not a nice thing to do." loads gun

Yes but still

djsmiley2k

I mean, I also don't understand having every single room not allow under 10 rep users

bertieb

I suppose there's something to be said about something something something timing out someone who is seen as problematic by >10k without involving a mod

djsmiley2k

or is it 100 rep?

/me shrugs

@bertieb I get to validate flags now

I'm not 10k on any site

Hell, I got 1.5~k simply by signing up to sites!

maybe more than that, I don't remember how many sites there are

Go to IPS, answer one question, get 100 rep

now sign upto every site

suddenly you're highter than 80% of all visitors, and so you have powaaaaaaaaaar

bertieb

Heh

101 rep everywhere

Still, doesn't get you that far. Upvote/downvote/comment?

allquixotic

6:32 PM

1

A: Maximal Win Score Distribution

The usual rule here is to ask one question per post. I'll explain how to formalize this problem and suggest an efficient algorithm for solving the problem. Here is a formalization of the problem: Given: arrays $A[1..n]$, $B[1..n]$ Goal: find a permutation of $A$, call it $A'$, that maximizes th...

@Bob :O

bwDraco

So... more fan tuning. Turns out a substantial portion of system noise under load is caused by the liquid cooler radiator fans, exhausting heat from both the processor and the graphics card. I'm experimenting with running the rear case fan faster to see if this will reduce the burden on the radiator fans. That case fan is much quieter and has little in the way of obstructions impeding airflow.

It does, however, raise the noise baseline measurably.

bertieb

So, something something something, Valve have to do refunds in Aus?

imgur.com/gallery/wF6JWdg

(SFW but profanity warning)

Michael Frank

6:47 PM

@allquixotic interesting question!

bwDraco

The radiator should not be handling the lion's share of the system's heat.

djsmiley2k

lol yeah

we hajve good laws in the UK too

lol america, hahahaa

we got sony to back down

Michael

@bertieb Steam will refund a game just for about any reason, as long as you submit the refund request within 2 weeks of purchase. I've done it a bunch of times.

bertieb

@Michael I thought it was < 2 hours of gameplay; no ifs ands or buts

Michael

You can say "it's not fun" and they'll refund it, as long as you haven't played more than like 2 hours or something.

Something like that.

bertieb

6:52 PM

Aye

djsmiley2k

what if a patch breaks it?

what if it's only broken at 3 hours of gameplay?

Michael

Dunno never happened to me.

Michael Frank

yea I don’t think I’ve ever bought a game I couldn’t play due to a bug

Oh, Black Ops 1 was terribly buggy on PC at launch.

bertieb

@djsmiley2k I think you can refer them to the Aussie case

> Yes backsies!

djsmiley2k

what the fux

i just went to cut ,my pizza

anmd the plate splits in half

Michael Frank

6:57 PM

@djsmiley2k too stronk

bertieb

@djsmiley2k Instructions unclear, cut pizza in spiral

DavidPostill

7:37 PM

Well if he had read https://superuser.com/help/how-to-ask:
> Have you thoroughly searched for an answer before asking your question? Sharing your research helps everyone. Tell us what you found and why it didn’t meet your needs. This demonstrates that you’ve taken the time to try to help yourself, it saves us from reiterating obvious answers, and above all, it helps you get a more specific and relevant answer!

Searching for "What is NTLM" > msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/…; which already answers 1 of his 3 questions. I stand by my close reason "too broad".

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