Vedanta and Philosophy

6:00 PM

@RakeshJoshi any one can study vedas if he is pure at heart. If a person is really pure internally, he is not Sudra. But @SreeCharan 's example is case of Sudra. What's use of studying veda in those cases?

Sree Charan

You will find tons of them in Hyderabad and telugu states. They themselves create wrong interpretations. xD.

Rakesh Joshi

@TheDestroyer are you supporting my statement or opposing ? on shudra?

The Destroyer

@SreeCharan Puranas predicted correctly. Sudras learn vedas in kali Yuga. Your above statements support it.

@RakeshJoshi supporting. i suport guna based varna.

Rakesh Joshi

thanks

Sree Charan

@RakeshJoshi If everything is open for all, the value of it will be lost. Knowledge should be given to those who really deserve it. By initiation into vedas, non-brahmin must become a brahmin (by guna). But many are not ready to renunciate their previous varna. They still want to lead a rajasic and tamasic life.

Rakesh Joshi

6:05 PM

@SreeCharan let them learn vedas ...

for thousand of years what brahmins did to veda?

most of the shakhas have been lost.
neither they are studyig nor they are letting others to study.
now in most of gurukuls even non brahmins are not allowed. even though vysya an kshatriya can become dwija .

they want to have monopoly in their hands hence they are not letting others learn

in my thread i have showed how women were allowed in the past and from some centuries they have been barred.

The Destroyer

But in most of cases, Brahmanas are gurus. One must treat their guru as parabrahma.

Rakesh Joshi

did they check your gunas? just by being born in some family you got the thread. what is your contribution then ?

Sree Charan

@RakeshJoshi I also don't agree that vedas can be learnt without a guru.

The Destroyer

@RakeshJoshi most of the Brahmins are satva innately.

You can test on your brahmin friends given they don't eat non veg.

Rakesh Joshi

but who is brahmin that is question. just by birth its so

even by karmas most brahmins are doing jobs related to shudras

The Destroyer

6:07 PM

@RakeshJoshi i think in previous yugas, birth based varna and guna vased matched. But i think it got corrupted in kali Yuga.

Sree Charan

@RakeshJoshi By "Knowledge should be given to those who really deserve it.", I meant the people not only brahmin, kshatriya etc.,

Rakesh Joshi

that is what i m asking you. @SreeCharan those who are getting upanayanam today does they all deserve ? 90% of them not at all interested in religion or vedic study nor they intend to go gurukula

The Destroyer

So, we must consider guna more over birth bit at same time we must not neglect Brahmins by birth if they are realky Satvic

Rakesh Joshi

@TheDestroyer yuga thing is a misconeption . in all the yuga there were the good and bad people.

for example duryodhana and many others showed many tamasic traits throughtout the life since childhood yet they remained kshatriyas

no one considered them as shudras.

there is no way to mesuare such things . its almost impossile

The Destroyer

@RakeshJoshi yes. As they were Rakshas born in human form.

Sree Charan

6:11 PM

@RakeshJoshi People not interested in religion do not wear thread even if they are brahmins by birth. You are talking about gurukulas. XD

Rakesh Joshi

further Vidur showed brahmanical trait yet considered as shudra.

The Destroyer

@RakeshJoshi he was only born to Sudra woman. But he was brahmin by guna.

Rakesh Joshi

so those who are interested in religion should be given thread and initiated in the shastra

The Destroyer

@RakeshJoshi given they are not tamasic.

Sree Charan

@TheDestroyer Yes. They followed karma based classification also.

Rakesh Joshi

6:13 PM

yes but no one considered him brahmins mostly ..

in same way technically pandu and bros were born of brahmins semen

@TheDestroyer only those who has spiritual awakening will strive for knowledge. the jijnasa for vedas and shastra makes him right candidate for initiation. hence such people should not be rejected.

The Destroyer

@SreeCharan karma and guna are in accordance mostly. It only depends on our interpretation.

@RakeshJoshi yes. Even @SreeCharan says the same.

Sree Charan

@TheDestroyer By Karma I meant occupation.

Rakesh Joshi

@TheDestroyer if you say that someone is born in a particular famly will have the similar qualities then its not true

i have seen dozens of such cases in my life itself. close relatives and firends

Sree Charan

@RakeshJoshi But such people are rare.

The Destroyer

@RakeshJoshi innately they aquire them. But i can't guarantee in later stages of life.

Rakesh Joshi

6:16 PM

that is why veda prachara should be done

brahmins are to be blamed for such sorry situation now ..
they kept on rejecting others from vedas

had they allowed them then more vedic cuture will be seen today

Sree Charan

@TheDestroyer Some get arrogant due to knowledge of vedas.

The Destroyer

@RakeshJoshi how dynasties worked with hereditary in olden days if King's son didn't aquire rajas guna?

Rakesh Joshi

nextly i want to say that rishis got the vedic revelations at an exalted state of being it was not a dream etc. they were fully aware and awake.
hence when they say about creation or jagat it should be taken as mithya.

@TheDestroyer i just gave you example of duryodhana
moreover 3 sons (pandu, dhritarastra etc too were technically brahmin by semen)

but raised as kshatriya

The Destroyer

@RakeshJoshi A brahmana can become kshatriya too for establishing Dharma like parasurama. It can be called as satvic killing.

Sree Charan

@RakeshJoshi But from when did the other dwijas stopped learning vedas? It should be applied to all the dwijas not only brahmins.

Rakesh Joshi

6:21 PM

i believe that many stories related to parashurama were interpolations

@SreeCharan they stopped learning when people like YOU started running the gurukulas. :) mumbai sankara mutt branch application form has clear words "HE MUST BE A MALE AND BRAHMIN FAMILY" then who is to blame

Sree Charan

@RakeshJoshi Did duryodhana have jealousy from childhood? What made him bad?

Rakesh Joshi

i didnt see many positive qualities in duryodhana .. But might be he had good qualtiies (even osama bin would have some good) as balarama favored him more :)

Sree Charan

@RakeshJoshi ":)" DOESN'T MAKE A STATEMENT POLITE.

Rakesh Joshi

its not polite i mean it .

its sad thing

The Destroyer

@RakeshJoshi kalki will be brahmana too and he becomes kshatriya.

Sree Charan

6:25 PM

What do you mean people like me?

Rakesh Joshi

Brahmins started reservation in temples and purohityam then kshatriyas started in royal areas

now shudras given reservation from governemnt then all are feeling bad .

but no one is seeing the cause why such thing came into existence ?

people who beleive that vedas is not for all . its for elite class of people etc etc those kind of people.

The Destroyer

Bye GN| will discuss tomorrow.

Rakesh Joshi

@TheDestroyer have u created another room

The Destroyer

@RakeshJoshi i think i accidentally created it

I am on mobile

Rakesh Joshi

ok gn

The Destroyer

6:31 PM