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12:01 PM
Sorry, it seems I am confused about what the holonomy representation is, sorry. It's related but not this. In the Riemannian sense, holonomy group of $M$ at $T_p M$ is the subgroup of $\text{GL}(T_pM)$ of all automorphisms of the tangent space that comes from parallel transporting along loops based at $p$
That's $\text{Hol}_p(M)$. The theorem is if the representation of $\text{Hol}_p(M)$ in $T_pM$ is reducible, $M$ is a product manifold.
@TobiasKildetoft Ah, well, a Riemannian metric is just a choice of an inner product at each tangent space of $M$
Smoothly
If I recall correctly there's theorems about what subgroups of $O(n)$ can appear as $\text{Hol}_p(M)$, and when it does what can be said about $M$. IIRC there are ways to read off if a manifold admits a complex structure from it's holonomy groups.
 
@BalarkaSen I see
 
But I know none of this. Ted and Mike would be the persons to talk to
 
@BalarkaSen I was just curious about the basics
 
12:17 PM
Actually, the field of fractions of $\Bbb R[x,y]/\langle x^2+y^2-1\rangle$ is isomorphic to $\Bbb R(t)$, through $t=\frac x{y+1}$. (We have $x=\frac{2t}{1+t^2}$ and $y=\frac{1-t^2}{1+t^2}$.)
You essentially think of $x$ and $y$ as $\sin\theta$ and $\cos\theta$. Then $t$ is $\tan(\theta/2)$. It's the tangent half-angle substitution.
Alternatively, it's the parametrization of the circle.
 
I think it's a general theorem that if $X \subset \Bbb A^n$ is a subvariety of Krull dimension $\ell$, $k(X) :=\text{Frac}\, k[X]$ has transcendence degree $\ell$ over $k$
Well, for characteristic 0 and algebraically closed $k$
 
1
Q: Square of a Ring

user193319Let $R$ be a ring (not necessarily unital) generated by some element $r$; i.e., $R = (r) = \{rx + nr \mid x \in R, n \in \Bbb{Z}\}$. Is the following true: $R^2 = R$ if and only if $r = \sum_{i=1}^n a_i b_i$ for some $n \in \Bbb{N}$ and $a_i, b_i \in R$, where $$R^2 = \{ \sum_{i=1}^k x_i ...

 
Here $\ell=1$?
(I don't know what Krull dimension is)
 
Yeah, the circle is an algebraic curve.
Krull dimension is easy to define, but complicated to justify. Krull dimension of a variety $X$ is the maximal length of chains $X_0 \subset X_1 \subset \cdots \subset X_\ell$ of irreducible nonempty subvarieties of $X$.
 
For the circle you just go to the point?
 
12:27 PM
Right.
 
For like a sphere you'd go to the circle and then the point
 
Quite.
 
This turns out to be well defined
 
For $\Bbb C$, does it turn out to be the topological dimension of it when you use the usual topology?
Well, half the topological dimension I mean
 
12:30 PM
I do believe so. The point is any variety is a manifold away from a measure 0 subset.
If any notion of topological dimension does not agree with the algebraic dimension for such spaces it's not worth it's salt
 
Well for finite fields it won't :P
Well actually
 
What is a finite field?
I have never heard of them
 
What are irreducible varieties in finite fields
Are they just points
'cause every variety is the finite disjoint union of points there
If so, everything is Krull dimension zero anyway, which agrees with the topological dimension
 
@AkivaWeinberger What does it mean for a variety to be "in" a field?
 
I mean like $F_n[x,y]$ rather than $\Bbb C[x,y]$
ohh wait
we want algebraic closure for our fields don't we
 
12:34 PM
for purposes like these, yes
the definition of dimension goes to the algebraic closure to look
 
No finite algebraically closed fields :(
 
Hmm, actually, we don't need to
or do we lose the connection to how Krull dimension is defined algebraically if we don't?
 
(pretends to not hear or follow the conversation)
 
Well the fact that there are no finite fields is a corollary of the fact that all fields are algebraically closed
@BalarkaSen
 
That is correct
But it is a theorem that there are no fields of positive characteristic
Which is stronger
 
12:39 PM
@BalarkaSen That does make large parts of number theory a bit tricky :)
 
@BalarkaSen nope, entirely sincere
 
@Semiclassical It is kind of catchy.
But this made me lose my respect for Darude Sandstorm
 
$\rm du^{42}$
 
WIKID
 
Lyrics to Darude Sandstorm
 
12:43 PM
*Is contemplating a conspiracy to create a field of positive characteristic by killing of certain theorems*
https://mathoverflow.net/questions/3551/algebraically-closed-fields-of-positive-characteristic
 
@Secret We know they exist, Balarka just hates them
 
Ah, that explains why when I wondered about $\Bbb{Z}/p\Bbb{Z}$ when I read the above discussion
 
user84215
in Abstract Algebra Course, Math and Physics University, 48 secs ago, by MathematicsAminPhysics
Question: How can knowing of the automorphism group of a group be useful in studying or determining the structure of that group itself or other groups?
 
E.g. $S_5$ unsovability is tied to the nontriviality of $\text{Out}(A)$ and we produce $\text{Out}(A)$ by $\text{Aut}(A)/\text{Inn}(A)$
but for more general details, I don't know yet
 
user84215
12:59 PM
You mean $A_5$ ?
 
ah yes, sorry
that the first group to have a nontrivial (missing some words) $\text{Out}(A)$
 
I thought it was $S_6$ that had nontrivial shenanigans
 
user84215
But as far as I know, the unsolvability of $A_n$ can be proved without referring to any automorphism or outer automorphism groups.
 
Is $(4)$, the ideal generated by $4$, a maximal ideal in the ring of integers?
 
1:18 PM
no because (2) is bigger @user193319
 
Sorry I meant in the ring of even integers.
 
Hey, Laden loved anime. How about that.
 
@user193319 I guess so, yeah
I feel weird about rings without identity though
 
They are Rngs
which is... a type of semiring...?
Literature never distinguish between Rngs and Rigs
 
1:36 PM
Wut
 
ok, f*** it I made a mistake. Their technical term is Nonunital rings
so semirings are indeed those rings without additive inverses
I think I need to stop saying algebra before I finish Pintar
 
is there a name for commutative rings that have the division theorem/Bezout's lemma?
(I assume you can't have one without the other, might be wrong on that)
 
They're called Bezout domains, lol
 
nice! lol
does each imply the other?
 
If it's "breed" and "bred" it should be "reed" and "red"
"Read/read" is too confusing
 
1:52 PM
English is confusing
and how do you say it, bay-zoo?
 
Use google translate's thingy, most pronunciations are accurate
 
@AkivaWeinberger “ea” and “ee” were different vowels
 
gee each owe tea eye smells fish
 
Proof that $(4)$ is maximal in the set $E$ of even integers: Suppose that $(4) \subseteq N \subseteq E$. Since $E$ is a principal ideal ring, $N = (x)$ for some positive$x \in E$. Since $(4) \subseteq (x)$, $4 \in (x)$ which means $x|4$ and therefore either $x = 2$, in which case $(x) = E$, or $x=4$, in which case $(x) = (4)$. Hence, $(4)$ is a maximal ideal in $E$.
How does that sound?
 
or you could do it elementarily without PID @user193319
 
1:57 PM
@AkivaWeinberger Have a try at this: ncf.idallen.com/english.html
 
@LeakyNun I'm not sure what you mean. I am just using the fact that all ideals in $E$ are principal ideals, which essentially follows from the division algorithm.
 
I’m just answering the question “how does it sound”
namely it sounds like using a nuke to kill a mosquito
 
I don't think I used any nukes. I'm not even sure what PID means.
 
principal ideal domain
 
Oh. I suppose that is synonymous to "principal ideal ring."
 
2:00 PM
suppose it is. the difference isn’t relevant here
 
how does one explain topology to a non mathematicain? my parents asked me what the subject is about and i couldn't say "topological spaces"
 
Rubber sheet geometry
 
@GFauxPas topology is finding the invariant in the variant
 
That's like the most pretentious garbage I have heard in some time
It literally means nothing
 
let (4) be a proper subset of N. take an element n of N that is not in (4). By division algorithm, n=4q+r. r cannot be 0, 1, or 3. Then, n-4q = 2, so N=E. @user193319
 
2:02 PM
I like "rubber sheet geometry"
 
Topology is about properties that don't change when shape is deformed, stretched etc.
...is that a concise intuition..?
 
isn’t that what i said
 
@GFauxPas that's more "differential topology" than "topology" but it's a good metaphor
 
@BalarkaSen then go full on about homologies
 
@LeakyNun Yes, but in a pretentious, obscure way.
Homology is very easy to explain.
 
2:05 PM
Barlarka: How will you explain topology to you family members?
 
I just explain the Euler characteristic of graphs as a first example.
Very easy to do demonstrate by examples, and has a direct connection to topology (Homology @LeakyNun)
 
ok
 
an interesting question probably based on invariants
5
Q: Make all cells of the square be the same color

carat$200 \times 200$ square is colored in chess order. In each move we can take any $2 \times 3$ rectangle and change the color of all its cells. Can we make all cells of the square be the same color ? I still do not have an idea. Is this construction useful, square with every $2 \times 3$ ...

 
@Alessandro Going to listen to the We Lost The Sea album you gave me
 
2:21 PM
@BalarkaSen could you give me a degree-5 polynomial over F2 with Galois group S5?
 
Not off the top of my head, nope. Ask Mathei
 
@MatheiBoulomenos
 
Wait, can S_5 even appear as Galois group of an extension over F_2?
 
why not?
 
For homology I’d probably do something like Wiki does
 
2:23 PM
Aren't the only degree n extension of F_p isomorphic to F_p^n?
Ah, you mean, transcendental?
 
@BalarkaSen yes, and here n=120
 
So you're not wanting a degree 5 polynomial over F_2, but over a transcendental extension of F_2
Better edit that question there
 
@BalarkaSen ignore the transcendental nonsense, deleted
 
You can identify holes in a surface by drawing a circle around if and noticing that not everything inside the circle is on the surface
 
@Semiclassical Eh, I don't really like the holes analogy.
I mean, number of holes in a surface is a pretty obvious invariant of closed (orientable) surfaces
That's not where the charm of homology theory is
 
2:28 PM
Depends on your audience I guess
 
@BalarkaSen can you find a separable polynomial of degree 5 over F2?
and irreducible
 
Personally I tend to think of it in terms of integration
 
@LeakyNun There exists plenty, yes
That's how you construct F_2^5, by quotienting F_2[x] with those
 
Namely, are there nontrivial integration cycles on the surface
 
there are only 16 polynomials of degree 5 lol
”plenty”
@BalarkaSen they don’t have to be separable
 
2:31 PM
By plenty I mean at least one
@LeakyNun ? F_2^5 is a Galois extension of F_2
 
(Trivial meaning ‘contractible to a point’)
 
Of course it has to be separable
 
oh right it must be separable
but does it have to be galois?
 
Finite extensions of finite fields are normal...
 
I imagine the way $H_2$ works in like $S^2$ for example is like, if you integrate a constant function over a nullhomologic(?) thingy it's zero but over the entire thing it's nonzero
or something
 
2:34 PM
so there can’t be one with S5? @BalarkaSen
 
And in $\Bbb R^3\setminus\{0\}$, instead of a constant function, you give each tiny rectangle a value equal to the area of its projection onto $S^2$ or something
 
Nope. Every finite extension of F_p is of the form F_p^n
 
I don't know how the connection between integrals and homology works but I image it's something like that?
 
so?
 
So every extension has Galois group Z/n
 
2:35 PM
Sounds right. I don’t really have a clear sense of H_2 vs pi_2, though
 
Is this what De Rham is?
 
hmm interesting @BalarkaSen
 
F_p is like S^1 in topology
Every finite covering of S^1 is S^1 --> S^1, degree n
@AkivaWeinberger Right, this is basically de Rham.
 
Hmmm. If I want to distinguish pi_1 and H_1, the simplest example I know is a doubly-punctured plane
What’s the simplest example for pi_2 and H_2?
 
The torus
$\pi_2(T^2) = 0$, $H_2(T^2) = \Bbb Z$
the keyboard protests when i try to clean it
 
2:40 PM
Hmm
I get the latter one, I think: the torus is a surface without a boundary
 
Mhm.
 
But the former?
 
I was trying to think of the simplest explanation. The idea is, you have a universal covering map $\Bbb R^2 \to \Bbb R^2/\Bbb Z^2 = T^2$
 
I want to say it’s the fact that S^2 doesn’t embed into T^2?
 
Any map $f : S^2 \to T^2$ admits a lift $\tilde{f} : S^2 \to \Bbb R^2$ to the universal cover
Where you can nullhomotope it, and push the homotopy down to get a nullhomotopy of $f$
 
2:44 PM
@LeakyNun any extension of finite fiels has a cylcic Galois group
 
I’m trying and failing to remember whether the classification of topological defects in physics uses homotopy groups or homology groups
 
homotopy
 
Thought so
 
What's a topological defect
 
I was pretty sure about that for codimension 1 defects, but not so sure about other cases
 
2:48 PM
@Semiclassical Ah, nevermind, there's a simpler way to see $\pi_2(T^2) = 0$. Consider any map $f : S^2 \to T^2 = S^1 \times S^1$. You can write this as $f(x) = (f_1(x), f_2(x))$ where $f_1, f_2$ are the maps $S^2 \to S^1$ given by projecting $f$ to each of the circle components.
 
@Semiclassical oh, that I don't know
 
$f_1, f_2$ are nullhomotopic. So let $h^1_t, h^2_t : S^2 \to S^1$ be a homotopy between $f_1, f_2$ and the constant map $S^2 \to S^1$ to some point $0 \in S^1$
 
is this now a homotopy theory room?
 
Now let $h_t : S^2 \to T^2$ be defined by $h_t = (h^1_t, h^2_t)$. This is a homotopy from the map $f$ to the constant map to $(0, 0) \in T^2$
 
I had a good book on this at one point, and I think it was homotopy in general
 
2:50 PM
Homotopy groups of a product are the product of homotopy groups. $\pi_2(S^1)=0$ by cellular approximation
 
Pretty much what I said without quoting the theorem.
It's super easy to prove any map $S^2 \to S^1$ is nullhomotopic, you don't need cellular approximation for that.
@Mathei In fact, you cannot use cellular approximation
 
That's a statement about maps from lower dimensional CW complexes to higher dimensional
Cellular approximation is in no way applicable here
 
Cellular approximation doesn't make any assumptions on the dimensions of the CW complexes involved
It's the standard proof that $\pi_k(S^n)=0$ if $n<k$
 
@BalarkaSen for the case of point defects in the plane, see here: damtp.cam.ac.uk/research/gr/public/cs_top.html
 
2:53 PM
What you just wrote is garbage, @Mathei
 
It's not
 
$\pi_3(S^2) = \Bbb Z$, $3 > 2$
 
I’m having trouble finding a discussion of other kinds of defects though
 
Yes, and now what you said is irrelevant to $\pi_2(S^1) =0$
 
Oh, yeah I'm dumb
 
2:54 PM
they meant $k<n$
 
I should try to stick to algebra
 
No, one can use cellular approximation to show that $\pi_{k}(S^n)$ is trivial for $k<n$. Give $S^n$ a CW structure with only one $0$-cell.
 
The usual example of a point defect in 3D is the electric field of a point charge
 
@AndresMejia I agree. Mathei is claiming you can use cellular approximation to prove $\pi_2(S^1) = 0$, which you cannot.
 
@AndresMejia but that's not relevant
 
2:56 PM
@AndresMejia that argument is valid, it just doesn’t apply to the case of interest
 
The proof that $\pi_2(S^1) = 0$ again goes through the covering space argument, actually
 
Oh, I figured it was just a typo... no definitely not the latter.
 
Lift a map $S^2 \to S^1$ to $S^2 \to \Bbb R$
Nullhomotope, pushdown
 
Fine, LES of homotopy groups applied to the fibration $\Bbb Z \to \Bbb R \to S^1$
 
Pretty much literally the same as the covering space argument.
If $Y \to X$ is a covering map, $\pi_n(Y) \cong \pi_n(X)$ for $n > 1$
@Semiclassical I'll check it out, thanks
 
3:02 PM
I was thinking about point defects on manifolds as statements about vector fields on the manifold
 
@Balarka Nice, so what do you think about the album?
 
@BalarkaSen for a more authoritative treatment, see here: icmp.lviv.ua/journal/zbirnyk.46/004/art04.pdf
(“Homotopy in statistical physics”)
 
@Alessandro I ended up listening to the first 15 minutes only, but I love it already.
 
@MatheiBoulomenos how hard is it to prove that?
 
@Semiclassical Thanks a bunch, I am going to keep them open at my tab and probably give a read tonight
 
3:08 PM
Nice, I can suggest more post rock in a similar style if you like it
 
@LeakyNun not that hard
 
@MatheiBoulomenos like how
 
3:22 PM
@BalarkaSen In $\Bbb R^2\setminus2$, you have a curve that's nullhomologous but not nullhomotopic. I wonder if in $\Bbb R^3\setminus n$ you could find a surface that's nullhomologous but not nullhomotopic
(By $\Bbb R^3\setminus n$ I mean space minus $n$ points)
 
sup duds
 
Clearly you can't do it with a sphere because $\pi_2=H_2$.
My guess is no
(By a surface I mean a function whose domain is the surface, I guess? Like how a curve is a function whose domain is $S^1$)
 
so Hom(L^p,R) is isomorphic to L^q where 1/p + 1/q = 1
right?
 
this is the analytic dual right
 
I have no idea; I'm new to this
 
3:29 PM
it only makes sense that way
but yes
 
is it a term? I can't find "analytic dual"
 
like the space of continuous linear functionals
with respect to the norm
in this case anyway
 
yes, why is it L^q?
 
as opposed to the algebraic dual, which is just the space of linear funcitonals
 
3:32 PM
i dont necessarily know an intuitive reason
i guess my intuition is that it's because of Holder's inequality
 
mmhmm
 
yeah idk it also needs radon-nikodym
 
does it need argon as well?
 
It has to be. Because the norm is a linear functional on $L_p$ and then you can always find a function that saturates the Holder bound and then that gives you a connection to $L_q$
 
the Lq part is easier than showing you can find a function because of what i said
what is argon? @Leaky
 
3:41 PM
Ya I didnt think you needed anything other than Holder and the extremal equality
 
@EricSilva an element other than radon and nikodymium
 
or nicodymium idk how u spell
 
hey
 
once you know that functionals are given by integration against a function i think Lq is kind of the only possible choice
so that's the way i think of it
 
3:42 PM
I heard choice
 
Basically tfhat the norm of $f$ in $L_p$ is the max over the norm of $g f$ in $L_1$ with the norm of $g \le 1$ in $L_q$
 
Anyone here have experience with neural networks? More specifically, scaling continuous data
 
@Daruchini just scale them continuously :P
 
@LeakyNun leave
 
@EricSilva I don't have a choice to leave
 
3:44 PM
I've been scaling by minusing the mean and dividing by the SD
 
That can't be right. Radical freedom of Sartre and such
@Daruchini Ok so that noralizes everything to a gaussian with 0 mean and unit standard deviation
If it was noramlly distributed ot begin with
 
hi chat
 
@KevinDriscoll otherwise it still makes the mean 0 and the s.d. 1
 
@Semiclassical I was asking a colleague about the resurgence conference yesterday and he said "Oh damn... I was supposed to go to that"
 
@KevinDriscoll I'm reading some papers now which say I should divded by 2 SD's
 
3:47 PM
...hahahaha
 
I was tempted to use min-max normalization but decided against it as it's sensitive to outliers
but then so is z-score
 
Oh shi_
Just 4 alone and I am already dead
 
Is this open problem/trivial ?
 
4:26 PM
2
Q: Pick out the true statements.

Sriti Mallick Pick out the true statements. a. Let $f : \mathbb Z\to \mathbb Z^2$ be a bijection. There exists a continuous function from $\mathbb R$ to $\mathbb R^2$ which extends $f.$ b. Let $D$ denote the closed unit disc in $\mathbb R^2.$ There exists a continuous mapping $f : D-\{(0, 0)\}$$\t...

Can you please check the answer given by Brusko651
(c) part
Can you please reply to my question given below the answer?
 
4:56 PM
@ManeeshNarayanan WHy do you say that $\{ x \in \mathbb{R} : \lvert x \rvert > 1 \}$ is connected?
Seems clearly disconnected to me
There the x>1 piece. And the x<-1 piece
 
I am having trouble proving that if $(x)$ is prime ideal in $\Bbb{Z}$, then $(x)$ must be maximal ideal (note: I cannot use the equivalence of either of these statements with $(x)=(p)$ for some prime $p$; in fact, I am trying to prove the equivalence of these three statements). I could use a hint.
 
@Akiva For spheres, the things that are null-homologous but not null-homotopic are the elements in the kernel of the Hurewicz homomorphism, and for (n-1)-connected spaces that map is an isomorphism
I think for connected surfaces in R^3 \ n, null-homologous implies null-homotopic by arguing by hand
 
@MikeMiller isn't the torus a connected surface in R^3 \ n ?
actually, I think I see the issue with my line of thinking there
...maybe
(we argued earlier that pi_2(T^2) = 0 but H_2(T^2)=Z, hence why I'm wondering)
 
you would need to specify the embedding too
 
Iwonder when we will stop rendering our LaTeX and just always read the code directly, like The Matrix
 
5:06 PM
@user193319 Euclidean algorithm
 
@MikeMiller eh, i had the usual parametrization of a torus in R^3 in mind
i.e. as the surface you get by revolving a circle around an axis
 
@KevinDriscoll. Ok. Now I understood, i had the prejudice that it is the complement of the unit disc.
sorry
that why, I thought like that.
 
I'm guessing the torus in R^3 should not be identified with T^2, though
 
@ManeeshNarayanan Oh! No, that you definitely can find a map for. Its just $(x,y) \mapsto (\frac{x}{x^2 + y^2}, \frac{y}{x^2 + y^2})$
 
So we're asking whether homotopy classes of map from a surface to a wedge of 2-spheres are determined by the degree of the projections on each component of the wedge?
 
5:15 PM
@KevinDriscoll I have misread the question. sorry for that. Thank you very much.
 
Please verify this: If $A$ is an $m\times 1$ matrix then only row reduced echelon forms possible for $A$ are either $\begin{bmatrix}0&0&\cdots &0 \end{bmatrix}^T$ or $\begin{bmatrix}1&0&\cdots &0 \end{bmatrix}^T$
 
@PVAL-inactive Yeah...I tried that. Suppose that $(x) \subseteq (y) \subseteq \Bbb{Z}$. If I assume that $(x) \neq (y)$, then the goal is to show $1 \in (y)$ or that $y=1$; if I assume that $(y) \neq \Bbb{Z}$, then the goal would be to show $y \in (x)$, which is when I tried using the division algorithm.
 
@Semiclassical Are you talking about the same thing? Mike was responding to my question on $\Bbb R^3\setminus n$.
 
Probably not tbh
 
$\Bbb R^n \setminus S$ for a finite set $S$ deformation retracts to wedge of $S^{n-1}$'s, and $\pi_{n-1}$ of that is isomorphic to $H_{n-1}$ by Hurewicz, right?
So the answer should be "no"
 
5:23 PM
S^{n-1} isn't the interesting source.
its every other n-1 manifold.
 
but Akiva's question was about R^n minus a discrete set, wasn't it? Are we asking a more general question, now?
 
No.
but you are interested in maps M \to a wedge of S^{n-1} where M can be anything.
 
2 hours ago, by Akiva Weinberger
Clearly you can't do it with a sphere because $\pi_2=H_2$.
 
Wait, I am not doing it with a sphere. An embedded $n-1$-fold in $\Bbb R^n \setminus S$ determines a homology class in $\bigvee S^{n-1}$
 
5:30 PM
Hopf still kills the case where n=1.
 
Sure. I was wondering if you could find something that's nullhomologous and not nullhomotopic.
 
If the surface is embedded this can be killed with standard low-d topology.
You don't want to assume that.
 
The way I wrote it I allowed self-intersections
 
I see.
 
The curve example in the plane self-intersects
 
5:33 PM
Ok, let me understand what's being asked. We are asking for nullhomologous maps $M \to \bigvee S^{n-1}$ which are not nullhomotopic, right?
 
In the end, I'm pretty convinced the answer is "no" anyway
 
$M$ is an $(n-1)$-fold
 
I can probably prove no if I assume the inverse image of the wedge point is somehow nice.
 
Yeah, it's definitely impossible, I just don't know how to state it formally
Or hm actually
 
5:34 PM
(e.g. if its an S^{n-2})
 
This should be a Hopf degree theorem argument on each wedge component
 
My idea doesn't work, never mind
 
Which says $H^k(M; \Bbb Z) \cong [M, S^k]$ where $\dim M = k$ and $M$ is orientable
 
(Big Vee sounds like a wrestler name)
$\bigvee$
 
then you should be able to do an Eckmann-Hilton type argument, so the map composes as a connect sum of maps each hitting each one of the components in the wedge.
 
5:36 PM
(it suffices to assume $M$ is orientable because if it's not, just compose with the orientation double cover $\tilde{M} \to M \to \bigvee S^{n-1}$)
 
At least in surfaces if the wedge point is a regular value I could write something up.
It's still seems quite a lot more difficult than the sphere case as the boundary isn't all identified to a point.
Yeah I no longer think I can do that.
 
@PVAL you got your old gravatar back!
 
Even for S^1\times S^1 there seems to be no way to shrink blocks and move it around.
 
And hey everyone!
 
Hi Demonark, @PVAL.
 
5:41 PM
So maybe you can rig Hopf to tell you that map can be assumed to be constant on the boundary of the fundamental domain.
and then do the standard argument that shows $\pi_n$ is abelian for $n>1$.
 
This seems surprisingly complicated at a glance
 
howdy @Balarka
 
Hi Ted
 
How's everything going?
 
@Balarka @PVAL: So is it not Hurewicz? We can't get to the point of needing higher homotopy groups of spheres ...
 
5:51 PM
@Ted the question is about homotopy classes of maps from a genus g surface to a wedge of 2-spheres.
 
How is there any difference between homotopy and homology?
 
Please someone let me know if i am right: If $A$ is an $m\times 1$ matrix then only row reduced echelon forms possible for $A$ are either $\begin{bmatrix}0&0&\cdots &0 \end{bmatrix}^T$ or $\begin{bmatrix}1&0&\cdots &0 \end{bmatrix}^T$
 
Correct, @Silent.
 
Thank you :)
 
@TedShifrin A map from a genus g surface to a wedge of 2-spheres determine a homology class in the wedge; but how do you know if that class is zero then the map is nullhomotopic?
Hurewicz doesn't tell you that
If the wedge is a single 2-sphere this is Hopf degree theorem
 
5:54 PM
Hurewicz relates [S^n, X] to homology. I don't know how to relate [\Sigma_g, X] to homology (generally this isn't even a group).
 
So what happens if you lift to the universal cover?
 
Universal cover of what?
 
X is already simply-connected.
 
wedge of 2-spheres is simply connected
 
Right, and universal cover of $T_g$ is contractible.
 
5:56 PM
yeah but any nullhomotopy constructed that way certainly isn't invariant under deck transformations.
 
Yeah, right, I'm backwards.
 
@PVAL The second paragraph here is probably relevant, in the first answer
I remembered it from once upon a long time ago
I don't know how to prove this though
 

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