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5:00 AM
so it isn't ironic
 
Slow down guys you're overloading my internet connection :P
6 mins ago, by Typhon
why is everyone posting so fast?
 
Actually there's strange things
that happen in even 1 dim
 
ironic
[ahy-ron-ik]
Spell Syllables
Examples Word Origin
See more synonyms on Thesaurus.com
adjective
1.
using words to convey a meaning that is the opposite of its literal meaning; containing or exemplifying irony :
an ironic novel; an ironic remark.
2.
of, relating to, or tending to use irony or mockery; ironical.
3.
coincidental; unexpected:
It was ironic that I was seated next to my ex-husband at the dinner.
 
@LeakyNun it's ironic that a conjecture named after an evergrowing monster results in evergrowing numbers...
 
@Typhon no it isn't ironic
 
5:00 AM
21 mins ago, by Balarka Sen
@Semiclassical I am more interested in what one can say about the distribution given by kernel of $\phi$. I am pretty sure it's going to be integrable.
 
Like you could have a form which is nonzero on a subset of the set that another form is zero on.
 
ffs
 
20 mins ago, by Balarka Sen
i.e., it generates a foliation
 
Then their wedge is zero.
 
@Semiclassical does that not count as irony?
 
5:01 AM
1 min ago, by Leaky Nun
@Typhon 28->105->28 disproves your conjecture
@Typhon back to the conjecture
 
I have no idea.
 
@LeakyNun when 12 is replaced by 4?
 
@Typhon yes
 
darn
what about when we replace 4 with 3?
 
What's \phi?
 
5:02 AM
@Typhon now we are getting somewhere
 
It's very easy to tell whether a 1-form has an integrable kernel or not.
That's just Jacobi.
 
Right, there was a message before that
28 mins ago, by Balarka Sen
In any case, the issue is there's no reason to believe $d\phi = \omega \wedge \phi$ for a universal $\omega$ for all $\phi$. I think if there is such a universal $\omega$ that corresponds to integrability of an appropriate distribution (kernel of $\phi$?) or something.
 
Well I was trying to make something that might be trivially true
 
@Typhon and I can prove it.
 
yet appear dreadfully evil to work with
@LeakyNun noice
 
5:02 AM
That was inspired by the seeming analogy between how $d$ maps between \Omega's and how the wedge product would.
 
trivially I presume? XD
 
(Though I now can see where that analogy doesn't work.)
But beyond that $\phi$ was pretty much generic.
 
@Typhon not so trivially
 
But I wasn't the one coming up with the question, so I can't motivate it
 
@LeakyNun i presume it is trivial compared to the expected difficulty of the collatz conjecture
XD
 
5:04 AM
@Typhon $3k+1 \mapsto 9k-4 \mapsto 9k-3 \mapsto 3k-8$ which is exactly $9$ lower than what we started with; rinse and repeat
 
ah
BUT
 
$3k+2 \mapsto 3k+3 \mapsto k-6$ which is smaller
 
I think one can come up with easy local counterexamples to d\phi = \omega \wedge \phi for any \
omega
 
$3k \mapsto k-7$ which is smaller
 
does 3k-8 map to the same modulo equivalence set
 
5:05 AM
yeah, I'd believe that.
 
so it either gets smaller, gets smaller, or gets smaller.
@Typhon yes. $3k-8 = 3(k-3)+1$
 
oh yeah
duh
"9 lower"
 
Anyways, bottom line is that my initial thought was too simplistic. But once you go up to 2-forms then there's a chance for more interesting possibilities.
 
I mean if you have a 1-form which vanishes a lot of places
it will kill a form which is only nonvanishing on those places
 
hmm, yeah.
but that seems pretty pathological.
 
5:06 AM
@Typhon if I can prove it, then it is trivial compared to collatz conjecture, because nobody managed to prove collatz.
 
@LeakyNun good job. Now do the same for collatz
 
nope.
 
@LeakyNun but what if collatz is actually trivial once we learn the right trivial method?
 
@Typhon then collatz would become trivial.
 
in fact
 
5:07 AM
coulda woulda shoulda
 
I just had a weird thought which I will keep to myself
 
@Semiclassical flags
 
because it might be actually be useful
XD
 
and also I have to go
 
5:08 AM
I don't really see a way to make these things vector spaces rather than O_X modules (modules over the ring of smooth functions) which is wear this issue comes from.
 
so I don't have time to share it. I'll think about it some more while I take my shower, return, write some notes and possibly have a decent target plan for collatz.
 
@PVAL-inactive Yeah, that's definitely beyond the realm I'm prepared to wander around in.
@typhon just bear in mind:
(i think that was posted earlier as well, but pfft it still applies)
 
27->82->41->124->62->31->94->47->142->71->214->107->322->161->484->242->121->364‌​->182->91->274->137->412->206->103->310->155->466->233->700->350->175->526->263->‌​790->395->1186->593->1780->890->445->1336->668->334->167->502->251->754->377->113‌​2->566->283->850->425->1276->638->319->958->479->1438->719->2158->1079->3238->161‌​9->4858->2429->7288->3644->1822->911->2734->1367->4102->2051->6154->3077->9232->4‌​616->2308->1154->577->1732->866->433->1300->650->325->976->488->244->122->61->184‌​->92->46->23
Bear this in mind @Typhon
26 mins ago, by Akiva Weinberger
Here's Collatz starting at 27:
25 mins ago, by Akiva Weinberger
They're not actually letting me post it 'cause it's too long
 
Terry Tao has some stuff on Collatz: terrytao.wordpress.com/2011/08/25/…
From there:
"Open questions with this level of notoriety can lead to what Richard Lipton calls “mathematical diseases” (and what I termed an unhealthy amount of obsession on a single famous problem). (See also this xkcd comic regarding the Collatz conjecture.) As such, most practicing mathematicians tend to spend the majority of their time on more productive research areas that are only just beyond the range of current techniques.
Nevertheless, it can still be diverting to spend a day or two each year on these sorts of questions, before returning to other matters; so I recently had a go at the problem. Needless to say, I didn’t solve the problem, but I have a better appreciation of why the conjecture is (a) plausible, and (b) unlikely be proven by current technology, and I thought I would share what I had found out here on this blog."
 
@LeakyNun How did you do that
Oh, it doesn't end yet
You ended at 23
 
5:14 AM
Oh, I ended whenever it is smaller
because my program is cumulative
 
smart.
 
23, 70, 35, 106, 53, 160, 80, 40, 20, 10, 5, 16, 8, 4, 2, 1.
Is how it ends.
 
Now who on earth flagged my message?
 
Zee
Who ever flagged me get a life
Pathetic loser
 
What did you say?
 
Zee
5:16 AM
I did, couse am 99 percent sure you flagged mine
 
How do you know when a message of yours gets flagged?
 
@AkivaWeinberger Getting chat-banned would probably be a tip-off...
 
Zee
Seriously, I get banned for saying " dunderhead"?
 
Leaky and Zee clearly weren't chat-banned, though
as they are still chatting
 
5:17 AM
wtf
 
Zee
I got banned for 30 mins
 
5 mins ago, by Leaky Nun
27->82->41->124->62->31->94->47->142->71->214->107->322->161->484->242->121->364‌​->182->91->274->137->412->206->103->310->155->466->233->700->350->175->526->263->‌​790->395->1186->593->1780->890->445->1336->668->334->167->502->251->754->377->113‌​2->566->283->850->425->1276->638->319->958->479->1438->719->2158->1079->3238->161‌​9->4858->2429->7288->3644->1822->911->2734->1367->4102->2051->6154->3077->9232->4‌​616->2308->1154->577->1732->866->433->1300->650->325->976->488->244->122->61->184‌​->92->46->23
of course I can't get kicked for this message
 
Well, Leaky wasn't, at least
 
but someone decided to flag it anyway
for fun?
 
Zee
5:18 AM
And I get kicked for saying "dunderhead"?
 
@LeakyNun How can you tell?
 
@AkivaWeinberger I have more than 10k.
 
That it was flagged?
Me too
Maybe it just doesn't show on mobile.
 
So I can tell.
I don't think it does.
 
Well, @akiva pointed out that dodsy's conjecture is actually equivalent to the collatz conjecture.
there's a simple identification.
 
Zee
5:19 AM
Obviously leaky banned me, good job, am sure your a very likable person
 
@Zee was the message removed?
 
@Zee don't jump to conclusions?
@Justwinbaby yes
 
Probably a "drive by" user flag
 
Zee
It's either you or semiclassical , and I doubt he would do it
 
Relax
No big deal
 
Zee
5:21 AM
No am not gonna go damn relax
We were talking math and then all of the sudden I get censored
 
Come on I've been there pal :-)
Many times.
 
Zee
Alright, am just pissed
 
Take a break.
 
If you called someone else a name, it likely isn't going to matter what it was.
 
Zee
Oh cry me a river, who ever flagged me is obviously a wuss , idc ban me, more math time
Go ahead y'all, get your wish , ban me
What are you waiting for @LeakyNun ? Just do it
 
5:26 AM
12
A: Should discussions on topics which disturb long time users of the chat room be banned?

Shog9You left out a lot of context; I'm tempted to think you're just cherry-picking bits of that conversation to make others look bad while ignoring your own behavior and how it contributed to the situation. Here's something I would consider a really critical bit of context: (for casual readers: "...

 
6 mins ago, by Leaky Nun
@Zee don't jump to conclusions?
 
Zee
Who ever flagged me is not even willing to confront me, I actually feel bad for that person, am out
 
6:20 AM
in The h Bar, Feb 23 at 2:12, by Shog9
@skullpetrol you have the dubious distinction of being in a single-digit position among the top most-suspended chat users.
@Semiclassical the simplicity of the statement of the conjecture is what always amazes me.
 
Sir
hello, does any one here do much computer programming with maths here?
 
@Sir just ask; don't ask to ask
 
Sir
Well my math logic looks like this:
startSpeed - (flightTime / dragCoefficient / 0.5)

from that i am trying to find the maximum distance travelled before it eventually returns back to the starting point.
flightTime is increasing infinitely so there is a peak distance
 
do you mean "Speed = startSpeed - (flightTime / dragCoefficient / 0.5)"?
 
Sir
yeh thats the speed in the current frame
 
6:34 AM
$v = v_0 - 2 \mu t$
$s = v_0 t - \mu t^2$
 
Sir
μ represents drag?
 
$\mu$ is 1 / dragCoefficient
because for some godforsaken reason it is divided
 
Sir
oh i just set it as a value already as a decimal anyway
s is displacement right ?
 
yes
@AkivaWeinberger shalom
 
Sir
okay so i only need the displacement equation
let me try it see what the end result is
 
6:38 AM
$s = v_0 t - \mu t^2 = -\mu(t^2 - \frac{v_0}{\mu}t) = -\mu(t-\frac{v_0}{2\mu})^2 + \frac{v_0^2}{4\mu^2}$
@Sir so the maximum displacement is $\frac{v_0^2}{4\mu^2}$
or startSpeed^2 * dragCoefficient^2 / 4
 
Sir
ah okay trying them out now
@LeakyNun don't you mean:
startSpeed^2/(drag^(2)*4)
 
no, because $\mu$ is 1/drag
 
Sir
ohh
hm im getting a massive value for max displacement
like in the millions
@LeakyNun the problem is your calculation is not taking into account my flight time for decreasing speed
 
@Sir why not?
maybe you could tell me your exact values though
13 mins ago, by Leaky Nun
$s = v_0 t - \mu t^2 = -\mu(t^2 - \frac{v_0}{\mu}t) = -\mu(t-\frac{v_0}{2\mu})^2 + \frac{v_0^2}{4\mu^2}$
sorry, it should read $\frac{v_0^2}{4\mu}$ here
 
Sir
startSpeed is 840m/s
flightTime increases per frame by milliseconds
dragCoefficient is 0.02
 
6:52 AM
it's my fault
 
Sir
im doing startSpeed - (flightTime / dragCoefficient / 0.5)

So the increasing of flight time increases the drag coefficient too
 
so you should get 840^2/0.08 = 8820000 now
wait, the drag coefficient is not constant?
how does it vary with the time then?
 
Sir
correct
im subtracting more and more as the flight time increases
so im trying to find the peak point when it essentially goes back to the starting point
 
but the drag coefficient is constant
like, it's always 0.02
 
Sir
im not doing real life simulation
 
6:53 AM
oh wait, I forgot that my $\mu$ is 1/drag
1 min ago, by Leaky Nun
so you should get 840^2/0.08 = 8820000 now
so you should get instead 840^2*0.02/4 = 3528
@Sir if the drag coefficient is not constantly 0.02, then can you tell me how it varies with time?
 
Sir
well it is constant but the time value wasn't was what i meant
but that 3528 is pretty close
 
I took into account the time
what I calculated is the maximum displacement as the time flows
 
Sir
ah okay it works now
ok so it was removing the 1/drag to just drag that fixed it :)
@LeakyNun thank you
 
no problem
 
Small question - if $A$ is compact, I know that $ker(I-A)$ is finite.
Is there a neat way to show, from that, that $ker(\alpha I-A)^n$ is finite for each $n\in N$?
 
7:06 AM
Wait what?
 
how can a kernel be finite, except for the trivial kernel?
 
Or wait do you mean finite dimensional?
 
Finite dimensional, yes
My bad
 
And what is $\alpha$ here?
Any number? Resolvent set? Spectrum?
 
you see, questions without domains.
 
7:08 AM
$\alpha$ is some scalar different than 0. Not necessarily spectrum
 
Alrighty then
First I'm gonna try to prove what you said at the beginning
Well, so $\ker(I - A) = \{x: Ax = x\}$.
 
That's part of Fredholm alternative, expressed in Banach spaces
 
Is this gonna be a type of open mapping theorem?
 
What I said at the beginning, i.e. given $A$ is compact, $dim(ker(I-A))$ is finite
 
Oh, darn, I don't know Fredholm stuff
 
Sir
7:11 AM
@LeakyNun sorry just a quick Q do you know how to find time elapsed for a given distance with the drag ?
thinking its something like this t = root(s/(v0-μ2))
 
39 mins ago, by Leaky Nun
$s = v_0 t - \mu t^2$
just solve the quadratic equation
 
But I think in order to prove the later part, I'm just gonna have to say that if it were of infinite dimension, I could've shown some partial mapping that yields that $dim(ker(I-A))$ is infinite...
 
@Studentmath what does compact mean?
 
An operator on Banach spaces is compact if it takes bounded sets to precompact ones (compact closure)
 
7:26 AM
@Leaky what @Damin said
Or Alternatively, takes bounded sets to totally bounded sets
 
never mind
I only do linear algebra if it is of finite dimension :p
2
 
Lul
Want a cool problem I saw?
(But yeah I only had a bit of functional analysis, never really reached Fredholm-type stuff)
 
Cheers anyhow. I will try a few methods. It's a supposedly easy question so I am just looking for a neat way to do it.. I also hate when they say a question is easy. So intimidating
 
@Justwinbaby o/
 
So wait how do you prove that $\ker(I - A)$ is finite dimensional?
Oh wait a sec, hmm
Yeah no that works, I think
$\ker(I-A) = \{x: Ax = x\}$, so consider its unit ball $B$, then $A(B) = B$ which must be precompact, but balls are only compact in finite dimensions
 
7:36 AM
\o @Waiting
 
Now, consider $(\alpha I - A)^n$. If $\alpha$ is in the resolvent set of $A$ you should be good already
 
Alternatively - using direct sums.. the proof is rather long. There is a shorter proof for a private case - where we can find some $A_0$ of finite degree "close enough" to $A$
True @Damin
@Daminark perhaps proof by induction? Could work.
 
I'm thinking somehow, there's a sort of, I dunno, bounded increase of size, so to speak?
Like, you know $\alpha I - A$ should also have finite nullity
By a similar argument, take the unit ball in the kernel, it should get mapped to itself scaled, but that's then compact
 
I think we can show that eventually, $ker(\alpha I-A)^n$ is the same as $ker(\alpha I -A)^{n+1}$ for large enough $n$
But I think that's over-doing it. Perhaps, we assume $(\alpha I - A)^n$ has finite nullity, then show $(\alpha I - A)^{n+1}$ oughta have one too
 
So let $k$ be the dimension of $\ker(\alpha I - A)$
I'm reasonably sure that the $n^{th}$ power of $A$ should have kernel with dimension at most $nk$
 
7:47 AM
Hmm, can't see that yet - why?
 
So, let's take the second power for simplicity
Basically, at most a $k$ dimensional subspace of your whole Banach space is killed, so in particular, at most a $k$ dimensional subspace of the image of $I-A$ is killed as well, you know what I mean?
That's the heuristic reasoning which I'm pretty sure can be made rigorous
Okay so, if you consider $(\alpha I - A)^n$, its kernel (I believe) should be $\ker(\alpha I - A)^{n-1} + \{x : (\alpha I - A)x \in \ker(\alpha I - A)\}$, right?
So, by induction hypothesis, the first should be finite dimensional, and I think if the second were infinite dimensional, you would be able to show that the kernel couldn't be finite dimensional, because you just collapsed an infinite dimensional space to a finite dimensional one like come on QED
 
@Daminark that's what I spoke about when I said neat :) cheers!
 
So, double check me on 2 points that this argument relies on that I'm 99.9999999899999... sure about
 
Are you trying to prove parts of the spectral theorem for compact operators on Banach spaces? o.O
 
8:02 AM
First is that the kernel is as I said it is, second is that if an operator has finite nullity, the image of an infinite dimensional subspace is also infinite dimensional
 
@Daminark well, 99.999... = 100
 
@Steamy based on my memory of the proof of the spectral theorem, I don't think this is it
@Leaky notice the 8, it's very deliberate
 
@Leaky he slipped an 8 there, mind you
I did it rather rigorously now @Daminark. There's a second part I am trying to do now,
 
S N I P E D @Studentmath
Also woo!
 
haha
Induction too. But gonna try that one by myself for now - if you're curious, we know that $Im(I-A)$ is closed, and we wanna show that $Im(\alpha I - A)^n$ is closed.
Be back soon, cheers again
 
8:04 AM
Alrighty then, see you!
Oh wait a second
I've only seen spectral theorem for compact operators on Hilbert spaces
What does it even mean to be self-adjoint on a Banach space though?
(Also @Steamy do you know algebraic topology at all? I'm having a bit of trouble understanding the most recent lecture and I'm wondering if I could run it by you just to be sure)
(Or anyone for that matter)
Hey @s.harp! Are we finally on chat at the same time?
 
yes^
 
Woohoo! How've you been?
 
8:40 AM
@Daminark Well, algebraic topology is a large domain, but who knows :P
 
I mean this is a second lecture on algebraic topology
So hopefully this'll come out well
So a few things I'm trying to get a grip on
 
[Dream from a train nap] Define
$$\alpha^n=\int f((forgot))dx$$
Now
$$\int f((forgot))^n dx = \alpha^{n+1}$$

So basically, you have an integro-recurence relation. The dream however never showed what the base case is thus there is no way to make further sense of it
 
@Daminark Well, there's a part of the spectral theorem that says that for any nonzero eigenvalue $\lambda$ of a compact operator $A$, there is some $n$ such that $\operatorname{Ker}(\lambda -A)^n = \operatorname{Ker}(\lambda -A)^{n+1}$, and this subspace is finite dimensional. I didn't really follow the discussion, but it reminded me of that.
 
So, apparently there's a homeomorphism between $[\Sigma Z, X]$ and $[Z,\Omega X]$
 
@Daminark Okay, I'm already completely lost :P
 
8:44 AM
So $\Sigma Z$ is called the suspension of $Z$
 
You'll have to explain the notation
 
(Everything here is based)
Let's say the basepoint is $z_0$
Then $\Sigma Z = (Z\times I)/(Z \times \{0\} \cup Z\times \{1\} \cup \{z_0\}\times I)$
And $\Sigma X$ is the loop space of $X$, which is the space of maps from $S^1$ to $X$ with this compact-open topology
The brackets are homotopy classes of maps
 
However, after some random pondering and free association about the dream itself after I woke up, I then came up with something that might be a little bit more sensible:

Let $I=\int f(x)dx$. There exists functions $f(x)$ such that the following holds for all $n \in \Bbb{N}$

$$\int f(x) dx =I^2 = \left(\int f(x) dx\right)^2$$
$$\int I^n dx =I^{n+1}$$

Whether there are such $f(x)$ I don't know, and I will deal with it later...
 
@Daminark I smell a lot of Hatcher ?
 
Our professor isn't terribly fond of Hatcher, as it turns out
Likely closer to his own book
 
8:52 AM
I see...
 
But he's experimenting, since he's trying to define cohomology first
 
Well, being from the Munkres-side, I find it extremely weird you'd see these things in a second lecture :P
 
Lol yeah, Peter's trying to develop things that more closely matches how modern algebraic topologists think about stuff, apparently the first time he's trying this way. We'll see how it goes
 
Well, I know the suspension, though I'm not familiar with this "based" version.
 
Apparently the based version agrees with the unbased version for CW complexes up to weak homotopy equivalence, but that's quite a bit beyond me right now
So his book defines a crash product $X\land Y = X\times Y/X\lor Y$ where $X\lor Y = x_0\times Y \cup X\times y_0$
This lets you express $\Sigma X = X\land S^1$
On the other hand there's this property of loop spaces or something
It's basically this Haskell-type reading of functions
 
9:06 AM
Well, I don't know what loop spaces are (apart from the definition you mentioned a bit ago), so I doubt I'll be of much help here.
I've also never heard of anyone teaching about them, so I'd wager that this Peter does research in loop spaces :P
 
You have a bijection from, I think the idea is that the set of continuous maps from $X$ to the set of continuous maps from $Y$ to $Z$ is bijective to the space of continuous maps from $X\times Y$ to $Z$, and the compact-open topology makes it a homeomorphism, said that's about what we need to know
Perhaps. His endgame seems to be using this stuff to define cohomology groups via Eilenberg-MacLane spaces
Well, his endgame for next class
 
Never heard of those either :P
 
Good lord his brand of algebraic topology is very specific
 
Well, unless you're Erdos or Tao, your brand is always very specific :P
 
But yeah an Eilenberg-MacLane space of class $K(G,n)$ is a connected space whose homotopy groups are all trivial except for the $n^{th}$ one, which is $G$
 
9:11 AM
Though it doesn't always feel that way to the researcher, because he's mostly in contact with people doing research in the same area ^^
 
Then he defined $\tilde{H}^n(X:G) = [X,K(G,n)]$
Lel
 
That... that's supposed to be your first introduction to (co)homology?
 
Yeah, he mentioned that cohomology is dual to something, hence homology exists! I think, or something
 
Well, it's fine to start with cohomology rather than homology - in some cases it's the more "natural" thing.
But the way he introduces these things... I definitely don't agree with that approach
 
Lmao, at the end of class he was going off about how he hates the whole shtick about introducing homology with chains or something. I dunno
 
9:16 AM
$$\int I^n dx =I^{n+1}$$
Ok it turns out we can do something about this: Differentiate both sides to get
$$I^n =(n+1)I^n f(x)$$
We can rearrange this equation to get
$$I^n (1- (n+1) f(x))= 0$$
This give us two conditions:
$$I^n=0\text{ or } f(x) = \frac{1}{n+1}$$
Now consider the base case:
$$f(x)=0\text{ or } f(x) = 1$$

Therefore the only consistent solution is the zero function
 
Heh... I guess that explains it :P
 
Also that other types of spaces can give other types of homology theory
 
In general, the only function that is nilpotent under indefinite integration is the zero function
Whether that holds true for iterated definite integrals of iteration $n > 1$:

$$\underbrace{\int_a^b\cdots \int_a^b}_{\text{n times}} f(x)dx\cdots dx=0, \exists f(x)\neq 0?$$

remains to be checked
 
Anyway I think I should go to bed now, I can't absorb the stuff in this state, and I'll ask Peter May "wut" at some point. See you!
 
The following is also worth pondering:

$$(F(b)-F(a))(b-a)^{n-1}=0$$
 
9:35 AM
Hello can someone explain to me please how to approach this integral $\int{\frac{x^2}{(x-1)^5}dx$
 
Partial fractions all day erryday
 
@user3133165 change variables to get $\int {\frac {({u+1})^2}{u^5}} du$.
expand the numerator.
 
Or that. But that's pretty much the same thing in this case :P
 
Ah yes thanks !
 
9:49 AM
0
Q: Geometric algebra and simple geometric operations

user8469759I'm not an expert on the subject, but If it is worth I'd like to start on getting some grasp on the subject. Assuming geometric algebra framework, Is there somewhere a list of formulas where for example the intersection between a line and a plane, line and sphere, if the point belong to a plane ...

 
Mar 1 '15 at 9:00, by Chris's sis
@BalarkaSen I don't see any way of doing it without using complex analysis ... $$\int_{-\infty}^{\infty} \frac{e^{a x}}{1-e^x} \ dx, 1>a>0$$
$$\int {\frac {({u+1})^2}{u^5}} du$$
$u=1-e^x\implies du=-e^xdx\implies \frac{du}{-e^x}=dx\implies \frac{du}{u-1}=dx$

$\int_a^y \frac{e^{ax}}{1-e^x}dx=\int_{1-e^a}^{1-e^y}-\frac{(1-u)^a}{(1-u)u}du=\int_{1-e^a}^{1-e^y}-\frac{(1-u)^{a-1}}{u}du$
 
What are you even trying to do?
 
I see many seemly common patterns across different integrals from the chat crawling and the recent chat messages, which is why I just sorta-reflexive action, analysing them
For example, user3133165's integral somehow reminds me of this complex analysis integral from the chat crawling, and I then noticed there are some similarities, which is then confirmed after a change of variables
I am not sure what I can make use of these results through, so I just decided to lay them around... (though I agree I need to massively shorten spacings and unecessary typing else it is going to flood the chat)
I think it is safe to say that my mind is currently (involuntarily?) stuck at thinking about ordinals and integrals, and I guess it will be more or less like that until I computed the main results in the ordinal collapse function
...hmmm, I think I might trying digging MSE to see whether there's a theorem for conditions on integrals that can only be done by complex analysis methods. Such No-go theorem will greatly help characterising complex and real integrals
 
10:07 AM
Ummm
There's no such general condition.
Complex analysis can only do definite integrals, and it's usually only possible if either side goes to $\infty$, preferrably both.
And we use complex analysis when the function doesn't have a primitive in terms of elementary functions, like in the case of that integrand with exponentials
Which should also be a hint that your substitutions won't get you anywhere - one function has a primitive in terms of elementary functions, the other one doesn't.
 
I see,
hmm in that case, that's weird, because I get $-\frac{(1-u)^{a-1}}{u}$, which is easily reducible to a simple polynomial if $a$ is an integer. Perhaps I have made a careless mistake somewhere...
 
"if $a$ is an integer"
 
Hello,I am trying to finding the minimum moves to make a string palindrome I have come up with the following formula is it correct? We should make a matrix to keep the results .if first=last characher then $T(i,j)= T(i-1,j-1) $ and if first is different from last then $ T(i,j) = min ( T(i-1,j) , T(i,j-1) ) $
ofcourse T(i,i) = 0
 
O wait, I miss out $1>a>0$, that explains it. If $a$ is not an integer, the $(1-u)^{a-1}$ cannot be expanded into a polynomial. Instead, one will get an infinite power series
thus consistent with the nonelementary nature of this integral
@IvanIvanov what is i,j, are they two different letters in an input string?
 
the substring from i to j inclusive where i<=j
also $i,j >0 $
 
10:25 AM
Hmm... if I have input string....
accdbdab
if first is different from last then T(i,j)=min(T(i−1,j),T(i,j−1))
->stuck unless it wraps around
But we want:
accdbdab
-> accdbdba
i think...
 
@Secret I think #T(i,i) =1 $
 
Is $T$ translate letters in the string to the left, or it just stores the substring i to j?
 
T is a matrix $ n x n $ where n is the length of the string
I need to rework the formula give me a sec
$ T[i][i] =0 $ and $T [i,j] = min ( 1 + T[i,j-1],1+T[i-1][j] ) $
 
Guys how whats the right substitution for this integral $ \int {\frac {x^4}{\sqrt{x^{10} -2}} dx $
 
@Secret $T[i][i]=0 .if the character at i = character at j then $T[i][j]=T[i-1][j-1] $ else $T [i,j] = min ( 1 + T[i,j-1],1+T[i-1][j] ) $
 
10:35 AM
Hmm...
 
@Balarka ping
 
It can be looked as if the first is equal to the last then we look at the string from 2 to the end-1 .If they are different the we might remove the first or the last character and search in depth again ,and since we look at the minimum steps I add 1
 
accdbdab
01234567

Compute T[0,7] -> a=/=b -> T[0,7]=min (1+T[0,6],1+T[-1?,7])

Get accdbda or ccdbdab?
 
oh I have made a typo T [i,j] = min ( 1 + T[i,j-1],1+T[i+1][j] ) $
 
accdbdab
01234567

Compute T[0,7] -> a=/=b -> T[0,7]=min (1+T[0,6],1+T[1,7])

How does the +1 work, so clearly here I have the substring accdbda or ccdbdab. Sicne you said T[i,j] is a nxn matrix, I am guessing +1 is the identity matrix thus has the effect of translating the whole string to the left from 0-7 to 1-8?
O wait...
 
10:47 AM
for example "aab " = min (1+ T[1][2],1+T[2,3]) but T[1,2]=0 and T[2,3]=1 so min (1+0,2 ) = (1,2) is 1
 
@Secret what is this?
32 mins ago, by Ivan Ivanov
Hello,I am trying to finding the minimum moves to make a string palindrome I have come up with the following formula is it correct? We should make a matrix to keep the results .if first=last characher then $T(i,j)= T(i-1,j-1) $ and if first is different from last then $ T(i,j) = min ( T(i-1,j) , T(i,j-1) ) $
what is a move?
 
How does one break out of an iterative relation and turn it into a formula?
 
@LeakyNun Ivan is starting with a string, and he has a matrix that count the minimum number of moves to convert an arbitrary string into a pallidrome
 
T[1,2] = "aa" and first=last so it is 0 , T[2,3]="ab"=min(1+T[2][2],1+T[3,3]) =min(1+0,1+0)=min(1,1)=1
 
@MatsGranvik depends on what relation it is
 

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