Vedanta and Philosophy - 2017-02-17 (page 1 of 3)

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2:47 AM

@KeshavSrinivasan {Discussing on one without second} : So, it represents the efficient and material casue for world. Ok, but I'm more interested in Whether the same thing applies to Jivatma i.e Brahman is material anf efficient cause of Jivatma also according to Vishishtadvaita?

@SreeCharan Namaskaram!

@Pandya @Pandya સુપ્રભાત !

@SreeCharan wow! Gujarati?

@Pandya Yeah from Google. :P

oh! ok. Good.

hinduism.stackexchange.com/help/badges/55/fanatic

2:57 AM

@SreeCharan வாழ்த்துக்கள்

(Is it correct translation?)

@Pandya I don't know tamil. I can read telugu.

@SreeCharan oh! I thought your language is tamil. (I also don't know Tamil or Telugu).

@SreeCharan అభినందనలు

@Pandya BTW, I am learning to speak tamil.

2 hours later…

4:58 AM

@TheDestroyer - Mars ,Mangal (मंगळ) is also called Bhauma (भौम) in sanskrit :)

@SreeCharan - namaskaram , नमस्कार , शुभ दिनं तु ते (very good day to you )

@SwiftPushkar शुभोदय ! कैसे आहे ?

आभार

@SreeCharan - the right sentence in marathi is -- कसे काय आहे and काय चालले आहे that mean , how the things are and whats going on :)

@SwiftPushkar Yes I understood it. 😊 (meeru ela unnaru? in telugu)

@SwiftPushkar Devanagari languages are similar to one another but dialects are different. So, I can understand a bit. Let me guess the meaning. Don't reveal it earlier😊.

@SreeCharan - you can also write "telugu" in hindi , so i will get exact pronounsations and it will be easy to me also :) (मीरू इला उन्नरू) is it correct ?

@SwiftPushkar मीरू एला उन्नारु?- How are you? अंता बागेना? - Is everything fine?

5:07 AM

@SreeCharan - haha yes , i will copy those sentences :)

मीरू - formal नुव्वु - informal/friendly. Both means you.

@SreeCharan -ok :) in marathi You = तु , which is similar of the sanskrit word "tvam"त्वं "

@SwiftPushkar For formal and informal both?

@SreeCharan - "tu" = informal ,and in formal you =आपण "aapan" , its a more respectful calling :)

Earned fanatic badge today My first gold badge .

5:15 AM

@SreeCharan - Tumhi (तुम्ही) also can be used in formal calling of someone , congratulations on earning GOLD Badge :) Hurre , keep it up

@SwiftPushkar आभारी आहे ! Is this right?

@SreeCharan - yes , thats correct , but unfortunately no one uses such local word's in practice today , we all say Thank you more :(

@SwiftPushkar Same here. They circulate in whatsapp messages but not in real life. :(

@SreeCharan i am talking about the same कुंभकर्ण — Rishi 1 min ago

Does anyone here know Kumbhakarna being a scientist besides a rakshas? Atleast in any books? @SwiftPushkar @Pandya @Tezz @TheDestroyer @KeshavSrinivasan

@SreeCharan No

@SreeCharan I think Srilankans believe in that version.

5:29 AM

@TheDestroyer - namaskaram :)

@SwiftPushkar namaskaram!

@TheDestroyer @SreeCharan @Tezz see this -

कालेनग्रहणं मत्वा पुराणस्य द्विजोत्तमः
व्यास-रूपं अहं कृत्वा संहरामि युगे युगे

kalenagrahanam matva puranasya dvijottamah
vyasa-rupam aham krtva samharami yuge yuge

"O best of the brahmanas, understanding that the Purana would gradually become forgotten, in every yuga I appear in the form of Vyasa and condense it."-the Matsya Purana

@SreeCharan haha..Kumbhakarna was a scientist... New conspiracy theory may come...

@SreeCharan I just heard in that answer...

See the comments thread too. @Tezz

@SreeCharan haha.. yes I have seen..

@SwiftPushkar yes, Puranas come in every age...

5:34 AM

@SwiftPushkar Not every Yuga. Maybe yuga here means chaturyuga

@TheDestroyer may be in other ages Puranas is also single like Vedas...

ऋग्यजु:सामाथर्वाख्या वेदाश्चत्वार उदध्रुता:।
इतिहासपुराणं च पंश्चमो वेद उच्यते॥२०॥ SB 1.5.20

ṛg-yajuḥ-sāmātharvākhyā
vedāś catvāra uddhṛtāḥ
itihāsa-purāṇaṁ ca
pañcamo veda ucyate

@Tezz which site has Shiva Agamas?

The four divisions of the original sources of knowledge [the Vedas] were made separately. But the historical facts and authentic stories mentioned in the Purāṇas are called the fifth Veda. vedabase.com/en/sb/1/4/20

@TheDestroyer do you know any verse/story in Purana related to Dugdha Abhisekam...

@TheDestroyer that himalayan academy site has Aagamas...

I think you have added that site in your answer...

5:38 AM

@Tezz dugdha means milk right? . I don't know. I don't remember reading any such verses in Puranas.

@Tezz yes me too , no mentioning of Abhisheka by milk :)

@Tezz But OP wants significance. I think only Agamas can say significance.

Oh so... this book it is.. m.exoticindia.com/m/book/details/history-of-ravana-NZD417

@TheDestroyer yes, that answer is not complete... it is just ritualistic significance.

@TheDestroyer yes, Dugdha means milk...

@Tezz ok.

@TheDestroyer I searched in some Aagams also but couldn't find...

5:43 AM

1

A: Where can I find/get basic information about Hinduism on the web?

https://www.himalayanacademy.com/readlearn has got lot of basic Hinduism articles. Advance stuff is all sectarian though. But articles which specifically talk about Hinduism are not.

@TheDestroyer ^^ Himalayan academy. There are many shaiva agamas

@Tezz yeah. Nithyanada lied in video. He said he uploaded all Shiva Agamas on site. But his site doesn't have anything.

@TheDestroyer Oh... which is Nityananda Site?...

@Tezz His site has nothing except his books.

@KeshavSrinivasan 100 years to you!!!

@TheDestroyer Ok...

5:52 AM

@Tezz Kamika Agama Grantha is available on site. search in that.

himalayanacademy.com/view/kamika-agama_grantha

@TheDestroyer I searched in that... it doesn't give specific significance...

@Tezz ohh. no. It's in Tamil.

@Tezz I think Kamika is largest Shiva Agama and important one too.

Keshav Srinivasan

@SreeCharan Are you trying to wish me a happy birthday? My birthday is April 17, not February 17.

@KeshavSrinivasan No. When someone arrives just when you think just about them, We say it like that.

I think he mean you just came after he thought.... @KeshavSrinivasan

5:54 AM

@KeshavSrinivasan I think Sri Charana just thought of you and you appeared in Chat room. So, he said 100 years.

@KeshavSrinivasan I think you can find answer to this question of yours.

4

Q: What scriptures describe Sadashiva carrying Vishnu in Vishnu's abode of Paramapadam?

As I discuss in this question, the Sri Vaishnava sect (of which I am a member) places great importance on the Divya Desams, the 108 sacred places of Vishnu which are mentioned in the poems of the Alwars. Now two of the Divya Desams are not even on Earth! As I discuss here, there is Thiruparkada...

vishnu shiva vaishnavism sri-vaishnava shaivism

Haha... we three spoke same thing in same time... @TheDestroyer @SreeCharan

2

" Are you trying to wish me a happy birthday? My birthday is April 17, not February 17."... haha... lol..😀😀

@Tezz @SreeCharan Do you know how this belief started? I think there must be some Sastra Pramana for this belief. :P

@Tezz coincidence or predestined 😀😁

@TheDestroyer Yes. According to pancharatra agamas, sadasiva carries Paravasudeva.

Keshav Srinivasan

@Pandya The Jivatma is atomic in size, as described in Adhyaya 2 Pada 3 of the Brahma Sutras.

5:59 AM

@TheDestroyer haha lol...

Keshav Srinivasan

@SreeCharan Oh ok. In America we say "Speak of the devil and he appears" haha

@SreeCharan i asked about "100 years" belief.

@TheDestroyer Don't know.

Keshav Srinivasan

@SreeCharan Where would I find an answer to this?

@SreeCharan oh then you can answer that question....

Keshav Srinivasan

6:01 AM

@SreeCharan Oh, what Pancharatra Agama says that?

@Tezz @KeshavSrinivasan @SreeCharan @SwiftPushkar

@TheDestroyer you are right But i want to add as i remember a mantra from Rigved which i use daily while doing "Havan or Yaj", which says, "Aum ritinchyabhi dawatpadhojayate , tato ratri jayate, tato sumdro arnavah || Aum sumndra daranvadadhi samvatsaro ajayate aho ratrani, vidvidyaste ..... " it is a sandhya mantra Which means that after the completion of 4 yugas, every thing will remain in sunya and life will start once again. — Rishi 5 mins ago

I don't think that is yuga.

@TheDestroyer GM

@TheDestroyer Oh I never heard of that... do you know where is it in RigVeda...

@RakeshJoshi Shubhodayam!

@TheDestroyer yes it might be just like "Yatha Purvama Kalpayat" as RigVeda states...

6:04 AM

@Tezz No. Rishi said that in comment.

@Tezz Yes.

@KeshavSrinivasan I don't have the texts with me. So find it yourself.

@Keshav Padma samhita, Sri prasna samhita, Yoga pitta pari kalpanam.

@KeshavSrinivasan I mailed HH Chinna jeeyar swami and they replied.

Keshav Srinivasan

@Pandya No Brahman is neither the efficient cause nor the material cause of the Jivatama. The efficient cause of an object is that which created it. But the Jivatma is eternal, so it was never created by Brahman. And the Jivatma isn't a transformation of Brahman, because again the Jivatma is eternal, so Brahman is not the material cause of the Jivatma.

@SreeCharan Oh, that's great! Can you forward me the email or paste what the said here?

@KeshavSrinivasan I will mail to lugita. Is that OK?

Keshav Srinivasan

@SreeCharan Yeah

@SreeCharan Thanks, I got it.

how are you @TheDestroyer

6:14 AM

@SreeCharan invite them to our site.

Keshav Srinivasan

@SreeCharan By the way, was that a person reply by Chinna Jeeyar Swami himself, or do his shishyas answer the mail for him?

@RakeshJoshi i'm fine. you?

i m ok

night long discussion

@KeshavSrinivasan Chinna Jeeyar Swami spends some time for Q/A's and letters. So I assume HH has sent this.

Keshav Srinivasan

@SreeCharan Oh, that's really cool.

6:19 AM

But the social media accounts are handled by their shisyas. @KeshavSrinivasan

@KeshavSrinivasan this jevatma is eternal as per which ?

@SreeCharan mail me too.

Keshav Srinivasan

@RakeshJoshi The notion that the Jiva is eternal and never emerged from Brahman is discussed extensively in both Adi Shankaracharya's Brahma Sutra Bhashya and Ramanujacharya's Sri Bhashya.

then how does jeeva merge with the brahman ?

@TheDestroyer Did you get it?

Keshav Srinivasan

6:24 AM

@RakeshJoshi By the way, the fact that the Jiva is eternal is the reason Adi Shankarachaarya rejected the Pancharatra Agamas, because he thought that the Pancharatra Agamas say that the Jiva emerged from Brahman. But then Ramanujacharya showed in his Sri Bhashya that properly interpreted, the Pancharatra Agamas do not actually say the Jiva emerged from Brahman.

@SreeCharan @TheDestroyer oh.. send it to me also..

Keshav Srinivasan

@RakeshJoshi Well, in Ramanujacharya's view the Jiva doesn't just lose all identity and become one with Brahman. Instead the Jiva attains Sayujya or equality of experience with Brahman, it doesn't mean that the Jiva becomes the same as Brahman.

@RakeshJoshi And in any case when I say eternal I'm talking about the past, not the future. The Jiva has existed for all eternity, there was never a time when it was first created or emerged from Brahman.

@Tezz It's just a two-line email: "Your question is genuine. Let them look into the Padma Samhitha, then Sriprasna samhitha etc.,
If they read the ‘yoga pitta parikalpanam’ they can find these details."

@SreeCharan Ohh. I thought he said something else. ok. Thanks!

@KeshavSrinivasan Oh ok... Thanks!..

Keshav Srinivasan

@Tezz @TheDestroyer I was just impressed that a Sri Vaishnava Acharya would personally reply to an email, not about the content of the email.

6:29 AM

@KeshavSrinivasan The concept of four types of mokshas is first used by Madhvacharya.

@KeshavSrinivasan an entity will merge only with its source.

What did you expect? @KeshavSrinivasan @TheDestroyer

Keshav Srinivasan

@SreeCharan No, those types of liberation are described in Hindu scripture, they weren't invented by Madhvacharya.

@KeshavSrinivasan @Tezz @SreeCharan I added you to my Purana folder.

@KeshavSrinivasan OK. That I heard it in a video. I was not sure about that then.

Keshav Srinivasan

6:34 AM

@SreeCharan By the way, the Padma Samhita and the Prashna Samhita are Pancharatra Agamas. But I've never heard of the Yoga Pitta Parikalpanam, and I don't think it's a Pancharatra Agama. I think Chinna Jeeyar Swami is saying that some work called the Yoga Pitta Parikalpanam quotes the Padma Samhita and the Prashna Samhita.

@SreeCharan Ramanujacharya discusses Ekatva extensively in his Bhagavad Gita Bhashya.

@TheDestroyer Oh ok... Thank you!..

Keshav Srinivasan

@SreeCharan By the way, I haven't found English translations of the Padma Samhita and the Prashna Samhita, but I found a Telugu translation of the Padma Samhita here: archive.org/details/pancaratra-agamas

@KeshavSrinivasan It is in english.

Keshav Srinivasan

@SreeCharan What are you talking about? I don't see an English translation of the Padma Samhita in that webpage.

@KeshavSrinivasan @SreeCharan Check Tirumala ebooks. But search feature doesn't work there.

Keshav Srinivasan

6:53 AM

@TheDestroyer No, unfortunately Tirumala ebooks doesn't have any English translations of Pancharatra Agamas.

how to edit chat post

@RakeshJoshi - Click in the side of the message - You will find a arrow pointing downwards - click that and select edit opption

user image

its not showing edit option. only flag option is coming

You can only edit upto 2 minutes... @RakeshJoshi

@RakeshJoshi - yes , we cant edit message after 2 min , so ..

7:05 AM

ohh

@SwiftPushkar there was a long discussion last night after you had left.

on puranas @SwiftPushkar

@KeshavSrinivasan ok.

7:24 AM

@RakeshJoshi ok , i will check that :)

what else

@RakeshJoshi - "indra is not inferior god ... it can be as good as rudra or narayana"

19

Q: Did mountains used to have wings?

I heard that in Ramayana it is stated that mountains used to have wings at one point, then somehow all the mountains lost their wings, except for one mountain which was between India and Sri Lanka. This mountain helped Lord Hanuman by letting him rest on itself for a while when he was flying tow...

mythology ramayana hanuman indra skanda-purana

@RakeshJoshi - see my answer

@RakeshJoshi - the above was your comment about vedic gods from last nights discussion

7:51 AM

@SwiftPushkar i remember my comments but what this post is trying to convey ? that mountains had wings or something else

@RakeshJoshi - no see the story of indra from my answer , you said that -" it can be as good as rudra or narayana" so i gave you the example of indra , -- While fighting with demons at one point Indra throws his Vajra (weapon) on daemon named Namuchi , But the Vajra fails to do any harm to that demon. At that time Indra gets frightened

@RakeshJoshi - in seventh manvantara , when indra came to know about tapa of Markandeya Rushi , then again Indra got frightened and started to brought obstacle's iin his tapascharya. But failed

8:30 AM

@SwiftPushkar i think you have not clearly read the discussion which i had today.

such stories in puranas is the main reason for me to denounce them.
I cannot accept it because they insult and degrade vedic gods and in turn it is insult for vedas itself !!

but puranic references cannot counter vedas.

i had given many logical arguments last night.

Hi

2nd answer here too support Indra kukritya mentioned in PURANAS.

5

Q: Was the story of adultery of Indra in the story of Ahalya a PRAKSHIPTA?

If Lord Indra is a "womaniser" as described as in the Puranic Literature, can anyone tell as to how many women fall prey to him? Only Ahalya's story occurs to me. So we have to closely examine the only story available about Lord Indra's adultery. The story of Ahalya and Indra was mentioned fir...

mythology vedas ramayana puranas indra

But the problem is why Vedas glorify such deities then?

its the vice versa. its PURANAS who degrade vedic gods to show supremacy of puranic deities.

But the 2nd answer clearly affirms the Puranic claim regarding Indra.

😓😓😓

yes puranas degrade vedic gods. its evident .

No, I'm saying Vedas affirming Puranic claim of Indra doing kukritya.

2nd answer provides Reference from Vedas.

8:42 AM

its seems later day addition. because Shukla yajuveda was composed lately during end of dwapara

But the concept of Dwapar too is Puranic. 😳

You're criticising Puranic evidences via Purans.

then why did rama and puranic deities worshiped vedic gods ? were they ignorant?

Yes, we can think on this. But the fact of Indra kukritya seems correct. Maybe Indra no more in Dept of that sin.

That's why he is worshipped.

After fal of sin. Sin vanishes.

first refer vedic literature then confirm it

That 2nd answer confirm.

8:47 AM

do you know how big is vedic literature ?

then accept that vedas is wrong because they promote criminals . we will be more than happy to get rid of so called pseudo vedics.

Yes. Vedas are very big. <0.1% today remains. Only 1 branch out of 1000 branches of Samveda is present today. 😢

Yes. So, nothing to believe. Right? Anything can be wrong or right.

no

more than 15-20 thousand verses are there

hundreds of hymms are attiributed to indra.

That might be because Indra has got the result of his deeds. Paap ke fal ke Baad paap samapt ho jata hai. Right sir?

And in one of Sutta, Gautam Buddha indeed pay homage to Kashyapa Rishi, said Kashyapa was one the Rishi who knew Original Vedas. Still thinking whether we have authentic Vedas or not. 😓

dont make judgements based on random posts.

the person who has made post is from TN where the shukla yajurveda is minimal

and puranas themselves praise vedas and consider them subordinate to vedas

Place doesn't matter today. He might have learnt from online sources or books. He has provided reference, we should accept him.

8:59 AM

then where is oral tradition which he is claiming about ...

I'm not getting you sir.

you will only understand when you get the concept how vedas are transmitted orally .

some branches of veda is not avaialble in south india... hence its not possible to pracitally learn there via oral tradition.

But can't we authenticate written hymns ?

The Brahmanas of the Vedas were passed down in the most rigorous fashion, so the chance of an interpolation in the Shatapatha Brahmana is vanishingly small.

he says

Why no chances of interpolation in oral transmission? Can't any learnt person wrongly transmit orally ?😓😢

9:04 AM

that is the claim of your scholar who has made 2nd answer :)

😱

Then I also can't confirm whether Indra had wrong deeds or not.

If hymns can be interpolated.

there is no need to be a rocket scientist to know it ..

😯

rama's guru was vashistha and vishwamitra who themselves were ardent vedic followers and rishis .
rama had leared mantras and vedas under him.. only to realize that vedic gods were criminals ?

@Seeker Vedas give blueprint of Indra while Puranas mention specific Indra.

9:08 AM

same is with krishna he had stayed in the gurukula to learn shastra.

@RakeshJoshi Puranas don't humiliate Vedic Gods. Please understand context. Puranas also show Shiva and Vishnu in bad light sometimes. But there's reason for every story. Please Read puranas. Don't read other opinions. Read all Puranas or atleast one purana and analyze. Vishnu also defiled Vrinda or Tulasi. Is Vishnu bad person? Why Padma Purana, a Vishnava purana says that?

But I'm saying Indra might have been forgiven long before Lord Rama paying homage to him. Forgiven as he got result of his sins.

But that hymn seems to point that Indra exclusively.

@TheDestroyer

@TheDestroyer good assumption that people are talking here about sastra without knowing head or tail

@Seeker Vedas also talk about Indra Ahalya story.

@RakeshJoshi Not assumption. It's true. if you have read Puranas properly, then you would understand stories.

Yes. @TheDestroyer that's what I mean.

9:14 AM

then i can also make such claims about you .. but i m not in a mood of mud throwing now.

@TheDestroyer which gurukula have you read puranas ?

@RakeshJoshi As i said you, you should see context of Mantra. Vedas say Indra is Supreme, Rudra is Supreme and Narayana is Supreme. We should know where mantra is. Samhita or Brahman or Aranyaka. Don't simply see vedic sentences or mantras. See context.

@RakeshJoshi For Puranas, i don't need to go to gurukula. Puranas have stories and some may have alleagorical meanings. But again in Gurukula, views of Guru are also imposed on his Shishyas. Who alone can give objective views?

@TheDestroyer then what you are talking ? "read puranas correctly" means ? same way all have read. you talk as if you have learned it under some enlightened man.

I dont see any logic in creating disgusting stories of gods to EXPLAIN about them... what is need to portray negatively . that too a deity/god !!

@RakeshJoshi I suggest you to read all Puranas atleast partially and decide. Your opinion that they only praise Shiva and Vishnu but humiliate Devas is not correct. There are Saura Puranas which praise Surya. Ekam Sat Vipra Bahuda vadanti. Also, Some puranas praise Agni.

i am repating . praising is not wrong but i have issue with demaning stories be it about indra or vishnu or any god ... they are unwarranted.

@RakeshJoshi Why do you just say one story of Indra? Why not stories of Shiva and Vishnu? Shiva beheaded his own son? Vishnu defiled Vrinda. But every story in Purana has specific reason. Prejudices on Vedanta is making you to think like that. Puranas are not sectarian. People see them like that. Blame people not Puranas. By their logic, i can even say Vedas are sectarian. But it only depends on interpretation.

@RakeshJoshi Puranas are expansions of Vedas.

They are history books.

9:25 AM

@TheDestroyer why are you bringing vedanta here? there is no connection of vedanta and purana. I CONDEMN if any story of any god is shwon in a bad character or a criminal. for shiva's story he was not shown as a rapist or coward.

secondly the vedic view of indra IS OPPOSITE to puranic view of VEDIC GODS hence puranas are NOT expansion of vedas but they mainly talk of puranic deities.

thidly PURANAS are NOT itihasa because Ramayana and MBH are given the category of itihasa. puranas is called MYTHOLOGY.

@RakeshJoshi If puranas are like that, why the great Sage Vyasa wrote them in 1st place?

many scholars are of opinion that puranas IS NOT WRITTEN BY A SINGLE PERSON.

@RakeshJoshi See meaning of Purana. Purana means history or yore.

Yes. puranas are interpolated. But that doesn't mean we can reject entire puranas.

why would vyasa say that

some of my puranas are tamasika and it will lead you to hell ?

its like saying .. i have writeen a big book but please dont read last 4 chapters... they are bad

if it was so then why was it written in the first place ?

@RakeshJoshi Puranas also provide stories of many temples. If Puranas are not correct, what is the basis of divinity of many temples in India?

@RakeshJoshi Again.Tamasika Purana concept is just myth. It can refuted with simple logic. See, we should separate interpolations and genuine content.

9:29 AM

@TheDestroyer word purana means old ... it talks of old times.. but its not taken as history by anyone. talking of olden times and history is different.

there are pancha tantra tales also which talk of old stories .. should it be taken as history then ?

@RakeshJoshi Ok. How temples are constructed? what is the basis? Why Gods in temples are showing powers? Many temples are Swayambhu. None did Prana Pratishta.

agama . is to be considered for temples

tmples are constructed as per agama not as per puranas.

then there are sthala puranas which talk about tales of that place... talk of grama devata etc.

@Tezz Why many people are visiting Tirupati Venkteswara and Kasi Vishwanta if Puranas are not true. Why every hindu atleast visits Kasi once in their life? All temples are constructed as per Agamas. But what makes Kasi and tirupati special?

@RakeshJoshi Stahla puranas also take some of their content from puranas.

Even "Sthala Purana" has word "Purana".

marketing makes them famous... people dont go by reading puranas but by hearing miracle stories.

now sai baba temple is 2nd most famous and rich .. which purana talk of it ?

@RakeshJoshi This may be true now but not in Ancient times. Kasi Khanda of Skanda Purana talks extensively about Kasi. So, Kasi is famous since many centuries.

9:36 AM

@RakeshJoshi Sir, All jyotirlinga or teerths are just marketing then ?😱

not marketig but why some lingas are more famous than others ? whereas puranas talk of all ?

@RakeshJoshi It was very recent. Poeple believe Pratyaksha Pramana here.

@RakeshJoshi No. They talk of all. But All Shaiva Purana unanimously praise Kasi Linga more.

@TheDestroyer i heard that venkatesha mahatmaya talks that the whole saptagiri was brought to earth by garuda. from vaikuntha |?

temple's fame has nothing to do with purnas. its just mass following and miracles.

@RakeshJoshi You are applying rationality to Puranas. He didn't bring saptagiri. Garuda brings only Venkatadri.

Sir @RakeshJoshi, and if MB is history then purans also have to be history because MB, Ramayana & Puranas are connected.

9:39 AM

where is that venkatadri ?

@RakeshJoshi Where Venkateswara Swami is located. He is called Venkata + Eswara because he is lord of Venkata Hill. venkata is named as such because he cuts sins.

take a rock and send to lab for carbon dating we will come to know from which loka it has come from.

😯😯

@RakeshJoshi See then you shouldn't even believe venkateswara. He also came from Vaikunta. Why logic for stones only not for God.

no i believe in lord but its not necessary to believe all the stories blindly . we have to use logic also

9:41 AM

@RakeshJoshi Do you really think carbon dating is accurate?

@RakeshJoshi Yeah. How Trailinga Swami lived for 200 years?

many times temples themselves create stories in vested interest.

@RakeshJoshi Don't generalize.

temple is more of a busioness off late

Trailanga Swami (also Tailang Swami, Telang Swami) (reportedly 1607 – 1887) was a Hindu yogi and mystic famed for his spiritual powers who lived in Varanasi, India. He is regarded as a legendary figure in Bengal, with stories told of his yogic powers and longevity. According to some accounts, Trailanga Swami lived to be 280 years old, residing at Varanasi between 1737-1887. He is regarded by devotees as an incarnation of Shiva. Ramakrishna referred to him as "The walking Shiva of Varanasi". == Early life == He was born in Kumbilapuram (now known as Kumili of Puspatirega Tehisil) at Vizianagaram...

did i say that he lived 200 years ? why r u asking me ? :)

9:43 AM

@RakeshJoshi He did Yoga like you. He lived for 200 years. How was it possible? No. With logic (derived from western Science), how could he live for 200 years?

but 150- 200 years could be beleiable to some extent but puranas talk of 10 thousand years life span which is not logical

@RakeshJoshi That's true. But that doesn't mean all Stories are false.

then they are semi-true / semi-false ?

your own acharyas have kept puranas are 3rd or 4th level reference and not equal to vedas. then why people are trying to portray them as good as vedas i dont understand .

@RakeshJoshi 200 years possible recently. Why not it could be possible when Santana Sharma was at peak or when Yoga was at peak? What is basis for your rationality? Few years ago, we didn't believe differences in time among Humans and Devas. But after time dialation, we believed our stories. So, Science is yet to find many things. Don't judge our puranas or Vedas by current developing Science.

ohh

in vedic astro also average life span is of 120 yrs not 1000 years

9:48 AM

@RakeshJoshi Again Generalizing. Only few fanatics see like that. Not all. Every Hindu gives Vedas first place to Puranas and Agamas.

further vedas have verses which glorify 100 years of age . in aashirvada also 100 years age is used

that shows 100 yrs age was considere d good in vedic era

@RakeshJoshi The one with Physical body or Annamaya Kosha can live for 120 years.

we are talking physical body only.

@RakeshJoshi "Shatamaanam Bhavati" is used. But my age is 23 now and if anyone blesses me that, shall i live 123 years? Context is different.

vedas is first place and if puranas expand or explain vedas then it should be equal na... hence it shows something is in puranas which is not AS GOOD AS vdas

blessing is a wish .. may you live long , may you live 100 yrs

9:51 AM

@RakeshJoshi What Vedic Era? Why you give names of western historians?

but if i say may you live 40 years then it wont make any sense .

@RakeshJoshi Yes. vedas are superior. Yes. Puranas are not equal to Vedas obviously. But that doesn't mean we should reject them or they are factually not correct.

this language is western this technology is western .. many thigs we use is western then why such hatred for westerneers

@RakeshJoshi Sir, Gautam Buddha said A human being can live UpTo 84,000 years.

@RakeshJoshi That's unfortunate thing India is facing now.

9:54 AM

acharyas believe that if shruti and puranas contradict vedas then vedas should be upheld. now whycg such situation should arise? because if puranas explain vedas then there should not be scope for contradiction.

hence it is clear that achharyas have NOTICED CONTRADICTIONS between purana and vedas and hence such rule.

i do not have any prejudice for western or eastern . vasudhaiva kutumbakam.

@RakeshJoshi That's due to improper interpretations and later interpolations. None of us read/listened original versions of Puranas just after Vyasa narrated them.

Buddha was very rational yet he said the things you won't believe. He said in future during the time of Matreyi (future Buddha) people would live UpTo 84,000 years.

@RakeshJoshi You should know how westerns misinterpreted our Scriptures. They created fake Aryan Invasion theory.

yes but wrong things are done by indians too.. so its everywherre

@Seeker buddhism is the biggest paradox today... buddha never believed any god or anything or even idol worship .. but now there are big monastries of buddha and big statue of buddha and moorti pooja is in full flash :D

Purans talk about Swargas, lokas & especially the great Mount Sumeru. Buddha too said about these things.

9:57 AM

@RakeshJoshi Yes. Invasions are our karma. We interpolated our scriptures and many were fighting. So, Lord sent Muslims and cut sacred threads of some many arrogant people. Karma.

Moorti Pooja. 😱

@RakeshJoshi Please. We worship Lord inside idol not only idol. THERES A BIG DIFFERENCE.

i heard that in ceylone there is a big tooth in a monastry which is believed that of buddhas. but it is so big and by no means it looks like that of a hyuman.

@TheDestroyer i m not talking about YOU but oF BUDHISTS

god sent invaders for destroying somanatha and vishwanatha ???

@RakeshJoshi ok. Idol worship without Prana pratishta is of no use except for Swyambhu?

@RakeshJoshi It's Shiva's own will.

means ?

10:01 AM

@RakeshJoshi To correct us and unite us. Do you expect Hindus to be united without Muslims and christians? Do you know Shiva and Vishnu wars?

North it was muslims and south Christians. Master plan by Lord to unite us.

i dont think there will be any unity in the near future

@Seeker moorti pooja ma maza aata hai ?

@RakeshJoshi We may have philosphical differences. But we are not like sunni., Shia and wahabhi sects.

ok

My worship is of a very strange kind. In this Ganga water is not required. No special utensils are necessary.Even flowers are redundant.

@RakeshJoshi There's a proverb in telugu, which says "without command of Shiva, even an ant won't bite/move". Same for invaders

i know only one telugu proverb. Sankata samaye venkata ramana

10:05 AM

@RakeshJoshi I neither have attachments or aversions to idol worship but I am believing in Devotion to Sadhna rather than God nowadays.

butyou have attachments with semen right .. to preserve it :) @Seeker as you mentioned in the thread

😂😂😯😯😯

Yes.

indriya raag.

Very Important.

@Seeker Poeple of other religions are trying to spread rumors on Idol Worship. But we do Prana Pratishta and invoke Lord into it. It depends on proper Mantra intonantion. You can feel some positive energies in some idols. So, there's no wrong in proper idol worship if it is done per agamas,

10:08 AM

@TheDestroyer Yes. I support idol worshipping. But limiting our Sadhna or God to only idols should be discouraged.

@Seeker Yes. We have many paths. But that's simple Bhakti way for many busy people or people with limited knowledge of Sastras.

that quote was from lahiri mahasaya

@RakeshJoshi which quote?

My worship is of a very strange kind. In this Ganga water is not required. No special utensils are necessary.Even flowers are redundant.

@RakeshJoshi we should oppose too much ritualism not rituals. Yes. again it depends on pure devoton.

10:11 AM

Agree @TheDestroyer & @RakeshJoshi sir

i m not against idol worship

@RakeshJoshi many stories in puranas are leela of lord. One such leela is invasions.

but one thing i noticed most of higher masters were doing internal worship and rarely any idol worship or pilgrimage.

@TheDestroyer- Previousrly there was one purana only , the shlokas were in cores , so veda-vyasa realised that it's hard to grasp all the content ,then he divided that single purana into 18 Once.

पुराणमेकमेवासीदस्मिन्कल्पान्तरे नृप।
त्रिवर्गसाधनं पुण्यं शतकोटिप्रविस्तरम।।

@SwiftPushkar which scripture mentions this verse... ?..

10:30 AM

@Tezz - Can you please check whether the below verse is in Brihadaryanka UP.

अस्य महतो भूतस्य नि:श्वसितर्मेतद् यद् ऋग्वेदो यजुर्वेद:।
सामवेदोsथर्वंगिरस: इतिहास:पुराणं विद्या उपनिषद:॥

BU -2-4-11

@SwiftPushkar yes, it's same:

In English it is:

@Tezz Dont know exactly , may be from Puranas itself😊

II-iv-10: As from a fire kindled with wet faggot diverse kinds of smoke issue, even so, my dear, the Rig-Veda, Yajur-Veda, Sama-Veda,
Atharvangirasa, Itihasa, Purana, Vidya, Upanishads, pithy verses, aphorisms, elucidations and explanations are (like) the breath of this infinite Reality. They are like the breath of this (Supreme Self).

@Tezz haha yes ,ok , so in Upanishadas we alo find mentioning of puranas and upanishadas say itihas and puran are pancham veda😊👍👍👍 Thanks आभार 🍫🍬

@SwiftPushkar Not only in Upanishads... in the Atharvaveda Samhita also the word Itihasa Purana occur...

10:37 AM

@Tezz - oh ,ok ... that's surprising 👍

@Tezz - I have that Athervaveda verse with me 😊

@SwiftPushkar Oh ok... great...

@SwiftPushkar Puranas with crores of verses are present in Deva Loka.

user image

@Tezz - see ऋच: ...11-7-24

@TheDestroyer yes😊👍👍👍

@SwiftPushkar which scripture is this... ?..

@Tezz- Athrvaveda verse abt.puranas⬆

10:47 AM

@SwiftPushkar Hmm.. nice..

All things that breathe the breath of life, all creatures that have
eyes to see,
All the celestial Gods whose home is heaven sprang from the
Residue.
Verses, and Songs, and magic hymns, Purāna, sacrificial text.
All the celestial Gods whose home is heaven sprang from the
Residue.

sacred-texts.com/hin/av/av11007.htm

@Tezz - Trayi vidya from vedas and suryopasana from puranas is same , so it seems that , puranic literature is converted form of knowladge of vedas itself .As vedic deities changed to puranic once ,I think😊

@Tezz oh ,Nice find , do you have sanskrit shloka of that tranlation , if u find ,pls.do give me ,😊👍👍👍

@SwiftPushkar it is the same verse you have written...

@Tezz - ohh , ok 😀🙏 U R so🆒👈

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Feb '1717

Vedanta and Philosophy

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