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04:00 - 12:0012:00 - 18:00

4:24 AM
@JohnRennie sir are you there?
 
Morning :-)
 
@JohnRennie sir ,a news was published about neutrinos
 
Yes?
 
86
Q: Superluminal neutrinos

Sklivvz I was quite surprised to read this all over the news today: Elusive, nearly massive subatomic particles called neutrinos appear to travel just faster than light, a team of physicists in Europe reports. If so, the observation would wreck Einstein's theory of special relativity, which demands...

There is a good discussion of this in the above question. It turned out to be due to a loose cable.
 
@JohnRennie sir according to string theory, how can an object travel through another dimension of space
 
 
1 hour later…
5:48 AM
@JohnRennie Do electric field lines literally "bend" because of other field lines
 
Field lines are a convenient fiction. They aren't real.
 
@JohnRennie I know that but do they bend or not?
 
It's a meaningless question.
The field line just shows the direction of the force ona test charge.
 
@JohnRennie Okay let me give more context:
An infinite line charge is made up of many point charges right?
 
Yes ...
 
5:51 AM
And field lines from point charge come radially outwards in all direction
But:
My teacher, yesterday said:
Field due to line charges are only radially outwards because of the fact that: though the fields start in radially outward in all direction they ultimately become straight due to bending due to the presence of other point charges's field lines
@JohnRennie If you are unable to understand this^, I can show you what he meant through a diagram
 
field lines from an isolated point charge come radially outwards in all direction
Consider two point charges, spaced apart by some distance $d$ - it doesn't matter what the value of $d$ is.
Because the field has a $1/r^2$ dependence if we get close enough to one of the charges its field becomes arbitrarily bigger than the field from the other charge.
So if we get close enough to one of the charges it behaves as if it is isolated and its field lines emerge radially.
How close we have to get before the charge behaves as if it is isolated depends on how big the spacing between the charges $d$ is. If $d$ is very small then we need to get very, very close to the charge before it is (approximately) isolated. OK so far?
 
@JohnRennie despite the presence of other charge?
 
@Abcd well $1/r^2 \to \infty$ as $r \to 0$ and $\infty$ is infinitely bigger than any finite field.
 
@JohnRennie okay
 
So in the limit of $r \to 0$ the charge behaves as if it is isolated.
But you can't use this argument if you're imagining building up a line charge from a set of point charges.
Because by definition to build up the line charge the spacing between the point charges has to go to zero as well.
 
6:02 AM
@JohnRennie then?
 
So it's not useful to imagine the field lines for a line charge as originating from a set of infinitely many point charges.
You end up with a silly situation of infinitely small charges spaced an infinitely small distance apart.
 
So what are we supposed to do then?
 
To work out the field lines from a line charge?
 
@JohnRennie yes
 
Just calculate the field using Maxwell's equations or Gauss' law or whatever method is easiest. Then the field lines are just the direction of $\mathbf E$.
For a line charge they are radially outwards (or inwards) normal to the line charge
 
6:06 AM
@JohnRennie why? Can you prove it?
 
Computing the field of an infinite line charge is straightforward. Haven't you done that already?
Isn't it $\frac{k\lambda}{|r|}\hat{r}$
Where $\lambda$ is the linear charge density.
And we're using cylindrical polar coordinates
 
@JohnRennie I have, but my teacher's weird description of electric field from line charge has confused me a bit
@JohnRennie its $2k\lambda /r$
 
Oops :-) Well it's seven a.m. here and I'm still half asleep :-)
 
Okay
@JohnRennie what would be happening later, when we are a little away from the line charge i.e. $ r $ does not $\to 0$
 
@Abcd You mean if we have a line of point charges at some finite separation?
 
6:15 AM
@JohnRennie I want to know about the field due to it at some finite separation
Like if $r\to 0$
You said that
The points will behave like points and show radially outwards field in all directions
But if r is not tending to 0, why is this behaviour not shown
 
@Abcd Yes, very near the charges that's true. But as soon as the field from the other charges becomes significant the field lines will curve towards the normal to the line.
I can have a go at drawing this if you want
 
@JohnRennie why does it curve? I dont get that
 
The total field is just the sum of the fields from all the charges
When you compute the field then calculate the direction of $\mathbf E$ to get the field lines you'll find they aren't straight lines.
 
@JohnRennie Okay, please show
 
That seems ... well ... obvious to me ...
 
6:24 AM
Ok
 
That's my attempt to draw field lines for an array of point charges
 
@JohnRennie Why are they curving?
 
The field lines just show the direction of $\mathbf E$. Yes?
They show the direction of the force on a test charge
 
@JohnRennie Got it thanks.
@JohnRennie One more problem?
 
Yes?
 
6:30 AM
w/ means : with
@JohnRennie Using Gauss' Law
 
So it's a finite square plate?
 
@JohnRennie Not square, rectangle with vertical = l and width = 2l, and line charge is infinite
 
Oh, wait. Is it the flux through the plate from a line charge?
 
Yes
 
Ah, OK. I don't think Gauss' law will help you here.
I think you just have to calculate the field at the plate and crunch through the integral.
 
6:34 AM
@JohnRennie No My teacher did it using Gauss Law, I didn't quite understand it. Let me show you how he did it:
 
Ah, I bet I know what he did :-)
 
Oh great :)
 
If you compute the solid angle subtended by the plate you can calculate the flux that way.
 
 
Yes! :-)
 
6:36 AM
@JohnRennie Have you done such a problem before ?
 
@Abcd no
Well, I probably have in my youth, but I don't (consciously) remember it.
 
@JohnRennie Wow, then you are so intelligent
 
@Abcd no, I've just had decades of practice :-)
In 30 years students will be telling you you're amazingly intelligent as well! :-)
 
@JohnRennie Please explain this method.
 
@Abcd OK, the total flux is given by Gauss' law. We consider a cylinder centred on the line charge, then the flux though the surface of the cylinder is strightforward to calculate. yes?
 
6:39 AM
@JohnRennie Yes
 
Imagine the line charge was a light source and the cylinder is a screen. If you have a plate inside the cylinder it will cast a shadow on the cylinder. Yes?
 
@JohnRennie yes
 
This is looking along the line charge, so we're looking at the plate edge on
The field lines travel radially outwards from the line charge, so the flux through the plate must be the same as the flux through the shadow.
So if we calculate the flux through the part of the cylinder covered by the shadow that must be the same as the flux through the plate.
 
@JohnRennie yes
 
And calculating the flux through the shadow is easy. If the angle subtended by the shadow is $\theta$ then the fraction of the total flux going through the shadow is just $\theta/2\pi$.
They've chosen the plate dimensions to make the calculation easy because $\tan\theta = \sqrt{3}$ so $\theta = 60º$
 
6:59 AM
@JohnRennie Multiplied by 2l right?
@JohnRennie yes
 
@Abcd yes
Calculate the flux through a part of the cylinder of length $2\ell$, then multiply by $\theta/2\pi$ to get the flux through the shadow. And that's the flux through the plate.
 
@JohnRennie Total flux due to line charge is $\lambda /(2\pi \epsilon_o r)$
here $r= 2l $
FLux due to that part of cylinder is:
 
@Abcd the radius of the cylinder is $r^2 = \ell^2 + (\sqrt{3}\ell)^2$
 
@JohnRennie I have written the right thing too...
 
@JohnRennie I see the mathjax with the $ $ and the \'s. I don't see the output that it is supposed to generate. Do you see the same too?
 
7:09 AM
$\dfrac{\lambda}{4\pi \epsilon_o l}\times\frac {1}{3}$
 
@Abcd h yes, it is $2\ell$
I have to work now so I'll have to leave this with you.
 
@JohnRennie Okay thanks.
I think there's an error, whenever you are free please see
The line charge is kept above the edge of the plate
Not above the middle of the plate...
Thats why I get the wrong answer
 
@Abcd that's what I drew ...
And that subtends an angle of $\pi/3$
The length of the plate is $2\ell$ so we want the flux through a length $2\ell$ of the cylinder, and by Gauss' law that is: $$ \Phi = \frac{Q}{\epsilon_0} = \frac{2\ell\lambda}{\epsilon_0} $$
And the shadow covers $1/6$ of the cylinder so the flux through the shadow is: $$ \Phi = \frac{\ell\lambda}{3\epsilon_0} $$
 
7:29 AM
@JohnRennie Does mathjax appear in chat? Cause it surely isn't appearing in mine?
 
@SmarthBansal you need to manually enable MathJax
 
I'll take a look :) Thanks!
 
8
A: How can I enable MathJax in chat?

mhchemUpdate 2017-05-01 The MathJax CDN retired and the javascript-URL idea is not so easy any more, because of browser security. (Chrome stips away any leading javascript: when pasting into the URL line. SE modified the javascript: link so that it does not work.) So here is my take. I modified the ...

@JohnRennie Answer is $\dfrac{\lambda l}{6 \epsilon_o}$
 
@JohnRennie I think you meant $\theta = 30^0$. @Abcd That gives you right answer.
 
@SmarthBansal oh yeah, thanks
@SmarthBansal Are you an IITian
 
7:44 AM
@Abcd I wish I were
 
@SmarthBansal Are you preparing for JEE
 
@Abcd Sure
 
@SmarthBansal You are in 12th?
@SmarthBansal what do you mean by "will self destruct"
 
You see what I did there :P
 
@SmarthBansal jee this year?
 
7:50 AM
gtg syl
 
8:02 AM
Btw thanks @JR for teaching me that great method
JEE2018 aspirants can try this question from AITS:
Find the time period of a satellite of mass m orbiting a pipe shaped planet of infinite length, radius R. The radius of the orbit of the satellite is r.
The surface mass density of the planet is $\sigma$
@GaurangTandon @samjoe^
 
The planet is in effect a line charge, so the gravitational force will be proportional to 1/r instead of 1/r^2.
@Abcd ah, my diagram is wrong. Yes, as Smarth Bansal says the angle is 30° not 60° so you divide by 12 not 6.
 
8:28 AM
@Abcd it was in our resonance paper too :P
 
4 hours ago, by Akash. B
@JohnRennie sir according to string theory, how can an object travel through another dimension of space
@JohnRennie sir ^^
 
yesterday, by John Rennie
@Akash.B I don't really have time for this very general sort of question. I'm happy to help with JEE questions, but not with more general ones.
 
@JohnRennie sir, is it possible for photons travel through other dimension?
through other dimension of space
 
@JohnRennie I have a doubt
 
@Abhinav Yes?
 
8:41 AM
@JohnRennie hmm
 
Calculate the energy released when 1000 small water droplets each of same radius $/10^-7m$ coalesce to form one large drop.The surface tension of water is 7X$10^-2$N/m
How does surface tension play a role here
 
Surface tension exists because a water-air surface has an energy associated with it.
In fact the surface tension is just the energy per unit area of the surface
 
Yeah.There's a formulae that T=dW/dA but I am trouble understanding it
 
So what is happening in this question is that the total air-water surface area is changing as the droplets merge, and that means the energy of the surface is changing as well.
 
Okay.Makes sense
 
8:45 AM
@Abhinav would you like me to explain that formula?
 
It will be awesome sir
 
OK, let me draw a diagram ...
@Abhinav consider a line in the surface of length $h$. What we're going to do is pull this line a small distance $dx$ to create a new patch of surface. OK so far?
 
yes
 
The surface tension, $\gamma$, is a force per unit length so to get the total force on our line of length $h$ we mutiply $\gamma$ by $h$ so:
$$ F = \gamma h $$
 
@JohnRennie sir?
 
8:51 AM
Now we pull the line a small distance $dx$. That means we do work, and the work is just force times distance. Yes?
 
yep
 
So the work done is $$ dW = \gamma h dx $$
 
and we then substitute the values,right
 
But $h dx$ is just the area of the new bit of surface we have created i.e. $dA = h dx$
 
@Blue hi
 
8:54 AM
So $$ dW = \gamma dA $$ which means $$ \frac{dW}{dA} = \gamma $$
So the surface tension $\gamma$ is just the surface energy per unit area.
@Abhinav does that make sense?
 
Yeah
 
@JohnRennie hmm
 
But sometimeslike in soap bubble case we use 2 surfaces instead of one...Do we have to learn these
 
@Akash.B please stop asking me to answer questions that I have already said I will not answer
2
 
@JohnRennie why?
 
8:57 AM
@Abhinav No, it just means the total energy per unit area of the bubble is $2\gamma$.
 
@JohnRennie okay I understand
 
so there will be two forces acting on the wire in that case....makes sense
Thanks for the help sir
 
The energies per unit area of the outer and inner surfaces are both $\gamma$, making $2\gamma$ in total.
 
@JohnRennie do you mind if I say you a sorry?
 
@Akash.B you don't need to apologise. As and when you start studying for your JEE exam I will be happy to answer your JEE questons.
 
9:01 AM
@JohnRennie sir,can you point out a right direction for me?
I am too young
 
@Akash.B Just follow your school for now buddy.When you reach class 10th then you will know what to do
 
@Abhinav I am in 10 now
 
then you should work to being at the top of your class
 
@skull I am trying
 
Focus for your boards and NTSE
 
Anonymous
9:06 AM
@skull Eh...
 
and if time permits,you can start studying some class 11th chapters especially inorganic chemistry because all you gotta do in them is learn facts
 
your questions are too philosophical
 
@Abhinav I have just finished 9 th class
@skull means too conceptual?
 
Anonymous
@Akash.B You seem to be interested in the exotic topics in physics, which is surely good for motivation. But to pursue physics at a professional level just asking and reading about popular science won't help. You need to go through all the pains of learning physics and mathematics properly.
 
Yes, save them for when you know more mathematics @Akash.B
 
9:09 AM
Year 10 would be age 14?
 
yup
 
Anonymous
@JohnRennie Should be around 15
 
I was around 15 at that time
 
By age 14 you should have a reasonable grasp of maths and be able to understand much of classical physics, at least in principle if not in detail.
I guess you probably wouldn't have studied calculus by that stage....
 
@JohnRennie Nope...Calculus starts at class 11th for us
 
9:11 AM
Same in the UK. You don't start calculus until A levels, which you start at age 16.
 
@Akash.B work ahead to calculus
 
Though being a nerd I started learning calculus myself several years earlier :-)
 
see^
:-)
 
@JohnRennie Lol (^_^)
 
:)
 
9:13 AM
@Akash.B You can always revise 9th class physics too because most of those chapters are gonna repeat in class 12th but try to step up the level a bit
 
I am growing impatient
 
Why?
 
I want to study physics more deeply
 
@JohnRennie Is A level physics syllabus same as jee?
 
Channel all that impatient energy into learning calculus on your own. @Akash.B
 
9:17 AM
@Abhinav the syllabus is basically the same, but there is much less emphasis on problem solving.
 
@skull How can I learn calculus?
 
I suspect most UK A level students would struggle with the JEE exam.
Not because they don't know the material, but because you have to practice problem solving to get good at it.
 
@skull what I should do to study calculus
 
@Akash.B find an introductionary book and get started.
 
@skull can you recommend me a book
 
9:19 AM
Start at page 1 and don't skip anything
 
@JohnRennie Solving more than 1000 questions for one chapter for just one exam is a real drag but yeah that's what jee is XD
 
Do you have a library @Akash.B?
 
@skull yes
 
@Abhinav I don't think it's a good way to learn, and it's outrageously stressful for the students. But that's what you're stuck with. I guess you just have to ride with it.
 
Go there and look in the math section.
 
9:21 AM
@JohnRennie Sadly yes.
 
@Abhinav But you shouldn't underestimate just how good at physics it will make you.
 
@skull good Idea
 
:-)
 
hi people i have a short question on the pauli exclusion principle, is this room appropriate for this?
 
Askaway
 
i often see it written like this $\psi((x1,s1),(x2,s2))=-\psi((x2,s2),(x1,s1))$
so we have two identical electrons for example
but lets say i want to know the amplitude for measuring 2 electrons at position x1, one with its spin up and the other one with spin down
because the particles are indistinguishable, we have to add all the amplitudes that lead to that event, and then square it to get the probability
 
hello
 
according to the formula, $\psi((x1,up),(x1,down))=-\psi((x1,down),(x1,up))$
that means of i add the amplitudes for this measurement, they cancel each other out, which means that i cant find them both at the same place
but their spins are in opposite directions, so shouldnt they be able to occupy the same place in space?
like in the helium atom, where they can both the in the ground state if they have opposite spins
i woukd think that i have to calculate the probability like this:
P(2 electrons at x1, 1 spin up, 1 spin down)=$|\psi((x1,up),(x1,down))+\psi((x1,down),(x1,up))|^2=|\psi((x1,up),(x1,down))-\psi((x1,up),(x1,down))|^2=0$
 
Sid
10:26 AM
@Akash.B get a book. Try to read it yourself. Or pay someone extra money to teach you.
@JohnRennie true. But, for someone who is preparing to pursue engineering so that they won't starve, is all that stress worth it just to be better at specific problem-solving?
 
@Sid It's presumably worth it if it stops you starving :-)
 
Sid
Lol. I guess that's one way to look at it.
 
10:46 AM
was i unclear in my formulation of the question? According to the feynman lectures, whenever there are two indistinguishable ways that lead to the same measurement outcome, we have to add all the amplitudes and then square them to get the probability.
and according to the antisymmetry principle for fermions, the two amplitudes should cancel. But that isnt what we observe for example in helium.
 
11:35 AM
hello
I have a question
In the derivation of wave number
t = 0 and phase constant is also zero
y (x , 0 ) = a sin kx
now this will be the same as a.sin( kx + wavelength)
but in my textbook K -> wavenumber was taken outside
it was like ' y (x, 0 ) = a sin k ( x + wavelength/k)
I can't understand why
** Why is the least wavelength taken as 2 pi ** ?
 
@susanJ do you know that k=2pi/lambda ?
 
well that's the result im trying to arrive at
but during the derivation process , the argument was take x + 2n pi/k
where n could be 1, 2, 3 ...
they took n as 1
 
you can define the wavenumber like this
 
saying it's the least distance
 
you write the wave as Sin(k x)
right now you dont know what k is
 
11:45 AM
hmm ?
 
but you demand that if you go one wavelength further in the wave you want to lad where you started right?
and not only one wavelenght but any whole number
 
well that;s what the book says
 
so Sin(k (x+n lambda)) = Sin(k x)
thats the definition of the wavelength
if you go one wavelength in the direction of the wave, you end up in the same phase as where you started
 
yes i know that
are you sure about the LHS of your eqn?
isn't it sin k (x + lambda/k)
 
yes, you add a whole number multiple of lambda to your position
so you go 1 or 2 or 3 wavelengths further
and you wanna end up at the same point of phase
so if you started at a peak at x=0 you want a peak again at x= n lambda
 
11:50 AM
okay
is lambda always equal to 2 pi
 
no
 
as they chose n = 1 in 2n pi
saying it's the least distance
 
you know that in general Sin(x + 2pi)=Sin(x)
 
yes i do
so for the particular sin function chosen it's so.
 
so if you take Sin(k (x+n lambda)) = Sin(k x) you know that k=2pi/lambda
to make that work
 
11:52 AM
is there a significance of wave number
 
well at first its just a definition
but it can help thinking about waves, especially if you consider waves in more then 1 dimension
for example in 3 dimensions, the wavenumber is nut just a number but a vector
 
k thanks
I'm still muddled about why 2 pi
 
it tells you the direction of travel of the wave and how many phases you get by traveling
 
it seems so silly
@curiosity that's interesting
 
its very nice in electromagnetism for example
maybe you know that light is a electromagnetic wave
and it turns out that the wavevectors of the osscilating electric and magnetic field have a certain relation to each other
and also the wavevector of the fields and the vector of the propagation of the wave
 
11:57 AM
i havent studied that yet
can sin kx be written as sin (kx + 2 pi)
 
yes
 
okay now i get something
 
in fact Sin(x)= Sin(x + n 2pi)
for any n in the whole numbers
you can also consider the dimensions of these quantities
 
04:00 - 12:0012:00 - 18:00

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