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12:34 AM
@Bob AMD better at some things Intel better at other things... nothing new here then :-P
 
 
2 hours later…
2:33 AM
🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔
 
Many boxes
 
@MichaelFrank GET ON WITH THE EMOJI PLAN!
@allquixotic ????????? what's up?
 
On Windows 7, yea... right.
 
Bob
2:48 AM
@MichaelFrank looks fine to me on win7
firefox :D
 
Huh...
 
dosen't firefox use... fontawesome or something where emojis are not supported?
 
The emoji renders correctly here (Windows 10).
 
@JourneymanGeek just copy-pastaing what bwDraco did earlier
the emojee
 
ahhh
@bwDraco IIRC windows 10 has native emoji support
VERY important feature ;p
 
Bob
3:17 AM
@JourneymanGeek emojione
fontawesome is an icon font, not an emoji font
 
ahh ;p
 
4:09 AM
So... one of my servers is completely refusing logins. Even the out-of-band console is not usable - the system gives me a "login incorrect" error without letting me enter a password. What gives?
Currently in rescue mode.
(openSUSE Tumbleweed - this is my experimental cloud desktop server)
 
4:25 AM
It looks something broke PAM...
Okay, I can get into single-user mode.
 
4:53 AM
Hmm... the audit log contains a smoking gun: the program responsible for handling the login somehow changed to /usr/bin/xdm, which obviously fails when there's no X server running.
Or maybe not.
 
5:11 AM
Created /var/log/journal so that the system will persist logs. Let's take a closer look...
 
5:32 AM
...and found the issue.
PAM unable to dlopen(/lib64/security/pam_unix2.so): /lib64/security/pam_unix2.so: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
/lib64/security/pam_pwcheck.so is also missing.
 
hm. those are not good things to have missing?
 
5:53 AM
2
Q: What is pam_unix2 / why doesn't it exist on some distributions?

Franklin PiatSome documentations, blogs and forums and other examples on the web use pam_unix2 in /etc/pam.d/ configurations. An example taken from pam_winbind manpage: auth required pam_env.so auth sufficient pam_unix2.so auth required pam_winbind.so use_first_pass accoun...

Looks like the PAM configuration was outdated. Ran pam-config --create.
(pam-config is SUSE-specific)
Generating a new PAM configuration should fix it.
See, this is why I like openSUSE. They have these tools that automate doing these sorts of configuration tasks.
Problem solved.
Sometimes, openSUSE Tumbleweed breaks in weird ways like this (e.g. I've had networking issues in the past when they switched to predictable network interface names), but as a whole, openSUSE is a fantastic distro. It's that a rolling release tends to be less server-oriented and less reliable than the regular Leap release.
Again, this is an experimental cloud desktop server for my personal use and doesn't provide any public services, so some downtime is acceptable.
 
6:14 AM
My Ubuntu and Fedora boxen don't typically break :p
 
6:29 AM
TIL what PAM is and how misconfiguration can get you locked out of your computer.
Getting locked out of your own server isn't fun.
 
Bob
6:44 AM
...I think I'll take "does not break" over "has tools to fix some very specific breakages", which makes one wonder why said tools aren't automatic.
@JourneymanGeek Fedora doesn't typically break? Have you forgotten already? :P
 
Lol. The kernel broke for btrfs... Like once
And an update failed cause of a third party kernel module...
 
Bob
> the kernel broke
that sounds bad
> for btrfs
oh, just another day
 
phew
 
For everyone on that version... 'p
 
Managed to short one of the motherboard USB ports. Astaroth powered down immediately at the power supply level. It looks like all ports are working normally.
(cable insertion error)
 
Bob
6:50 AM
...
how, exactly, does one plug in a USB cable incorrectly?
I mean... they're physically keyed and don't really fit any other way
:S
@JourneymanGeek oh yea, new headphones arrived :P
 
Well, was trying to plug in a Type-C port into the (sole) Type-C port on the motherboard, somehow put it into a Type-A port. Looks like a VBUS to ground short, which is why it turned off immediately.
See, this is why a good PSU is worth every dollar.
 
Bob
o.O
 
Seasonic always gets the protections right.
 
Bob
also, I'm pretty sure that's supposed to be handled at the mobo level
that's what polyfuses are for
by the time it's drawn enough current to trip the PSU, the motherboard would be toast
 
Lol will dig up the test track when I get home
 
Bob
6:55 AM
@JourneymanGeek found it last night
just wanted to make sure they weren't duds
 
Lol. With the van sounds?
 
Bob
ya
was the second result :P
 
All ports operate properly with both USB 2.0 and 3.0 devices.
 
If I use Public Key Auth to SSH into my server, do I need to generate a unique key pair for each computer I plan to connect from?
 
7:10 AM
Also made sure that USB 2.0 devices functioned on the affected port (which IIRC is a USB 3.1 Gen2 port).
So, this looks like a straight to ground (connector sheath) short.
 
One last sanity check... making sure that the affected port is able to supply a full 2 amps.
 
@MichaelFrank no
 
Looks okay.
 
@Bob strangest audio test track but wfm :p
 
Bob
7:18 AM
@MichaelFrank do you want to?
you can do it either way, really.
some people just have one key. some people do high-security and low-security keys, e.g. the latter might go on a laptop.
some people have a different key for every machine
as you go up the tree, it's harder to manage but more secure (you'd need to have some way to add the new key to existing deployments but it's easier to remove compromised keys)
 
@MichaelFrank You don't really need to. Unlike a password, it's virtually impossible to crack public-key authentication (at least with current technology).
 
Bob
@bwDraco the risk isn't a 'crack', the risk is losing (leaking) the key
 
Yup.
As long as your key is safe, it's fine.
 
Bob
e.g. if you want access from a machine you don't own (work machine?) then that should probably have a different key
but this is all process, there is no technical reason either way won't work
 
@Bob Technically, the supply is capable of outputting 20A on the +5V rail, so I'm not sure how Seasonic engineered this to catch a short so quickly, before any hardware damage occurred.
 
7:22 AM
Thanks guys :) I thought it was probably that way, but just wanted to sanity check.
 
Anyone with EE experience able to chip in on this as to how a power supply is able to catch a short so quickly?
 
Bob
@bwDraco They didn't. Because it's not possible.
Either the motherboard tripped something or the PSU failed from the sudden spike.
In the latter case, that's likely out of spec (and therefore technically poor PSU behaviour).
 
Hmm...
Pulled out my USB load tester. All ports are able to output 2.5A with voltage remaining in spec, with no significant deviations among ports.
So that rules out any real damage to the ports' ability to deliver power.
 
Bob
Most likely you just tripped something on the motherboard.
@bwDraco Depends. If they were supposed to negotiate...
Or it actually hit PSU OCP in which case you're lucky the motherboard survived.
 
Well, chances are good the motherboard just shut itself down.
 
7:34 AM
@Bob the wiring on my bias lighting sometimes shorts... Causing my motherboard to shut things down :p
 
Bob
20A is magic smoke levels, though you might have some leeway because they were power traces in the first place.
 
There also would have been massive arcing if that sort of power level was reached.
 
Planning on better insulation and design this gen....
 
The connector shows no sign of arcing damage. Hence, I'm pretty sure it was the motherboard.
 
Bob
@bwDraco ...no?
smoke and maybe flames if it's kept up for long enough
but arcing? no.
arcing implies a path through air, usually with a high voltage
5V would be hard pressed to arc any appreciable distance
 
7:37 AM
I'm not sure if Seasonic supplies reset themselves in the event of a short...
(most supplies, to the best of my knowledge, just turn off completely and will not reset until you remove power)
 
Bob
@bwDraco OCP would kick in, but that's assuming the motherboard doesn't do something first
 
Because there was no need to remove power from the system.
 
Bob
as for whether it turns back on, if it's still supplying 5VSB then the motherboard would decide (usually a firmware setting)
@bwDraco if resistance were low enough, I suppose it could have crossed 20A quickly enough to minimise heating
 
When upgrading Android, does it matter if I leave smartphone on AC or not?
 
@Bob Unlikely, the voltage dropped some 0.25V on a 2.5A load. The impedance is just too high for it to have passed 20A without damaging something. Nearly all of the power would have been heat.
(probably motherboard/cable/connector resistance)
OCP for +5V is 28A.
There's no way the motherboard would have survived a 140W dead short (and possibly more as OCP does take a few milliseconds to respond) with no detectable damage.
 
7:49 AM
@Boris_yo you probably don’t want your phone to go flat while updating...
 
Probably, something on the motherboard detected that there was a sudden power surge and powered down immediately.
This isn't a polyfuse tripping. The whole machine powered down and reset after a couple of seconds.
👍 to ASUS.
Or, VBUS might have been shorted to a data pin, which may or may not fry stuff.
Given that the port works properly with both USB 2.0 and 3.0 devices, damage has been ruled out.
 
@bwDraco the boot process will tell you if there was a short
 
Bob
@JourneymanGeek Depends on the board
we did manage to kill a cheap gigabyte one with a usb hdd at previousJob
well, the usb ports on it
...
I just crashed an atm
 
8:11 AM
o0
 
/me wibbles
 
...and just tested the Type-C connector. It works fine.
 
Bob
at least it gave me my card back
 
rofl
(had to go out of my way to fetch the only C-to-C cable I have because my C-to-A adapter is flaky)
 
8:27 AM
@Bob my wife had a card which would crash all the banks 'account management machines'
they had these machines which would let you do inter account transfers, print statements etc
for some reason her card would crash all of them repeatidly
would be great fun to walk in 'we need to print a statement and we can't use that machine'
they'd be like "sure you can, let us show you"
<crash>
"oh.... errr lets try this one"
<crash>
"Hmmm I think I'll go print it manually from our computers for you".
 
Bob
lol
the atm I picked was a bit laggy
then the screen just blanked after I hit withdraw
took ~15 secs for a "out of service" message to appear and the card to come out
probably hit a watchdog timeout
the atm next to it worked fine
also it looked like it came back up by the time I was done
 
lmao
I'm lucky the system survived a USB short circuit with no lasting damage.
 
8:45 AM
@Bob fair enuf
 
9:43 AM
...gave it some thought. If we talk about the voltage drop...
> the voltage dropped some 0.25V on a 2.5A load
That's 0.1 ohms, which means you have a prospective short-circuit current of 50A.
Hence, the 28A overload protection limit may have been reached.
Again, though, I doubt we actually had anywhere near 28A of current, nor was a short-circuit present for long enough to cause any damage. I'm pretty sure this was motherboard protection.
 
9:59 AM
heh
DC in a radar bunker.
 
user226528
Hey, guys! :)
 
I'm going to be keeping a close eye on the USB subsystem. I don't suspect any lasting damage occurred (and high-end ASUS boards are designed to be resistant to this sort of fault) but I don't know what might happen in the long haul. At least all the ports pass all the tests I could perform, including USB 2.0, USB 3.0 (with data transfers confirming SuperSpeed operation), and electrical load testing up to 2.5A.
That was scary, to say the least.
 
whoo
Applied somewhere. They got in touch about a phone interview
 
@JourneymanGeek good stuff
What kinda work?
 
helpdesk tech
 
Bob
10:11 AM
@JourneymanGeek this looks so incredibly dodgy ebay.com.au/itm/…
 
software dev/CRM place
 
Bob
@JourneymanGeek :O
 
@Bob like applied this morning, they got in touch today lol
 
Bob
@JourneymanGeek that... that could be good or bad
they're desperate... now the question is why
 
> High speed data transmission without packet dropping port.
 
10:12 AM
@Bob how bad could it get? ;p
 
long sleeves!
 
getting chewed out over long sleeves, or call centre metrics and lolicon? ;p
 
Bob
@djsmiley2k more like ... it'll probably send 48V down a non-PoE port
 
@Bob :D
 
10:13 AM
ALL THE POWER TO ALL PORTS!
plz stop linking things I can't afford, nor have shipped to me
 
Bob
cheap, does everything... but damn rackmount switches are noisy
 
yup
 
Bob
I can't do noisy :(
 
i had a 24 port from a old job
but never used it because noisy
 
Bob
@djsmiley2k it's $50
 
10:14 AM
I can't afford it, and it won't ship here :P
 
Bob
the dodgy tplink one I'm probably gonna buy is like $90
 
Because datacenters literally don't care about noise.
 
Bob
8-port, small business thingo
 
@bwDraco cept noise == heat
 
Bob
10:14 AM
I'd rather the enterprise stuff tbh, but... noise :(
 
I have NEARLY everything I need to build my new lighting rig ordered or bought.
Now just need to wait for shipping
 
@Bob PoE and active cooling seem to be unavoidable?
 
Bob
@djsmiley2k hm, to be fair, I don't really need poe... I can make do with the injectors
 
then you might be able to find some passively cooled enterprise gear?
 
Bob
@djsmiley2k even the non-poe stuff has fans :\
 
10:25 AM
not alll of it
 
Bob
@djsmiley2k the ones that come up easily on ebay anyway :P
 
ah well, yes
well this is weird
I feel ike coding up something
 
morning
 
@Bob Meh. Switches are such generic commodity items these days...
@Bob so you're just looking for a switch?
 
Bob
10:47 AM
@FMLCat managed or at least smart (VLAN), yea
poe was preferred but I've more or less abandoned that plan
 
11:02 AM
woooo gentoo VM up and running at work
 
11:13 AM
sup @Burgi
it's not-monday! \o/
 
i'm also at home, chilling out! :D
 
:O
i'm at work
it appears I'm still ill
as is my senior
and the other guy is off now too lol everyone is dying \o/
 
downside to being off, i have to put up with my annoying neighbours, them leaving the fire escape open and their questionable recreational inhalation habit
i'm not saying they are smoking weed
but...
they are smoking weed
 
11:39 AM
that in itself isn't illegal.
So in outlook 2016
I get emails with subject 'Priority 3 Incident XXXXYYYYY' where XXXX is the identifer of the client and YYYYY is a number
I should be able to do a rule to match the partial text of 'XXXX right?
or do I need to put "XXXX*" ?
 
12:17 PM
Hey guys?
I've been thinking about this- Why is it not possible to host a website on your device, say a phone, using your regular carrier data?
I don't get it.
A 100 reasons are given, but none of them make any perfect sense
See, I can send messages to somebody else using the carrier data, and I can also receive info using the same carrier data
Why can't I use this to make a server sorta thing?
 
Bob
@PradyothShandilya You can send messages when you know the destination server address.
 
Now that I think about it, this was probably not the right room to ask this right? My bad
 
Bob
Your phone does not have a fixed server address. It can change every day, every hour, etc.
Also, usually the provider explicitly blocks incoming connections and will even share your (temporary) address with multiple other people.
 
Wait, so how does a regular packet, say a chat message come to my device with the same carrier data?
 
so....
just found out that both neighbours either side of me have moved out
 
12:31 PM
@PradyothShandilya pull requests @PradyothShandilya
the client on your phone contacts a server and goes 'what you got for me?'
 
Uh, what?
I really don't know what you mean
Oh wait
Never mind
Gotcha
No here's the thing, the client contacts a server and goes 'what you got for me?' right?
okay
but see, how does the message finally reach my phone
@bur
 
hmmm?
 
the client downloads it
the same way your web browser downloads webpages
 
damn it, I can't type
 
we aren't talking about SMS, right?
 
12:38 PM
I'm kinda drunk, so..
 
lol ok
 
No we're not talking about sms
Regular internet
 
firstly internet on phones is a pile of hacks
layers upon layers of technologies
 
oh wait, so I can think of mobile data as wifi internet coming off giant mobile towers instead of individual internet connections to every device?
that clears things up.... to an extent at least
 
sure
but they have isoluation on, so devices can't talk to each other.
 
12:47 PM
actually, it is funny this should happen now. I live in India, and there is this mobile carrier called Jio. So I install a server onto my android device and run it, and I can access the localhost on my browser. Great, I thought. But then, I took a friend's phone and typed in the IP address of my phone onto the browser, and yeah, the same webpage opened up. But I took another guy's phone who uses a different connection and tried accessing the same webpage with the same IP
it doesnt open
i don't know if this is a thing with my carrier only(probably not)
 
depends on lots of things
 
you said they have an isolation on right? that may actually not be true
 
your provider prob runs carrier grade nat
however it seems you can touch other systems to an extent.
@PradyothShandilya it varies.
 
Oh okay
right
thanks man
 
@PradyothShandilya I actually have a question on SU on working out if you're on CGN
 
12:55 PM
oh cool
I'll try and find it
 
11
Q: How would I test to see if I'm behind carrier grade or regular NAT?

Journeyman GeekInspired by the comments to this answer and its question. Some of my local ISPs are using carrier grade nat, and as someone who occasionally runs his own servers, remote support, it would be highly useful to be able to work out if I, or someone I am trying to help is behind one of these. How wou...

 
great
yep
my device is definitely on CGN
 
1:20 PM
hiya
question
why from time to time when my pc has been switched on for a long time
 
...?
 
the taskbar on my windows, which has been set to automatically hide but appear as soon as my mouse cursor is on it, that same taskbar is not appearing anymore and the program like Chrome kind of take precedence (e.g is in the main screen)
 
what do you mean by chrome kinda takes precedence? When you hover near where the taskbar was supposed to appear, the chrome icon comes up?
 
Bob
1:42 PM
@PradyothShandilya It matters who opens the connection.
Your phone can open an outgoing connection towards an address elsewhere. Once that outgoing connection is established, bidirectional communication is allowed. But you have to send the first packet.
Incoming connections don't work because the first packet is not allowed through.
 
oh
okay
why is this done though?
 
security
once your front door is open, anyone can walk in
wait, that's a terrible example XD
 
you send out party invites
the bouncer only lets people who were invited in
 
ah okay
that clears things up
man, i learnt more here in an hour than I did in college for in a month
 
1:50 PM
=)
we teach useful infomations only
it may not be useful to you or us, but it will to someone, one day.
 
so what are you guys? not students obviously
 
I'm a network support engineer now
Self taught stuff, went to uni, got degree, found it worthless, worked few IT jobs and finally settled somewhere I like
May not be a student, but I never stop learning
 
nice!
let me ask you something I've been thinking for a couple of days now
 
sure
 
is a .onion website technically a regular website, but accessible using a tor browser only because the tor browser has access to the ip where the .onion website exists?
via the tor dns server(if that is the way it does it)?
 
1:56 PM
@PradyothShandilya nope
 
like, if I had the ip of the .onion website, could I access it without the tor browser(of course, no hops take place)
what is that @AndyK?
oh are you talking about the windows question?
 
@PradyothShandilya yep sir
 
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