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4:00 PM
We also have talked with SE about it and have been told (and experienced) that polls are just ass.
We were encouraged to take a more progressive route in the matter.
 
@AnkitSharma See, if I said things like this on SFF, I'd get called a Nazi mod ;-)
 
But I admittedly dragged this out quite a bit, so if it comes up as a natural discussion in the community, that's how it is then.
 
0
Q: What Object Did Marilyn Take & What Does it Mean?

Darth LockeIn a scene of the final episode of the TV series Longmire (Goodbye Is Always Implied), the reoccuring character, a Crow Medicine Woman named Marilyn Yarlott (Tantoo Cardinal) is in the Police Station and swipes an inanmate object off of another character's desk. It seems like it was some kind of ...

0
Q: Why does Luv cry?

mzywiolSPOILERS, obviously. I watched the movie twice already and I think I have almost everything figured out. The one think though that I still can't understand are these moments where Luv cries: In the scene where Wallace examines the new replicant model (BTW what does he mean by "new model"?) Luv...

 
@Randal'Thor i took my hat off when I said that :p
 
@MovieReel Am I being too harsh here? I don't think so but I'm open to opinions. Isn't this just an Image ID question?
 
4:05 PM
Maybe a bit of both at least. If anything, the response from the asker isn't particularly awesome either.
 
Uff will get no time today also to watch Punisher
9:37 already and still this cab is going zig zag
 
@Paulie_D did the wiki for id this actor get updated at some oint? it seems to allude that an image-only question is ok
 
@NapoleonWilson I'm not sure exactly what you mean by "progressive", but I've seen what happens when mods "take a stand" and announce that a large class of questions are going to be declared off-topic, without doing sufficient polling with the community first. Suffice to say, it resulted in the ugliest few weeks I've ever observed on SE, and you really don't want that kind of thing happening here.
 
I would assume that Image Id is just that regardless of what we are bing asked to identify.
 
@Paulie_D Doesn't being about a specific film make it more answerable and within-scope?
Or does that make it a trivia question?
 
4:09 PM
@Paulie_D I agree, but with the wiki as it currently stands, I can see how they could be confused
 
@Randal'Thor Well, no polls at least, in contrast to reasonable assessment of the state of the site and its community and a properly reasoned judgment call.
 
also, they do include what movie it is from, so I guess it's not really an image-only question
 
Polling is ass because you don't have to say why they're so awesome and why all the arguments against them don't hold water. You just upvote the 1-line answer that says "Yes, I like quiz shows!".
 
@NapoleonWilson Oh, I agree that simply asking people to vote for "yes" or "no" is a poor way to go about these decisions. There should always be reasons.
 
@Randal'Thor Regarding polling...I'm concerned that the results are representative of involved users. We're a pretty small community of regulars but the voting on the last "poll" was way out of proportion to that community.
 
4:12 PM
@Paulie_D If the larger userbase is getting involved with an issue, then that's great, right? I mean, you don't want the small clique of regulars to be able to decide everything.
 
And as expected, most of the maintenance work on these things is generally done by the people who don't care much about the questions.
 
@DForck42 The Image ID...you may be right and perhaps I misspoke and it was just a "lack of research"...I found the actor with little trouble.
@Randal'Thor I don't disagree but those voters aren't the ones doing the "moderating".
 
@Paulie_D it was
@Paulie_D yeah, you might be conflating the two
 
Well, doesn't help that actor-ID often also closely borders on trivia, if not carefully phrased.
 
OK...CV retracted, I'll post an answer. If a mod could clean up the comments it would be appreciated. @NapoleonWilson @AnkitSharma
 
4:15 PM
@Paulie_D I...don't know. They're still helpful.
It's not like the question lacks problems.
 
I am still on mobile, so can’t check without getting irritated with bad interface
 
It's not clear if he's actually after the character and the scene this picture takes place in, which might make a ton more sense than the current question.
 
Why cab need fueling now, grrrrrr
 
@NapoleonWilson If the information doesn't exist in Wikipedia or IMDb, is that enough to make it not trivia? (General query - I'm not asking about the specific question you guys are discussing, which I haven't even looked at in detail.)
 
Can I get enough time to make pasta o.o
 
4:18 PM
@Randal'Thor It depends. Is the question also properly motivated?
 
The "trivia" close reason is quite ... obscure at times, at least to me (and to others too, if I recall meta correctly).
@NapoleonWilson How do you mean, motivated? Isn't "because I want to know" sufficient motivation for asking a question here?
 
That's what usually makes the difference in those cases. Wanna know what car model that dude in that background scene drove or who played that dude in that 5 second scene there? I...don't know.
Tell us why you wanna know that.
@Randal'Thor It depends. If the matter itself is inherently trivial, a little context and motivation doesn't hurt.
@Randal'Thor I know. But it's neccessary for pretty much stuff like "who played that dude over there?".
 
For example, how would a question like this (which I remember mainly because of its awesomely well-researched answer) have fared on M&TV?
 
"Trivia" doesn't mean "everyone knows" (we don't necessarily close easily googlable stuff) rather than "noone cares". They might overlap sometimes, though.
@Randal'Thor It seems okay, I guess. Hard to tell. A little fleshing out surely doesn't hurt.
I know SciFi is a ton more lenient in this regard anyway.
But it might have been okay here as well.
Characters make more sense than actors anyway. Since a character implies a certain degree of significance already.
 
@NapoleonWilson Hmm, I see. That seems quite hard to define though, since clearly someone cares simply by the fact that they posted the question in the first place.
 
4:23 PM
@Randal'Thor Indeed it is. It can also be overused, I agree.
It was primarily created to shield against exactly those stupid database lookup factoids.
 
I'm probably getting mixed up with ELU in thinking about "everyone knows" as a problem.
 
@Randal'Thor Then why don't they tell us why that's so interesting?
That's my point. If it adds to your appreciation of the work, why don't you share that with us?
 
@Randal'Thor I'd say it's kinda borderline, but I wouldn't vtc it out of hand on movies
 
Often providing just a little bit of context helps to make a factoid interesting to the community at large.
 
but I def agree with @NapoleonWilson that the question could be fleshed out more with what sources they are willing ot accept answers from, even if they say both movie and book sources
 
4:27 PM
I know that close-reason is a point of controversy, especially from the way more fan-driven SciFi.SE. But I think it's a necessary one.
 
Hmm, I'm hunting for a meta post about the "trivia" close reason. Relatively recent, certainly 2015 or later. Possibly either asked or answered by @Catija. Well-received answer saying that this close reason is unclear and should perhaps be got rid of. But I'm not finding it ... do any of you guys know the one I mean?
 
The site has to struggle with many a stupid crap question, I won't deny that. And yes, that's to some degree due to the rather accessible and "trivial" topic it's about.
 
@Randal'Thor speak fo the devil, lol
 
(There, I've included a year range and the name of an actor - is that enough info for a meta ID question? :-P )
 
@Randal'Thor lol
 
4:29 PM
@Randal'Thor There was one from Catija, largely unanswered, though. But I think you mistake it for another one about the "current-events" one, which got exactly such an answer (from me) and was abolished for the "recommendation" reason.
 
13
Q: Can we please redefine "trivia"?

CatijaHere's our current definition of the off-topic reason "trivia" from the "What topics can I ask about here?" help page: Unimportant trivia that does not add to the understanding or appreciation of the title. This definition is not very useful as what one person's feeling on whether it "adds ...

 
@Mithrandir beat me to it
 
@Mithrandir Thanks! That's the one I was thinking of. No idea why it didn't show up on this search.
 
That's a good question.
 
That answer pretty much is against the banal reference kind stuff.
9
Q: Are we here to identify the random stuff that people use in films or TV shows?

CatijaAs a corollary to Should movie trivia questions be closed? I'd like to have a discussion about these sorts of questions. Personally, I find them generally pointless and I don't see why we entertain them here. Most of the time, the specific model/brand of a random item has no bearing on the fil...

 
4:33 PM
(I found that by searching for trivia in this room and looking for oneboxes.)
 
I found it in my favourites, as part of many others I planned to tackle some day.
 
@Mithrandir smart boy
 
@NapoleonWilson lol
 
Didn't you guys supposed to ask some good question by now for me to answer O.o
 
@AnkitSharma we're discussing meta stuff today it seems
 
4:35 PM
Anyway Time to search some quick pasta recipes
 
@AnkitSharma I keep distracted by people asking like the big questions about site policy all at once in chat. ;-)
 
I'm generally against close reasons for things like trivia or quality, because it goes against the DV-CV orthogonality that's supposed to be part of the SE model.
 
@NapoleonWilson I blame @Randal'Thor :P
 
I think that the "Trivia" close REASON needs some work. It implies that we're replicating IMDB by answering rather than explicitly saying "This isn't really important!
 
Geeze, I didn't realize that Ben Affleck was so darn tall. — Wayne Werner 6 mins ago
same here
 
4:36 PM
@Randal'Thor Sometimes it's just needed, though. You can't have half the site's questions downvoted to hell (or even worse, crap not downvoted at all).
 
Expanding it to something like "Unless the item has some bearing on the plot, period accuracy, meaning (including symbolism, etc), character motivation and the like then these questions are off topic"
 
Like, why don't we have recommendation questions? They're totally about movies, too.
@AnkitSharma Yeah, me neither. He seemed rather normal to me, if not even shorter than normal.
 
@NapoleonWilson I though the same but was surprised by the fact
 
The point is, though. Often some context can totally make a question reasonable. But that's the case with many things, first and foremost "unclear what you're asking" ones.
 
@NapoleonWilson Those aren't properly answerable though, so they don't really fit the SE models. Trivia questions generally are uniquely and objectively answerable.
 
4:39 PM
I would never have survived asking what car model Bruce Wayne drives in the movie, because noone really cares.
 
@NapoleonWilson because we've learned over time from other sites that they tend to be low quality with no real correct answer/s
 
@Randal'Thor They totally are. Tell us why the movie is awesome. What you're saying is that they aren't uniquely answerable. But then again, you're a Literature user, too.
 
Can't we talk about something else like why Rock is making that stupid Rampage film. Or the generic one why Rock want to jump in everything
2
 
@NapoleonWilson Fair point, I guess. You'd think people would learn after the first dozen got downvoted to hell, even if they weren't closed. But apparently not.
 
@AnkitSharma Are you talking about The Rock?
 
4:43 PM
@NapoleonWilson True, they could work in the SE model if answers were strictly enough moderated. After all, Software Recommendations and Hardware Recommendations exist. But in general they're damn hard to moderate, because you can't stop people from upvoting "watch X, it's awesome!" just because they think it's awesome too.
 
holy shit I flagged it by mistake
 
"Why are you throwing rocks in the river, Ankit?"
"I'm not throwing them - they're jumping of their own accord. Rock wants to jump in everything!"
 
sorry @NapoleonWilson
 
Oh, I was wondering for a second. ;-)
Don't worry.
 
I mean he turn up in every film
 
4:45 PM
@AnkitSharma lol
 
@Randal'Thor Well... 'xactly.
 
and this stupid white King Kong vs giant wolf concept is stupid
 
Similar to how you can't stop people giving one-liners "that's your movie". Because it's the correct answer, right? The asker couldn't care less about details. ;-)
 
@Randal'Thor yeah, we kind of learned that the hard way for lit
@NapoleonWilson yeah, I wish we could just delete those
 
4:47 PM
@DForck42 We can to some degree. And we're not too shy of doing that really.
If they have that damn tick mark, though...
 
And I hate new Jumanji too
And he will be in DCEU soon, grrrrr
 
...or are upvoted. ;-P
 
@DForck42 SFF also learned that the hard way. Recommendation questions were allowed once upon a time, but then there were some tough moderation decisions by Gilles et al in the early days and they all ended up getting nuked.
 
@steelersquirrel Hahaha. But that could lead to revenge downvoting. I have already lost faith on comment upvotes.
 
@DForck42 Is there a meta about deleting one-line ID answers? If not, I don't mind writing one.
 
4:49 PM
@AnkitSharma Sturrange indeed.
 
@Randal'Thor do eeet
 
@Randal'Thor There's a broader one.
@DForck42 But what about those precious votes? ;-)
 
Eating this dehydrated candied mixed fruits but can't make out which one is which fruit
 
@NapoleonWilson I don't provide one-line answers
 
10
Q: How to handle low quality identification answers?

Napoleon WilsonYes, I'm talking about the answers to identification questions. While we have a few measures to handle low quality identification questions to some degree, one of the problems of those kinds of questions, even the good ones, is that they encourage bad low quality one-line answers of the kind: ...

 
4:50 PM
@AnkitSharma Just eat and enjoy.
 
when I'm being lazy I just copy-paste the plot from Wikipedia, when I'm actually feeling doing the work I describe how I found it/what led me to it
 
One thing India seems to be really good at, even for someone who doesn't like spicy food, is snacks and nibbles.
 
We porobably should delete more ID-answers, so the crappy closed questions become eligible for deletion, though. ;-)
 
@Randal'Thor what's a nibble?
 
But then, I haven't been there, so I may just be going by "British Indian food", which is apparently quite different from real Indian food.
 
4:52 PM
ON the side note got the pasta recipe I can make now, 10:22 PM already
@DForck42 wikipeida plot is too long, I add IMDb plot, trailer and one self line
@Randal'Thor lol
You calling it british make it more funny
 
@NapoleonWilson Hmm, I upvoted that question, but its answer isn't really very helpful: just saying what Anime.SE does did.
@AnkitSharma Why?
 
Well, yeah...
 
Also, TL;DR, man! :-P Who's going to read all through that whole question?
 
@Randal'Thor reminded me all the "britisher" talk
 
Noone, so better ask "should we delete all the ID answers? Yes/No?". ;-)
In seriousness, though, bold markup is my TL;DR. I despise the words "TL;DR" actually appearing in a post.
 
4:58 PM
Bold markup for summaries is good, but it needs to be done in the right way ;-)
 
Holy smoke, how do I have so many badges on M&TV meta?
 
@NapoleonWilson can I start flagging terrible id answers?
 
@Randal'Thor You proposed an FR.
For tv.SE
 
@DForck42 What's that about?
@DForck42 I won't complain about flags on ID stuff. Might not lead to immediate deletion yet, though.
I haven't checked the list of post-noticed answers for quite some time either, though.
 
5:02 PM
@NapoleonWilson basically, finds any open id question that has any answers on it that is the length or shorter of a tweet (280 chars), then sorts the answers by score
 
@DForck42 wow!
 
@NogShine I dream of sql ;-)
i still need the marshal badge, so FLAG ALL THE THINGS!!!!!!!
 
Those flags will go through the community first anyway.
 
@NapoleonWilson yeah, which is more fair tbh
if/when they arent' deleted, i'll flag them later for mod attention
so... DOUBLE FLAGS!!!
 
5:13 PM
Hehe!
If the situation calmed down a little, I might go watch The Revenant now, though. ;-)
 
@DForck42 If they aren't deleted, your first round of flags won't be marked helpful, so that won't do your Marshal badge any good.
@NapoleonWilson I'm writing up a meta post ;-)
 
@Randal'Thor fair
 
@Randal'Thor means you are upto some crazy shit :P
 
And thus pasts recipe is not as quick as I though
 
5:17 PM
a one-line answer that was accepted
 
I might have opted for @DForck42's paper recipe
 
@AnkitSharma The past isn't very quick - that's why it's in the past ;-)
 
@AnkitSharma lol
 
@Randal'Thor Hmpf. :'(
@DForck42 See that little green check-mark? That ruins all the fun. ;-)
 
@Randal'Thor lol
 
5:19 PM
@NapoleonWilson Hey, why the sadface?
 
@Randal'Thor O.o
 
@Randal'Thor I'm just kidding. Your effort is totally appreciated.
 
So how many meta are we expecting O.o
 
I just thought I could finally relax and watch my movie. ;-)
 
I am Hangry, so free downvotes :P
 
5:21 PM
@AnkitSharma Just one from me ... for now.
Don't worry, I think you'll like it.
I dunno why you guys get so jumpy when I say I'm writing a meta post :-P
 
@Randal'Thor I was just kidding, I knew you would probably write a reasonable meta post.
 
@NapoleonWilson lol
 
It was just about me relaxing on my free day.
Ah, I see a red dot on the Low Quality review queue. ;-)
 
There is a red dot in VLQ
@NapoleonWilson Jinx
 
@Randal'Thor I am Hangry ( hungry +angry) , so don't take me serious
@NapoleonWilson I hate it
 
5:34 PM
Huh? You hate what?
 
He hates that red dot.
 
I encouraged him to flood us with flags. (But I also think you''re meaning something different.)
 
It is irritating to see like that review number in the old design.
 
Oh, I actually like it. If only there was also a grey dot before everything explodes.
 
I hate the new top bar, that weird red dot and waiting for food
 
5:35 PM
But I had no issues with the number in the old top bar
 
I don't particularly care about the new top-bar, apart from the lack of a review-reminder.
 
I want old top bar back
 
And it is too high! After scrolling down with the mouse wheel once, our beloved movie banners aren't tight with the top window boundary anymore!
 
@NapoleonWilson I proposed an FR for that and it got a
Dunno when it will be completed.
 
Yeah, there's multiple about that. Catija has some questions and answers for that too.
 
5:38 PM
Yeah. She mentioned my post in it. :)
 
0
Q: Should one-liner ID answers be deleted or improved?

Rand al'ThorThe problems with bad answers to ID questions have been discussed at Answering an ID Question, a PSA and How to handle low quality identification answers?, although not with any clear conclusion on how to handle them. I've also discussed, on another site, what I think makes a good ID answer. The ...

Enjoy.
 
@Randal'Thor Good you have posted the question by yourself otherwise we would see it after 2 hours if posted by @metareel
 
Oh! I thought an answer to the existing question. Wut?
 
@NapoleonWilson Meh, answers to old meta posts don't tend to get much attention.
 
I always thought it was a question.
 
5:40 PM
Posting a new question seemed like a better way to actually get some discussion going.
Maybe even a "hot meta post" on the sidebar of the main site.
 
But isn't it aksing the same thing?
We also tend to delete some of them already. So I hope noone answers with "never". ;-)
 
2
Q: How Hela can hold or break Mjolnir?

AtanuCSEI'm talking about Thor: Ragnarok trailer We know that Thor's hammer can be held only by them who are worthy of it. In the first trailer we saw Hela broke Thor's hammer. But how Hela is worthy of it. She has evil intentions and wants to destroy Asgard. Not only she held it, she broke it into p...

why it's in reopen queue
 
@NapoleonWilson Well, yours is saying "here's a problem, what shall we do?", but mine is (I think?) being more proactive about proposing a solution.
 
Question still have trailer screnshot not movie one :p
 
@AnkitSharma I guess because it could be answered now?
 
5:43 PM
It could work as an answer to yours, but then it'd probably be largely ignored.
 
Similar to SciFi's (personally rather odd) "future works" policy.
 
@AnkitSharma Because three people voted to reopen it.
 
@Randal'Thor I guess.
 
@NapoleonWilson not really answered in film itself, magic mumbo jumbo that's it
 
Not the droids answer you were looking for? :-P
 
5:44 PM
@Randal'Thor THat I can surely check but screenshot is not canon to film as in film it happen in norway not new work
 
@AnkitSharma Yeah, I'm not convinced about it either. It is asking for comics references, though. For whatever that's worth.
@Randal'Thor Well, it's a reasonable question and I upvoted it, don't worry.
 
@NapoleonWilson I meant my comment to Ankit.
 
This should be reopened as it is answerable now that the movie has been released and explains it. — J Doe Nov 6 at 3:57
 
It just feels like pretty much a duplicate of the other one. But I could get behind your viewpoint.
 
5:45 PM
@AnkitSharma Yeah, it's not. The movie doesn't adress this at all. ;-)
 
and screenshot is wrong, get the movie screenshot :p
 
I'm fine with waiting for 2 other people on that. 5 mortals closed it.
 
@NapoleonWilson same here
I don't interfere in muggle business :P
 
@NapoleonWilson Hmm, could be a candidate for migration then, if it's not reopenable here.
@AnkitSharma flags for mod There, it's your business now :-P
 
Whoever flagging, keep patience, I need to eat first :P
 
5:48 PM
Oh, a tag?
 
@Randal'Thor ohhh u are the flagger
@Randal'Thor we are so generous people here ;)
 
@AnkitSharma No, I haven't flagged anything here today.
Blame @DForck42 ;-)
@AnkitSharma You can afford to be, with your volume of meta posts.
 
No point of having diforck's question in feature tag as -ve score keep it away from bulletin @NapoleonWilson
 
Wait until you get half a dozen hot controversial meta discussions going on at the same time.
 
@AnkitSharma ?_?
 
5:51 PM
@AnkitSharma s/Dizzle/DForck?
 
Are you talking about the other guy with a D?
I'm not sure -1 keeps it out of the bulletin, though. Are you sure about that?
 
@Randal'Thor ooops
@NapoleonWilson 99% sure
 
Uhuh. We'll see then.
Can't hurt, though, I just freed up some places anyway.
 
When I made that meme meta it never came in bulletin board after getting -ve vote
 
@NapoleonWilson A negative score shouldn't keep a featured post from being featured.
 
5:54 PM
Once it switches it will be there.
 
It might stop it from appearing in the "hot meta posts" section if it's not featured, maybe.
But that's actually a good reason to feature it - if it won't have a chance of appearing in the sidebar otherwise.
 
@AnkitSharma Didn't that thing go out in a flash of a few hours? (if even that.)
 
@AnkitSharma What meme meta?
> Me, me, me - ta.
 
It's 11:24 already, is my pasta my dinner or next day brekfast O.o
 
@AnkitSharma I know, all these important policy discussions. Hmpf!
 
5:55 PM
Why do we have 27 flags on ID questions?
 
You guys did sign up for this ;-)
 
@Randal'Thor Well, you'd also think a bounty would make a heavily downvoted post appear on the front-page. It doesn't, though.
 
@Randal'Thor It was so long ago I barely remember signing up for anything ;)
 
49 mins ago, by DForck42
i still need the marshal badge, so FLAG ALL THE THINGS!!!!!!!
 
@iandotkelly We talked about one-line answers and I encouraged people to flag them.
 
5:56 PM
ahh
 
55 mins ago, by Napoleon Wilson
@DForck42 I won't complain about flags on ID stuff. Might not lead to immediate deletion yet, though.
 
Yeah - I may wait for some conclusion from the meta-discussion first
 
@iandotkelly Well, you didn't sign up, at least originally ;-)
 
That is true
 
5:57 PM
@Randal'Thor holy moly
I can get marshal if I retire
 
@AnkitSharma Aww, why deleted? :-(
 
We can at least slap some post notices on them. Or kill the ones with existing notices, downvotes and no tick marks.
 
I wonder if we could get an ID this 'book / movie / music / whatever' site going, and free this one up
 
@iandotkelly I doubt it. It has been discussed before and even proposed, I think.
Like ELL was originally founded as a low quality beginner version of ELU? ;-)
 
@NapoleonWilson Isn't the whole point of a post notice to be a warning of impending deletion if you don't fix up your post?
 
5:59 PM
@Randal'Thor Well, sure.
 
So if it's had an existing notice for a while and hasn't been improved, HAMMERTIME!
 
I guess?
As said, I haven't been through the list of post-noticed answers in a while.
 

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