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7:08 AM
gm all!
7:57 AM
Who in their right mind thought groups and layers should be the same thing?
I have an InDesign document where I'm using layers to control localization.
So there's an LANG_EN for English, LANG_FR for French, and so on.
But I can't group any of the elements together to ensure they're always moved together. Because then they're all the same layer.
1 hour later…
9:19 AM
I strongly disagree with the sentiment "[...] the context of desktop publishing and the design of 'pages' (which doesn't actually have to be a physical 'page' at all... a web page for example completely fits here)."

The concept of a webpage being like a physical page is very, very outdated imo. This approach does not work on a fluid and responsive web and is exactly the thinking that hurts websites more than it helps them. Just take a look at the Awwwards nominees in the last two years. None of those sites are "like a page".
@PieBie I get what you're saying but I don't see why the concept of a "page" needs to be static? A fluid layout is still a layout... the "page" part of "page layout" doesn't mean, to me, "this is static"
and if it isn't considered "page layout" then you use ...
To me, when I hear the word page, the first association is with print. Which is by definition static. And I think this goes for most people (although I cannot prove this).
It just seems to me that 'page-layout' is a more specific form of 'layout' that is unnecessary. So I would suggest killing off 'page-layout' for just 'layout' and keeping 'composition' totally separate
having just had a look at Awwwards.... most of those are very much definitely pages
@PieBie that is what I wanted to do initially. My only problem with that is "layout" to a lot of people means the same as composition.... argh. I really don't know now....
I think layout and composition are not the same thing, although I do agree that to most people these will be 'kinda synonyms'
maybe we're all just over-thinking this
If we agree with Pixelsnader that Layout is a subset of Composition
And we agree that Page-Layout is a more specific form of Layout
Page-layout < Layout < Composition
9:38 AM
Conceptually I can totally agree with that
I just don't know if that works as a tag structure
I think we should just have the one tag: Composition
since any layout question is automatically a composition question
and to most people they are 'kinda synonyms' anyway
1 hour later…
10:44 AM
@PieBie I agree with this. Composition could apply to kinetic type motion graphics or any medium really so in that sense I think it's wrong to remove one over the other
burn the page-layout if any >:)
The only things I can think of off the top of my head where Page-layout > Layout so to speak would be with special printing considerations like bleed, imposition, slugs, printers marks etc but we have tags for those so that should be covered?
2 hours later…
12:43 PM
@PieBie @Cai --- perhaps based on what I'm reading the solution would be:

A. Create a tag Desktop-Publishing.
B. Merge many (maybe all) Page-Layout questions into Desktop-Publishing
C. Merge many (maybe all) Layout questions into Composition
Reading through Page-Layout nearly all of them are essentially Desktop Publishing questions.
If we accept the answer on, graphicdesign.stackexchange.com/questions/94043/…, as pretty well worded than we can all agree Page Layout < Layout < Composition
Except when I read through actual questions - none of them refer strictly to layout
They either refer to Composition as a whole or how to do something in Desktop-Publishing [InDesign]
This new question for example could be tagged Desktop-Publishing: graphicdesign.stackexchange.com/questions/74420/…
While this new question for example could be tagged Composition: graphicdesign.stackexchange.com/questions/86225/…
12:57 PM
heya @Vincent how are you?
I'm good. starting to relax a bit. You?
@Ryan I think I can live with that :)
and heya @Vin
hey @Pie
how's Belgian life?
I'm good. Really starting to enjoy D&D. Sadly Vincent doesn't get played anymore :( Stopped going to that group. I still have his character sheets though
@Vincent dreary atm, the weather can't decide if it wants to be sunny or rainy, so it's a bit of both :S
apart from that: i'm good
1:02 PM
@Ryan yeah but you have another better group, right?
Ah yeah it's the same here @Pie
yep yep. lots of fun now that its settled down and gotten a fairly consistent group. for a while people were changing every week
ah that's good. continuity is key
you been playing any interesting games?
yes, lots. :)
This has been a mainstay with us for at least half a year now
I wrote my 12th play just yesterday and the game keeps on surprising me
or i'm just stupid enough to keep on playing it wrong XD
I think it's one of the best games to come out the last couple of years
sounds interesting and complex
how long does a game take?
1:11 PM
about 30-40 minutes per player
and you can really play it with only 1 player?
page says so
there is a solo variant I haven't tried my hand at yet
you have to achieve certain goals within a set number of turns
I prefer playing with opponents. I have console and steam for solo play :P
I find it ironic their logo is a registered trademark
1:42 PM
A: Merge suggestion: [layout] and [page-layout]

RyanMy new suggestion after extensive talking to others as well as reading questions currently in layout composition and page-layout is as follows: We create a new tag, desktop-publishing and turn it into a synonym and merger for page-layout. All of the questions under page-layout, would fit under d...

:\ this company wants more than twice the cost of a half page ad for a full page ad. That's so strange
2 hours later…
3:53 PM
terraforming mars looks awesome
we're way into boardgames
discovered "ticket to ride" recently
4 hours later…
8:15 PM
@Ryan I was really impulsive and bought a bronica lol. I put a crazy low bid on it and won, suprisingly...I have no self control
8:28 PM
I almost bought a Kiev the other day. Was glancing at russian lenses that seem to have settled back down to dirt cheap prices and then glanced at the Kiev and almost bought one
I have less impulse than you lol
well at least with cameras
what did you get exactly and any lenses with it @johnp
i didnt expect to win it! it's just a body so I'm gunna have to build up the rest over time. Was only 50 quid though! I was looking at the kievs too. The only thing that put me off them is the flash sync speed is only 1/30.
a bronica sq
oh so you don't even have a back or prism or anything on it?
nah but im gunna take it easy and get em bit by bit. the backs are about 30, same for a waist finder
that'll be cool. Show some photos when you take a few
yeah i will, i hope it arrives in working condition lol
8:46 PM
I really think if my camera keeps acting up Ill end up getting a Pentax before the end of the year. Maybe get a Pentax crop sensor until I can spring for the 645
Next thing I buy will definitely be filters. Didn't get them in time for the last round of trips but I will have them before October
Such a shame :/ You don't think you'll get anyone to look at it then? There's usually some legendary old technician in every country that specializes in fixing the impossible lol
i think Im trying to find an excuse to get a weather sealed medium format camera ;)
it looks like it! is that new fuji mf one weather sealed? some of the x series are
im conscious of taking over chat with photography talk again so i better stop lol
9:14 PM
what's wrong with photography chat? its not like the place was busy with graphic design chat
I think the new Fuji is weather sealed
@Ryan so it is. bit steeper than the pentax though... doubt you'd consider a digital back on a film camera? used are a lot cheaper
Really? I thought digital backs were very expensive?
I honestly don't really understand how they work
me too, but supposedly they've come down a lot in price for used ones... http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mamiya-645AFD-II-w-Phase-One-P45-Digital-Back-39MP-297-/201983380571?hash=item2f0725cc5b:g:o~0AAOSwmNlZY8tL
there are cheaper backs but i figure you'd want a fairly high MP one
lol i have no idea either, i think you just use them like a film back module, though i really know nothing about the quality... phase one and mamiya leaf are the main brands i recognize but there seem to be plenty others too and some fitting hasselblad
9:41 PM
yeah I don't know
also those old medium formats aren't weather sealed so kinda defeats some of the point
can't have it rusting and destroying whatever back goes in it
yup true that
Fuji large format lenses look real cheap
maybe I should give that a shot. Think large format looks fun and its definitely lighter than a digital medium
9:56 PM
for landscape, i think you'd enjoy that
Do you know of Lake Tahoe?
yeah i recognize it. planning a trip?
Yep. Going in October for work
Won't be snowing
Then Joshua Tree National Park in November
looks amazing. will you have your new setup by then dya think?
not sure. I plan to have filters and either rent or buy a lens for it though
im really hoping the conference goes well otherwise it's going to look like I just took a vacation on the company dime lol
its a very short conference so trying to schedule some other meetings and stuff as well to justify the cost
10:11 PM
lol planning conferences around photo locations ftw
one of the associations we sponsor and advertise with and such does two big conferences each year one in Silicon Valley and one in Orange County (outside Los Angeles) but last year they started a smaller more focused show for some of their larger members. They send out a survey to their members to determine where to do it. Last year it was in Santa Barbara but was sold out before I could get us in
Does anyone use radiusX and radiusY on rectangles or have even heard of them versus of just using radius?
@ZachSaucier was just in here for a second and might be your best bet
@johnp maybe instead I should just buy a Drone already. Not sure how easy it would be to manage when I also have to bring all sorts of work stuff though
@Ryan sign up to their newsletter lol. Lake Tahoe is stunning.
@johnp what do you mean signup to their newsletter?
and yeah Emerald Bay is exactly where I just had open also
10:20 PM
@Ryan ah i was just joking about getting on that conference that sold out
oh, I paid to increase our membership from "Affiliate" to "Premium" basically so now we get earlier notification. I was the first one to signup for Tahoe and it sold out later that day.
ooh I actually really like the way Lake Aloha looks. I think I'll head there as well or instead
yeah for photography I think thats a lot better than Tahoe. If its shallow and there's islands out like that I'll be able to walk on it'll be awesome
the water is so clear. might be able to get some nice reflections of the surrounding mountains
10:42 PM
@1.21gigawatts yes, it depends on what you need to make
11:01 PM
example from the list
11:26 PM
Tahoe is my happy place
4 hour drive
Sidney Padua: writing an 'imaginary' comic on Lovelace & Babbage was like a 'sandbox of elements'; playful and some… https://twitter.com/i/web/status/884824954604310529
on the slopes at open
Hi BESW, I like your posts
High brow comic theory
[wave] Hi. Most of my actual graphic design work is kinda niche for the site, but I try to share anything that comes across my path which others might find interesting/useful.
And I know that at least one user in this chat is reading comics as reference for illustration and layout concepts.
Nice. What kind of work do you do?
comics are a ricjh source of inspiration
I'm a print layout designer and illustrator, mostly, with a specialty in working with clients who haven't identified their needs yet and with publications that navigate cultural contact zones.
11:31 PM
Very cool. LOL at "Clients that haven't identified their needs"
I have those
cultural contact zones?
I remember you talking about studying the Pacific languages
My most visible work is with my local university where I make their theater posters, do logos and publications for conferences, and multilingual book and magazine layout.
How very cool! And lucky, getting to design for a living
you made this room?
I did not, I'm just one of the "owners" who's been given demi-mod powers over it.
Aaah got it. I'm new here
Sam and Fuzzy turned 15 this year and was nominated for a Shuster award! So here, have a free ebook of Vol 1… https://twitter.com/i/web/status/884858136070205440
Since Graphic Design is so very focused on web design, I generally just act like a curated Twitter bot and remind people to be nice. I'm much more active on Role-playing Games, and I'm trying to help Literature get on its feet.

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