Jelly Hypertraining

caird coinheringaahing

09:01

@EriktheOutgolfer Did I just outgolf Dennis?

Mr. Xcoder

09:28

@cairdcoinheringaahing Outgolfing him seems... wrong

Of course it was.

caird coinheringaahing

@Mr.Xcoder yeah apparntly it was wrong :(

Mr. Xcoder

I must port his Jelly answer to Pyth, he said it would save me 3 bytes

@cairdcoinheringaahing Perhaps we should Hypertrain after that?

caird coinheringaahing

@Mr.Xcoder train what?

Mr. Xcoder

@cairdcoinheringaahing Jelly lol

caird coinheringaahing

@Mr.Xcoder obviously, but what CMC?

Mr. Xcoder

09:32

No idea. After I port his answer to Pyth, we'll find one

Cows quack

CMC: given n, find the n-th term in the sequence 1 5 14 30 55 91 140 204 285 ...

I get three bytes

Mr. Xcoder

@Cowsquack I don't even understand the rule

Cows quack

check the difference between the numbers

caird coinheringaahing

@Cowsquack square numbers

Mr. Xcoder

The differences are 4 9 16... Square numbers

I need to golf 1 more byte on my Pyth answer, will be back shortly

caird coinheringaahing

09:47

f(n) = n² + f(n-1)

Cows quack

yes

caird coinheringaahing

@Cowsquack how do you do recursion in 3 bytes?

Cows quack

you don't need recursion

caird coinheringaahing

@Cowsquack meh, I give up. Its too early in the morning for this :P

Mr. Xcoder

@Cowsquack I have 27 bytes in Python: f=lambda n:n and n*n+f(n-1)

My first recursion answer, ever

Cows quack

09:50

hint: how do you solve the nth triangular number in 2 bytes?

caird coinheringaahing

RS

Cows quack

now you have everything you need

caird coinheringaahing

@Cowsquack 3 bytes

Cows quack

bingo

Mr. Xcoder

I am back, I couldn't find the solution to my Pyth answer

caird coinheringaahing

09:52

@Cowsquack how long have you been doing Hypertraining?

Cows quack

Jun 7 at 12:34, by Erik the Outgolfer

Welcome to our class, Kritixi Lithos!

but I have not been very active since

caird coinheringaahing

@Cowsquack a month longer than me :D

Mr. Xcoder

Poll: How many tabs do you usually have open when training with Jelly?

caird coinheringaahing

@Mr.Xcoder at least 5

Chat room, TIO, Atoms, Quicks, Tutorial, plus anything else I'm supposed to be doing

Cows quack

at least 3 or 4

Mr. Xcoder

09:55

@cairdcoinheringaahing I have 4, I don't have tutorial

Cows quack

depending on the difficulty of the problem

caird coinheringaahing

@Mr.Xcoder tutorial is the only way to get string stuff and chain separators

brb getting coffee

Mr. Xcoder

Another CMC? The one above became obvious when you said "triangular numbers", so...

caird coinheringaahing

@Mr.Xcoder Chat Mega Challenge! Do all the challenges in this

Mr. Xcoder

@cairdcoinheringaahing That's a bit too mega, choose one

caird coinheringaahing

09:58

@Mr.Xcoder how about this one?

Mr. Xcoder

@cairdcoinheringaahing That's even more MEGA, I know that challenge

caird coinheringaahing

Don't look at Dennis's answers, 19 bytes :P

Mr. Xcoder

@cairdcoinheringaahing I won't even solve that one

caird coinheringaahing

@Mr.Xcoder golf as many as you can then

Mr. Xcoder

@cairdcoinheringaahing Ok, after I golf my Pyth answer....

Cows quack

10:01

CMC: this sequence: 1 -2 3 -4 5 -6 7 -8 ...

Mr. Xcoder

@Cowsquack The nth number?

Cows quack

given n, generate the first n terms of the sequence

Mr. Xcoder

@Cowsquack This seems cool, can't wait to try it :)

@Cowsquack Would ¦ and N be useful?

Cows quack

Idk, I haven't started on it yet :P

caird coinheringaahing

@Cowsquack 4 bytes

Cows quack

10:11

what does ¦ do?

caird coinheringaahing

@Cowsquack applies an atom to specific indicies of a list

Mr. Xcoder

@Cowsquack <link><indexes>¦ - applies the link to specific indexes

caird coinheringaahing

@Cowsquack For example, this only adds the argument to elements at the indexes [1, 3, 5]

Mr. Xcoder

Rm2 this gets the odd indexes, right?

caird coinheringaahing

@Mr.Xcoder Yeah I think so

@Mr.Xcoder yes

Mr. Xcoder

10:15

RNm2¦ generates [-1, -1, -3, -4, -5] :/

caird coinheringaahing

@Mr.Xcoder because you need the other call to range

Mr. Xcoder

@cairdcoinheringaahing RNRm2¦ wouldn't work

caird coinheringaahing

@Mr.Xcoder yeah, just tried it. :/ There is a 1 byte method of getting the odd indexes though

Mr. Xcoder

@cairdcoinheringaahing Why would it return nothing?

caird coinheringaahing

@Mr.Xcoder its Jelly

Mr. Xcoder

10:17

RḤ? Or similar, in different order

caird coinheringaahing

@Mr.Xcoder all I can say is try it :P

Mr. Xcoder

That would generate exactly what we need [2, 4, 6, 8, 10, 12, 14, 16, 18, 20]

This works, I think it is valid

caird coinheringaahing

@Mr.Xcoder check mine ^ :D

Mr. Xcoder

@cairdcoinheringaahing Ok

@cairdcoinheringaahing ಠ_ಠ

caird coinheringaahing

@Mr.Xcoder I hope you didn't copy it ;)

Mr. Xcoder

10:20

@cairdcoinheringaahing I didn't... You could have just told me they are identical in the first place

caird coinheringaahing

@Mr.Xcoder another CMC?

Mr. Xcoder

Sure

Don't spoiler, such that you can be confident I didn't copy, right?

caird coinheringaahing

@Mr.Xcoder sure, I won't give you mine

@Mr.Xcoder given a number n, calculate n factorial without using !

Mr. Xcoder

@cairdcoinheringaahing Ok

caird coinheringaahing

@Mr.Xcoder Do you want a bytecount to go for?

Mr. Xcoder

10:23

@cairdcoinheringaahing Why not

caird coinheringaahing

@Mr.Xcoder 2 bytes

Mr. Xcoder

@cairdcoinheringaahing This one was easy

Range+Product

caird coinheringaahing

@Mr.Xcoder how about making a quine?

Mr. Xcoder

@cairdcoinheringaahing I have never written one

Especially a proper one

caird coinheringaahing

@Mr.Xcoder try it in Jelly then (no reading the source code)

Mr. Xcoder

10:25

SO....

@cairdcoinheringaahing I have no idea where to start

caird coinheringaahing

@Mr.Xcoder read through these

Mr. Xcoder

Fine

Jelly codepage first?

ØJ?

caird coinheringaahing

@Mr.Xcoder no, look for the word "quine"

Mr. Xcoder

Cheat for quine

caird coinheringaahing

@Mr.Xcoder it doesn't go against PPCG rules, so if you use ØV or Øv, it still counts

Mr. Xcoder

10:30

Byte count?

caird coinheringaahing

@Mr.Xcoder 3 bytes is the minimum, but its tricky

Mr. Xcoder

I am convinced the 3 byte once doesn't use ØV or Øv

caird coinheringaahing

@Mr.Xcoder you're right there. But they still lead to the right path

Mr. Xcoder

@cairdcoinheringaahing So I should start writing a quine with them, first?

caird coinheringaahing

@Mr.Xcoder experiment with what they output, and add or remove characters that don't seem to help

Mr. Xcoder

10:36

I was very curious what Ṙv and noticed that by removing v, Ṙ as a stand-alone is really interesting

caird coinheringaahing

It is definitely helpful, I can tell you that

Mr. Xcoder

For example, Ṙ6 prints “”6 .

Also, 4ṘṘ prints 444 and ṘṘ4 prints “”“”4

caird coinheringaahing

6ṘṘ => 666 Dennis and Jelly are clearly the devil D:

Mr. Xcoder

Lol

Ṙ”Ṙ prints: “”Ṙ... I feel like I am very close

I should read up on Ṙ

> Print a string representation of z, without a linefeed. Returns z.

caird coinheringaahing

For some reason, Ṙ”Ṙ prints 00Ṙ for me on TIO

Mr. Xcoder

10:41

@cairdcoinheringaahing tio.run/##y0rNyan8///hzhmPGuYCyf///wMA

caird coinheringaahing

@Mr.Xcoder you've got a argument added

Mr. Xcoder

@cairdcoinheringaahing I spot the problem, I had 1 command arg empty, forgot to remove it

Ṙ“Ṙ”Ṙ prints 00“Ṙ”Ṙ

I just need the first one somehow

@cairdcoinheringaahing Solved it in 4 bytes: “Ṙ”Ṙ

caird coinheringaahing

@Mr.Xcoder good. Where can you remove a byte?

Mr. Xcoder

@cairdcoinheringaahing Hm....

Oh god, those quotes for one character are redundant!

@cairdcoinheringaahing :) ”ṘṘ

caird coinheringaahing

@Mr.Xcoder there you go. I've gtg rn so bye!

Mr. Xcoder

10:46

@cairdcoinheringaahing Bye

Erik the Outgolfer

12:14

@cairdcoinheringaahing yeah...basically you can't outgolf with an invalid answer ;) (I know you couldn't delete the message lol)

btw I've only managed to outgolf Dennis once...basically since Dennis is a mathematician or something

caird coinheringaahing

@EriktheOutgolfer I tried to make my answer work again with the method I took, but it cam out at about 12 bytes, so I gave up :(

Erik the Outgolfer

btw I think mr xcoder succeeded in writing a quine

caird coinheringaahing

@EriktheOutgolfer yeah I saw. Its the same as the one in the quine challenge, but I'm pretty sure he didn't copy it

Erik the Outgolfer

probably not, since if he wants to learn jelly he shouldn't look for spoilers lol

caird coinheringaahing

@EriktheOutgolfer when I started, I thought that I could just look on main for the answers, then realised that it wouldn't help me, so I stopped :P

Erik the Outgolfer

12:24

yeah that's why we have the first "rule" here...

caird coinheringaahing

@EriktheOutgolfer I was goning to try the binary wall challenge on main in Jelly, but would up with about 20 bytes because of padding, so posted a joke answer

Erik the Outgolfer

@cairdcoinheringaahing actually I think that's easy at a quick glance

caird coinheringaahing

@EriktheOutgolfer so did I, but then the part about right padding got long, because Jelly doesn't have a builtin for it

Erik the Outgolfer

@cairdcoinheringaahing oh it's not allowed (like you said in your answer)

> Input must be taken in base 10, if your language accepts other bases you cannot use them.

but I can do it in 9 bytes lol

caird coinheringaahing

@EriktheOutgolfer yeah, but you're a Jelly teacher, and I'm a level 1

Erik the Outgolfer

12:32

yeah I know...that's why I give you a hint: zip

(btw I'll let you figure out and post yourself)

caird coinheringaahing

@EriktheOutgolfer is Dennis ok? Its been 2 hours and he hasn't posted a 3 byte Jelly answer, something must be wrong.

Erik the Outgolfer

@cairdcoinheringaahing because it's clearly impossibly in three bytes

and he's apparently a human

Mr. Xcoder

Hi again

I was wondering what's your byte count for this: CMC: [-1, 2, -3, 4, -5, 6, ...], first n terms (n ≥ 1)

caird coinheringaahing

@Mr.Xcoder me or erik?

Mr. Xcoder

@cairdcoinheringaahing Any of you

Erik the Outgolfer

12:44

@Mr.Xcoder 5 lol

Erik the Outgolfer

12:56

@cairdcoinheringaahing well, okay if you want to give up so hard

caird coinheringaahing

@EriktheOutgolfer I'm too tired to Jelly right now :P besides I have other work that I really need to get to

Erik the Outgolfer

ok then

@Mr.Xcoder hi

Mr. Xcoder

@EriktheOutgolfer Hi

totallyhuman

Boo

Erik the Outgolfer

well, have you done the challenge to dj yet?

Mr. Xcoder

13:00

@EriktheOutgolfer Which?

Erik the Outgolfer

this one

Mr. Xcoder

Oh, no.

Erik the Outgolfer

remember, As go to first column, B go to second column etc

wanna have a go at it?

Mr. Xcoder

Sure

I have some ideas from my Pyth answer yesterday on it

Erik the Outgolfer

also remember I can do it in 10 bytes

Mr. Xcoder

13:02

I think I'll use assorted nilads

Erik the Outgolfer

you only get A-Z or a-z input, but case is consistent

Mr. Xcoder

@EriktheOutgolfer I will have to pick one, alright

Erik the Outgolfer

pick whatever's better for you (I remember you went with lowercase in pyth yesterday)

Mr. Xcoder

@EriktheOutgolfer It's essentially the same thing

@EriktheOutgolfer Did you use (many) quicks?

Erik the Outgolfer

just one

Mr. Xcoder

13:04

€?

Erik the Outgolfer

@Mr.Xcoder nope

Mr. Xcoder

@EriktheOutgolfer I think I'll use it first

Erik the Outgolfer

ok then

Mr. Xcoder

@EriktheOutgolfer If I want to go through a String and map its indexes into another one, how would I go about this?

Erik the Outgolfer

what do you mean?

like, translate?

Mr. Xcoder

13:08

For example, I want to map the indexes of the input "PLAY" into ØA.

16, 12, 1, 25

Erik the Outgolfer

like, “PLAY”(stuff)ØA?

Mr. Xcoder

Perhaps y ?

Erik the Outgolfer

no that's for translation

unfortunately that's only possible in 3 bytes: i@€

Mr. Xcoder

Thanks

NOOO, I just lost my work because I accidentally hit cmd+Q... I must start over

Erik the Outgolfer

I don't think chrome has ctrl/cmd+q lol another reason to install chrome

Mr. Xcoder

13:13

@EriktheOutgolfer Any app has CMD+Q on mac. It's like ALT+F4

Erik the Outgolfer

darn...it must be annoying right?

Mr. Xcoder

@EriktheOutgolfer It is. Especially when (out of reflex) hit Q instead of V in CMD+V

(paste)

Erik the Outgolfer

have you done anything yet?

Mr. Xcoder

Yep

i@€ØA for now

Erik the Outgolfer

so that's how you get the indices

Mr. Xcoder

13:16

Already wasted 5 bytes LOL

Erik the Outgolfer

don't worry about that rn

Mr. Xcoder

I have i@€ØA×” Y+, but It does not give correct results just yet

                P
L            A
Y

Erik the Outgolfer

umm, + adds two numbers, why would you need that here?

you may be interested in ; instead

Mr. Xcoder

@EriktheOutgolfer I have i@€ØA×” +³Y now

I am one space off

totallyhuman

there's a builtin for a space

Mr. Xcoder

13:20

@totallyhuman Which?

Erik the Outgolfer

⁶

totallyhuman

⁶

urgh ninja'd

Erik the Outgolfer

it works if you have <4 command line arguments

Mr. Xcoder

I have 11 bytes: spoiler

@EriktheOutgolfer I dunno how to use ;

Erik the Outgolfer

it's just concatenate

e.g. [1, 2, 3] ; [4, 5, 6] -> [1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6]

non-list arguments are treated as singleton lists

note that jelly strings are like this: ['P', 'L', 'A', 'Y']

Mr. Xcoder

13:25

@EriktheOutgolfer How would that be helpful?

You mean, this: tio.run/##ASQA2/9qZWxsef//aUDigqzDmEHigJnDl@KBtivCs1n///…

Erik the Outgolfer

+ would generate python strings, e.g. ”P+”L+”A+”Y -> 'PLAY' ≠ ['P', 'L', 'A', 'Y']

jelly doesn't have native support for those

only rarely is abusing that useful

Mr. Xcoder

@EriktheOutgolfer Can you show me how to use ; here?

I don't place it correctly, I think

Erik the Outgolfer

link?

Mr. Xcoder

to what?

Erik the Outgolfer

the ; thing

Mr. Xcoder

13:28

tio.run/##ASQA2/9qZWxsef//aUDigqzDmEHigJnDl@KBtjvCs1n///…

I don't place it/use it correctly

And I have no idea where I should put it

Erik the Outgolfer

that's the quick I was talking about

caird coinheringaahing

Jelly is taking over my life!

Erik the Outgolfer

it's correctly placed, but it needs a quick for it to work

Mr. Xcoder

@EriktheOutgolfer Wait, isn't € the quick?

@EriktheOutgolfer Ok

Erik the Outgolfer

nope I meant the quick in my version

caird coinheringaahing

13:30

@EriktheOutgolfer you know the keyboard thing for Jelly on the github page? I saw that, and now I'm trying to make something like that in tkinter.

Erik the Outgolfer

heh I just use compose key lol (that is, I use linux too)

caird coinheringaahing

@EriktheOutgolfer it saves me from having to copy paste everything, plus its linked to the Jelly interpreter but the prediction for the key is impossible.

Mr. Xcoder

@EriktheOutgolfer I cannot find the quick

@EriktheOutgolfer Found it: i@€ØA’×⁶;"³Y

Erik the Outgolfer

yep that's it

Mr. Xcoder

Now... to golf it

Erik the Outgolfer

13:32

but you're using ×⁶ while you can use ⁶ẋ lol

Mr. Xcoder

Isn't that the same thing?

Erik the Outgolfer

that still generates stuff like ' ' instead of [' ', ' ', ' ', ' ', ' ']

and no it's not the same × is python's * and vectorizes

Mr. Xcoder

i@€ØA’⁶ẋ;"³Y

Erik the Outgolfer

yeah...do you know why ⁶ẋ works here?

Mr. Xcoder

@EriktheOutgolfer Nope

caird coinheringaahing

13:34

@EriktheOutgolfer If I type y, its supposed to come up with buttons for Y¥yỴẎỵẏ but it only comes up with Yy because Python hates me.

Mr. Xcoder

Because it vectorizes?

Erik the Outgolfer

@cairdcoinheringaahing that's not how compose key works

Mr. Xcoder

@cairdcoinheringaahing Why don't you use a custom keyboard layout instead?

Erik the Outgolfer

@Mr.Xcoder vectorization is one thing, python string generation is another

Mr. Xcoder

@EriktheOutgolfer do you know why ⁶ẋ works here?. Why?

caird coinheringaahing

13:35

@EriktheOutgolfer @Mr.Xcoder I use windows UK keyboard so I can't access the other keys, and I can't be bothered to buy a different one

Erik the Outgolfer

@Mr.Xcoder oh

it's a nilad-dyad pair that's why

Mr. Xcoder

@EriktheOutgolfer Jelly just became more interesting

Do you reveal yours?

Or keep it safely, and give us hints?

Erik the Outgolfer

uppercase version spoiler

(don't immediately click ;) )

caird coinheringaahing

@EriktheOutgolfer FYI I might drop in and out today, as I work (btw ^ is clever)

Erik the Outgolfer

you meant ^^^ not ^^ right?

caird coinheringaahing

13:38

@EriktheOutgolfer your code

Erik the Outgolfer

yeah

Mr. Xcoder

Ok, I am tired of Pyth beating Jelly (for this CMC), so I will pick another one from the list caird gave me earlier

caird coinheringaahing

@Mr.Xcoder what list did I give you?

Mr. Xcoder

@cairdcoinheringaahing You linked me a mega list earlier

4 hours ago, by caird coinheringaahing

@Mr.Xcoder Chat Mega Challenge! Do all the challenges in this

caird coinheringaahing

@Mr.Xcoder oh yeah, Martin's list of challenges! FYI, try them in Cthulhu when Its finished

Mr. Xcoder

13:42

@cairdcoinheringaahing I will try them now, because Cthulhu will follow the docs I've written before.

But Jelly + Pyth + Cthulhu develoment / training is exhausting

caird coinheringaahing

@Mr.Xcoder tell me about it. I've got about 10 languages status-in-development and whenever I work on them, I begin comparing them to Jelly.

Mr. Xcoder

I will probably ask for tips

caird coinheringaahing

I just realized that I had a second tab for Hypertraining open, with 137 unread messages in it :P

Erik the Outgolfer

that happens more often with tnb though

→ 13 messages moved to [Development of Cthulhu ](chat.stackexchange.com/rooms/62363/development-of-cthulhu)

totallyhuman

14:10

there's a space in the name ಠ_ಠ

caird coinheringaahing

19:46

@EriktheOutgolfer do you have a puzzle for me to do?

Erik the Outgolfer

afraid not atm I may have to go in a bit

caird coinheringaahing

@EriktheOutgolfer ok bye!

totallyhuman

lol

Mr. Xcoder

@cairdcoinheringaahing CMC: Given a String, print all its uppercase vowels.

caird coinheringaahing

@Mr.Xcoder is y a vowel?

Mr. Xcoder

19:52

@cairdcoinheringaahing Up to you to decide

caird coinheringaahing

How has Dennis not added this as a nilad?

totallyhuman

it's there at the bottom

Mr. Xcoder

@cairdcoinheringaahing Target byte count (for yours)?

caird coinheringaahing

I got 5 bytes for yours

Mr. Xcoder

@cairdcoinheringaahing Well done

For yours?

caird coinheringaahing

19:54

@Mr.Xcoder I'm doing it now but 3 bytes (maybe)?

Yeah, 3 bytes

Mr. Xcoder

@cairdcoinheringaahing Can you please not spoiler anymore?

caird coinheringaahing

@Mr.Xcoder oh yeah, sorry. I'm used to the teachers asking me for solutions. Should I use spoiler or just post after you?

Mr. Xcoder

@cairdcoinheringaahing After me, on your CMCs

caird coinheringaahing

@Mr.Xcoder sure

Mr. Xcoder

This one is quite easy anyway: Ṁ,Ṃ

caird coinheringaahing

19:57

@Mr.Xcoder How many of the easy challenges they've linked to have you done?

Mr. Xcoder

@cairdcoinheringaahing About... 0

caird coinheringaahing

@Mr.Xcoder of these

Mr. Xcoder

Ah, those

Lemme count

@cairdcoinheringaahing 18

caird coinheringaahing

I've got 6 left. Which ones (not including strings) haven't you done?

Mr. Xcoder

No, 20

@cairdcoinheringaahing Not including Strings:

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