The Ink Spot

WaikeCU

07:08

gm all!

William Mariager

07:57

Who in their right mind thought groups and layers should be the same thing?

I have an InDesign document where I'm using layers to control localization.

So there's an LANG_EN for English, LANG_FR for French, and so on.

But I can't group any of the elements together to ensure they're always moved together. Because then they're all the same layer.

PieBie

09:19

I strongly disagree with the sentiment "[...] the context of desktop publishing and the design of 'pages' (which doesn't actually have to be a physical 'page' at all... a web page for example completely fits here)."

The concept of a webpage being like a physical page is very, very outdated imo. This approach does not work on a fluid and responsive web and is exactly the thinking that hurts websites more than it helps them. Just take a look at the Awwwards nominees in the last two years. None of those sites are "like a page".

Cai

@PieBie I get what you're saying but I don't see why the concept of a "page" needs to be static? A fluid layout is still a layout... the "page" part of "page layout" doesn't mean, to me, "this is static"

and if it isn't considered "page layout" then you use composition...

PieBie

To me, when I hear the word page, the first association is with print. Which is by definition static. And I think this goes for most people (although I cannot prove this).
It just seems to me that 'page-layout' is a more specific form of 'layout' that is unnecessary. So I would suggest killing off 'page-layout' for just 'layout' and keeping 'composition' totally separate

Cai

having just had a look at Awwwards.... most of those are very much definitely pages

@PieBie that is what I wanted to do initially. My only problem with that is "layout" to a lot of people means the same as composition.... argh. I really don't know now....

PieBie

I think layout and composition are not the same thing, although I do agree that to most people these will be 'kinda synonyms'

maybe we're all just over-thinking this

If we agree with Pixelsnader that Layout is a subset of Composition
And we agree that Page-Layout is a more specific form of Layout
Then

Page-layout < Layout < Composition

Cai

09:38

Conceptually I can totally agree with that

I just don't know if that works as a tag structure

hmmmm

PieBie

I think we should just have the one tag: Composition

since any layout question is automatically a composition question

and to most people they are 'kinda synonyms' anyway

johnp

10:44

@PieBie I agree with this. Composition could apply to kinetic type motion graphics or any medium really so in that sense I think it's wrong to remove one over the other

burn the page-layout if any >:)

The only things I can think of off the top of my head where Page-layout > Layout so to speak would be with special printing considerations like bleed, imposition, slugs, printers marks etc but we have tags for those so that should be covered?

Ryan

12:43

@PieBie @Cai --- perhaps based on what I'm reading the solution would be:

A. Create a tag Desktop-Publishing.
B. Merge many (maybe all) Page-Layout questions into Desktop-Publishing
C. Merge many (maybe all) Layout questions into Composition

Reading through Page-Layout nearly all of them are essentially Desktop Publishing questions.

If we accept the answer on, graphicdesign.stackexchange.com/questions/94043/…, as pretty well worded than we can all agree Page Layout < Layout < Composition

Except when I read through actual questions - none of them refer strictly to layout

They either refer to Composition as a whole or how to do something in Desktop-Publishing [InDesign]

This new question for example could be tagged Desktop-Publishing: graphicdesign.stackexchange.com/questions/74420/…

While this new question for example could be tagged Composition: graphicdesign.stackexchange.com/questions/86225/…

Ryan

12:57

heya @Vincent how are you?

Vincent

I'm good. starting to relax a bit. You?

PieBie

@Ryan I think I can live with that :)

and heya @Vin

Vincent

hey @Pie

how's Belgian life?

Ryan

I'm good. Really starting to enjoy D&D. Sadly Vincent doesn't get played anymore :( Stopped going to that group. I still have his character sheets though

PieBie

@Vincent dreary atm, the weather can't decide if it wants to be sunny or rainy, so it's a bit of both :S

apart from that: i'm good

Vincent

13:02

@Ryan yeah but you have another better group, right?

Ah yeah it's the same here @Pie

Ryan

yep yep. lots of fun now that its settled down and gotten a fairly consistent group. for a while people were changing every week

Vincent

ah that's good. continuity is key

Ryan

you been playing any interesting games?

Vincent

yes, lots. :)

This has been a mainstay with us for at least half a year now

boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/167791/terraforming-mars

I wrote my 12th play just yesterday and the game keeps on surprising me

or i'm just stupid enough to keep on playing it wrong XD

I think it's one of the best games to come out the last couple of years

Ryan

sounds interesting and complex

how long does a game take?

Vincent

13:11

about 30-40 minutes per player

Ryan

and you can really play it with only 1 player?

page says so

Vincent

there is a solo variant I haven't tried my hand at yet

you have to achieve certain goals within a set number of turns

I prefer playing with opponents. I have console and steam for solo play :P

Ryan

brandless.com

I find it ironic their logo is a registered trademark

Vincent

lol

Ryan

13:42

0

A: Merge suggestion: [layout] and [page-layout]

My new suggestion after extensive talking to others as well as reading questions currently in layout composition and page-layout is as follows: We create a new tag, desktop-publishing and turn it into a synonym and merger for page-layout. All of the questions under page-layout, would fit under d...

:\ this company wants more than twice the cost of a half page ad for a full page ad. That's so strange

Webster

15:53

terraforming mars looks awesome

we're way into boardgames

discovered "ticket to ride" recently

obsessed

johnp

20:15

@Ryan I was really impulsive and bought a bronica lol. I put a crazy low bid on it and won, suprisingly...I have no self control

Ryan

20:28

nice!!

I almost bought a Kiev the other day. Was glancing at russian lenses that seem to have settled back down to dirt cheap prices and then glanced at the Kiev and almost bought one

I have less impulse than you lol

well at least with cameras

what did you get exactly and any lenses with it @johnp

johnp

i didnt expect to win it! it's just a body so I'm gunna have to build up the rest over time. Was only 50 quid though! I was looking at the kievs too. The only thing that put me off them is the flash sync speed is only 1/30.

a bronica sq

Ryan

oh so you don't even have a back or prism or anything on it?

johnp

@Ryan camera-wiki.org/wiki/Bronica_SQ

nah but im gunna take it easy and get em bit by bit. the backs are about 30, same for a waist finder

Ryan

that'll be cool. Show some photos when you take a few

johnp

yeah i will, i hope it arrives in working condition lol

Ryan

20:46

I really think if my camera keeps acting up Ill end up getting a Pentax before the end of the year. Maybe get a Pentax crop sensor until I can spring for the 645

Next thing I buy will definitely be filters. Didn't get them in time for the last round of trips but I will have them before October

johnp

Such a shame :/ You don't think you'll get anyone to look at it then? There's usually some legendary old technician in every country that specializes in fixing the impossible lol

Ryan

i think Im trying to find an excuse to get a weather sealed medium format camera ;)

johnp

it looks like it! is that new fuji mf one weather sealed? some of the x series are

im conscious of taking over chat with photography talk again so i better stop lol

Ryan

21:14

what's wrong with photography chat? its not like the place was busy with graphic design chat

I think the new Fuji is weather sealed

johnp

@Ryan so it is. bit steeper than the pentax though... doubt you'd consider a digital back on a film camera? used are a lot cheaper

Ryan

Really? I thought digital backs were very expensive?

I honestly don't really understand how they work

johnp

me too, but supposedly they've come down a lot in price for used ones... http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mamiya-645AFD-II-w-Phase-One-P45-Digital-Back-39MP-297-/201983380571?hash=item2f0725cc5b:g:o~0AAOSwmNlZY8tL
there are cheaper backs but i figure you'd want a fairly high MP one

lol i have no idea either, i think you just use them like a film back module, though i really know nothing about the quality... phase one and mamiya leaf are the main brands i recognize but there seem to be plenty others too and some fitting hasselblad

Ryan

21:41

yeah I don't know

also those old medium formats aren't weather sealed so kinda defeats some of the point

can't have it rusting and destroying whatever back goes in it

johnp

yup true that

Ryan

Fuji large format lenses look real cheap

maybe I should give that a shot. Think large format looks fun and its definitely lighter than a digital medium

johnp

21:56

for landscape, i think you'd enjoy that

Ryan

Do you know of Lake Tahoe?

johnp

yeah i recognize it. planning a trip?

Ryan

Yep. Going in October for work

Won't be snowing

Then Joshua Tree National Park in November

johnp

looks amazing. will you have your new setup by then dya think?

Ryan

not sure. I plan to have filters and either rent or buy a lens for it though

im really hoping the conference goes well otherwise it's going to look like I just took a vacation on the company dime lol

its a very short conference so trying to schedule some other meetings and stuff as well to justify the cost

johnp

22:11

lol planning conferences around photo locations ftw

Ryan

one of the associations we sponsor and advertise with and such does two big conferences each year one in Silicon Valley and one in Orange County (outside Los Angeles) but last year they started a smaller more focused show for some of their larger members. They send out a survey to their members to determine where to do it. Last year it was in Santa Barbara but was sold out before I could get us in

1.21 gigawatts

Does anyone use radiusX and radiusY on rectangles or have even heard of them versus of just using radius?

Ryan

@ZachSaucier was just in here for a second and might be your best bet

@johnp maybe instead I should just buy a Drone already. Not sure how easy it would be to manage when I also have to bring all sorts of work stuff though

johnp

@Ryan sign up to their newsletter lol. Lake Tahoe is stunning.

Ryan

@johnp what do you mean signup to their newsletter?

and yeah Emerald Bay is exactly where I just had open also

johnp

22:20

@Ryan ah i was just joking about getting on that conference that sold out

Ryan

oh, I paid to increase our membership from "Affiliate" to "Premium" basically so now we get earlier notification. I was the first one to signup for Tahoe and it sold out later that day.

ooh I actually really like the way Lake Aloha looks. I think I'll head there as well or instead

flickr.com/photos/telegirl/1352948250

yeah for photography I think thats a lot better than Tahoe. If its shallow and there's islands out like that I'll be able to walk on it'll be awesome

johnp

the water is so clear. might be able to get some nice reflections of the surrounding mountains

Zach Saucier

22:42

@1.21gigawatts yes, it depends on what you need to make

related: stackoverflow.com/a/18260710/2065702

Zach Saucier

23:01

art comic dump

example from the list

Webster

23:26

Tahoe is my happy place

4 hour drive

BESW

Sidney Padua: writing an 'imaginary' comic on Lovelace & Babbage was like a 'sandbox of elements'; playful and some… https://twitter.com/i/web/status/884824954604310529

Tweeted by CambridgeMaths on July 11, 2017 at 5:21 PM

Webster

on the slopes at open

Hi BESW, I like your posts

High brow comic theory

BESW

[wave] Hi. Most of my actual graphic design work is kinda niche for the site, but I try to share anything that comes across my path which others might find interesting/useful.

And I know that at least one user in this chat is reading comics as reference for illustration and layout concepts.

Webster

Nice. What kind of work do you do?

comics are a ricjh source of inspiration

BESW

I'm a print layout designer and illustrator, mostly, with a specialty in working with clients who haven't identified their needs yet and with publications that navigate cultural contact zones.

Webster

23:31

Very cool. LOL at "Clients that haven't identified their needs"

I have those

cultural contact zones?

I remember you talking about studying the Pacific languages

BESW

My most visible work is with my local university where I make their theater posters, do logos and publications for conferences, and multilingual book and magazine layout.

Webster

How very cool! And lucky, getting to design for a living

you made this room?

BESW

I did not, I'm just one of the "owners" who's been given demi-mod powers over it.

Webster

Aaah got it. I'm new here

BESW

Welcome!

Sam and Fuzzy turned 15 this year and was nominated for a Shuster award! So here, have a free ebook of Vol 1… https://twitter.com/i/web/status/884858136070205440

Tweeted by samandfuzzy on July 11, 2017 at 7:33 PM

Since Graphic Design is so very focused on web design, I generally just act like a curated Twitter bot and remind people to be nice. I'm much more active on Role-playing Games, and I'm trying to help Literature get on its feet.

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