TRPG General Chat

Shalvenay

00:50

hey there @NathanTuggy

Nathan Tuggy

01:23

@Shalvenay Yo :)

Chat feed is pretty hilariously sociopathic as customary for RPGs... "Why Kill When You Can Maim?" Why indeed

BESW

Oh, ENWorld. Bless your heart.

BESW

02:01

OUT NOW, the starfaring hack of Blades In The Dark: SCUM & VILLAINY. Take the leap into hyperspace and see if you can escape the iron fist (and blazing laser bolts) of the Galactic Hegemony! Details here: https://plus.google.com/u/0/+SeanNittner/posts/XDTbdBMAoFp

Tweeted by EvilHatOfficial on January 5, 2018 at 4:16 PM

ACuriousMind

02:26

@doppelgreener :groan:

BESW

Garden of Cosmic Speculation

The Garden of Cosmic Speculation is a 30 acre (12 hectare) sculpture garden created by landscape architect and theorist Charles Jencks at his home, Portrack House, near Dumfries in South West Scotland. Like much of Jencks' work, the garden is inspired by modern cosmology. == History == === Features === The garden is inspired by science and mathematics, with sculptures and landscaping on these themes, such as Black Holes and Fractals. The garden is not abundant with plants, but sets mathematical formulae and scientific phenomena in a setting which elegantly combines natural features and artificial...

@ACuriousMind If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.

ACuriousMind

@BESW Indeed I am

(I just recently took a job as a software developer instead of doing science :P )

Shalvenay

hey there @ACuriousMind

ACuriousMind

ahoi

Shalvenay

how're things going?

ACuriousMind

02:38

Quite fine, played cards with some friends and am now less than sober ;)

(it was never my intent to stay sober :P )

BESW

Including one of the most quintessentially @fredhicks characters ever.

Tweeted by rdonoghue on December 22, 2017 at 7:20 PM in reply to rdonoghue

The doggos are ready to roll some dice and clear out those stinky rats! They each have their own unique way of dealing with the situation. Magnus, our wonderful DM, is also enjoying himself in his own way.

Tweeted by dndoggos on January 5, 2018 at 4:29 PM

trogdor

02:58

lol

nitsua60

@NathanTuggy Thanks. Good spot, and it helps the "paper trail" to have a flag kicking it off. (Though, hopefully, that'll also be the end of any paper trail.)

Shalvenay

hey there @nitsua60

nitsua60

@Shalvenay hiya

Shalvenay

@nitsua60 how're thing sgoing?

nitsua60

Alright. Fighting off a cold, so I'm going to hit the sack momentarily. Not often I'm wise enough to do that before 11.

ACuriousMind

03:05

@nitsua60 11 pm or 11 WIS? ;)

nitsua60

@ACuriousMind Yeeeessss =)

[5e poll] sleep works on constructs: yes or no?

Miniman

@nitsua60 Shouldn't, does.

ACuriousMind

@nitsua60 ...if the affected constructs can reasonably enter a state akin to "sleep", then yes, otherwise no

nitsua60

So... embarassing chain of searchs ends at a question that talks about whether constructs are unconscious when taken to 0HP. Then I notice that querent has already laid out the circumstances when constructs might be susceptible to the sleep spell. Then I notice that the querent is me.

5

Q: Can you knock out Animated Armor and/or Zombies?

When making a melee attack against a creature that reduces it to 0 HP the attacker can declare the attack incapacitating rather than lethal: "the attacker can make this choice the instant the damage is dealt. The creature falls unconscious and is stable." (PHB p.198, "Knocking a Creature Out") D...

Miniman

The Construct type doesn't say anything about sleep; the golem entry says they don't require sleep.

nitsua60

03:18

Right. Looking back, I still can't accept LFC's answer because he uses Animated Armor's Constructed Nature block as a stand-in for all constructs, when that's not (quite) valid.

Miniman

Er...but as your question says, their immunity to being charmed renders them immune to the sleep spell.

nitsua60

But not all constructs are immune to it. Most are, but the one in the session tonight wasn't.

Miniman

@nitsua60 Unfortunately the alternative is looking at every construct individually, because types no longer really do much of anything.

ACuriousMind

Sooo...make a ruling whether all your constructs are "Constructed Nature" or not.

Where's the problem?

Miniman

@nitsua60 Which one?

nitsua60

03:22

Right. What ended up happening at the table: PCs were fighting a known construct. Player said "I'm going to take a gamble" and cast sleep. I looked at statblock which says it doesn't require sleep. Said "hmm." Grabbed my PHB, flipped quickly to sleep, grabbed my MM, flipped to Introduction, and two canny DMs at the table said "he's trying to figure out whether it can be put to sleep." Then I got back to the statblock, no condition immunity to charm, and there it is: asleep.

@ACuriousMind Constructed nature means they don't require sleep. Not whether they're capable of it. Sleep says it can't target undead or those immune to charmed condition. Most constructs have "charmed" as a condition immunity, but that's specific to each statblock, not part of "constructed nature."

@Miniman Can't say =\

ACuriousMind

@nitsua60 Eh. Sometimes I think I don't get D&D rules discussion: Just decide whether or not in your world, constructs are capable of sleep - if they aren't, there is no effect, if they are, that an interesting part of lore people just learned.

Miniman

@nitsua60 Ah, right.

@ACuriousMind In nitsua's situation, that's not really an option.

ACuriousMind

@Miniman To make a decision is not an option?

Miniman

@nitsua60 That said, there's a feedback for you right there.

nitsua60

@ACuriousMind I'm running a published adventure and for $reasons try to hew as close to the rules as I can without ever spending more than fifteen seconds pondering.

ACuriousMind

03:31

I...see

nitsua60

@ACuriousMind Imagine it's Adventurer's League.

I'm not going to waste minutes of table-time dithering over this, but I will do two quick lookups just to sanity-check myself on a really sharp edge-case.

ACuriousMind

@nitsua60 As someone who has never actually played a single session of D&D, that means nothing to me

nitsua60

It's an organized play format in which we GM for, possibly, complete strangers who drop in and out on a weekly basis. As such there's an ethos of hewing as closely to RAW as practicable, so that players' experience (of what the rules actually are) table-to-table doesn't vary so widely as to be completely disjointed.

ACuriousMind

I see :)

It's a completely alien idea to most players I know, but I think I understand ;)

nitsua60

That said, no AL site coordinator would ever balk at a GM making the ruling I mention above one way or another and just moving on. I'll say as a coordinator that I'd certainly advise my GMs to pick one, jot it down, and move on.

@ACuriousMind It's... a thing.

It certainly lacks a lot of what a "traditional" group or campaign has, but it's definitely serving a purpose, I believe.

For me, for instance, I spent seven years in my current town trying to get a handful of players together for a regular game. Could never quite get it to catch. Then I started playing in and running AL games. It meant I could get a person from town to come down and give it a try, perhaps get them hooked. I could meet people down there and find that a couple live closer to me than they do to the FLGS. Soon I'v egot a core I can have play in town, and that attracts people to try it.

ACuriousMind

03:38

Oh, wow.

I've never been in a want for players; All of them advertise my rounds well enough that I don't have enough time to do all of these tables

nitsua60

@ACuriousMind I live in a very rural area.

Fewer than 1K residents in town, and we're the "big" town in the area.

ACuriousMind

Yeah, I guess American rural areas can be very different

nitsua60

(We have a stop light.)

("a stop light.")

The "L" in FLGS = 1 hour drive, each way =\

ACuriousMind

Ugh

Shalvenay

and that's East Coast rural, mind you

you get out into the middle of Nevada....

nitsua60

03:41

(Though I know that's nothing for @PeterCooperJr. or @NautArch)

=D

Shalvenay

"NO SERVICES FOR 50 MILES" type stuff

nitsua60

@Shalvenay Yeah--"rural" in the most-densely populated section of the country =)

@Shalvenay "Last gas station." "Was that sign supposed to say 'last gas station for X miles'?" "Nope. Just 'last gas station.'"

ACuriousMind

I guess I will add "grateful to be born in a densely populated country" to my list of boons ;)

nitsua60

@ACuriousMind Where (be as vague as you like) do you live?

ACuriousMind

@nitsua60 Heidelberg, Germany, but I'm originally from Wuppertal

Shalvenay

03:44

@nitsua60 yup. there are places $work goes that nobody else can get to because there is no other access than what we own/provide

nitsua60

@ACuriousMind Wunderbar!

=)

ACuriousMind

I mean, Wuppertal has twice the precipitaion of Heidelberg, moving to Heidelberg really improved my chances of seeing the sun

nitsua60

I wanted to do a semester abroad in Heidelberg, but my German professor told me I'd die if I tried to get along auf Deutsch. Or maybe she said I'd be red. I don't know, I wasn't very gut.

[crosses fingers that's funny in German]

[or at least chuckle-worthy]

ACuriousMind

@nitsua60 Ah, my experience is that it is impossible for foreign students to improve their German here - as soon as we realize you're foreign, we'll all speak English to impress you ;)

nitsua60

@Shalvenay Yeah, the difference between my rural and your region's rural is that I have to drive half an hour to get to a grocery store, but an hour farther and I can see the NYC skyline.

Shalvenay

03:48

@nitsua60 well, I'm using Nevada rural as an extreme case

rural where I am is somewhat closer to your situation

nitsua60

Sure. But I've crossed your state plenty of times, and the rural parts--away from the big two cities, let's say--are a bit more extensive than mine =)

Shalvenay

@nitsua60 yeah :) that is true

nitsua60

I might have (stupidly, I'll admit) driven through three hours of your state with both feet up on the dashboard.

ACuriousMind

At the job I just started, they thoroughly instructed us to speak broken English to any people we don't know ;)

nitsua60

What's the thinking there?

Shalvenay

03:52

@nitsua60 -- chatizen question: who'd make the best example-grognard out of the chatizenry? looking for someone grognardian to be a guinea pig for me sometime :)

ACuriousMind

@nitsua60 It's a international company (SAP), it's not feasible to require any other language

Shalvenay

@ACuriousMind oh. SAP :P

can you tell them to get their dang time-entry-UI-widget-thingy to stop requiring Flash? :P

nitsua60

@Shalvenay Without digging into exactly what you mean by and what others understand by "grognard" I'd hesitate to nominate rodents....

Go ahead and craft a "looking for old-school player" message and I'll pin it, though?

ACuriousMind

@Shalvenay Probably not, I just work on security checks ;P

Shalvenay

@nitsua60 hrm...not sure come to think of it. I was thinking Korvin might be good, if he only had the schedule to squeeze a short-form game in

(him, you, and mxy would come the closest to "old-school" steeped players I know of out of the chatizenry)

@ACuriousMind well, Flash is one giant exploit :P

nitsua60

03:57

SSD certainly knows a lot of the history--I have no idea what they like to play, though.

Shalvenay

@nitsua60 yeah, SSD might be worth talking to as well

ACuriousMind

@Shalvenay I don't know of any way to include Flash in SAP's code yet, I'm afraid :P

Shalvenay

@ACuriousMind :P more like "it's already there" AFAICT

(we have SAP for our timekeeping at $work)

ACuriousMind

But currently I'm just doing very basic stuff until they properly train me

Shalvenay

ah

ACuriousMind

03:59

All I know is that I'm responsible for protecting you against things like SQL injections

nitsua60

Everyone starts with ol' Bobby Drop Tables, eh?

ACuriousMind

@nitsua60 Just today I coded an example to protect against that, yes :D

It's a very welcome change from the "read these papers and figure out if they have anything to do at all with what we think is cool" routine I had before

Shalvenay

Looking for one old-school-experienced D&D player (i.e. B/X or similar and/or AD&D/2e experience, in addition to experience with or the willingness to learn 5e) to serve as a test subject for a setting element in a short-form, online D&D game.

2

^^ @nitsua60 -- is that good for a pin?

@nitsua60 or just be one Mr. Michael O'Leary :P

btw @nitsua60 @KorvinStarmast is trying to get a hold of you re: ToA

nitsua60

@Shalvenay Yeah, I'll ping everyone when I've gotten my head wrapped around getting through this January-thing.

Shalvenay

@ACuriousMind -- yeah, I've been slowly converting one of the code bases I work on at $work from format-string-SQL-building to prepared statements (albeit not completely, there are some flies in the ointment due to named parameters not going everywhere you'd want them to)

(as well as database-API infelicities)

ACuriousMind

04:11

@Shalvenay Ah, yes, I'm slowly beginning to open that pandora's box ;)

Shalvenay

@ACuriousMind yeah. I'm kind of doing various pieces of code as I touch them

ACuriousMind

I also was completely overdressed for my first week since no one seems to care at all here what you wear :P

Shalvenay

@ACuriousMind hahahaha

the weirdest moment I've ever had on that was sitting at a sandwich shop, eating lunch, while still wearing the hard hat and hi vis vest from the morning's field trip

ACuriousMind

@Shalvenay Well, at least a hard hat is appropriate for that situation :P

Shalvenay

@ACuriousMind hahaha xD

yes

ACuriousMind

04:20

I'm gonna wear my Wacken T-shirts next week to show I'm not actually a sales person ;)

Shalvenay

haha xD

hey there @EnderLook

Ender Look

Hi

Shalvenay

how're things going? welcome to the RPG.SE lair :)

Ender Look

Fine, you? Just exploring new SE sites

Shalvenay

@EnderLook alright here

Ender Look

04:29

great

Could I make a silly question? In the RPG.SE tags I found D&D... What is that? I researched a little in google and I am not sure if it's a board game, a pc game, or actually a series of books... do you know about it?

Shalvenay

@EnderLook OK, history lesson time. Dungeons & Dragons started off life as basically a small-scale evolution of larger-scale tabletop wargames (Chainmail is often named here, but there are many others as well), where instead of focusing on units of soldiers and stuff, the focus was on individual heroes/adventurers

it gained a life of its own as part of the gaming-convention scene, becoming one of the first games to be called a "tabletop" or "pen-and-paper" role-playing game

as a result of it, the rules were written down and codified as a set of books, first more loosely in a few places, and then by a publisher called TSR as something called Advanced Dungeons & Dragons, or AD&D for short. then things really took off with the idea, and other systems for other purposes (different genres, etc) were developed as well -- this is where games like the original Shadowrun, Traveller, and GURPS spring from

Ender Look

Impresive

Shalvenay

going back to D&D -- while it has inspired all of the things you list (I'm sure), it's really its own kind of beast, distinct from any of them

while board games are closed-ended creatures, where you can't do anything that's not explicitly laid out in the rules, tabletop roleplaying games are largely open-ended

from a gameplay standpoint, one can basically attempt most anything in a tabletop RPG, even if there's not a direct rule for it, and the GM/DM (the person running the game) is expected to figure out what to do with the action

the rules still constrain you in some ways, and also constrain the GM/DM in some ways as well

but a tabletop RPG generally supports the full diversity of human interaction

computer game spinoffs of (subsets of) D&D also exist (most notably Baldur's Gate and the Neverwinter Nights series of games as well as some follow-ons)

but because they're computer games, they have limitations on power and expressiveness that aren't present in the edition of D&D they're based off of

(some spells in D&D simply can't be adjudicated by a computer game engine, for instance)

there are also novels set in the various campaign universes that were published as part of D&D adventures

most notably the books of R.A.Salvatore (if you ever hear of a book-character named Drizzt Do'Urden, that's where he hails from)

@EnderLook -- does that answer your questions, or is there anything you're still unclear about?

Ender Look

04:44

mmm

It's too much to assimilate. Give me a moment to think

BESW

[amused] That's quite an infodump, Shalv.

Ender Look

So d&d isn't one story. It's a set of rules and a medieval age with things its own monsters, races, class, heroe, spells and magical system, where persons (normal people, writers, game developers, movies producers) use to make their own histories his with a common pattern?

BESW

Yeah, pretty much.

Ender Look

I saw a photo with some persons "drawing" a map. People make their own maps?

Sora Tamashii

Hey. :)

BESW

04:47

Let's put it this way: Tabletop role-playing games (the subject of rpg.se) are when friends get together and use shared rule structures to improvise stories together. D&D is the first and most famous of the families of rule structures.

Shalvenay

@EnderLook yes, they do. in fact, they make up entire campaign worlds and story arcs

hey there @SoraTamashii, welcome to the RPG.SE lair :)

Ender Look

@Shalvenay And there people play their own worlds's campaings with friends?

Sora Tamashii

So, what's this evening's debate?

Ender Look

@SoraTamashii Shalvenay is teaching me what is D&D

BESW

@SoraTamashii [wave] Welcome back.

Shalvenay

04:49

@EnderLook indeed, or other folks' campaigns for that matter. third parties generally are free to publish campaign settings and materials of that nature for existing tabletop RP systems, D&D included

you can view a TTRPG as part "game construction kit", part "story construction kit", and part "world construction kit"

Ender Look

But futhermorer "unofficial" campaings (made by "fans") there are the official ones (buyable)?

Shalvenay

yes there are indeed

Ender Look

Impresive

This is a new world for me :)

Shalvenay

each system brings its own set of tools for those three tasks to the table, in varying quantities

Sora Tamashii

D&D is a ruleset that has pre-constructed scenarios and a world, while also being just a ruleset that can be adapted to other worlds. Or at least that's how I've always seen it.

Basically, you have D&D System and D&D World. D&D World uses the System, but the System is not always used with the World.

BESW

04:52

Like video games, TTRPGs are a medium rather than a particular product. D&D is a family of TTRPGs within that medium.

Ender Look

And if I want to learn about the D&D rules set. Where can I read it? I foun this wiki but it is really big... I don't know where start reading.

Shalvenay

@SoraTamashii yeah, I'd say that's not quite general enough in that it doesn't take into account the tailoring done by game masters to the base rules to fit specific situations

Sora Tamashii

Both are D&D, and when you refer to it generally, you're referring to both unless otherwise stated or context implies otherwise.

Ender Look

@SoraTamashii Yes, I am starting to understand.

Shalvenay

@EnderLook you first have to start with the question of "which edition?" in general, unless there's some reason not to, I'd start with the current edition of D&D (i.e. Fifth Edition)

Sora Tamashii

04:53

Shalvenay, yeah, but that's more like Everrett's Many Worlds Interpretation at that point.

Ender Look

@Shalvenay Fifth?

Sora Tamashii

@BESW HEY! :)

BESW

D&D is like, oh, Final Fantasy or the Mario Bros games: old, lots of variation, still new versions being published, lots of people like older versions better... and then there's all the other video games out there which are completely different but still count as video games.

Ender Look

And there is a book for each edition????

I don't want to read 5 books! :(

Sora Tamashii

Multiple books usually.

Shalvenay

04:54

@EnderLook yes. there are lots of books for each edition, even. it's best to think of each edition as a separate system in its own right

BESW

If you're interested specifically in D&D, try these basic rules.

Sora Tamashii

Look at it as each edition is a new game. DnD 5E is, in my opinion, the easiest for a newbie to start with.

Ender Look

@BESW Ok thanks

Shalvenay

@SoraTamashii seconded bigtime

Ender Look

@SoraTamashii Great

Sora Tamashii

04:55

You don't need experience with the other editions in order to play 5e. :)

Shalvenay

so yeah, the Basic Rules BESW linked are enough to get a decent understanding of the system's base features, and can be combined with some additional material from something called the 5e System Reference Document in order to have a complete enough set of options to get someone a good start in the system.

Ender Look

Ok

BESW

Personally, I don't think D&D is the best entry point to the world of TTRPGs, but a lot of people including myself encounter it first because it's the most well-known.

Ender Look

I still can't believe D&D is a so complicate thing. I thought it was just one board game.

Even less I can believe TTRPGs is a game genre xD

Shalvenay

@BESW hrm, where would you introduce someone at? I'm really not sure if throwing someone into a mechanized-story game first would throw them for a loop if they then move on to more traditional stuff, or if the learning curve is steeper the other way around

or would you start them in something very lightweight like RFS?

BESW

05:00

@Shalvenay It really depends on their background and how much I'm going to be escorting them vs just making recommendations to someone online.

Sora Tamashii

Personally, I'd say Munchkin is the best introductory point. lol :P

Ender Look

Sorry... does RFS is this??

Shalvenay

@EnderLook RFS is short for Roll for Shoes, a very minimalistic TTRPG

BESW

I think this hour-long video is a good "quick" demonstration of a full session of a TTRPG game, which gives a good sense of what the medium's capable of and showcases a system that's designed for easy entry and escalation of complexity if desired.

Sora Tamashii

The rules are simpler, rulings are easy, and it gets ridiculously fun. It may not be a traditional TTRPG, but it gives you the basic ideas.

Ender Look

05:01

Ok

BESW

@Shalvenay No, thanks, fixed.

I think Roll For Shoes is a bit... open-ended? For most cases I'd consider it a "throw 'em in the deep end" game because it doesn't give any advice or guidance.

Ender Look

Well, in my country it's 2:02 AM, I shall go to bed or otherwise I will wake up later (and that would angry my father...). Bye and good luck for everyone. Tomorrow I will have to do some research. :)

BESW

See you around!

Shalvenay

@BESW ah. because I do have a basically-brand-new player under my wing if you will, and while I was able to get them what seems to be a healthy introduction to the conventional side via a good short-form D&D 5e adventure, I'm not sure how I should approach expanding their horizons. (they do seem to be at least somewhat familiar with baseline fantasy genre stuff, at least.)

BESW

I did use Roll For Shoes as an introduction twice, but both were special cases.

Shalvenay

05:06

@BESW how so?

BESW

In one, it was a single person and I judged from knowing them that they'd like to see the different tools of gaming: zooming detail, narrative control options, montage, play-to-discover, etc. RFS was a great way to showcase those in a short period of time because I could decide all on my own when and how to invoke them.

Shalvenay

@BESW nods

BESW

In the other, it was a massive game and half the people were new to TTRPGs while half of them were mostly of the "4e is too different from 3.5 so I play Pathfinder" mindset.

There, part of my goal was to shake existing players out of their D&Disms before we played a game of Cthulhu Dark.

And a bunch of new-to-RPG onlookers wanted to join in.

Shalvenay

right

BESW

So RFS was ideal for a large crowd of people unfamiliar with how things worked, because the rules were ridiculously simple and if people got silly or rowdy the rules were there or not as I needed them.

And it gave me room to leverage my charisma and social engineering to control the crowd.

Shalvenay

05:12

yeah, I can see how that'd work well

BESW

If your target is intimidated by entry costs, RFS has an obvious advantage; the "here's the rules on an index card" aspect was one of the reasons so many new people wanted to join the game.

Shalvenay

yeah, I don't think that's too terribly huge of a concern in my case though

BESW

But in both cases I was right there and controlling the game using GM fiat and social engineering, drawing on the techniques taught me by other games to give RFS structure and coherency.

Shalvenay

aye, and I'd be running this as an online session, likely twosies

BESW

It was very much an Auteur Theory implementation of TTRPGs.

Shalvenay

05:18

@SoraTamashii -- so, what systems do you play/genres do you play in?

BESW

In terms of expanding baselines... Roll For Shoes is a good thing to have in a line-up, but not great on its own. Lady Blackbird, Great Ork Gods, Danger Patrol, pick a World of Adventure for Fate that matches your target's media preferences...

Though some of those aren't great as twosies. Hrm.

Great Ork God as twosies doesn't really work.

That puts a bit of a limit on things. Cthulhu Confidential, though.

Shalvenay

@BESW well, I have one other new-ish player I could work in. I have my doubts about Great Ork Gods given what I know about the players in question. Fate is something I'd like to run, but I'd probably be doing my own worldbuilding, and probably would want to run a few Fate games with vets of the system before unleashing it on a newb

Lady Blackbird I'm still on the fence about (having not touched it myself)

Sora Tamashii

Mainly, 5E, but I only DM. Never played on the other side of the ethereal veil. lol

BESW

@Shalvenay Yes, the games I'm familiar with are... not the games you'd be most comfortable with.

Shalvenay

@SoraTamashii heheheh. I've played all the editions of D&D save for straight-up 3e and 4e although I have on-background knowledge of the former and tried the latter

DMed 3.5e and 5e

also played DW, Fate, a bit of classic Traveller, and a couple other systems that just aren't coming to me right now

Sora Tamashii

05:25

I also adapt the mechanics and do reskins depending on what people are interested in. Right now, I'm making my first actual (Type-Moon) homebrew with "original" material, not that it's actually original. lol

Shalvenay

oh yeah, and RFS too

tried GMing Fate Accelerated once in a PbP but made an utter hash of it

Sora Tamashii

I was considering looking into Fate for the Type-Moon Homebrew, but decided to stick with what I know. lol

Shalvenay

@BESW -- I have the Fate Core book btw -- perhaps I should see about getting a couple of the Fate vets on this chat to help me learn how to run the system?

(keep in mind that as is the norm for me, I'd be developing my own world vs. using a premade world/adventure/campaign)

@SoraTamashii LMK btw if you ever want to be on the other side of the curtain :)

BESW

@SoraTamashii Have you talked to @JuneShores? They might be familiar with that sort of material in gaming.

Sora Tamashii

I may take you up on that sometime, Shalvenay.

BESW, I don't even know who that is. I haven't even been a member for 24 hours yet, though, so that may be why.

Shalvenay

05:33

@SoraTamashii just lurk here and keep your eyes peeled for them :)

BESW

@SoraTamashii June is one of the chatters who's most familiar with Japanese RPGs and RPGs inspired by Japanese media.

(Also, grats on your stellar first days! That's a lotta well-received answers in a short amount of time.)

Sora Tamashii

I do my best to give quality answers when asked questions. :)

BESW

I'd like to think we all do, but I for one have to take more time than that to do it.

Sora Tamashii

As for making my TM5e, I'm so far off the reservation with this that it may be safest to first test it before sharing it. lol

BESW

Sharing is testing. [grin] That's why I released Long Live the King of Monsters! into the wild; to get feedback.

But even if you're not ready to share it, June may have insight into translating structure and theme into mechanics.

Sora Tamashii

05:43

One of the things I did was murder DnD's traditional Stat System and Stat Layout.

BESW

05:56

Considering that the best implementation of D&D's ability mechanic involved making exactly which stats you use less important... I'm not sure the six-ability spread is working even for D&D. But Tradition.

Sora Tamashii

Well, I actually still use a 6 Ability Spread, but by including Luck, to fit the Type-Moon system theme, and combining Intelligence and Wisdom into Mentality to justify mana gain instead of relying only on a spell slot system. (Make some spells need slots, others mana, and others both.)

BESW

06:15

I'm thinking of D&D 4e and 13th Age, in which major stat modifier roles (like Fort/Ref/Will and attack/damage) are presented as choices. In 4e, your Fort uses the better of your Str or Con mods, your Ref uses the better of your Dex or Int, and your Will the better of your Cha or Wis.

13th Age has Armor Class, Physical Defense, and Mental Defense. AC uses the middle modifier between your Con, Dex, and Wis; PD uses the middle modifier between Con, Str, and Dex; MD uses the middle between Int, Wis, and Cha.

This significantly lowers the pressure to choose the "right" abilities, and it represents a wider spread of "ways of doing things" in your characters.

If a game design is married to a D&D-inherited ability/modifier system, I think that's a good philosophy to bring to the design.

Miniman

@SoraTamashii Tbh, I think using a d20-based system for Type-Moon is a mistake - TM characters are very consistent in their abilities, so the swinginess of d20 is going to create very weird moments.

Saber blocks hundreds of unblockable hits from Lancer - he doesn't get a 20 and get one through.

kviiri

11:51

One of my recent answers got a comment stating a minor rules correction the commenter didn't present a source for. I didn't find such a source either so I asked the commented to provide one the day before yesterday. Should I just flag the comment as obsolete or what?

To clarify, I haven't gotten a reply yet :P

Miniman

12:26

@kviiri Link?

kviiri

@Miniman rpg.stackexchange.com/a/112773/11660 Comment by Greenstone Walker: "Correction: You cannot Ready an Attack Action, only a single attack. The Attack Action can only ever be taken on your turn."

I think I've heard that claim before so I checked the PHB but found nothing of the sorts (even before editing the bit about Readying an Attack action in).

Miniman

@kviiri Nope, that's wrong.

You can't use Extra Attack with a readied action.

kviiri

@Miniman Yea, that's what I thought.

@Miniman Unless the trigger happens to fire on your turn I guess? :P

Miniman

@kviiri Ooooh, nice.

kviiri

I don't see much reason for Readying an action to take place during one's turn though.

Peter Cooper Jr.

12:43

@kviiri I can imagine some oddball scenarios, where you suspect your opponent has an action readied that triggers on your movement, so you end up trying to trigger off of their readied action starting, so you can attack them before they attack you or something like that.

While still being able to get within range, or something like that.

Shalvenay

18:33

hey there @kviiri

hey as well @ACuriousMind

kviiri

@Shalvenay Hi!

Shalvenay

how're things going?

kviiri

Great! You caught me at a very opportune time - right at the end of my pomodoro :)

Shalvenay

alright here. say, mind if I ask you re: a few system-selection things?

kviiri

Surely not, go ahead!

I'm not an expert because I've mostly been playing DnD and Apocalypse World :)

And well, some Savage Worlds too.

(almost blew it with which way to answer "do you mind" again... English is hard)

ACuriousMind

18:37

@Shalvenay ahoi

Shalvenay

ah, well...first off, I have a campaign idea (centered around disaster-recovery and logistics with some survival aspects mixed in) that I'm still wondering what system to use with it

@ACuriousMind how're things going?

kviiri

@Shalvenay Sounds cool

ACuriousMind

@Shalvenay Quite well, setting up for a TDE session in a few minutes

Shalvenay

@kviiri ah. yeah ....I don't think D&D 5e is the right system choice though (not gritty enough with the logistics slightly too abstracted)

@ACuriousMind ah. maybe you want to chip into the system-selection discussion we're having here?

kviiri

Apocalypse World 2e has guidelines for determining how NPC populations and individuals react to various scarcities, you might want to take a look at those at least. I'm not sure if AW is otherwise an excellent fit for a game where the focus is more on the logistics than on evil people of the post-disaster hellscape.

apocalypse-world.com/ApocalypseWorldBasicRefbook2ndEd.pdf see last page

Shalvenay

18:43

@kviiri yeah, some of those are kinda useful, some not so much

kviiri

Would you like it to be a test of player skill, or a more narrative experience?

Shalvenay

@kviiri I think that it's going to have to be a balance between the two

Burning Wheel was recommended to me, but I want to play in the system first before I try DMing it

kviiri

I've heard good things about Burning Wheel but that's pretty much all I can say about it :)

You'd probably want to look for some more management-focused RPG? Those might bend easily to the purposes of disaster relief.

Shalvenay

19:00

@kviiri yeah. I suppose I could hack on D&D 3.5e :P

kviiri

Another pomodoro starting, so see you in twenty or so

Sora Tamashii

Ayyo :3

Shalvenay

hey there @SoraTamashii

Sora Tamashii

Sorry for vanishing last night. Sort of fell asleep on the keyboard.

Shalvenay

ah, ol' qwertyface :P

no worries. how're things going otherwise?

also, before we launch into any D&D experiences @SoraTamashii, two questions: do you have any serious subgenre preferences within the overall umbrella of fantasy, and are you at all an arachnophobe?

Ender Look

19:11

Are "edition" and "version" of D&D the same thing? I found a link of an starting guide "edition 5", but the pdf say "version 0.3"...

Sora Tamashii

Definitely arachnophobic. I'm terrified of spiders. Otherwise, no preference.

Shalvenay

@EnderLook no, edition and version are different things.

@SoraTamashii that is quite good to know, as that takes one of my "stock" short-form dungeons off the table

Sora Tamashii

Haha Okay. :P

Shalvenay

(also means you miss out on visits from the cuddledrider but oh well :)

Sora Tamashii

I'M OKAY WITH THAT!

Wow, I normally never all CAPS... Congrats. That should be seen as an achievement

Anyhow, I will be leaving for work in about 10 to 20 minutes so, I won't be around for long.

Shalvenay

19:17

@SoraTamashii np. catch ya another time then. I'll be around most of the weekend I reckon

Sora Tamashii

Well, I'm all ready to leave. I just thought I'd give y'all a head's up. I'm sticking around to answer some questions first. lol

@Miniman In all fairness, I agree a d20 system at first sounds tough to reconcile with Type Moon content, but the system I set in place, for the most part, allows servants relative consistency in their attacks and skills. As for your lancer point, let me quote the FSNUBW abridged series for a moment.

@Miniman Lancer: "My attack that will always pierce the heart was disrupted by a metaphysical roll on a d20." While this isn't a canon line from the original series (please support the official release), it does adequately summarize the fact that even the most unavoidable blows in the Type-Moon universe can be overcome thanks to Skill and Luck.

Sora Tamashii

19:35

And... now I have to fly. Bye guys.

nitsua60

22:54

@EnderLook To expand a little, the "editions" of D&D really are different games. An analogy might be to say that if D&D is "games played on a board that has a grid marked and two colors of markers" then the editions could be go/baduk, othello, checkers, nine men's morris, &c. The "version" you're seeing noted is indicating which revision of a text is offered: perhaps some errata were incorporated, or some typos corrected. (And here the analogy breaks down.)

Ender Look

Ok, thanks

nitsua60

81

Q: What are the big differences between the D&D editions?

I've been out of the loop for a while, and I used to play AD&D 2nd ed, but today I find there are a lot of different versions that have fairly different gameplay. Can anyone summarize the really big differences, the ones (maybe top three?) that are the 'killer features' of the different edition...

dungeons-and-dragons

( ^^ as a "see also")

I really do think it should be mentioned that, in order to play OD&D, you need the Chainmail and Outdoor Survival games' rulebooks. Simply getting your hands on the booklets isn't enough to play, because they are incomplete, and read like a combination of secret code and insane ranting. — JAMalcolmson Jul 29 '16 at 16:49

"a combination of secret code and insane ranting" is probably a good description of most editions =)

4

Ender Look

23:10

Ok

Shalvenay

hey there @nitsua60

nitsua60

23:50

hiya @Shalvenay

Shalvenay

@nitsua60 how're things going?

nitsua60

Good. Except I can't seem to get warm. Three days, now, and I've been chilly the whole time. I'm not used to it--usually I'm the warm one and my wife's an icicle.

You?

Shalvenay

alright here

Transcript for